Spartacus Arena Couples Arena Battle!!!!

Spartacus and Varro

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Crixus and Naviea

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Agron and Nasir

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Gannicus and Saxa

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Rules

Standard Weaponry

Fight to the Death

Team chemistry does come into play

Fight in Capua Arena

@strider92

I did say I would ask for your opinion when the battle was made lol

@laflux: Hah! Well i'll stand by what I previously said. Gannicus and Saxa should take a majority. Gannicus has the best some of the best feats in the series (aside from Onemeaus) I would wager he could beat anyone here in a 1v1 fight. Saxa also has a lot of good showings and is at least equal to Nasir maybe even better.

Gannicus and Saxa take a small majority imo.

Gannicus best feats for me was taking down the guard which protected illythia single handily, fighting blindfolded, him and Spartacus taking down a ridiculous amount of Guards when taking the city in War of the Dammed, Stalemating Spartacus in Vengeance. I would probably say that him and Spartacus are around equal, he even admits that him and Spartacus are equal with the sword, but Spartacus is better than the spear.

Though saying that Gannicus completely dominated Crixus in a H2H fight in the city during War of the Dammed and could have killed him, had it not been for Naviea. Spartacus has never decisively beaten Crixus without mitigating factors involved (either injury or being poisoned etc).

As for Agron and Nasir, and not just for them not being my favorite team out there. Agron was effortlessly killing multiple Romans while still wounded with a makeshift Sword Shield and actually survived the battle. Of course he is a Rebel General as well -and if I recall correctly defeated Caesar As for Nasir, he was not only formally trained by Spartacus, but has shown skill with the sword and spear, effortlessly killing Romans with each. I'd say that's a pretty good showing of skill. Especially when you consider that he actually started training rebels with a sword in War of the Dammed, he least preferred weapon.

Which versions? Are they at their best?

I believe Gannicus commented on how he has become "less attuned to the sword" or something due to his travels after Gods of the Arena; he was at about his lowest when he stalemated Spartacus at about his highest.

Spartacus showed, just as Crixus had, great inherent skill with the blade once he was determined to improve after their fight with Theokales. Regardless when he fought Crixus at the end of Blood and Sand he was still far below Crixus in his prime; Crixus was weaker in that fight due to being injured for months beforehand and presently poisoned, yet they stalemated. Spartacus wasn't a match for any of the top dogs (Oenemaeus, Gannicus, Crixus, The Egyptian, etc.) in their prime for a while after Blood and Sand, but apparently Crixus, Oenemaeus and Gannicus had to get back in the groove during Vengeance so to speak.

It's important to note that Crixus' muscle mass greatly fell during his injury - effecting his duel with Spartacus in B&S - and continued to do so after the Ludis fell. Strength and endurance are vitally important to Crixus' Murmillo style of combat which he traditionally employed.

I haven't seen much of Agron in Vengeance, though I would think of him as an equal to Varro. Agron may have been a bit stronger, but Varro was smarter and overall a very talented warrior.

As far as I know, Naevia's had a PIS increase in power along with her new actor after B&S. She was supposed to be depicted as a sweet, gentle victim and apparently they've made her into some high class warrior. I didn't even make it that far in Vengeance yet, but along with others I see that simply as PIS. Naevia would be crushed by any of these seasoned fighters IMO, and even if they've made her into an effective warrior, I cannot see her holding her own against any of these highly trained combatants. Powerful Thracian warriors fell with ease against even Solonius' relatively ill-trained gladiators.

I'm not familiar with Saxa's feats but apparently she's the best female fighter so probably better than Varro and Agron in melee combat. If a bow is part of her regular equipment she certainly has the utility advantage. I can see her holding her own.

TL;DR

The way I see it, assuming they're at their best:

Gannicus and Saxa take 9.5/10 or more, in a tough fight, vs. Spartacus and Varro in the finals usually. They sometimes face Agron and Nasir in the finals, and stomp 10/10 Gannicus and Naevia.

Spartacus and Varro take a majority, say 6-8/10, over Agron and Nasir in their encounters. They beat Crixus and Naevis with higher efficiency. Against Gannicus and Saxa they put up the best fight, but I can't see them winning... even against Gannicus 2v1.

Agron and Nasir generally beat Crixus and Naevia 9/10 I think. They should take a minority over Spartacus and Varro and sometimes face Gannicus and Saxa in the finals, but I can't see them winning any either.

