#1 Edited by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Dredeuced

  • Isaac Netero (no suicide nuke);
  • TUNED Alita (No orbital death laser);
  • Mr. Terrific (New-52);
  • Blink (AoA).

Team Veitha

  • Typhoid Mary;
  • Cyclops;
  • Spider Woman;
  • Daken.

Round 1: Treasure Island

Starting distance 2.5 miles

Time Limit: N/A

Objectives: Each team is given a key card that one member must keep on their person at all times. The card contains half the code to an impenetrable/indestructible safe located in the middle of an aircraft hangar. In order to advance to the next round all members of the opposing team must be eliminated and their key card retrieved. Once both objectives are complete and the safe is opened Your team will find a Mother Box that will boomtube them to their next location and a reward for their efforts.

Rules: Winner by K.O., Death or Incap.

For anyone that has managed to sneak a character in who has feats above level, those feats will not be applicable.

All character's are in character, with standard gear and have basic knowledge unless they have prior knowledge.

Team 1 is Blue, Team 2 is Red, Aircraft Hangar is yellow.

The first team to finish their debate and tag me get's first pick of the rewards for round 2.

You may select 1 Team Perk and 2 Individual Perks (for two different characters.)

Team Perks

Prep Time: Gives your team three hours to make a plan and explore the battlefield beforehand, the battlefield cannot be altered and no additional gear or knowledge can be gained.

Full Knowledge: You're granted full knowledge of your opponents gear, powers, weaknesses etc.

Telepathic Team Link: Your team is linked together telepathically.

Bloodlusted: Your team will kill without hesitation or remorse, their mental states and emotional states remain in character.

The Goodie Bag: Grants each of your team members: A personal wrist mounted radar unit, wireless communicator earwig, gas masks, grenades,(1 flash bang, 1 smoke, 1 teargas) and high tech goggles (10x zoom HD optics, X-ray, Night vision)

Why can’t we be friends? : Your team all cooperates and will work together as if all existing personality clashes/enmity and bad blood didn’t exist.

Give me some Backup! : Grants your team complete control of an 4 man squad of S.H.I.E.L.D Agents outfitted in Civil War style Cape-Killer armor (includes gas masks, hover discs, com units, tranquilizer darts and paralyzer lasers)

Individual Perks

Power Amp: Raises one of your character's strength by 5 tons

Defense Amp: Adds a full body coating of vibranium mesh weave armor to your character’s costume/outfit.

Speed Amp: Raises your characters reflexes by Batman levels.

Gear up: One member of your team can add a piece of non-standard gear to their arsenal that they have used previously provided the equipment doesn't put them over the tournament levels

Blades and bullets: You may turn your character’s bullets/thrown weapons/arrows into adamantium. Or your character’s hand held weapon can be transformed into an Adamantium version of itself.

Ninja: Completely silence’s your character’s movement, heart beat and breathing (any other noise they make can be heard normally)

Bag O' Grenades: Grants your character 2 electric shock, 2 E.M.P, 2 White Phosphorus , 2 Frag Grenades

@dredeuced @sovereign91001 is everything fine?

#2 Edited by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001 can I add Muramasa Claws to Daken? I forgot to tell you in the sign up thread, sorry.

#3 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: You're good and I had assumed you had already picked them.

#4 Posted by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: ok, perfect.

@dredeuced: can you tell me something about your characters before I start? I know only Blink and a bit of Mr.Terrific, so before I post I wanted to know something more. If you need some information you can ask if you want, too.

#5 Posted by dondave (36580 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

#6 Edited by Dredeuced (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha So you want to know about Alita and Netero? Sure thing.

