"they're pretty much the same thing. in Marvel the LT is 2IC tp the One Above All, in DC The Specter is 2IC to The Creator. it's a stalemate, neither can win. M"
huh really? i thought this would b4 a good battle and you know what methos THANKS for runing my thread JK
lol, i know the Living Tribunal is second in power in the Marvel universe... in the DC Universe The Specter is the right hand of God... you know, God's Vengeance?
"lol, i know the Living Tribunal is second in power in the Marvel universe... in the DC Universe The Specter is the right hand of God... you know, God's Vengeance? they don't come much more powerful than that M"
The Spectre has yet to be shown to be powerful enough to annihilate solar systems or even greater celestial objects. LT has.
I admit we may have not seen the uppermost limit of the Spectres power (he has held back 2 dimensional variants of earth to prevent their merging) but based on the showings to date, LT appears to be the more powerful.
"they're pretty much the same thing. in Marvel the LT is 2IC tp the One Above All, in DC The Specter is 2IC to The Creator. it's a stalemate, neither can win. M"
huh really? i thought this would b4 a good battle and you know what methos THANKS for runing my thread JK"
It would be a good battle. There just wouldn't be a winner.
"The Spectre has yet to be shown to be powerful enough to annihilate solar systems or even greater celestial objects. LT has. I admit we may have not seen the uppermost limit of the Spectres power (he has held back 2 dimensional variants of earth to prevent their merging) but based on the showings to date, LT appears to be the more powerful."
I agree with you. Not knowing as much about Spectre, I cant remember if he is a being outside of DC's primary universe. Living Tribunal is of the multiverse, above the mere powers of the universes as he has to judge them all. If The Spectre is only tied to one universe, then I would suspect that The Living Tribunal is more powerful.
Speture almost single handley beat the whole magic world in DC , It was done to someone stealing his powers and using them agaisnt him that they won, In fact she was the only person able to do that, Speture Has unbelviable power, I would say him, I dont know why but, the guy scares the hell out of me.
No, The Specter isn't tied to any one universe or time... he's quite capable of moving through Hypertime and traveling back through Crisis on Infinite Earths to do what he wants to...
I dont mean that he's trapped in one universe. I mean is he a part of one universe? Was he created in one universe? Any number of characters can move from universe to universe but The Living Tribunal exists outsides of any one universe because he is of the multiverse. He would have no trouble with all of the magic users of one universe taking action, he would simply wipe that universe out of existence with the wave of his hand, or just wipe those magic users out of existence and leave the universe. I'm just wondering if the Spectre is as powerful as the Living Tribunal is. I have no doubts about the Tribunal's power level.
"The Specter is the right hand of God... he is literally the Creator's vengeance... M"
I do know that. I will assume that means that he is not just God's right hand in this universe, but that he is God's right hand across the universes. I dont know that for sure, but I'll assume that. We still have no showings of him doing things on the Living Tribunal's level. You love to mention that Ion cowed Specter. I like to think that it wasn't exactly like that, but if it was, then I would think that would be reason enough to think Tribunal is more powerful. Even when Thanos had the Inifinity Gauntlet, Tribunal was completely unmoved. No individual from any one universe, no matter how powerful, is anywhere near the Living Tribunal's power level. So I'm still not sure that Specter is on Tribunal's power level.
there are 6 or 7 beings in the DCU that are completely removed from anything... beings that could wipe out the entire universe with a wave of their hand and just move on across the multiverse.
Specter, The Quintessence and Ion are the 7 that immediately come to mind...
those beings are the ones that can happily destroy or remake universes at a whim...
I dont doubt that. There are people like that in Marvel too. Phoenix and as I mentioned before, anyone with the Infinity Gauntlet could do the same, but being able to wipe out one universe wouldn't even make you a concern of the Living Tribunal. He's far beyond that.
We're essentially not saying anything different. I'm just not certain how powerful Specter really is. Using an analogy, being able to destroy a universe could be equated to being able to press 100 tons over your head. Lots of people can do that but does that mean that they can take out Superman? I havent seen Specter do things that are on Tribunal's level and with what Arrow was mentioning about magic users stealing his power and defeating him, that really casts some doubt.
i'm assuming that Arrow is talking about the time that the Specter was being controlled by Neron... the problem with The Specter is that he prefers to anchor himself to another being, Jim Corrigan or Hal Jordan for example. Without that anchor then the Specter is pure vengeance.
Like you've seen the LT do some amazing things that the Specter hasn't, i've seen The Specter do things that the LT hasn't, like keeping two separate universes apart through his own power.
"i'm assuming that Arrow is talking about the time that the Specter was being controlled by Neron... the problem with The Specter is that he prefers to anchor himself to another being, Jim Corrigan or Hal Jordan for example. Without that anchor then the Specter is pure vengeance. Like you've seen the LT do some amazing things that the Specter hasn't, i've seen The Specter do things that the LT hasn't, like keeping two separate universes apart through his own power. M"
Well if someone else could control him because of his human anchor than the Living Tribunal could do the same. And the Living Tribunal doesn't have any weaknesses like that.
Isnt the spirit already merged with a host? If that host is then controlled then what happens to the spirit? Is it not still anchored to that host? I thought that was how it was controlled before, but are you saying that a new host, who was already under someone's control, was offered up to the Specter and he was tricked into inhabiting that body and that was how he ended up being controlled?
