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Edited 2 months, 5 days ago

Poll: Spider-Man Battle of the Week VOTING: Doctor Octopus vs. Kraven the Hunter (252 votes)

Doctor Octopus 42%
Kraven the Hunter 52%
Too close to call 6%

Doctor Octopus and Kraven the Hunter are iconic Spider-Man villains. However, what helps them stand apart from so many of their evil peers is the fact both have bested the web-slinger and then posed as the hero. But who will be victorious when they clash against one another? Is Otto Octavius' intellect and multiple titanium arms too much to overcome or will Sergei Kravinoff's physicals, skill and weaponry allow him to take the win?

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter (aka no prep for either).
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 60 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, the sewer, etc.
  • Both characters have their standard gear.
  • As stated above, Otto has his titanium arms. This is before his condition went downhill and he required that special suit.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too.
  • Hey, you know what would be really cool? Treating everyone else in the debate with respect. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. Seriously, this is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining. Just saying.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to be selected as the Viner Argument of the Week. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • A Viner Argument for both characters (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future "Spider-Man Battle of the Week" suggestions in the comments below or via Twitter! Want to continue celebrating Spidey? He'll be the topic of tomorrow's 'Question of the Week' and we encourage you to make Spider-Man threads in the forums!

#1 Posted by Wyldsong (5134 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks good, need to think on this=)

#2 Posted by Wolverine08 (38583 posts) - - Show Bio

More battles for these Spider nut huggers!

#3 Posted by Wolverine08 (38583 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Edited by i_like_swords (13037 posts) - - Show Bio

Kraven

#5 Posted by dondave (34423 posts) - - Show Bio

Its still Spider-Man month?

#6 Posted by Wolverine08 (38583 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Its still Spider-Man month?

Yeah.

#7 Posted by k4tzm4n (36405 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

Looks good, need to think on this=)

Thanks!

More battles for these Spider nut huggers!

Pshhhh. So jelly. Maybe you should have told Wolverine fanpages about the voting instead of just QQing about it :P

Kraven

Por que?

@dondave said:

Its still Spider-Man month?

Yup. Voting for the next character of the month will begin next week, though!

Staff
#8 Posted by Wolverine08 (38583 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (1431 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Blame it conerlvine he's united wolves chances for possibly the next decade until people forgot this stupid writing

#10 Posted by PunyParker (8950 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Its still Spider-Man month?

May is Spider-Month.
Today is May 19.

Do the math.

#11 Edited by i_like_swords (13037 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: I feel like Kraven has the versatility, skill and resiliency to close the gap and end the fight, although it shouldn't be easy.

#12 Posted by dondave (34423 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (32682 posts) - - Show Bio

Kraven makes a living hunting octopi

#14 Posted by PunyParker (8950 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Posted by 8008S (398 posts) - - Show Bio

Smarts: Ock is technically smarter, but I feel he'd probably underestimate Kraven. Kraven has got the tactics to approach him.

Strength/speed: Ock for strength, Kraven for speed, arguably: the tentacles might be as fast as Kraven, but Kraven's actual physical speed is greater than Ock's.

Durability: Kraven, no doubt. Ock's just a regular guy behind the arms, and in poorer condition than Sergei. While Otto can block most attacks, one lucky poison dart reaching his body could put him down. Meanwhile, Kraven can shrug off ridiculously strong attacks as of late.

All in all I'd give it to Kraven in 6/10 rounds.

#16 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (297 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah! the two superior spider-men

#17 Posted by k4tzm4n (36405 posts) - - Show Bio
Staff
#18 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

im thinking Kraven

#19 Posted by cmaprice (809 posts) - - Show Bio

Better character? Otto.
Who would win? Kraven.

#20 Posted by GraniteSoldier (6963 posts) - - Show Bio

This is pretty awesome. Every spider-month battle has been a good matchup.

#21 Posted by dagmar_merrill (6624 posts) - - Show Bio

Kraven.

@cmaprice said:

Better character? Otto.

Who would win? Kraven.

How?

Online
#22 Posted by VeganDiet (978 posts) - - Show Bio

Doctor Octopus should absolutely maul Kraven. He doesn't have the speed to dodge the arms for long, and Ock's arms are strong enough to put the kibosh on him in a few hits. They're also fast enough that they should be able to deflect any of Kraven's projectiles.

#23 Posted by highaccuser (5534 posts) - - Show Bio

I say kraven, but I'm not an authority on Ockham or anything. I don't really know what he can do.