Crixus and Naevia can only take a slight minority against Agron and Nasir, and maybe Spartacus and Varro in the preliminaries, but never winning in the finals against Gannicus and Saxa.

Spartacus and Varro take it.

Everyone has a weak link except for this team.

Spartacus is a bit better than Gannicus. Don't believe me? Spartacus did the best against the Egyptian getting him on his back. Spartacus is the only one that decisively beat the Egyptian in the series. Spartacus could have killed him if the Romans didn't interfere. Crixus, Oenamous and Gannicus all had trouble with the Egyptian. Gannicus also readily admitted they are equal in skill with the sword but Spartacus is much better than he with a spear. If Gannicus believes they are equal yet Spartacus did the best against the Egyptian, the only reasonable conclusion is that Spartacus is a little better than Gannicus. Whose team wins is judged by their weaker link.

Varro just has the strength advantage against Navia and Saxa. He made it through the gladiator camp as well so he's most likely better trained them them as well.

Agron and Nasir, Spartacus could probably solo them. Varro just tips it in their favor even more.

Team 1

@slimj87d: Do you think Spartacus can solo Nasir and Agron?

To those that doubt Spartacus abilities.

1. Crixus and Spartacus in Blood and Sand seemed to be inferior in skill compared to Oenamous as he trained them. Oenamous was actually able to embarrass the both of them at the sametime.

2. Oenamous had a bunch of tune of fights during Vengeance yet he got overwhelmed by the Egyptian.

3. The Egyptian overwhelmed everyone in the entire series until he crossed paths with Spartacus. Spartacus is the only one to defeat the Egyptian and lay him onto his back giving Spartacus the dominate position and opportunity for a killing blow. At this point it is without a question how far Spartacus has rose. Before then you could always say that Crixus was never at 100% when they fought or if Oenamous was rusty.

4. Gannicus and Spartacus seemed to stalemate in their fight. In War of the damned Gannicus readily admits that Spartacus although equally as skilled as they are in the sword, Spartacus is by far more skilled than him at throwing a spear.

5. Again, Spartacus out of all 4 former champions, performed the best and defeated the Egyptian.

The only thing that clouds this hierarchy is Oenamous. He wasn't at 100% when he first encountered the Egyptian, but still the Egyptian overwhelmed Crixus and Gannicus. Oenamous still had weeks and weeks to heal from his wounds as well. There's a good chance that even if he was at 100%, the Egyptian would have still overwhelmed him as well.

Possibly. Nasir's use of the spear gives him range. The spear would keep him at bay and give him trouble while keeping Nasir safe. But Spartacus is very good at h2h. He could disarm Nasir's spear right out of his hands.

Agron and Nasir from my memory never really defeated any notable.

I think it's possible for Spartacus to solo them if they were both using swords for sure. But Nasir using a spear, I'd have to think about it. Can't underestimate that spear.

After seeing the ease in which Gannicus dispatched Crixus with in Damned i'm leaning towards his team. Although Spartacus and Varro stand a good chance too.

After the last episode of Spartacus, seeing him drenched in blood after killing so many fodder armies, or the fact that his spear throw is damn near accurate, i am totally all with Spartacus.

Crixus and Aagron for whatever reason did not impress me as much as Spartacus or Gannicus, i would put the two at top there.

I fell, Navia while good against fodders is going to struggle against everyone here, so would Saxa.

I personally would rank

1. Spartacus team 1

2. Gannicus team 2

With the two having a very close match.

Yes, that's exactly it. If there's one thing that was made clear at the start of Vengeance, it's that the Doctore's psyche was shattered.

Crixus was crippled greatly by his injury and didn't have much time before the Ludis fell to get his strength back.

I'm not sure when Gannicus fought the Egyptian, but again, he said himself he lost his touch with the sword during his travels as he presumably spent all his coin on wine and women and I'm not sure if anything after that can be considered his peak.

The way I see it... the reasons Spartacus rose to prominence in terms of relative skill was because the high point was lowered. Oenemaeus, Gannicus, and Crixus were depowered, and most second-tier, yet proven virtually invincible gladiators like Barca, Auctus, Gnaeus and Varro were killed off by PIS. Crixus never was able to get his strength back after his injury, Oenemaeus nearly went insane, and Gannicus had a who-knows-how-long drinking binge before he recently returned to combat in Vengeance after being absent for years from Gods of the Arena onwards.

