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#1 Edited by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

In pure h2h combat no stealth or weapons.

Round 1 vs unblooded predator

Round 2 vs blooded predator (however the Engineer is given a small knife)

#2 Posted by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give it to the Engineer. Since we have no idea what kind of training (if any) the Engineers have, we can assume the average Predator has a superior degree of skill. However, I can't see that overcoming the sheer size and strength advantage the Engineer is bringing to the table. One strike sent a human flying.

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#3 Posted by jwalser3 (4793 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Predator will end up like David.

#4 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

Predators do have claws. And there near each other in strength since predators have ripped out human spines before. I personally don't like Predators because they are so called master hunters when they only win through superior tech and not actual skill.

#5 Posted by TheBatman586 (6316 posts) - - Show Bio

The Engineer takes it.

#6 Posted by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

I'd give it to the Engineer. Since we have no idea what kind of training (if any) the Engineers have, we can assume the average Predator has a superior degree of skill. However, I can't see that overcoming the sheer size and strength advantage the Engineer is bringing to the table. One strike sent a human flying.

The Predator has killed a human with a casual backhand, along with much better feats such as punching a truck through the air.

#7 Edited by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@k4tzm4n said:

I'd give it to the Engineer. Since we have no idea what kind of training (if any) the Engineers have, we can assume the average Predator has a superior degree of skill. However, I can't see that overcoming the sheer size and strength advantage the Engineer is bringing to the table. One strike sent a human flying.

The Predator has killed a human with a casual backhand, along with much better feats such as punching a truck through the air.

I'm not saying a Yautja can't kill a human with a single strike... I'm saying one strike from an Engineer sent a human flying and the momentum was apparently enough to crack their back/torso (or so it sounded like). It was an impressive display of raw strength.

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#8 Posted by MisterWhisper (1800 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: A Yautja has pulled a humans head off and the spine with it, with one hand.

The engineers are just scientist, albeit very large ones. They were not shown to have any training of any kind, or even weapons for that matter. There is not even really any evidence to show that they even have a strength advantage.

#9 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: pimp handing Mr. Weyland was pretty impressive since it killed him

#10 Posted by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

@k4tzm4n: pimp handing Mr. Weyland was pretty impressive since it killed him

What made it even more hilarious was he smacked Weyland in the face with David's head.

@MisterWhisper said:

@k4tzm4n: A Yautja has pulled a humans head off and the spine with it, with one hand.

The engineers are just scientist, albeit very large ones. They were not shown to have any training of any kind, or even weapons for that matter. There is not even really any evidence to show that they even have a strength advantage.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that. It's kind of their signature thing. So, in the event I was even just a casual fan, I would have seen that multiple times just in the films. ;)

That said, the Engineer sent the gunman ragdolling with (what I recall to be) a backhand. It was, in my opinion, an incredible display of strength. It launched the man with seemingly enough force to have the resulting wall impact take his life. We could also talk about ripping off David's head, but we have no idea how durable synthetics were at the time, therefore can't really determine if that's even impressive. Also, didn't he break through the airlock door in the final act to get to Shaw? I don't recall that part vividly.

The latter is certainly a big issue here. We have ZERO background knowledge on these creatures. We just know they're quite large, strong and incredibly intellectual. When it comes to combat, we saw that one guy had no trouble dropping the group quickly (although, in all fairness only one had a firerarm) and, in spite of impossible odds, was able to resist the... "squid baby" for quite some time. There was no actual display of skill, but it's clear they're not lumbering fools either. I don't think this is a stomp (nor do I think my first post implied that at all). I do, however, think the Engineer's size and apparent strength advantage could be the deciding factor here and is enough for me to think they could take the edge in an amusing battle.

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#11 Posted by TheHeat (448 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give it to the Engineer since I don't think a lone Predator can take out a xenomorph by himself.

#12 Posted by Erik (31402 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n:

We do know that synthetics are beyond human considering they needed David to lift what two humans struggled to lift together.

#13 Posted by Asgardian Hulk (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone here thinks that Predators are much smaller than Space Jockeys/Engineers. I think they are about the same size. Predators look as though they are almost 7 feet tall.