Alita

  • Alita is a futuristic Cyborg with a special TUNED body that greatly enhances her physical abilities and senses to superhuman levels. In her TUNED Body, she's around 20-25 tonner and can strike and react to Mach 3+ attacks (not movement speed)
  • She has a vast array of armaments, including a very high powered Pistol and Rifle, grenades, and various drones that can perform a multitude of tasks, a molecularly sharp diamond wire and a large Damascus blade made out of a special steel stated as "The Strongest Steel in the Universe" -- her universe's equivalent to Adamantium(it blocks plasma and water jets meant to cut any kind of steel, for instance).
  • Alita is a world famous athlete and fighter on her planet and is one of the few practitioners and master of a long dead martial art that uses vibrations to increase attack and defense power, and is extremely skilled in sword combat
  • Alita comes with a special vehicle called Mobile Unit. A single wheeled cycle capable of high speeds and individual scouting, moving, and ammo replenishment.
  • Alita is assisted by her Gabriel Support System, a high altitude/low orbit support drone that gives her scouting information and supply drops.
  • Alita's brain is a combination of a Brain Chip computer and a Quantum Computer called Fata Morgana -- she has only used it to hack/counter hack high level hackers and government systems and junk, it is not a battle computer like Midnighter's

Isaac Netero

  • Netero is the president of the Hunter Organization, a group of elite persons of great skill who individually hunt "something." In a world of billions, there's only a few hundred at any given time -- they are all considered exceptionally skilled fighters and he is regarded highest amongst them. Before his death, he was widely considered the greatest fighter in the known world.
  • Netero is considered one of, if not the, greatest practitioners of Nen in the world. Nen is the life aura all living beings have, and Nen practitioners can use it to do a wide variety of things, including increasing their physical abilities and senses to superhuman levels, strengthening or weakening objects, or even hiding themselves supernaturally.
  • Master practitioners of Nen are able to manifest it into their specialty using Hatsu. While the specific classification of Netero's Hatsu is unknown, the form it takes is a massive, multi-armed religious construct named Hyakushiki Kannon (100-Type Guanyin Bodhisattva) that he controls in combat. It looks like this:

Netero does all of his fighting with this construct, despite his own superhuman abilities. It is incredibly large and has significant striking range -- though he primarily uses it to defend against powerful opponents and counterattack with the hundreds of arms.

edit -- if you take the full knowledge perk I will give you every bit of info I can think of, that's the basic gist of their powers without giving away every little thing.

#7 Posted by Dredeuced (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: Ok well, if you're not gonna follow up, I suppose I will.

My team perk will be: Full Knowledge

My individual perks will be: Vibranium Mesh for Blink and Vibranium Mesh for Isaac Netero.

If you want, I'll put up my argument first after you pick your perks (Unless you pick prep, in which case you should go first and describe your prep).

#8 Edited by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: sorry, but I may not able to post an argument today, so you should go first.

My team perk is:

Prep Time(I'll use it mainly to explore the environment and to create a good plan. In fact my team won't attack yours directly but they will use their prep time to find an easy way to kill one by one the members of your team. I'll tell you more later, if you don't mind).

My individual perks are:

Ninja to Cyclops;

Power up to Typhoid Mary.

#9 Edited by Dredeuced (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: Alright then. Just so it's known, the second picture is upside down relative to the first. I'll be using the first picture because it gives a relatively better look at the terrain:

I'm the blue (presumably, since you listed me first) and you're the red. My first order is to give the keycard to my hardest to put down member -- that will be Netero. Secondly, Blink's job will be to teleport my characters from their location instantly to the building where the safe is located, highlighted with the yellow circle. Blink is clearly capable of teleporting large groups of people over vast distances, even if she can't see her target, shown here in AoA teleporting her entire team to the moon:

With full knowledge, my team's first course of action upon getting there is for Mr. Terrific to give my other 3 members a T-Mask out of his six spheres, as shown, New-52's Mr. Terrific can turn T-Sphere's into masks:

This will provide a few advantages to my team, such as communication link, vision along the entire EM spectrum(feat can be provided if needed), and, of course, an effective gas mask to defend against Daken's pheromones (I imagine Full Knowledge Mr. Terrific can take extra measure to assure this effect) and any other airborne attacks your team may have, as well as making us invisible to any technology. This is at the expense of having 3 Spheres no longer available for combat, but most of Terrific's maneuvering and attacking is done with only 3, so he'll make do. Terrific will also patch the masks into Alita's communication systems with her Gabriel and drones. I'll detail this next.