"Isnt the spirit already merged with a host? If that host is then controlled then what happens to the spirit? Is it not still anchored to that host? I thought that was how it was controlled before, but are you saying that a new host, who was already under someone's control, was offered up to the Specter and he was tricked into inhabiting that body and that was how he ended up being controlled?"
No if you look at day of vengance the specture was not controled and well he messed up the world on a massive scale taking down the wizard Shazam
"Isnt the spirit already merged with a host? If that host is then controlled then what happens to the spirit? Is it not still anchored to that host? I thought that was how it was controlled before, but are you saying that a new host, who was already under someone's control, was offered up to the Specter and he was tricked into inhabiting that body and that was how he ended up being controlled?"
When the spirit 'merges' with the host then they become the same being... but are still seperate...
it's complicated lol
take Hal for example, he wasn't The Specter before he merged, when they did merge was was The Specter but The Specter still had it's own identity and purposes that weren't Hal's, even though they were the same being...
as i said, it's complicated lol
over all i'm still saying it's a draw... both these powers are second only to The Creator or The One Above All
Fight between Wizard Shazam and Specture was the last battle , Before that he took out Tom thumbill and Captain Marvel and well a hell of alot of Magic users
I'm inclined to agree that it's a stalemate but I always find it more interesting to continue the debate out to learn more about the characters. I hadnt known about the battle Arrow raised, so I have to go back and look into that. And you've given me something to think about Methos with the division between the host and the spirit and how that could be used against him. Thanks fellas.
"I'm inclined to agree that it's a stalemate but I always find it more interesting to continue the debate out to learn more about the characters. I hadnt known about the battle Arrow raised, so I have to go back and look into that. And you've given me something to think about Methos with the division between the host and the spirit and how that could be used against him. Thanks fellas."
look at Day of Judgement for a better discription of the division / merge of spirit
"Fight between Wizard Shazam and Specture was the last battle , Before that he took out Tom thumbill and Captain Marvel and well a hell of alot of Magic users"
Fine, that is one aspect of "The Creator". LT is all aspects of "The One Above All" the ultimate balance.
Also, the way it sounds Spector exists in one universe at a time. LT exists in all Universes at once, there is only one LT in all multiverses just like "The One Above All."
Also, LT does not judge universes, but actualities. Actualities are the sum of dimensions and forces within a Eternity.
yo could anyone explain what happened to the Spectre, I know him from the good old days in the early 70's comics, and all of a sudden he's like the king of the universe or something, could someone fill me in?
Specters own write up confirms his lower stature to LT. He was not created until 776BC? LT has existed through out all time. Specter might be big and bad, but he is no where near to LT level.
"Specters own write up confirms his lower stature to LT. He was not created until 776BC? LT has existed through out all time. Specter might be big and bad, but he is no where near to LT level."
idk... ras al ghul was born before superman but i dont think youre going to pick him in a fight between them. but what you and forever said makes me think that LT is more powerful.
Hall Of Noob Ownage says:
"The Hall believes that the outcome of this monumental battle is either a tie, or a very close win for the LT."
@Reactor: Because he/she feels like validating their opinion that the LT is superior to the Spectre in power? This is a much more direct thread pitting LT against only the Spectre.
At best, it'll be a stalemate. Normal-level Specter, LT takes him. LT is always at his most powerful, Spectre's power, for all intents and purposes, depends on the Presence's mood. Full Presence-augmented Spectre should at least be able to stalemate LT, althought I can't see either coming out on top. It feels like an alternative TOAA vs TP.
@TheGuy: Hugs and kisses I won't be doing much validating. Thats for the posters on vine to do. @Reactor said:
"At best, it'll be a stalemate. Normal-level Specter, LT takes him. LT is always at his most powerful, Spectre's power, for all intents and purposes, depends on the Presence's mood. Full Presence-augmented Spectre should at least be able to stalemate LT, althought I can't see either coming out on top. It feels like an alternative TOAA vs TP. "
I wouldn't say that. :P The TOAA and The Presence are both running around with infinite power being god in their respected universus, infinity vs infinity = moo arguement. That shouldn't be quite the case for the Tribunal and the Spectre. :D
Living Tribunal is far more powerful, but only because Spectre is limitated by Presence to use his standard power. The powers of Spectre comes from The Logoz that is his bond to God, essentially they come from God's power. Spectre at his prime (whitout Presence's limitations) has truly infinite power, much like LT level.
Nice Opinion. I think though it could go either way "
Above LT is TOAA and Infinity Being. TOAA made HOTU as almost his equal, so it is not a part of Marvel's hierarchy per se. Infinity Being is Megaversal creator. In DC we have Primal Monitor, The Presence, Lucifer and Michael who are much above fully power Spectre. At least. So Spectre is at best 5th. LT is 3rd. Spectre never created Multiverse, while LT is abve full Phoniex Force and Multi-Eternity. He is Megaversal, not only Multiversal.
Living Tribunal would defeat The Spectre... though both of them need better Costumes... come on son... a Green Cloak with some Green Victoria Secret Panties underneath ? Spectre what are ye thinking ?
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