The original Predator is about a foot taller than Arnold Schwarzenegger who is 6'2.

The Space Jockey/Engineers look like they are a little over 7 feet when they are standing next to David, Weyland, and Shaw.

Predators Tower Over Humans

Obviously, 7-foot-Predators and 7-foot-Space Jockeys are much stronger than 7-foot-humans; so just because Space Jockeys are slightly bigger than Predators doesn't mean they're much stronger. Predators seem slightly weaker than Space Jockeys, but Predators have shown better hand to hand fighting skills.

The Space Jockey fought like a barbarian against David, Weyland, and Shaw. It viciously punched and strangled the humans. The Predators fight strategically against humans and Xenomorphs at all times and are very tough and durable.

The Predator will kill the Space Jockey after a tough battle.

#14 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32058 posts) - - Show Bio

In A Vs P the Pred has the skull of a Space Jockey

#16 Posted by ComicStooge (11794 posts) - - Show Bio

AVP isn't canon anymore.

#17 Posted by ComicStooge (11794 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyway, I agree with K4tz in that the Engineers are stronger, bigger and probably more durable then the average Predator and should be able to beat one of them in a fight.

#18 Posted by Nefarious (18314 posts) - - Show Bio

The Engineer should win here.

#19 Edited by xan84 (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

Going from what i got from AVP movies (aside from that last, horible 1 where the humans are tanken to some random planet) and the games a predator is superior. They actualy have some fighting skills and not barbarian rage. I don't see so much of a diference in stg. 1 predator from that AVP 2 movie was able to hold 2 aliens from there bloody thoughts and had a melee fight with a blasted Predalien... As long as its 1 of those pro Predators he defenetly wins, its probably not much of a chalange to. Hell even those fights with the Predators that had no weapons in the first AVP movie and was impresive as hell. I remember 1 Predator grabing an Alien by its feet and smashing his head into a wall. Stg is not everything, fighting skill matter to. Keep in mind those where noob predators that where out to prove themselfs to.

#20 Edited by Picard (982 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge said:

AVP isn't canon anymore.

Who said that? O mean it's a good thing, but I want to know where you read that?

About battle - good match, but if we take comics to account, Yautja should win they are strong enough to rip through metal door -show me Engineer doing this same:

Also Yautja have better agility, speed feats, also we know that Predators are good h2h fighters:

#21 Posted by xan84 (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

Good scans dude, Predator should defenetly win this.

#22 Posted by jwalser3 (4793 posts) - - Show Bio

@Picard:That really changed my opinion lol.

#23 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Did you see that bump it left on Mr. Weyland's head?!? that was huge

#24 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32058 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicStooge
AVP isn't canon anymore.
The result would still be the same
#25 Edited by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

Yautja should win they are strong to rip through metal door -show me Engineer doing this same:

How about breaking his way through the airlock door in the final act? ;)

Regarding skill, while we have no idea if the Eningeers have any formal training (already discussed), but another issue is the fluctuation of skill we've seen among Predators. Machhiko Noguchi was able to hold her own well during training (but IIRC ending up throwing the fight on purpose). Detective Schaefer didn't do too shabby either. Obviously both have training where-as we know nothing regarding the Eningeer's background. There's a degree of fluctuation, as there should be. It's fair to assume the average Yautja will have the skill edge, but, like I said previously, while the Eningeer didn't display any skill, he hardly acted uncoordinated, either. I imagine one clean connect could have the potential to turn the tide and that should help compensate for not having the edge in skill.

While an average Predator likely has a speed and skill advantage, I do think that the Engineer has both the size (albeit not by too much, but the advantage still exists) and strength advantage. I imagine that should help it overcome those odds, granted it lands a clean connect (and I don't see that as an impossible feat). I don't see it being an easy battle at all and absolutely holds the potential to go either way.

Staff
#26 Posted by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

@k4tzm4n: Did you see that bump it left on Mr. Weyland's head?!? that was huge

hah, yes.

Staff
#27 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#28 Posted by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

Bump.