Alita and Blink will then take position up on the roof to give them a vantage point and sniper angle on your team. My team should also be automatically aware of where your team is at all times, thanks to Alita's Gabriel:

Gives complete scouting info, thermal sensors, and even gives a run down of the gear your team has(not too important what with Full Knowledge, though) safely from orbit. There should be little to no hiding from my entire team, as Terrific has patched everyone into this information on the T-Mask HUDs.

From there, my roof duo does two things -- Blink will open up several small portals between our team and yours (at angles that your team can't fire through to harm us). Alita will direct her Missile Bees to go through the portals and to attack your team. Here are the missile bees:

And here's Blink teleporting several things at once (instead of to space, she's just teleporting them near your team until your team is close enough to attack otherwise):

Isaac and Terrific will be on the ground level, waiting for your team to come. They will be using the T-Mask to keep updated on your team's position via Gabriel and will engage when necessary. Netero will keep his En activated just in case we somehow lose track of someone on your team.

En (圓 Circle) is an advanced application of Ren and Ten. In Ren, aura usually envelops only a small amount of space around the user's body. En is when one extends their Ren so that their aura extends further than normal, then uses Ten at the same time to give shape to the aura, usually a sphere. Someone using En can feel the shape and movement of anything entering their circle. The downside to this is that it is extremely tiring and draining for the Nen-user to constantly deploy so much aura. Those who master En are typically able to extend their En to a circle of a 50m radius.

A visual depiction of En use:

Though there are a few people in the series who can extend their En beyond the 50meter mark (Zeno and Neferpitou), they're specialists. Netero, as a master Nen user, has an En that extends 50meters in a sphere that allows him to sense every form of movement as well as anyone who is a living being. Should someone enter his En field without the team knowing, he will alert them so they may respond appropriately. Netero's more of a mid range fighter than a sniper, so until the fight progresses, he will remain on guard duty.

Speaking of sniping, while I've proven the missile bee + portal plan should work with Blink's multiple teleportation showing, I haven't shown Alita's aim or firepower. Alita's an absolutely astonishing marksman, capable of headshotting people from hundreds of meters away without a scope (they needed binoculars to even see her in this scan):

Or even shooting another bullet speed object out of the air (note, I know it's showing the guy flicking the ball bearing, but he was doing this at even faster speeds than traditional firearms, so it should be applicable):

I'm not sure how great all your team's bullet dodging feats are, but they need to be damn good with Alita sniping at them. If even a single bullet from her rifle hits, well...it's one shotted an armored car before:

So your team definitely doesn't want to eat any of those.

Given full knowledge of your team, Alita should be aware of who on your team is good at dodging bullets and who isn't (you can fill me in on this if you need) and will attempt to disable or kill the ones who can't.

Alright, that's my opening move.

#10 Edited by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: very cool tactic :)

First of all, most of the members of my team are very good at avoiding bullets(you've got full knowledge, so I'll give you some information).

Typhoid Mary is fast enough to use her swords to redirect bullets and she's also got TK that allows her to lift objects and to stop projectiles and other kind of piercing weapons.

Spider Woman in her early days with her powers was able to avoid bullets in a small room while tens of HYDRA agents were shotting at her.

Daken has got good agility feats, but then projectiles won't be much effective against him, and he was able to recover from bombs destroying his entire body in a few moments.

Cyclops is able to tag Northstar, who is a speedster, and also Nightcrawler, who is a teleporter, so he is going to be able to use his blasts to react to bullets and also to Blink's teleportation abilities.

Then, I've got prep tyme. Scott Summers with preparation time is a very big threat, like we've seen while he was fighting against vampires and Norman Osborn. We will explore the environment to find places where to hide and understand where your team could go at first.

Since you've got a good way to find my team position, I'm not going to hide but I will attack your team directly. So at the start of the battle my team will split and we are going to attack your members from different directions.

My first move will involve Spider Woman and Cyclops. They are the best at long range and they will use their powers to attack your team and to make them split and to negate their concentration.

