Spartan vs Midnighter

"Hmmm.... I think Midnighter could beat certain versions of Spartan...
"

I think Midnighter. I remember a Coda warrior beating Spartan at this level. Ripped his arm off.

"I think Midnighter. I remember a Coda warrior beating Spartan at this level. Ripped his arm off."

Yup. Midnighter kill Spartan at every turn. With the high-quality of his enhancement, he even could prevent the download of his councious into a new body, ending Spartan permanently.

"Hmmm.... I think Midnighter could beat certain versions of Spartan...
"

spartan

Spartan was never quite as strong as I thought he should have been.

he is stronger faster and he thinks and reacts faster he will kill midnighter.

this

spartan easily.

bump

Midnighter, the batman people dont feel bad wanking. ( not saying for this thread necessarily )

Midnighter trashes classic Spartan.

@risingbean: spartan could talk to midnighter's computer possibility shut it down he is stronger faster he could go in to stealth mode sneak up and break midnighter's neck or just blast him even early spartan would win this when he isn't jobbing to coda's to show that there very skilled.

Spartan

Someone loves Spartan

Also no cursing

@reaverlation: are you talking about me and where did i curse.

oh never mind i see my bad lol.

but he probably does win this.

@comic_book_fan: You'll get better talks outta better people than me at this.

It was you btw ;)

@reaverlation: i am looking for a debate here but spartan has almost every advantage except for fighting skill and strategy and both of those are close and has some powers that might hinder mindighters only advantage.

he has range strength speed durability flight stealth and force fields and he can patch himself up and all of this is just spartan's original outdated body.

Midnighter probably blitzes him and kicks his head off before Spartan can do anything much less shutting down his battle computer. Spartan may or may not be stronger, never seen original bodies Spartan do anything particularly fast, and first gen Spartan got torn up pretty easily too. I truly think Midnighter can one shot him. Also Midnighter would tear the Coda apart too. If my memory serves he either beat Zealot outright or gave her a a great fight.

And if push comes to shove Midnighter just says "Door."

@risingbean: the reason spartan lost to the coda was so they could show off his ability to take pain and his power to operate under pressure there are other issues where he fought several coda at once and owned them when angered.

he has been oneshotted by weaker opponents than midnighter weaker striking power any ways but all of those occasions were surprise attacks when ready he has beaten several coda one coda is a decent fight for midnighter he has a split record at fighting zealot.

spartan has battled 3 coda at once.

he can also multitask he can find a weakness in an opponent while concentrating on making sure the others get out alive at the same time.

he easily defeated 2 members of cyberforce while yelling out combat strategies to the others and has scanned advanced computers at the speed of light is what it said but i realise this is hyperbole but he scanned through insane amount of info and picked out what info they needed.

it is said he is a class 60 strength and can fly at 750 mph and thinks thousands of times faster than humans and can react several times faster i don't know the exact number there.

@comic_book_fan: I think @buckshot or @laflux can probably do more justice for Midnighter then I can. But I'm still not impressed by Spartan 1.0. I don't know what good his superior strength would be or his own combat computer would be able to do when Midnighter has already compensated using his own combat computer.

And I can't think of anyway he can deal with doors if Midnighter wanted to be cheap.

@risingbean: midnighter has a combat computer spartan is a combat computer.

and until they fight we don't know that midnighter's computer would work on spartan because it reads electrical pulses spartan having a computer brain the most advanced computer on the planet could probably block out midnighters or out react it making midnighter a step behind regardless.

@comic_book_fan: You talked about Midnighter's record against Zealot and mentioned Spartan taking out multiple Coda as if these are equal. Zealot is better (by a large margin) than 99% of the Coda, so Spartan being able to take down a group of them doesn't equal him taking her. Spartan fighting Lady Kinnea is a more accurate representation of what would happen if he really fought someone on Zealots level, and even though he fought Kinnea with the most advanced body he has, he still ended that fight cut in half. Spartan's speed has never impressed, and that's much more important than his strength here. And while I agree that, like most robot characters or those who can heal, he gets physically damaged far more than he should just because the writers know they can put him back together again after, it's still a part of who he is and it goes to show how durable he is, and I think that's durability Midnighter could get through without much trouble. As for the idea that Midnighter might not be able to read him, I don't think that's even a concern. In his solo series Midnighter has an issue dedicated to showing off his combat computer and what does he kill in that story? A room full of cyborg killers. Earlier in the series he has to fight some other robots that could completely shut him down if they tagged him even one time and he kills them without trouble. I don't think there's anything to suggest Spartan's computer mind would slow him down. Also, there was a comment about Spartan going into stealth mode. Midnighter can detect holograms and similar deceptions.

spartan took down most of cyberforce by himself he was able to hide himself from all of there scans and reacted to a blitzing velocity who can run up to 10,000 mph and and calculate a safe spot to throw her while fighting 2 other cyberforce members

spartan stomps.

bump

Hadrian

@buckshotwashere: you comparing a room full of nameless androids to spartan are is as bad as me comparing generic coda.

a newly repaired spartan impressed stormwatch they even made him leader shortly he also saved the whole team by taking on despot and his team on his own long enough for the others to get back to there ship and makes it back to the ship himself without getting hit. then later takes shots from despot without suffering any real damage.

@comic_book_fan: man this is a deep cut...

