Posted by k4tzm4n (44234 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man has the honor of being our first character of the month! As we praise him with various articles throughout May, we'll also give the heroes and villains that are close to him some love by placing them in a weekly battle! Our first one is between two iconic Spidey characters: Green Goblin and Venom. It was tempting to use Eddie Brock's Venom, but that fight has been created and discussed plenty of times before, so why not use the latest host, Flash Thompson? The community has debated about this fight since Monday and more than 300 of you voted. After the dust has settled from this brawl, the Comic Vine crowd thinks Agent Venom will be the winner!

VENOM #122

The latest Venom received a respectable 58% of the votes. Norman Osborn earned 37%, and 5% believe this one can go either way, declaring it too close to call. Venom certainly took a fair lead in the poll, but there's no denying this would be a thoroughly entertaining fight to witness.

Norman's diabolical mind combined with his gear (and not to mention solid physicals) makes him an incredibly dangerous villain to encounter. His explosives and flight capabilities immediately means he's going to keep Venom on his toes and most definitely make him work hard for a potential victory. It's fairly unlikely Venom will get near Norman without being hit directly by a bomb or at least dangerously close to one. That said, Flash has a legitimately impressive history in dealing with these kinds of obstacles (e.g. Jack O'Lantern, has recovered after electric attacks). Thanks to his formidable physicals and endurance, it is fair to believe that Flash has what it takes to eventually close the distance or even disable Norman's big advantage: his glider. If that occurs, it's going to be a gigantic uphill struggle for Norman and truly is Flash's fight to lose. Not only is Flash stronger, but he's also more durable, has better speed feats under his belt and the symbiote grants him a wide array of offensive capabilities (tendrils, claws, "webbing," etc).

It'll be a savage fight and Flash will absolutely take a fair amount of damage throughout the battle, but based on his history of enduring this kind of damage and the advantages he brings to the table (e.g. strength, speed, durability, offensive options), it's understandable to believe that he could eventually overcome Green Goblin's advanced gear and twisted mentality. It won't be a walk in the park for either character, though.

Who took posture into account while thinking about this fight?

There were more than a few respectable posts in the back-and-forth debate taking place between Viners; however, one of them really stood out when reviewing the whole conversation. The Comic Viner GraniteSoldier made a massively detailed and commendable post explaining why he thinks Flash Thompson should eventually win this battle. This Viner not only covers the advantages each holds in the fight, but also offers relevant examples.

"So, it's not an easy choice because like I said previously this is my favorite hero and my favorite villain. However, after giving it thought, there's really one clear winner: Eugene "Flash" Thompson.

Let's get the obvious out of the way: Flash far exceeds Norman physically. His strength is far above Norman's, speed, agility (Norman has no noteworthy speed or agility feats that I can recall) and durability all well above his. Speaking of durability, it's important to note that while Venom has been hurt, he's never actually been KO'd by blunt force like punches, and he's taken blows from Carnage, Spider-Man, Toxin, Kaine, and even Red Hulk and none KO'd him. The guy seriously has some insane durability. Not to mention healing, he healed from a near-gutting by Toxin in a panel and proceeded to Bat-kick the big guy in the head. Norman has hit hard enough to hurt Spidey, but his wins, or near wins, on Peter always come with prep and gear in addition to fisticuffs. Physically, Norman is simply outclassed.

Norman has the gear edge, what with the incredibly durable Goblin suit and his plethora of pumpkin bombs, not to mention glider. However Flash has shredded tank armor, and torn apart the symbiote slayers who were made of an alien metal. He cut through Human Fly's bulletproof wings. I don't see this armor holding up. Flash's gear is simple: usually 2 pistols, a rifle, a handful of various grenades, and the symbiote serum. The serum is worthless here, so let's skip that. The Goblin suit may be bulletproof, but the glider can still take damage. If the glider goes down, Goblin loses most of his mobility. Flash can also turn the suit into various weapons, his favorite being the arm-sword and mace-fist. With these he's diced up enemies like Carnage and knocked around Blood Spider, the physical equivalent to Spider-Man. Norman's pumpkin bombs are nothing new. He's literally tanked dozens from Jack O'Lantern, with no apparent effect. Flash has tanked building level explosions and been fine. Hell he survived an exploding and burning space station to save Valkyrie. His suit filters poisons. He's webbed and tagged Jack on his glider, so there's nothing to suggest he can't do the same to Norman. Jack also had intel and equipment provided by Crime-Master specifically for Flash, so he was essentially prepped for Venom at all times. With Norman's standard gear, most of it is going to have little effect on Flash, especially with his durability and healing.