#24 Posted by tparks (4345 posts) - - Show Bio

Doc Ock becomes Superior Kraven.

#25 Posted by JohnnyConstantine (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Doctor Octopus. Kraven may a hunter but he is just a man. Even with his potions enhancing his reflexes and all around abilities he cannot hold a candle to Doctor Octopus and his 4 tentacles, that not only can spot him for Otto, but also give him superior reach and are highly resistant to any of Kravens attacks. Once Otto gets his tentacles on him Kraven is done for, end of story. None of that even takes into account Otto's superior intellect and strategy. He wasn't called the Master Planner for nothing!

#26 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

Kraven.

#27 Posted by Juiceboks (7835 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people need to realize how strong Otto's tentacles are. If they can hold Spider-Man then Kraven's not breaking out of them. Now..if Kravinoff gives Otto the chance to grab him is another thing entirely. They both have worked with each other and know their tendencies and strengths. I personally see Kraven keeping his distance, goading him into a trap and taking him out from afar when Otto's not aware. Kraven's got the advantage of range and hunting skills..while Otto, as smart as he is, isn't as savvy as Kraven in this manner of combat.

#28 Posted by snarkybits (322 posts) - - Show Bio

Kraven(The OG Superior Spider-Man) takes it with his speed, agility, experience, and laser nipples.

#30 Posted by Krypton-115 (326 posts) - - Show Bio

Oof, tough one. Both villains can claim that they "killed" Spider-Man, but in the end Kraven will be victorious.

#31 Posted by TheBlackHood (292 posts) - - Show Bio

This may be a bad type of reasoning, but for me I looked at who Kraven has fought, both in continuity and on comicvine for my decision. In the comics, Kraven has bested Spider-man and Punisher; while on Comicvine the opinion was that he would best Batman. With victories over those three I don't see how he would be unable to defeat Octavius.

#32 Edited by snarkybits (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@theblackhood: not bad reasoning, imo...bad reasoning would be "Kraven, because he's HAWT and Doc Ock is UGGO!"

You just have to be careful when using the "A beat B argument" because Doc Ock once beat the Hulk, for some reason.

#33 Posted by TheBlackHood (292 posts) - - Show Bio

@theblackhood: not bad reasoning, imo...bad reasoning would be "Kraven, because he's HAWT and Doc Ock is UGGO!"

You just have to be careful when using the "A beat B argument" because Doc Ock once beat the Hulk, for some reason.

I tend to avoid ever using ANY example that includes the Hulk. Hulk's powers are the most inconsistent of pretty much an comic character. When you have the Hulk immune to psychic attack because "he's so angry" you know a character is broken.

#34 Posted by leokearon (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

Otto has the advantage his tentacles could easily grab Kraven and squeeze him until Kraven passes out. Kraven is Strong but he isn't as strong as Spidey who barely could break free when grabbed. Also his tentacles could easily deflect and long range attack from Kraven.

#35 Posted by k4tzm4n (36405 posts) - - Show Bio

This may be a bad type of reasoning, but for me I looked at who Kraven has fought, both in continuity and on comicvine for my decision. In the comics, Kraven has bested Spider-man and Punisher; while on Comicvine the opinion was that he would best Batman. With victories over those three I don't see how he would be unable to defeat Octavius.

Sergei Kravinoff never faced Punisher. His son, Alyosha, did. Also, to be fair, Sergei usually requires some kind of plot device to get the edge over Spider-Man.

Staff
#36 Edited by Lvenger (18303 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll wait for some more experienced street level debaters to state their views but for now, I'm leaning towards Kraven based on his skill and ruthlessness.

#37 Posted by TheBlackHood (292 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@theblackhood said:

This may be a bad type of reasoning, but for me I looked at who Kraven has fought, both in continuity and on comicvine for my decision. In the comics, Kraven has bested Spider-man and Punisher; while on Comicvine the opinion was that he would best Batman. With victories over those three I don't see how he would be unable to defeat Octavius.

Sergei Kravinoff never faced Punisher. His son, Alyosha, did. Also, to be fair, Sergei usually requires some kind of plot device to get the edge over Spider-Man.

Ah good to know. I didn't realize it was different Kraven that had faced Punisher. I still give it to Kraven because I think he is more versatile than Doc Ock and also, nipple lasers.

#38 Posted by k4tzm4n (36405 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@theblackhood said:

This may be a bad type of reasoning, but for me I looked at who Kraven has fought, both in continuity and on comicvine for my decision. In the comics, Kraven has bested Spider-man and Punisher; while on Comicvine the opinion was that he would best Batman. With victories over those three I don't see how he would be unable to defeat Octavius.

