#1 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Start on adjacent rooftops in New York.  To the ko.  No preptime.  No bfr.  Fight in character.

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vs

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#2 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

MayDay.CURBSTOMP

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#3 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"MayDay.CURBSTOMP"

Never read a Hawk/Dove comic have you?
#4 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Vance Astro said:
"MayDay.CURBSTOMP"

Never read a Hawk/Dove comic have you?"
Only way to prove that is to prove me wrong....
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#5 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

It's my thread.  I wouldn't post it if I didn't think it was a close fight so I'm not really gonna argue for either side.

I own every Spider-Girl, Amazing Spider-Girl, and Avengers Next (new series where Spider-Girl is actually a member) comic book as well as every issue of the second Hawk and Dove series and mini (ie just about every issue Dawn is in).

I think it's a good fight.  You don't.  Hence, I doubt you've read a comic book with Dove in it before.  That and you didn't deny it. ;-)

#6 Edited by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"It's my thread.  I wouldn't post it if I didn't think it was a close fight so I'm not really gonna argue for either side.

I own every Spider-Girl, Amazing Spider-Girl, and Avengers Next (new series where Spider-Girl is actually a member) comic book as well as every issue of the second Hawk and Dove series and mini (ie just about every issue Dawn is in).

I think it's a good fight.  You don't.  Hence, I doubt you've read a comic book with Dove in it before.  That and you didn't deny it. ;-)"
This is a forum..I could say I read Hawk\Dove comics but what is your incentive to believe me? Whether I say I do or I don't you don't have to believe me..that's why I said the only way to prove I never read a Hawk\Dove comic is to prove this isn't a curbstomp.Like you just said you own all these Spider-Girl comics...What would make me believe that? Not saying you don't but it's just a statement.
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#7 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Why would I bother lying?

Why would I even bother proving you've never read a Hawk/Dove comic?  You've already made that clear.

#8 Posted by oldmagic (5295 posts) - - Show Bio

they both lose. 

#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"

Why would I bother lying?

Why would I even bother proving you've never read a Hawk/Dove comic?  You've already made that clear.

"
So because I didn't say right away that I read a Hawk\Dove comics..I didn't? You can't prove anything until you prove me wrong.I say it's a curbstomp..you say it's a fairly equal match-up.I don't agree..AT ALL.Doesn't mean I didn't read the comics.We can all read the same comics and interpret things differently.IMO..MayDay is far out of Dove's league.If you don't think so..tell me why.That is the point of battle forums.
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#10 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

Which Dove is it? The pic you used had two.

#11 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Which Dove is it? The pic you used had two."

My bad.  Dawn Granger.  Don is a ghost in that picture (and Don vs May would be a curbstomp).

Vance Astro said:
"Zoom said:
"

Why would I bother lying?

Why would I even bother proving you've never read a Hawk/Dove comic?  You've already made that clear.

"
So because I didn't say right away that I read a Hawk\Dove comics..I didn't? You can't prove anything until you prove me wrong.I say it's a curbstomp..you say it's a fairly equal match-up.I don't agree..AT ALL.Doesn't mean I didn't read the comics.We can all read the same comics and interpret things differently.IMO..MayDay is far out of Dove's league.If you don't think so..tell me why.That is the point of battle forums."

Because you won't tell me that you have read one of them when I asked.  As far as I can tell (and you won't say differently), you have not a clue what Dove can do.  The alternative is that I just don't know what I'm talking about, which is a possibility but given that I've read all their comics, it's pretty unlikely.  Or I could just be a liar I guess.  Or you could.  But those seem very silly to take into account.

If you really want me to prove you wrong...let me find some scans.
#12 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"erik said:
"Which Dove is it? The pic you used had two."

My bad.  Dawn Granger.  Don is a ghost in that picture (and Don vs May would be a curbstomp).

Vance Astro said:
"Zoom said:
"

Why would I bother lying?

Why would I even bother proving you've never read a Hawk/Dove comic?  You've already made that clear.

"
So because I didn't say right away that I read a Hawk\Dove comics..I didn't? You can't prove anything until you prove me wrong.I say it's a curbstomp..you say it's a fairly equal match-up.I don't agree..AT ALL.Doesn't mean I didn't read the comics.We can all read the same comics and interpret things differently.IMO..MayDay is far out of Dove's league.If you don't think so..tell me why.That is the point of battle forums."