As I said, Cyclops is my best tactic against teleporters since he is fast enough to easily tag Nightcrawler, so he will go after Blink and attack her with his blasts. He will also make them jump to hit many members of your team at the same time. A blast with his visor on is strong enough to hurt WWHulk, so when he will make his blasts jump around he will hit all the members of your team and he may be able to put them down.

An Attack like this will take down many members of your team...
... especially with this strenght(this is WWH, he's much more durable than anyone on your team, and Scott could hurt him)

Then Spider Woman is going to attack. She has shown to be able to use her powers at 360 degrees and to channel them through metallic objects. So she will use them to attack your team from the sky and to hit them all with a single beam. Her lightnings are said to move at light-speed(it may be and hyperbole) but they are very fast, and unless you can show me the members of your team dodging lightinings then they are going to be hit by her attacks.

So Scott's beams and Jessica's lightings are going to confuse and take down some members of your team at the very start of the battle. Remember that with prep time they will attack immediatelly, while your team will require more time to create and think the complex tactic you created, while my team will just start the fight attacking.

While Scott and Jessica attack using energy attacks, Daken and Typhoid Mary will come into the fight.

I don't know which members of your team are resistant to fire, but I imagine that only the Cyborg woman may resist to fire. So Typhoid Mary will use her pyrokinesis to set all the members of your team on fire. She needs just a thought to do so, and her attacks can't be avoided because she won't throw fire beams or stuff like that, she will just set their bodies on fire using her mental powers. So in a second she will have set on fire all of your team.

Daken will come and attack the remaining members of your team. Most of them are taken down by Cyclops and Spider Woman, and Typhoid Mary's fire will reduce most of them to dust, so Daken will attack the remaing ones with his Muramasa Claws. They're said to be able to cut through anything, and they could easily cut through Iron Patriot's armor and through Asgardians, who are very very durable, so he will be able to harm most of your team.

Any scan of those masks being able to avoid pheromones? If not Jessica and Daken's pheromones together will also make impossible for your team to concentrate and to focus on their own actions, making difficult for them to react, including Blink who is not going to be able to teleport properly. Even if their masks work against pheromones, then Scott will just have to destroy them using focused blasts.

#11 Edited by Dredeuced (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha:

First of all, most of the members of my team are very good at avoiding bullets(you've got full knowledge, so I'll give you some information).

Typhoid Mary is fast enough to use her swords to redirect bullets and she's also got TK that allows her to lift objects and to stop projectiles and other kind of piercing weapons.

Spider Woman in her early days with her powers was able to avoid bullets in a small room while tens of HYDRA agents were shotting at her.

Yeah these are good -- I'm not very well versed in Typhoid Mary so I was unsure of her bullet reaction feats. Spider-Woman obviously is a bullet dodger. Though I will say, dodging bullets is probably harder when you have to worry about bees teleporting behind you and blowing up with enough force to dismember high durability cyborgs.

Daken has got good agility feats, but then projectiles won't be much effective against him, and he was able to recover from bombs destroying his entire body in a few moments.

This isn't applicable -- I've shown Alita can easily headshot people at several hundred meter distances. If Daken's brains get splattered he should not come back -- this regen feat appears to only be severely blasted away flesh and muscle, not decapitation or head puree via the power that both the Missile Bees and Alita's guns have shown. I believe if Daken takes a serious shot or two from Alita, especially to the head, he will be greatly disabled or even killed.

Cyclops is able to tag Northstar, who is a speedster, and also Nightcrawler, who is a teleporter, so he is going to be able to use his blasts to react to bullets and also to Blink's teleportation abilities.

These are not dodging feats. As a matter of fact, the second one is specifically an anticipation feat because of how familiar cyclops is with Nightcrawler's attack patterns. Even IF he were that familiar with Blink on the same level (I doubt it), I'm not having Blink teleport behind him -- she's sending dozens of bees through many quick portals at your team from all angles.

Scott's ATTACKS are fast, but how fast was Northstar going here? Was he trying to blitz Scott? Here's the full scan:

Northstar wasn't attacking Scott -- he couldn't even stop him from KOing Storm real fast. Northstar is most typically a Mach 1-2ish speedster(though I believe in his Alpha Flight days it said he had the potential to go near lightspeed, he never does and definitely wasn't in this fight). Scott didn't actually react to anything here. Northstar thought the fight would be easy as soon as they took out Storm and Scott tagged him for it.