Sergei Kravinoff never faced Punisher. His son, Alyosha, did. Also, to be fair, Sergei usually requires some kind of plot device to get the edge over Spider-Man.

Ah good to know. I didn't realize it was different Kraven that had faced Punisher. I still give it to Kraven because I think he is more versatile than Doc Ock and also, nipple lasers.

Yup, and in case you're curious, it was also Alyosha that had the kitchen fight with Black Panther. Also: lol.

Staff
#39 Edited by jashro44 (19594 posts) - - Show Bio

I might go into more detail later but I'm leaning towards Otto. All though here are some scans of him dealing with range attacks if anyone wants them:

This is Peter in Dock Ock's body so its probably worth noting he's less experienced. Not to mention he might be having problems focusing since Otto's body is dying.

More Peter in Dock Ocks dying body dodging bullets in the avengers defence room (He also deflects a stray bullet if you look closely on the second scan):

#40 Posted by vandinejd_1991 (258 posts) - - Show Bio

All Kraven would have to do is grab two of Ock's arms and rip them from his spine. That would be extremely painful but effective.

#41 Posted by jashro44 (19594 posts) - - Show Bio

All Kraven would have to do is grab two of Ock's arms and rip them from his spine. That would be extremely painful but effective.

Kraven is not strong enough to do that. Each one of Otto's arms can lift 3 tons (so all at once he can lift 12 tons) whereas Kraven can only lift 2 tons over all.

#42 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Jashro just put on a pretty good show of Doc Ock's capabilities. Making me lean towards him over Mr. Laser Nipples. Any reason why Leaven takes this?

#43 Posted by G_leno (918 posts) - - Show Bio

@@ I gave my vote to Doc Ock, but I do feel it is an incredibly difficult fight. The advantages of both of them would be very difficult to bring in to play against each other.

I know that Kraven is physically superior to Otto, and it cannot be denied that Otto is the more intelligent. I think the lack of prep time damages Otto's chances, but not enough to make him lose the majority of fights.

Strength: Goes to Otto. Even with his potions, Kraven has not shown his strength to be more than that of Otto's tentacles. If Otto's tentacles are stronger than Kraven, AND Otto has 4 of them, I think its safe to say Otto takes this.

Intelligence: Otto obviously. I don't think anyone would argue this point.

Durability: This is a tough one, because Otto's tentacles are obviously very hard to damage, but of their physical bodies, Kraven is the tougher of the two. I give this to Kraven as he is more durable.

Speed/Agility: Kraven is extremely agile, as has been shown in his fights with the very agile Spiderman. Otto's Mech limbs move at the speed of thought so are very quick to respond to Otto, but again, his body lets him down on this front as the old man attached to the tentacles is just that, an old man. I give this to Kraven for his lack of a down side on this point.

The above points would make it a tie but I believe that Otto has another advantage that swings the fight in his favour. Kraven is the hunter, he goes out equipped to tackle who/whatever he is hunting. this being a random encounter means that he will not be properly equipped for this fight, wheras Otto always has his tentacles and knows how to get the best results from them. I give this to Otto 6/10.

#44 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

kraven. he can only be killed by spider-man or kaine. so he can just keep coming at ock over and over again until ock gets tired.

#45 Posted by jashro44 (19594 posts) - - Show Bio

kraven. he can only be killed by spider-man or kaine. so he can just keep coming at ock over and over again until ock gets tired.

He doesn't have to kill Kraven. He can just pick Kraven up by individual limbs and restrain him. Or do something similar. Kravens main advantage is range which I think is something Otto has shown he can deal with.

#46 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4887 posts) - - Show Bio

kraven. he can only be killed by spider-man or kaine. so he can just keep coming at ock over and over again until ock gets tired.

Kraven still has that healing factor from after Grim Hunt correct?

#47 Posted by butters911 (251 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigtewell:

He can be knocked out, which counts as a loss.

#48 Posted by AmazingWebHead (1610 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't even pick this one. Way, WAY too close.

#49 Edited by jashro44 (19594 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to give this to doctor octopus.

Strength: I think this is pretty straight forward. Each one of Otto's arms can lift 3 tons whereas Kraven as a whole is a 2 tonner according to hand books. Likewise if you look at feats Otto has been at times able to restrain Peter whereas the same can't be said for Kraven. Not really much to say here besides Otto has the clear advantage.