If you really want me to prove you wrong...let me find some scans."
If you had done this from the beginning we wouldn't have had to do all of this analysis.
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#13 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

Or maybe you could have stated your reasoning and attempted to support your statement, Vance...

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#14 Edited by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Or maybe you could have stated your reasoning and attempted to support your statement, Vance..."
I could have but he didn't oppose my argument..he said he wasn't going to argue for either side so I didn't see the point.I usually just say who I think wins first and then wait for someone to give me a reason i'm wrong.So that I don't waste time writing out a long post if I don't have to.
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#15 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Buckshot said:
"Or maybe you could have stated your reasoning and attempted to support your statement, Vance..."
I could have but he didn't oppose my argument..he said he wasn't going to argue for either side so I didn't see the point.I usually just say who I think wins first and then wait for someone to give me a reason i'm wrong.So that I don't waste time writing out a long post if I don't have to."
your argument was "mayday CURBSTOMP" which really isn't an argument at all.  Then you went off on a dumb tangent about whether you had or had not read dove comics.  Why don't you post an argument next time?  BTW, quoting "mayday CURBSTOMP" isn't an argument.
#16 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio
the human Juggernaut said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Buckshot said:
"Or maybe you could have stated your reasoning and attempted to support your statement, Vance..."
I could have but he didn't oppose my argument..he said he wasn't going to argue for either side so I didn't see the point.I usually just say who I think wins first and then wait for someone to give me a reason i'm wrong.So that I don't waste time writing out a long post if I don't have to."
your argument was "mayday CURBSTOMP" which really isn't an argument at all.  Then you went off on a dumb tangent about whether you had or had not read dove comics.  Why don't you post an argument next time?  BTW, quoting "mayday CURBSTOMP" isn't an argument."

Nope. Vance's post make perfect sense to me. It wasn't his statement that was challenged, it was whether or not he reads that particular comic.
#17 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Nope. Vance's post make perfect sense to me. It wasn't his statement that was challenged, it was whether or not he reads that particular comic."
Make no mistake, his statement was challenged.  It was challenged to the extent that I accused him of having literally no idea what he was talking about.  Hence why I suggested that he must have never read a comic with Dove.
#18 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
the human Juggernaut said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Buckshot said:
"Or maybe you could have stated your reasoning and attempted to support your statement, Vance..."
I could have but he didn't oppose my argument..he said he wasn't going to argue for either side so I didn't see the point.I usually just say who I think wins first and then wait for someone to give me a reason i'm wrong.So that I don't waste time writing out a long post if I don't have to."
your argument was "mayday CURBSTOMP" which really isn't an argument at all.  Then you went off on a dumb tangent about whether you had or had not read dove comics.  Why don't you post an argument next time?  BTW, quoting "mayday CURBSTOMP" isn't an argument."
If he had explained why he thought I was wrong rather than asking me a question about what I read there would have been no tangent.If I ask you if you right now if you ever saw the Matrix...you could say yes and be lying and I would have way to tell if your telling the truth.So If I had said I did read Hawk\Dove and was lying..unless he proves that my statement is outlandish there is no way to prove I didn't read the comics.The point of the thread isn't whether you read comics based on either character..it's whether you can make an argument well enough for a winner to be chose.How about you make an argument and stop worrying about what I'm doing.
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#19 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure he knew that. But he didn't have to address that as such because of the way your challenge was structured.

#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"erik said:
"Nope. Vance's post make perfect sense to me. It wasn't his statement that was challenged, it was whether or not he reads that particular comic."
Make no mistake, his statement was challenged.  It was challenged to the extent that I accused him of having literally no idea what he was talking about.  Hence why I suggested that he must have never read a comic with Dove."
This is my point..You claim I don't know what i'm talking about but after 5 posts you still have yet to provide evidence that makes you claim a reality.So we can go on and on about this all day or you could actually tell me or show me something that will prove that this isn't a CURBSTOMP in May's favor.
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#21 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
I could have but he didn't oppose my argument..he said he wasn't going to argue for either side so I didn't see the point.I usually just say who I think wins first and then wait for someone to give me a reason i'm wrong.So that I don't waste time writing out a long post if I don't have to."
He did oppose your "argument". Aside from the implied challenge of "Never read a Hawk/Dove comic have you?" he made the thread clearly thinking it was a close fight (which he later said explicitly) which was in opposition to your post both before and after you made it. 
And long post? It doesn't have to be long. I don't know what your reasoning is, but your post could have been as simple as "Mayday, because she's stronger, faster, more agile, and her attraction/repulsion powers and spider sense give her an advantage" and that would have been better than what you did write.
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#22 Edited by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Vance Astro said:
I could have but he didn't oppose my argument..he said he wasn't going to argue for either side so I didn't see the point.I usually just say who I think wins first and then wait for someone to give me a reason i'm wrong.So that I don't waste time writing out a long post if I don't have to."
He did oppose your "argument". Aside from the implied challenge of "Never read a Hawk/Dove comic have you?" he made the thread clearly thinking it was a close fight (which he later said explicitly) which was in opposition to your post both before and after you made it. 
And long post? It doesn't have to be long. I don't know what your reasoning is, but your post could have been as simple as "Mayday, because she's stronger, faster, more agile, and her attraction/repulsion powers and spider sense give her an advantage" and that would have been better than what you did write.
"
I understand what your saying but all the this is aside from the actual battle.All I want Zoom to do is prove me wrong...If I am wrong I will except it and move on.It's simple.
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#23 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