Now Norman is smarter, but there's no prep here. Most of the problems Norman causes is due to great prep and deception, not sheer combat ability or brute force. If he had prep, this could possibly be a different battle. But he doesn't. Not to mention Norman has various instances where his insanity gets the better of him and flushes his plans down the toilet. Flash is no slouch either when it comes to combat. He's no genius, but he's a US Army Ranger combat veteran (won the Medal of Honor) and then received additional training when he became the black ops Agent Venom. He's beaten Valkyrie, a life-long Asgardian warrior, in a sparring match. He's no intellectual genius, but he's proven himself a more than capable warrior time and again. Again, if Norman had prep this might be a different battle. I know people will argue the pumpkin bombs, but again Venom has taken them, and bigger explosions, and kept fighting. Norman may have experience with Spider-Man, but Flash has experience with Jack O'Lantern who fights very similarly. So really, they are on equal ground there.

Honestly, it's still a tough fight, but in the end in a random Green Goblin just doesn't have the tools to keep Flash down. He can hurt him, but can't stop him. On the flip, Eugene can both hurt, and stop, Norman. Flash has morals, but not as strict as Peter. He can be pushed and will kill if the threat is too great. He cut Carnage's head off for Pete's sake! If Norman seems like he's going to cause too much death and destruction, Flash wouldn't worry about putting the rabid dog down. I give Flash, in a random, a solid 8/10 majority."

Can you tell this image was created via the power of Microsoft Paint? Or did you think this is a legitimate variant cover by Alex Ross?

Do you also believe Flash Thompson should be the victor or do you think Goblin has what it takes to defeat the symbiote? Share your thoughts with us below. Also, don't forget to check the homepage on Monday for a new Spider-Man Battle of the Week! In the meantime, you're welcome to make suggestions right here in the comments or via Twitter.

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#1 Posted by ShadowPro (1606 posts) - - Show Bio

how can anyone think the goblin has a chance?

#2 Edited by CRTrobinson (272 posts) - - Show Bio

So spiderman's greatest villain can't beat a B list Venom? Seems about right...

#3 Posted by jashro44 (21737 posts) - - Show Bio

So spiderman's greatest villain can't beat a B list Venom? Seems about right...

I wouldn't call Flash a B list venom at this point and honestly Venom does have the damage soak to tank Normans attacks and likewise has the damage output to put him down.

#4 Posted by doombot890 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

have we forgotten about Goblin's Sonic Laughter??

#5 Edited by jashro44 (21737 posts) - - Show Bio

@doombot890 said:

have we forgotten about Goblin's Sonic Laughter??

Thats Phil unless I'm missing something. Norman was used here.

#6 Edited by TheCoolestNerdd (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@doombot890: I'll probably be beaten to it by the time I log in but I know Phil Urich has this ability, and unless I missed something I'm sure Norman didn't, and he is the goblin in this fight.

#7 Posted by doombot890 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@doombot890: I'll probably be beaten to it by the time I log in but I know Phil Urich has this ability, and unless I missed something I'm sure Norman didn't, and he is the goblin in this fight.

@jashro44 said:

@doombot890 said:

have we forgotten about Goblin's Sonic Laughter??

Thats Phil unless I'm missing something. Norman was used here.

Ah okay thought he had it too or made an upgrade

Oh well then Venom wins....until Norman regenerates and comes back for revenge

#8 Edited by TheCoolestNerdd (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@doombot890: Yup. he could add fire or sonics to goblin grenades and we'd be on a whole different playing field

#9 Posted by doombot890 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecoolestnerdd: Haha that would be awesome. Oh that makes me think that the current depowered Norman Osborn may incorporate body armor like we saw in Amazing Spider-Man 2 or in the Sam Raimi version.

#10 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7784 posts) - - Show Bio

@crtrobinson: There are plenty of B list characters that can beat A listers. Not to mention Norman is dangerous because of his prep against Spidey and Spidey's moral code. In SSM 31 Peter destroys Norman handily. As in Norman never stood a chance handily.

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#11 Posted by WarBlade539 (4580 posts) - - Show Bio

Gregg's Paint skills be improving.

#12 Posted by Wolverine08 (42247 posts) - - Show Bio

That paint though.

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#13 Posted by senglord (1481 posts) - - Show Bio

The sad thing is that Norman would beat Phil due to Norman having better skills, while Phil would literally rotfl stomp Flash as Agent Venom.

#14 Posted by Wyldsong (5576 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Jayso4201 (597 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not know much about Agent Venom, could someone give me a good place to start or any recommended reading?

#16 Posted by Spider-Man (178 posts) - - Show Bio

The results are wrong!

#17 Posted by HushoftheWind (991 posts) - - Show Bio

honeslty if Norman was planning on fighting Venom, keyword is PLANNING, on fighting Venom then i would give it to Normie. Peter is the only Spider that gets to foil Norman plans.

#20 Posted by Night4345 (4212 posts) - - Show Bio

Go Flash!

#21 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7784 posts) - - Show Bio
Peter's going to need a new nemesis...