Bullets won't slow down to taunt Cyclops on the way to his head.

Then, I've got prep tyme. Scott Summers with preparation time is a very big threat, like we've seen while he was fighting against vampires and Norman Osborn. We will explore the environment to find places where to hide and understand where your team could go at first.

Since you've got a good way to find my team position, I'm not going to hide but I will attack your team directly. So at the start of the battle my team will split and we are going to attack your members from different directions.

You might want to illustrate which direction your characters are splitting from relative to your starting place -- my team instantly teleports to the main location courtesy of Blink to set up shop, and I've shown you on the map exactly what I was doing. Just saying you split up shouldn't let you escape Gabriel's sights and, therefore, Alita's sniping. It actually makes your characters more vulnerable to sniping if they're by themselves.

My first move will involve Spider Woman and Cyclops. They are the best at long range and they will use their powers to attack your team and to make them split and to negate their concentration.

How do you know where my team is? I've told you how I know where you are and how I'm delivering shots -- Gabriel. Blink's teleportation should be covered by the foliage in front of the building.

As I said, Cyclops is my best tactic against teleporters since he is fast enough to easily tag Nightcrawler, so he will go after Blink and attack her with his blasts. He will also make them jump to hit many members of your team at the same time. A blast with his visor on is strong enough to hurt WWHulk, so when he will make his blasts jump around he will hit all the members of your team and he may be able to put them down.

An Attack like this will take down many members of your team...
... especially with this strenght(this is WWH, he's much more durable than anyone on your team, and Scott could hurt him)

Cyclops only hit Nightcrawler because A: He was familiar with his tactics and B: Nightcrawler teleported directly next to cyclops where he could see him, which Blink is not doing.

Secondly. None of my team is in melee range -- Scott's beams aren't as accurate or as focused and powerful when he can't really see his opponent/doesn't know where they are.

Thirdly, Blink is actually wearing full vibranium mesh, which is specifically effective against mitigating kinetic force -- which is all cyclops powers are.

Fourthly, and my most favorite, Blink has dealt with people with eye lasers before. Ala:

So she could just redirect the beam to hit Scott...or Typhoid Mary, or Spider Woman considering she knows where they all are thanks to Gabriel. How much more durable are your teammates than World War Hulk, by the way?

Then Spider Woman is going to attack. She has shown to be able to use her powers at 360 degrees and to channel them through metallic objects. So she will use them to attack your team from the sky and to hit them all with a single beam. Her lightnings are said to move at light-speed(it may be and hyperbole) but they are very fast, and unless you can show me the members of your team dodging lightinings then they are going to be hit by her attacks.

Erm, none of your attacks look like they're more than 10 meters away. If you get that close then Netero will deal with you, as I've stated he's guarding the area with a 50 meter in every direction En to detect attacks and intruders -- with full knowledge available, Netero should be well aware of Spider Woman's range and will use his Hyakushiki Kannon to keep her at range and beat her down until she's KO'd or worse. For instance:

Netero's striking range with his Kannon looks to be much farther than Spiderwoman's blast range, and there's absolutely no way Spider-Woman can outmaneuver Netero in a head on fight. If you want to go into further detail on this fight, I shall. Just making sure you're set on having Spider-Woman charge into blaster range to hit my team

I don't know which members of your team are resistant to fire, but I imagine that only the Cyborg woman may resist to fire. So Typhoid Mary will use her pyrokinesis to set all the members of your team on fire. She needs just a thought to do so, and her attacks can't be avoided because she won't throw fire beams or stuff like that, she will just set their bodies on fire using her mental powers. So in a second she will have set on fire all of your team.

Range? Both of these attacks look like near melee range. Also, Alita IS resistant to heat (she's dealt with Plasma before, plus, I mean, her entire body is robotic so fire shouldn't be a big deal unless she sits in it for extended periods of time), but Blink and Netero have full body vibranium mesh, which should defend them against fire fairly well, even if her range is farther than Netero's (I doubt it).