Why can't you prove you're right?

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#24 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Why can't you prove you're right?"
Because I have nothing to go against...but someone saying "I think this is a close fight".
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#25 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

If you say a fight is a curbstomp you should be able to list out all the things that make it one. All the reasons one character wins (all the ways they can win, the powers/skills/knowledge that allows them to do so, etc) can be stated whether or not anyone else says a word.

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#26 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

Where do you stand Buckshot?

#27 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

Nowhere. I don't know Dove well and I refuse to read Spider-Girl. If this thread went anywhere I might learn something about both characters, but it's looking like that's not going to happen.

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#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"If you say a fight is a curbstomp you should be able to list out all the things that make it one. All the reasons one character wins (all the ways they can win, the powers/skills/knowledge that allows them to do so, etc) can be stated whether or not anyone else says a word."
Fine I'll do it right now.
1.May is a far better acrobat and her powers make it even more so because she has webbing and can stick to walls giving her more options.I'm not sure whre Dove's agility is at but I know it isn't superhuman.Supposedly Dick Grayson is DC's best acrobat and I don't think Dove is on his level.
2.May has super strength..able to lift 5 tons..I don't think Dove even bench's more than Cap or Batman.
3.Dove is fairly durable but a flurry of 5 ton punches will for sure render Dove unconsious not to mention may being able to grab things with webbing and throw them.
4.Dove and May both have a danger sense..since these sense are involuntary they can be tricked or lead...I think May is smart and fast enough to void out her Danger sense and take her down.
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#29 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Buckshot said:
"If you say a fight is a curbstomp you should be able to list out all the things that make it one. All the reasons one character wins (all the ways they can win, the powers/skills/knowledge that allows them to do so, etc) can be stated whether or not anyone else says a word."
Fine I'll do it right now.
1.May is a far better acrobat and her powers make it even more so because she has webbing and can stick to walls giving her more options.I'm not sure whre Dove's agility is at but I know it isn't superhuman.Supposedly Dick Grayson is DC's best acrobat and I don't think Dove is on his level.
2.May has super strength..able to lift 5 tons..I don't think Dove even bench's more than Cap or Batman.
3.Dove is fairly durable but a flurry of 5 ton punches will for sure render Dove unconsious not to mention may being able to grab things with webbing and throw them.
4.Dove and May both have a danger sense..since these sense are involuntary they can be tricked or lead...I think May is smart and fast enough to void out her Danger sense and take her down.
"
1. Wrong.  Dove is well beyond Dick Grayson in agility.
2. Wrong.  Dove does have super strength.
3. I honestly think they're close enough in strength and durability for that to go both ways.
4. And that also goes both ways.  Dawn's actually smarter than May.

Shame that you won't read Spider-Girl, Buckshot.  It's way better than Amazing Spider-Man.