@wyldsong:

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#22 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4415 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by Admiral_IronBeast (151 posts) - - Show Bio

Gregg's Paint skills be improving.

ditto. this one was impressive

#24 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't vote, but if I did I would have gone with Norman. Despite his lack of physical skills, he is very smart, albeit insane. I would believe he knows things about Venom, given that he had Venom on his Dark Avenger's roster. And while I can't comment on what he carries as standard gear as the Green Goblin, I'm pretty sure he has both sonic weaponry and fire bombs.

#25 Edited by k4tzm4n (44234 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999 said:

Gregg's Paint skills be improving.

@wolverine08 said:

That paint though.

@sovereign91001 said:

@darkazrael999 said:

Gregg's Paint skills be improving.

This

@wolverine08 said:

That paint though.

And this.

@admiral_ironbeast said:

@darkazrael999 said:

Gregg's Paint skills be improving.

ditto. this one was impressive

Don't be jelly!

@jayso4201 said:

I do not know much about Agent Venom, could someone give me a good place to start or any recommended reading?

http://www.amazon.com/Venom-Vol-1-Rick-Remender/dp/0785156771/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399671198&sr=8-1&keywords=venom+rick+remender

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#26 Posted by jashro44 (21737 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't vote, but if I did I would have gone with Norman. Despite his lack of physical skills, he is very smart, albeit insane. I would believe he knows things about Venom, given that he had Venom on his Dark Avenger's roster. And while I can't comment on what he carries as standard gear as the Green Goblin, I'm pretty sure he has both sonic weaponry and fire bombs.

I don't recall sonic weapons for norman. His bombs can create a lot of fire and can be impressive at times but Flash has tanked bigger explosions.

#27 Posted by Wyldsong (5576 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@omgomgwtfwtf said:

I didn't vote, but if I did I would have gone with Norman. Despite his lack of physical skills, he is very smart, albeit insane. I would believe he knows things about Venom, given that he had Venom on his Dark Avenger's roster. And while I can't comment on what he carries as standard gear as the Green Goblin, I'm pretty sure he has both sonic weaponry and fire bombs.

I don't recall sonic weapons for norman. His bombs can create a lot of fire and can be impressive at times but Flash has tanked bigger explosions.

Nope, sonic weaponry was not the norm. He did have a "sonic frog", but it wasn't standard gear.

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#28 Posted by jashro44 (21737 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Yea thats what I thought. Thank you.

#29 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @wyldsong:

Thanks for the insight. I was not entirely sure what Norman carried around as standard gear. After hearing your thoughts, Norman should lose with his standard gear. Though I wonder how this match would turn out if Norman had a little bit of prep.

#30 Posted by micah (1382 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course Venom wins. Norman is simply no match for him.

#31 Posted by Wyldsong (5576 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: With prep, Norman would take it. He has worked with the symbiote before, and is very familiar with it. He definitely has the resources and the tech to put that knowledge to good use.

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#32 Edited by jashro44 (21737 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: No problem. With prep Norman would win. As you mentioned he's worked with venom as his boss so he'd probably have something planned already. I don't see Norman losing with prep based on that alone.

#34 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn right.

This is bullshit! Venom is fucking handicapped!

0/10 try harder.

#36 Edited by InFamous_Wolf (979 posts) - - Show Bio

#37 Posted by CyberWarrior (1538 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7784 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyberwarrior: Carnage USA. Great mini. It's really Venom's first showcase, although not his first appearance. I really dig the art in it.

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#39 Edited by AmazingWebHead (2414 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh really? And just how would Flash counter the sonic toad?

I know nobody remembers this, but it happened. Sonics beats symbiote!

#40 Posted by Novemberx2 (447 posts) - - Show Bio

didn't know venom could use the superpower of popularity to beat the goblin. I'm mean venom barely stood a chance to without that power, what was he gonna do? hope to beat the goblin by looking cool?

#41 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm 110% okay with these results - Goblin might win in a non-random encounter but when it's totally off the cuff?

Agent Venom takes it.

#44 Posted by Talyn (16 posts) - - Show Bio

People keep saying that Norman has been around the Venom symbiote so he would know how to beat him. You not taking in account that each Venom host doesnt have the same personality or fight the same e.g. Flash uses guns. Also the symbiotes current host have access to all the previous host memories so Flash would have knowledge on Norman as well.

#45 Posted by CyberWarrior (1538 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: Oh! Somethin' with Agent Venom I haven't read yet! Thanks!

#46 Posted by SC (13110 posts) - - Show Bio

@matanui123: Hello. Please refrain from such comments in the future also remembering CV's policy on swearing. As in not allowed.

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#47 Posted by christianwhite (47 posts) - - Show Bio

agent venom outclasses goblin in strength, durability, and speed, making it an easy win for venom

#48 Posted by Jayso4201 (597 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n:

Thank you, purchased. Amazon thanks you as well. LOL