Speed: This is something trickier to say. Kraven has been able to fight agent venom at speeds faster than the eye can track, and he was giving Kaine problems with his speed. However as I've shown in my scans Otto has sufficient enough reflexes to block and deflect bullets along with other range attacks (like electros lightning, demo goblins hell fire blasts, hawkeyes arrows, etc). Also I imagine that the tentacles would give Kaine problems if they fought considering its given peter some problems in the past. I'm going to go ahead and give the advantage here to dock ock simply because I can't think of too many avoidance feats for Kraven. He dodged storms lightning, bullets from deadpool, and bullets in kravens last hunt however he isn't spider-man like agile/acrobatic so I think dock ocks tentacles will catch him eventually.

Durability: Ottos arms here are titanium and I don't think Kraven is strong enough to break titanium so Ottos arms should be fine. With that said Otto is still human so if Kraven does bypass the arms than Otto is basically finished. He has taken punches from spider-man (who's holding back obviously) and all though Kraven may not be as strong as Peter he can still probably kill an average human in one hit. Likewise Kraven uses weapons like knives, spears, etc. Meanwhile kraven has always been really durable with taking punches from spider-man as well (Peter at one point stated he hit kraven with the same punch he used to stagger the hulk in order to knock him out IIRC), and in addition to this kraven now has a healing factor. He's healed stabs to the heart from venom for example so its pretty good. Kraven has the edge here due to being super human.

Weapons: Kraven does have more weapons here and all though he does have range weapons I think Otto's arms are the better equipment. They've blocked attacks from someone who is probably a better marksman (hawkeye) and they have blocked faster projectiles as well. He's also caught a knife from punisher before so he can catch Kravens knives if Kraven decides to throw them. So I think if kraven tosses knives this will actually backfire on him considering it would give Otto a bladed weapon making it easier to incapacitate Kraven with. All though Kravens healing factor can allow him to tank knife slashes it probably has its limit. kraven does also have poison darts as well but Otto can block those as well I would say. Now if Kraven decides to use his knife in melee or his spear rather than throw them than he is still at a disadvantage. Ottos arms can't be blocked with a spear or a knife where as kravens knives and spears can be blocked by Otto's arms. Additionally Otto has more reach so a melee encounter would definitely go to dock ock without a doubt.

Intelligence: Something someone brought up earlier that I hadn't thought of originally was that they have worked together before and I think this is a really good point. Kraven is the type of guy that usually studies his prey before hunting them. He's studied spider-man and his moves (which does help him out in a fight), and he also watched Kaine for a while before engaging him. Whereas I would be pretty surprised if Otto didn't study the members of the sinister six and think of ways to beat them all encase one of them (or all) betrayed him. I think this information is more helpful to Dock Ock. Yea maybe Kraven could pick up on a striking pattern of Dock Ocks arms which may help to evade for a bit but I'm not sure if a pattern like that exists. I think this info is more helpful to Dock ock because he probably knows the areas where Kraven will be targeting with his range attacks and will probably be more focused on guarding those areas. Kraven likes to shoot darts in peoples necks (he's done it to black panther in hell's kitchen, and spider-man in kravens last hunt, etc) so Otto will probably be more protective of his neck. Kraven could also fall back on stealth which would be a good tactic but Otto has detected punisher while on the phone so I don't think that would get kraven a majority either.

Overall: I think Dock Ock takes this fight. Kravens best bet would be to keep his distance and shoot poison darts at dock ock or use some other range attack and stay out of Ottos reach. However I think Otto's arms are faster than Kraven (I know he can sprint 60MPH but still) and considering Otto's track record of deflecting projectiles I think he can swat most of Kravens out of the air. Admittedly I am not sure how long Otto can keep it up as he did state in secret wars that a range enemy put him at a disadvantage, but I think based on feats he can do it long enough to get in close. And once things get into melee kraven is at a huge disadvantage. Ottos arms are more powerful and they can't be blocked, there faster than Kraven, and they have more reach than any of kravens melee weapons I can think of. Knocking Kraven out may prove difficult but honestly restraining enemies is a common tactic of Doctor Octopus anyways, so Kravens durability isn't that big of an advantage in my eyes. I can see some ways for kraven to win but I think Otto takes the majority. He holds a lot of advantages and he has an answer for Kravens main advantages (range and durability). I can see how Kraven can win but I don't see that happening for a majority.

#50 Posted by TheImmortalBeaver (23 posts) - - Show Bio

In an unprepared fight, which this is, Otto wouldn't have a chance. He's a planner and a thinker. Kraven may also be big on traps and whatnot, but his speed and years of hunting experience give him an undeniable edge.