@thc: 6 months had passed in between vengeance and war of the damned where they fought, killed and trained dozens of men. At this point there is no excuse for Gannicus being so called depowered and coming from his own mouth he and Spartacus are equal in skill with the sword which says a lot coming from Gannicus own mouth.

I don't believe Gannicus was "depowered" during vengeance. Oenomaus had plenty of tune of fights and being a Doctore at a Galdaitor school was not "depowered" when they met in the Arena. Yet they performed almost equally, if Oenomaus was not in shackles they probably would have stalemated. The Egyptian again got the better of both of them 1 on 1, did very well against the both of them due to his speed and efficiency yet Spartacus showed to be faster at counter and defeating the Egyptian.

So with my first point, they are both equal, and this is with a sword, as Gannicus said so himself but adding in my second point it actually shows Spartacus is slightly better.

Between Gannicus and Spartacus, I would rate it a 5.5 or 6 in Spartacus favor.

Agron and Nasir are the weakest team here. They go down first.

Crixus and Naevia fight well as a team but they are both too concerned about the other's well-being. As soon as Naevia gets herself into trouble Crixus will rush to her defense and that will leave himself open

I think in the end it comes down to Spartacus and Varro against Gannicus and Saxa.

Gannicus and Spartacus are about equal. Gannicus is arrogant and likes to put on a bit more of a show but he's not stupid and knows enough to take Spartacus seriously. They are so evenly matched that the winner of this bout is not determined by either of them.

Varro and Saxa is what determines this match. Varro was pretty good...but at the time of his death he still had a long way to go in terms of skill. Saxa however was a warrior even before she met up with Spartacus and co. and I believe Varro wil underestimate her because she is a woman. Once that fight is over its 2 vs 1 vs Spartacus who already has his hands full with Gannicus alone.

I think the Egyptian is overblown for his power.

Crixus was at a disadvantage experience-wise in their fight as he was without shield against the Egyptians daggers which are also not regularly used in the arena. Not to mention the Egyptian's inhuman pain tolerance.

Again the Egyptian doesn't seem to stomp due to skill or speed, or even strength, but rather because his twin daggers are a foreign art to Oenemaeus. Oenemaeus' failure can simply be attributed to his age - he's suffered much mental pain (not meant to be a pun LOL).

Gannicus has also stomped Crixus H2H:

And in the end, Gannicus was the one who stomped the Egyptian. Oenemaeus was there and took over after Egyptian's strength knocked Gannicus flying, and as Gannicus split off to kill a few Romans, Oenemaeus was overwhelmed by the Egyptian once again (he had one eye, after all) and then Gannicus took over and wrecked through sheer skill and speed, just as Spartacus did:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpt3ql_egyptian-falls_shortfilms#.UW_Tt41lT_k

I think it's clear that Gannicus is superior in H2H whereas Spartacus is a bit faster with the dual blades:

Bad quality video, but again I think it clearly shows Spartacus is the slightly superior bladesman, and Gannicus superior in about everything else. After a few cuts Gannicus starts going for the disarm and they're down to 1 sword each. IMO, it would come down to H2H, which Gannicus should win.

So I agree they're more even 1v1 than I thought, though I'd still lean towards Gannicus for the minority victory, especially in a fight to the death. Spartacus loses his head a lot, and against the Egyptian he was very calm, whereas Gannicus has visibly completely kept his head under the most extreme circumstances.

And in a team I think Saxa brings more to the table than Varro.

@thc:

I the daggers being foreign were that much of a disadvantage than Spartacus had that same disadvantage as the others and overcame it quickly.

I'm going to say that Gannicus and Spartacus are still relatively close. I'm going to say Spartacus is a little better depending on what they use and who they are fighting such as if they had to use a spear, etc.

But against each other, it's so close that the outcome could be affected by many factors such as who has the higher ground, if one of them is standing on slippery grass while the other dry, etc. It doesn't matter if Gannicus is a tiny bit better than Spartacus or Spartacus is a tiny bit better than Gannicus, the margin is so minimal that it could still go either way.

To be honest, I see Spartacus, Gannicus and Crixus as comparable to Goku and Vegeta from DBZ.

Spartacus, Gannicus and Goku seem to intuitively understand fights as they happen, and are somehow (spiritually) inhumanly powerful and unstoppable.

On the other hand, Vegeta and Crixus have honed their own fighting instinct and muscle memory through rigorous martial training and the highest form of martial arts, as well as possessing unmatched physiques gained through torturous physical training. In short, I believe they worked harder for their power.