I know you're the Op and all, but what's your take on this?

Staff
#29 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: I think that the Engineer will win. Reach is almost always underrated. Someone who has a couple extra feet of reach with there arms has a good advantage. They are comparable on strength also, the only thing the Preds have on the Space Jockey's is claws. Which won't do much since the Engineer in Prometheus was tanking shotgun blasts like they were nothing.

#30 Posted by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge said:

AVP isn't canon anymore.

Proof?

#31 Posted by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Yautja should win they are strong to rip through metal door -show me Engineer doing this same:

How about breaking his way through the airlock door in the final act? ;)

Regarding skill, while we have no idea if the Eningeers have any formal training (already discussed), but another issue is the fluctuation of skill we've seen among Predators. Machhiko Noguchi was able to hold her own well during training (but IIRC ending up throwing the fight on purpose). Detective Schaefer didn't do too shabby either. Obviously both have training where-as we know nothing regarding the Eningeer's background. There's a degree of fluctuation, as there should be. It's fair to assume the average Yautja will have the skill edge, but, like I said previously, while the Eningeer didn't display any skill, he hardly acted uncoordinated, either. I imagine one clean connect could have the potential to turn the tide and that should help compensate for not having the edge in skill.

While an average Predator likely has a speed and skill advantage, I do think that the Engineer has both the size (albeit not by too much, but the advantage still exists) and strength advantage. I imagine that should help it overcome those odds, granted it lands a clean connect (and I don't see that as an impossible feat). I don't see it being an easy battle at all and absolutely holds the potential to go either way.

1) We have already discussed feats that outclass the Engineer such as punching a truck through the air, effortlessly tearing through a reinforced metal door, tossing around a adult bison like a ragdoll, and sending xenomorphs flying into a stone wall with a backhand which crumbles from the wall.

2) Your average Predator which would be Blooded would actually have much more combat experience since they dedicate centuries to hunting and honing combat skills while the Engineer seems more devoted to science, the Engineer could potentially have some combat prowess but I seriously doubt it would be on par with the Predator.

3) Neither Schaefer nor Machiko Noguchi have defeated a Blooded Predator, they were fighting Unblooded Predators/Young Bloods who wouldn't be as skilled nor experience as a Blooded Predator.

4) The Engineer has no feats that would give him the physical advantage in this and his size is almost irrelevant since the Predator hunts a variety of species that come in different shapes and sizes. A Predator would be more than durable enough to tank hits from an Engineer they have survived being impaled through the chest by a venomous worm, shot in the abdomen with a shotgun multiple times, struck by lighting, and being being shot with a explosive tip bullet and walked away in pretty good shape. The Engineer has really no advantages in this fight except his size which won't really matter size the Predator will have to speed to get up close and deliver some devastating hits.

#32 Posted by The Stegman (22708 posts) - - Show Bio

Goin' with the Predator.

Online
#33 Posted by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22:

  1. And I pointed out the Engineer busted through an airlock door with his bare hands. If those aren't meant to be durable, I don't know what is, lol.
  2. I'm well aware. No need to elaborate because we're in agreement.
  3. The OP hasn't specified what kind of Predator. Also, I was generalizing.
  4. I disagree regarding strength. I think busting through the airlock doors with nothing but his hands and launching a human with a backhand have me convinced they'd be stronger. Also, their size and mass further support that they would be the stronger species. By a lot? I sincerely doubt it, but the edge in that regard still plays a role in my eyes. I never implied one hit ends this or would be too much for the Pred to handle. I implied one clean connect could turn the tide in it's favor, and I sincerely believe that's true. A Yautja would obviously survive, but a strike of that caliber should be more than ample to take a momentary toll. From there, it's a matter of the Engineer using that momentum wisely and follows-up on the advantage. I believe it's possible, but like I've already said at least twice before, it's a good fight that could go either way. I just think the size and strength advantage could prove critical. It's mostly speculation here, especially since we haven't seen the level of pain tolerance these creatures can handle in combat.
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#34 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: woops I will get on what predator it is.

#35 Posted by k4tzm4n (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

@VercingetorixTheGreat: No worries.