The thing is, if you're charging my team, that should give my team easy shots on them. While Mary might be able to dodge and reflect bullets, how good is she with force blasts? With full field vision that Gabriel gives me, my team should be able to intercept yours as they come to face me and get the first shots. How would Mary deal with one of these to the face:

While Terrific isn't likely to go for the kill out of the gate, with full knowledge he should be greatly aware of her durability and can scale his blasts down to a level that would merely ko/maim her, as he has used a similar blast before without killing a man:

Also, while I've mentioned my other three characters defenses, Terrific's T-Suit gives him some manner of resistance to damage, seen here tanking Digitus's building destroying blasts without much damage(also in this scene, him dodging several laser turret attacks!):

In the very next scan he's fine, though Digitus' hacking gets rid of his t-spheres. I'd have to go get the next scan (I only saved this one because of the laser dodging, lol)

Also, as shown in the tank scan, he CAN make his T-suit full sleeved if he needs to, it just doesn't show off his sick Fairplay tattoos. Given full knowledge, I'd say he would take the precaution against a line of sight pyrokinetic. So, my team seems to outrange, out power, and have fairly solid resistance to this kind of attack.

Daken will come and attack the remaining members of your team. Most of them are taken down by Cyclops and Spider Woman, and Typhoid Mary's fire will reduce most of them to dust, so Daken will attack the remaing ones with his Muramasa Claws. They're said to be able to cut through anything, and they could easily cut through Iron Patriot's armor and through Asgardians, who are very very durable, so he will be able to harm most of your team.

I think I make a fairly strong case as to why most of this shouldn't be true -- for one, my team's durability is nothing to scoff at (I did take two durability perks). Secondly, I've shown Blink redirecting energy beam attacks, which should counter Scott efficiently. Thirdly, my team should have the drop on yours thanks to Gabriel's scouting giving my team constant knowledge of where you're located to hit you with our ranged attacks, while you have no clue where my team opens up.

Next up, Daken's problem is that he is a pure melee fighter. None of my team has this disability -- Netero's construct has 20+ meters of reach and he has the reaction time to deal with Daken easily. Mr. Terrific, well, he flies and shoots blasts that could rend Daken apart and disable him for awhile while he needs to Regen(his durability is not above a futuristic tank's). Alita and Blink are on the roof sniping/porting bees, but Blink's main form of attack is teleportation dagger throws and, well, Alita would stomp Daken in a melee fight. She's massively faster and stronger, has an ability that counters his regeneration (Hertza Haoen), and has combat precognition through Chi and Kizashi. Daken can NOT sneak up on her due to Chi:

Fifteen meter omnidirectional awareness at the molecular level.

Any scan of those masks being able to avoid pheromones? If not Jessica and Daken's pheromones together will also make impossible for your team to concentrate and to focus on their own actions, making difficult for them to react, including Blink who is not going to be able to teleport properly. Even if their masks work against pheromones, then Scott will just have to destroy them using focused blasts.

Certainly. Mr. Terrific in the New 52 fought an opponent named Brainwave. His powers allowed him to manipulate the minds of an entire city:

Despite being unaware of the attack, Mr. Terrific's T-sphere automatically defended against the mental onslaught:

That was without knowing who his opponent was, or how his powers worked -- the Sphere was advanced enough to stop it anyhow when he wasn't even wearing it as a mask. How well do you think Daken and Spider Woman's mind screwery(which require airborne inhaling, anyhow -- Mr Terrific travels through air less dimensional space with his T-Masks sooo) will do when Terrific has full knowledge? No sort of subtle or direct mental attacks like pheromones should affect anyone on my team as they are all equipped with T-Masks, so my team should work at 100% efficiency, doubly so with full knowledge on your abilities and how they work.

Why would Scott know how the masks work? Why would scott be able to disable 4 masks when he doesn't know where my team is? How does he get around Blink redirecting his attacks at his own members? Lot of assumptions are on your part -- I don't think Scott even gets past Alita and Blink attacking him from farther than he can see.