I wasn't comparing the cyborgs to spartan in reference to their skill or abolity, but in reference to their robot brains. You claimed that because spartan was an advanced robot, midnighter couldn't read him, or he could block midnighter out, or that his mind worked too fast. You didn't provide any actual evidence of this being a possibility, but I was responding anyway and pointing to instances of midnighter fighting different robots just fine without any of what you suggested taking place. What's probably an even more useful feat from that same issue is when midnighter predicted the doors on the carrier having an issue but still working. The carrier is quite possibly the most advanced piece of tech in the wildstorm universe and Midnighter had no issue with it.

@buckshotwashere: each spartan brain is supposed to be more advanced than any computer on earth.

it should be very hard for midnighter to effect something like that and spartan can operate any computer and his brain is fast enough to process information at light speed is midnighter faster than velocity? spartan could easily tag him and then some.

@comic_book_fan: "any computer on earth" is a lofty claim and there are always exceptions. Jumping past small stuff just to make a quick point, the carrier is technically on earth and it's, again, arguably the most advanced piece of tech in the wildstorm universe. Majestics difference engine was also on earth and it's programmed with constant intelligence upgrades and powered by a battery two galaxies away that was the size of a small moon. It was able to process simulations that equaled lifetimes and were able to examine other realities in the multiverse. These are just a couple pieces of tech that put spartan to shame and invalidate the claim that it's the most advanced computer.

Furthermore, there are two main kinds of evidence that prove spartan isn't automatically unbeatable because of his awesome brain. The first is pretty standard and that's him getting beaten. I'm NOT saying that losing fights means his brain is garbage, everyone loses fights, it's part of how it goes. But with the claims you're making he shouldn't lose as many as he does or end up sliced and diced so frequently. Midnighter is a good counter example because a lot is made of his brain and fighting ability, and unlike spartan, he doesn't lose very many fights and theres an in character reason for the sort of beatings he sometimes takes. The second sort of evidence is really far more damning. In world's end when spartan, max faraday, and tao are fighting statements are made about Spartans lack of creativity, and then these are backed up by the limited use of his reality warping powers. Now, I personally don't like the claim being made, but it does provoke thought. With what you're saying about spartan ability to think, taos statement should have less to stand on, but it doesn't. All in all, with direct statements about what spartan can come up with and numerous indirect displays of the limits of his mind in combat, I think it's safe to say that while he is an impressive piece of technology, he's not SO impressive that he's out of midnighter's league.

As for the speed question, given the other characters spartan has been damaged by, i dont feel velocity-level speed is necessary (regardless of the canonicity of that exchange), but in any case, midnighter actually has more consistent high-speed showings than spartan.

Spartan I guess.

Don't remember too much about him.

spartan is faster stronger more durable to spite some low showings has force fields better range he can hack computer systems can read body energy signatures and vital signs he can mathematically predict rge moves velocity who can run up to 10'000 mps he can not only react to her while he is fighting the leader of cyberforce but calculate where she is going to land so she won't be badly hurt he can also see the weakness in objects and can sort information at the speed of light and he can hide himself from all known sensors and he can trap people into stasis fields and all of this was him before his very first upgrade.

spartan went toe to toe with mr majestic, id see him taking there here.

Spartan wins.

That was a different version of Spartan than the one in this thread. The Spartan that fought Majestic had been massively upgraded and given reality warping powers.

Spartan's strength is irrelevant because he won't be landing punches (though even if he did, Midnighter has gone blow for blow with Jack Hawksmoor so he could take it). Him having greater durability is a dubious claim but even if he did it wouldn't matter because this fight isn't about who has greater durability, it's if Midnighter's offense can overcome Spartan's durability, and it certainly can. There's absolutely no evidence to even suggest Spartan could "hack" Midnighter's combat computer so that's useless. Spartan having a wide array of sensory abilities also doesn't really matter. I've already addressed your Velocity point (recap: dunno how valid the feat is. even if valid, spartan has routinely been hit and even destroyed by far slower enemies. even if we pretend Spartan could use this sort of speed, midnighter has more consistent speed feats than spartan and could overcome him). And if you could demonstrate Spartan reliably using stasis fields that might be useful, but even if you could, the easiest way to respond to this is just for me to say Midnighter uses a Door.

The only version of Spartan that can Beat Midnighter is that of Wildcats 3.0, when Spartan merged with Void. And only if Spartan surprise attack/speedbliz him teleporting Midnighter into the space. Otherwise, Midnight Stomps

@buckshotwashere: spartan trapped voodoo in a stasis field while training and all a door could do is at best make spartan switch bodies spartan has similar move reading abilities not quite as good because he does have to wait for midnighter to make the first move but once he does he can accurately predict midnighter and spartan has also been able to block all sensory powers that work in a similar fashion as the battle computer reading brain waves .

As I said, demonstrate the stasis fields if you want them to be useful at all in this discussion because right now it's nothing Midnighter can't avoid or escape from, assuming Spartan even gets to attempt it before he's destroyed or even would in this situation. Spartan doesn't have any other bodies in this fight and even if he did, switching in the middle of combat wasn't something he really did til much later than this version. Spartan's move reading is nowhere near as useful and it's something Midnighter would factor into his calculations anyway. And as with your claims about Spartan hacking Midnighter's combat computer, you have nothing supporting this idea he could block the combat computer, particularly since it isn't limited to reading brainwaves.

spartan he took a punch from fairchild without damage and then knocked her hundreds of feet into the air and briefly oneshotted her and has knocked majestic through buildings spartan better in everything except move reading and he is good at that and he could atleast hinder midnighter move reading without reading brainwaves it's just a probability generator which is exactly what spartan does spartan is just too much

Spartan takes Midnighter down, even if he has doors.