Staff
#36 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Engineers can take both rounds. In my opinion they are almost certainly stronger and smarter then a Predator

#37 Posted by ComicStooge (11794 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: Ridley Scott stated so.

#38 Posted by Owie (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like the Predators probably have equal if not better strength and more skill, plus what I would think is far more agility.  They spend a lot of time easily jumping around in the treetops and whatnot.  The Engineer seemed fairly lumbering.  On the other hand I think the Engineer would be more durable.  Standing up to the squid thing for so long was impressive.  I'd still give it to the Predator.

#39 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@Owie: I would give strength to the Engineer

#40 Posted by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge said:

@nick_hero22: Ridley Scott stated so.

Proof?

#41 Posted by Owie (3562 posts) - - Show Bio
@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

@Owie: I would give strength to the Engineer

I'm by no means an expert on Predators, but the Engineer's strength didn't seem any greater than theirs.  I don't think he really broke the airlock door, he pushed the doors apart.  Plus the landing craft was damaged and I don't think they were fully functional, so opening it may not have required as much strength as it would have if the doors were functional.  (This is just a memory from seeing it once though.)  Resisting the squid was probably the most impressive thing.  Knocking the people around didn't seem any more impressive than anything a predator can do.  And if the feats listed for predators above--throwing a bison (700-2200 lbs) and a truck, knocking a xenomorph through a wall, etc.--are true, then that seems at least as strong as the Engineer.
#42 Posted by Ferro Vida (34593 posts) - - Show Bio
@nick_hero22: Look up the video (type Ridley Scott AVP into google. Someone asked him about it at comic con in 2007). 
 
Also, a Predator was killed by a guy with a sword. They are durable, but not that durable.
#43 Posted by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@nick_hero22:

  1. And I pointed out the Engineer busted through an airlock door with his bare hands. If those aren't meant to be durable, I don't know what is, lol.
  2. I'm well aware. No need to elaborate because we're in agreement.
  3. The OP hasn't specified what kind of Predator. Also, I was generalizing.
  4. I disagree regarding strength. I think busting through the airlock doors with nothing but his hands and launching a human with a backhand have me convinced they'd be stronger. Also, their size and mass further support that they would be the stronger species. By a lot? I sincerely doubt it, but the edge in that regard still plays a role in my eyes. I never implied one hit ends this or would be too much for the Pred to handle. I implied one clean connect could turn the tide in it's favor, and I sincerely believe that's true. A Yautja would obviously survive, but a strike of that caliber should be more than ample to take a momentary toll. From there, it's a matter of the Engineer using that momentum wisely and follows-up on the advantage. I believe it's possible, but like I've already said at least twice before, it's a good fight that could go either way. I just think the size and strength advantage could prove critical. It's mostly speculation here, especially since we haven't seen the level of pain tolerance these creatures can handle in combat.

1) I don't understand how knocking down a airlock is better than tearing through a door with inches of reinforced metal effortlessly? And the Predator still has better feats strength to boot such as sending xenomorphs flying and crashing through a stone wall and tossing a full grown bison around like a toy to point where the woman who was observing the incident stated it looked like a cat playing with a mouse.

2) OK

3) OK

4) I already posted some strength feats from the Predator that outclass those you still try to cling on to, honestly punch a truck through the air tops everything the Engineer did in Prometheus by a good margin. Yes, agree the hits from the Engineer would do damage, but the Predator has survived much worst then what the Engineer is capable of dishing out and remained hardly fazed. The Predator is too fast and is just as stronger if not much more stronger to due to better strength feats, the Predator would able to tank a lot more of the Engineer hits rather than vice versa. Like I said before the only advantage the Engineer has is it's size which really won't matter due to his opponent being much stronger, durable, and faster.

#44 Posted by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@nick_hero22: Look up the video (type Ridley Scott AVP into google. Someone asked him about it at comic con in 2007). Also, a Predator was killed by a guy with a sword. They are durable, but not that durable.

They can be killed by penetration and lacerations, but they are highly resilient as well. The Predator has better durable feats attached to it's name compared to the Engineer.