Here are some scans for you.

strength feat
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beats the Top, a Flash foe with super speed and hypnotism powers

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coolest example of the way her super senses work

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more super awareness
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And I'm not even saying that Dove will win.  But it will be a good fight.
#30 Posted by oldmagic (5295 posts) - - Show Bio

looking at the scans....spidygirl wins

#31 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Buckshot said:
"If you say a fight is a curbstomp you should be able to list out all the things that make it one. All the reasons one character wins (all the ways they can win, the powers/skills/knowledge that allows them to do so, etc) can be stated whether or not anyone else says a word."
Fine I'll do it right now.
1.May is a far better acrobat and her powers make it even more so because she has webbing and can stick to walls giving her more options.I'm not sure whre Dove's agility is at but I know it isn't superhuman.Supposedly Dick Grayson is DC's best acrobat and I don't think Dove is on his level.
2.May has super strength..able to lift 5 tons..I don't think Dove even bench's more than Cap or Batman.
3.Dove is fairly durable but a flurry of 5 ton punches will for sure render Dove unconsious not to mention may being able to grab things with webbing and throw them.
4.Dove and May both have a danger sense..since these sense are involuntary they can be tricked or lead...I think May is smart and fast enough to void out her Danger sense and take her down.
"
1. Wrong.  Dove is well beyond Dick Grayson in agility.
2. Wrong.  Dove does have super strength.
3. I honestly think they're close enough in strength and durability for that to go both ways.
4. And that also goes both ways.  Dawn's actually smarter than May.

Shame that you won't read Spider-Girl, Buckshot.  It's way better than Amazing Spider-Man.

Here are some scans for you.

strength feat
caption































caption












































 









beats the Top, a Flash foe with super speed and hypnotism powers

caption












































coolest example of the way her super senses work

caption



























more super awareness
caption





























And I'm not even saying that Dove will win.  But it will be a good fight."
Ok,Nice Scans...
1.Dove may be more agile than Grayson..doesn't make her a better acrobat.
2.In the first scan I see she lifted a car but then what happened to the car that made is crunch up like that? Either way she's not as strong as May.
3.As for Dove's super senses..They are no better than Daredevil's.
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#32 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, she probably can't do the same type of tightrope junk but why bother?  She can fly and is way faster.

That was Asure, some crazy chick that got the powers of a goddess like matter transmutation and super strength. I agree that Dove isn't quite as strong as Spider-Girl but they're comparable.

You're wrong about Dove's super senses not being better than Daredevil's though.  They do soooo much more.  Things like knowing the exact angle to hit something to make it colide with something else at a certain point.  Daredevil is good and he's more experienced with his super senses but hers are definately more powerful.  They have to do with her mind and her eyes though so she isn't going to see something coming from behind like Daredevil would.

#33 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Okay, she probably can't do the same type of tightrope junk but why bother?  She can fly and is way faster.

That was Asure, some crazy chick that got the powers of a goddess like matter transmutation and super strength. I agree that Dove isn't quite as strong as Spider-Girl but they're comparable.

You're wrong about Dove's super senses not being better than Daredevil's though.  They do soooo much more.  Things like knowing the exact angle to hit something to make it colide with something else at a certain point.  Daredevil is good and he's more experienced with his super senses but hers are definately more powerful.  They have to do with her mind and her eyes though so she isn't going to see something coming from behind like Daredevil would."
I'm not talking about tight rope stuff...I'm talking about acrobatic manuvers that keep you from getting hit.
Show me or tell me a speed feat she has done that proves she's faster than May? I know she can fly but that only make her more vulnerable.

Daredevil's sense's showed him a weakness in steel bars so he could bend them and get out of jail..he was even able to pick up on when Nightcrawler would appear before Spider-Man's spider-sense picked it up.May doesn't have to see what's coming at her to dodge it like Daredevil which would prove her senses to be more valuable..not to mention her reaction time.

Dove could barely catch the car cube (lol)...Most sedan's don't way more than 2-3 tons meaning Spider-Girl would have more than enough strength to catch it and throw it back.
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#34 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

Dove's pretty cool.

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#35 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Dove's pretty cool."

I always thought so. :-)

Vance, you're throwing around this 5 ton strength for Spider-Girl.  Can you give an example of a strength feat for her?  I mean, I know she's super strong but I can't think of a time for the life of me when she's ever lifted anything that was even 1 ton.
#36 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Buckshot said:
"Dove's pretty cool."

I always thought so. :-)

Vance, you're throwing around this 5 ton strength for Spider-Girl.  Can you give an example of a strength feat for her?  I mean, I know she's super strong but I can't think of a time for the life of me when she's ever lifted anything that was even 1 ton."
It's in the handbook..I don't happen to have a scan though.
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#37 Posted by Sling Shot (3560 posts) - - Show Bio

I like this fight. Creative choice. Don't know enough particulars though I am pretty familiar with Dove and could prolly deduce about Spi-girl,But ..yeah I'ont know yet.

#38 Posted by -Unseen- (1198 posts) - - Show Bio