And that's why I think the foreign dagger art is rightfully more threatening to Crixus than it is to Spartacus. I doubt Crixus would have encountered a single opponent in the arena who wielded dual daggers, in addition, he spent his entire life before his training as a slave. Spartacus on the other hand, had fought in many wars and thus, against a great variety of foes in a great variety of environments. He should have at least seen an opponent wielding dual daggers in his life before fighting the Egyptian, unlike Crixus, who may have had zero experience at all.

I see their gap in H2H skill much larger than their gap in blade skill, but I wholly agree, it can end as quickly as one simple mistake as they've been shown to be on the same level of speed.

Are there any spear wielders from Vengeance or War of the Damned comparable to Barca or Auctus that make you feel this way? Spartacus' experience as a soldier supports that claim, but that level of experience is incomparable to gladiator training. Besides, Gannicus has also traveled and fought abroad, and was presumably not a slave his entire life like Crixus before becoming a gladiator.

@thc: nasir is a spear user as various other random people are in those seasons. The Romans often attacked them with spears as well. Spears were used in almost every battle from my memory.

@slimj87d said:

Yes, I looked Nasir up and he had no previous training before joining Spartacus' army. He's another deadweight here unless I see some feats showing he's got some spectacular talent, even then he's at a severe disadvantage experience wise.

Both Auctus and Barca could whip Roman legionnaires like dogs in the arena, as any respectable gladiator could, but most importantly, Barca could give Crixus in his prime a run for his money, and Auctus was supposed to be better than Barca; he simply underestimated Crixus and died for it. Had Barca not been killed right after Spartacus became champion, he would have surely contested him for the role. Gnaeus had the potential to as well, though Spartacus murdered him.

@thc: yes, barca was probably one of the best spear users in the series along with Auctus.

Barca got some good hits on Gannicus once. Gannicus was distracted though due to his love affair. Barca must have improved since then.

Nasir is far from Barca's level. Even if he was as skilled, Barca has the height and length advantage by far. Nasir and Agron are at the bottom of this list.

@laflux:

@thc:

After rewatching episode 4 of WotD, something else I wanted to bring up to discussion as I have practiced Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and would like to comment on the Crixus vs Gannicus. It is true that Gannicus did better, everything he did involved Jiu Jitsu. But I would like to mention that with the close proximity how everything was playing out Crixus was at a SERIOUS disadvantage. He was wearing pretty heavy armor compared to Gannicus who was not wearing much.

This is why you don't see people wear Gi anymore in MMA, because it puts you at a disadvantage and lowers your mobility.

I just wanted to bring this up in Crixus defense. I think he's still up there in the hierarchy of the top 5 where everyone is pretty close in skill.

Spartacus and Varro take it.

@slimj87d said:

That's a good point, though heavy and light armor respectively is their standard gear so it would surely play out the same way under normal circumstances. Crixus is definitely dominant over all the standard gladiators in H2H, I'm pretty sure he stomped Agron and his brother early on in Blood and Sand, but Gannicus is on a whole other level given his feats.

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This video analyzes Spartacus vs. Gannicus pretty well, and it concludes Spartacus > Gannicus but I have to disagree based on the evidence:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyto9e_spartacus-vs-gannicus-who-is-the-strongest_shortfilms?search_algo=2#.UW_TFI1lT_k

Gannicus appeared to have the upper hand when their fight was ended despite them having an even amount of blows struck

Although Spartacus seemed more in control against the Egyptian, his fight was cut short. I'm pretty sure Oenemaeus has also cut the Egyptian and knocked him over, and he was stomped by him twice, so it's not that big a feat.

In the end it was Gannicus who landed the killing blow on the Egyptian, by overwhelming him with uber H2H skills and an epic leap strike.

After Oenemaeus was awarded Doctore I believe his singular fighting skills began to degrade over time, yet he still stomped Crixus before Theokales, albeit while impeded by Spartacus while he still sucked ass. If you ask me, after the Ludis fell, Oenemaeus was nowhere as good afterwards as when he fought Spartacus and Crixus before Theokales, and even then he was weaker than his prime.

In my opinion, the most skilled is Oenemaeus in his prime closely followed by Gannicus, closely followed by Spartacus, and Crixus is a bit further behind.

The Egyptian seemed more like some sort of super soldier, as if his martial arts training came from a computer and he had artificially increased strength, speed and pain tolerance/durability.

Gannicus solo's

@thc:

Oenemaus is a big question mark. I really can't rank him while using facts.