Coming from a different angle, the bullet entered the Predator's body. This third bullet lodged deep inside, coming to rest only after it had cut through several vital organs.

. . . "The demon isn't dead yet," said Sukhon.

"The 'demon' will be dead if it doesn't get some expert medical attention. I put a bullet with an exploding tip right through its back. No exit wound."

. . . Still, the Predator's condition did not yet warrant self-destruct. He had been hurt worse and emerged victorious. Once on a planet half a galaxy away, a venomous metal worm twice his size had shot up through the earth and pinned him through the chest armour. The Predator had chopped the head off, cut off the tail, and gone on to fight for another four hours with the rest of the worm inside his chest, before withdrawing to repair the damage.

The wheeze as its breathing grew worse indicated deep-tissue damage, but nothing irreversible. Medical care on board its ship would allow it to recover. - South China Sea

#45 Posted by Ferro Vida (34593 posts) - - Show Bio
@nick_hero22: That still doesn't change that a Wolf Predator was killed by a human with a katana. It's possible that different individual Predators have different pain tolerances, isn't it?
#46 Edited by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@nick_hero22: That still doesn't change that a Wolf Predator was killed by a human with a katana. It's possible that different individual Predators have different pain tolerances, isn't it?

I don't really consider Predators canon due to inconsistencies in the lore that was established before, but the Predator the samurai guy fought wasn't Wolf (AVPR) is was Falconer Predator. Royce had to battter and cleave the Super Black Predator dozens of times to effectively kill it. And again I really don't care much for the movie Predators I ignore it, it has too much going on as far as lore goes, it's out there.

#47 Posted by Ferro Vida (34593 posts) - - Show Bio
@nick_hero22: When I said Wolf, I meant bigger, stronger Predator (vs. the "Dog" Predators). You can consider it non-canon if you really want to, but you were just demanding proof that AVP is now non-canon so I think it's only fair that we demand the same of you.  
 
Let's see, Royce was hitting it with a big piece of wood. He was in good shape, but he was still only human. That Predator could be beaten by a human in such a manner, and the Engineer is strong enough to backhand a person across a room with enough force to snap their spine on impact. He was also durable enough to take a shotgun blast without even a scratch. He also survived his space ship being knocked out of the sky without a scratch. How can you be certain an unarmed Predator can even get through his skin?
#48 Posted by ComicStooge (11794 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida: Not to mention when Holloway was infected with Engineer DNA, he survived getting lit on fire with a flamethrower, was shot at a few times and was only killed when he was run over by the APC.

#49 Posted by Ferro Vida (34593 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicStooge: Technically that wasn't Holloway, it was Fifield. And was that black ooze Engineer DNA?
#50 Posted by nick_hero22 (6707 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@nick_hero22: When I said Wolf, I meant bigger, stronger Predator (vs. the "Dog" Predators). You can consider it non-canon if you really want to, but you were just demanding proof that AVP is now non-canon so I think it's only fair that we demand the same of you. Let's see, Royce was hitting it with a big piece of wood. He was in good shape, but he was still only human. That Predator could be beaten by a human in such a manner, and the Engineer is strong enough to backhand a person across a room with enough force to snap their spine on impact. He was also durable enough to take a shotgun blast without even a scratch. He also survived his space ship being knocked out of the sky without a scratch. How can you be certain an unarmed Predator can even get through his skin?

1) It brings a lot inconsistencies to the series the only known clan of Bad Bloods are the Killers, their is no such thing as a Predator hounds. The movie is also said to be non-canon to the AVP Universe which is a major component to Predator Universe as evident in Predator 2 their is a xenomorph skull in their trophy room.

2) That was clearly an axe Royce was hitting the Super Black Predator with.

3) Because the Predator is much stronger, I have already listed several feats that are above what the Engineer has shown. Backhand a human is nothing compared to sending two xenomorphs flying through a stone wall with a causal backhand and punching a truck through the air. I don't even know why you guys are still even bring up strength when the Predator has many more feats that are on par with if not greater than what the Engineer is capable of.