It is true that he was out of comission for a while but as a trainer he participated in spars and teaching others you see faults and bad habits that improve your skill as well. So he shouldn't have been that rusty. He also had a lot of tune of fights fighting in the pits. He wasn't that rusty. I would argue that he was at 90% to 100% and no less.

Spartacus, you know how I feel about that. I saw their spar differently and it seemed pretty even if not Spartacus tosses got him more points in my book. Episode 1 in war of the damned Gannicus says Spartacus is his equal in the sword but better with a spear. And the Egyptian just add it all up to Spartacus being slightly but not much better than Gannicus. I would still weigh them as equals since it's so close.

But lets say if they fought other types of fighters, again if it was a spear fight or if it was against a person that uses knives or something similar like spiked knuckles I would give the odds that Spartacus would do a better job than Gannicus.

@slimj87d said:

True that Oenemaeus is uncertain, but the claims about him seem legitimate. Perhaps you're right that he improved rather than got worse over time while training, that would make more sense as to why he was able to handle Crixus and Spartacus like fools.

Again I have to disagree. The only thing I see Spartacus having an advantage over Gannicus in is reactions and speed and that's only slightly. Gannicus has the advantage in versatility, and would stomp with spiked knuckles in the Pits, much harder than Spartacus did. Gannicus had gone undefeated against every type of fighter in the gladiatorial arts for much longer than Spartacus did, and arguably against a pool of much higher quality gladiators.

Spartacus' first fight with Crixus in the arena is testament to the fact that Spartacus isn't an exceptionally talented fighter. His own assessment of why he lost the fight, and how it visibly went down, all showed how naive and inexperienced he was despite being a seasoned warrior who defeated 4 of Solonius' men. Unless he's improved in the new seasons in that regard I don't see how he has any sort of superior adaptability, and while both him and Gannicus have been life long warriors, Gannicus has the experience advantage of being a gladiator for far longer than him or Crixus combined.

@thc: How many times have we seen a MMA fighter beat another MMA fighter with so called more experience and a longer career? Spartacus had losses on his record for different reasons. He wasn't driven as a gladiator and it wasn't till he accepted his role as champion his true potential really showed. His story was of a man that was enslaved and initially driven to wanting escape, find his wife and go back to the life he had before. This differs from Crixus and Gannicus drive.

Crixus and Gannicus lived to be gladiators that's why they had such an early drive. And drive is the key here, not potential as Spartacus when pushed managed to kill 4 men while being starved, tortured and emotionally traumatized over his wife and that shows he had a lot of potential. His drive was what was lacking.

Spartacus losing to Crixus and whatever came out of his tongue when he admitted his skills were lacking came from the man he was before Spartacus, the man that used to say "Spartacus is NOT MY NAME!" When he embraced his role as a gladiator, that was when he had his exponential growth and finally plateau at the end of Vengeance and beginning of War of the Damned.

Spartacus and Gannicus skill excelled like a log graph (I can explain it best with math) where sure in the beginning years one would easily dominate over the other due to experience but they both had reached a plateau where the "number of years" didn't matter anymore. On this graph it plateaus at 4 and never really passes it.

How is this actually proven? Again because of the Egyptian. I would also like to mention your argument that Gannicus excels and beats everyone at H2H, if that were true he should have had no problem with the Egyptian. The blades have the same reach as fist, and even spiked knuckles.

So the Egyptian is a counter argument to how many years being the the arena really matter. My mathematical metaphor was something to display what I'm talking about.

I think that's a fair point. But what's your top five?

For me its Spartacus, Gannicus, Omeamus (at his peak), Crixus and Agron.

But if we include villains and antagonists, then Theokoles, The Egyptian, and Carabus are all better than Agron IMO (hard to say it for me but its true), and I would argue that Crixus is not as good as the Egyptian and definitely not Theokoles.

Also concerning Agron vs Crixus H2H, one has never beaten the other, which is funny consider they spent all of vengeance at eachother's throats. When they were fighting in the Ludus in Blood and sand, Durro was getting his a$$ handed to him by Crixus, then Agron came and they started fighting until Doctore came and broke it up and punished Agron and Durro by giving them half rations. Bouts in Vengeance consisted of them tackling eachother and then having Spartacus break it up.

However I do concede that Crixus would probably beat Agron in a fist fight.

@laflux: I just have a number 1.

Spartacus and Varro, they can only lose if you put Gannicus, Crixus and Agron on the same team.