#12 Posted by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: I'm sorry but I'm having some problems with my PC, so I'm not going to be able to post a good reply until tomorrow :)

#13 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: @dredeuced bump and I'm opening the threads for votes on Monday so post accordingly

#14 Edited by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: As for Daken, he was turned to ash by Hellfire before and he was able to grow back, so hitting him on his head won't help a lot, he'll be back soon. His regenerative powers are so strong that he managed to stop Molecule Man's powers. And anyway he can easily avoid bullets.

The problem with your plan, which is really good, is your lack of preparation. Your team has got full knowledge of mine, but he doesn't have any preparation time, so when they will arrive on the battle ground, they will find themselves in a place they have never seen with people they have never seen before, so they will require a bit of time to make a plan like the one you created.

While your team thinks about a plan, mine will use Daken's and Spider Woman's senses to locate yours. They have already been on the battlefield so they will know where your team base is and where they are more likely to move.

Blink is the biggest threat. Cyke should be able to hit her, and he could also clear the battle field with a long range attack.

In the scan against Nightcrawler he's shown to be able to hit him, and he didn't teleport in front of him but he was able to turn his head in time to it him. In the scan you showed of Hyperion and Blink, Hyperion was instead attacking her directly, while Cyke won't: he'll make his optic blasts jump over anything continuosly, making impossible for Blink to teleport in a safe place. In the scan I showed about Northstar, he wasn't able to react to his attacks(he wasn't already running, but he's a speedster whose reflexes are far greater than Blink's). So Blink is out at the very start of the game. Even if she's got a vibranium suit, Scott is enough fine with his powers to attack her on the head, where she shouldn't have any protection.

Jessica will fly over your team and bombard it using her electric powers. They also work at long range and they move very fast. She could also channel them thourgh the ground in fact making impossible for your team to avoid her attacks. They're strong enough to hurt the Hulk and they can be directed in a omni-directional way, this means that every one in your team is going to be hit, and even Blink might find very difficult to avoid her attacks because she will keep producing an omni-directional blast which will hit everything in the environment. She will take out Netero with her bolts, but most of your team will be very damaged by her bolts.

if she channels her powers through the ground your team won't be able to avoid the bolts and they will be unfocused

Long range

Typhoid Mary will then provvide deflecting bullets and granades using her TK. I've shown that she's a bullet timer, and she can stop bullets very easily. She's also shown to be able to move many objects at the same time, so she will be able to redirect your bullets and bombs against your team. Her pyrokinesis has also worked at long distance, and she is able to manipulate fire to create pyrokinetic firestorm and she was also able to set an entire parking on fire, which is pretty big. I don't have a scan now so the scans aren't very clear coz I had to use a camera to make them, sorry :)

Here she manipulates many swords with her TK

Mary will set on fire every one in your team which hasn't got fire resistance. Her powers doesn't just consist in throwing fire, she is able to combuste people from the inside out as I've already shown, so your team won't avoid her attacks, she will just need a thought to take them out. This means that Blink, even is she's a teleporter, will be burnt instantly while she's fighting against Scott.

Daken's muramasa claws can cut through everything.

He is going to fight H2H Alita, cutting through her using the claws, while avoiding her attacks. Strenght doesn't matter, he's fought against the Thing, Ares and the Asgardians as I've already shown and he was fast enough to fight and win against his father, so in a fight he'll be able to avoid her attacks and then hit her hard with his muramasa claws.

This will leave Mister Terrific, already highly damaged by Spider Woman's bolts and Scott's beams, against my team.

Anyway the biggest threat is Blink, because she is a teleporter. I think that Scott can tag her, and Jessica omni-directional bolts can make very difficult for her to teleport around the battle field because the bolts are directed randomly, so Blink won't be able to understand where to teleport to avoid them. Then Mary can always set her on fire using only a thought.

#15 Edited by Dredeuced (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha:

As for Daken, he was turned to ash by Hellfire before and he was able to grow back, so hitting him on his head won't help a lot, he'll be back soon. His regenerative powers are so strong that he managed to stop Molecule Man's powers. And anyway he can easily avoid bullets.

Ok, let's be fair, Dark Avengers Molecule Man was the most jobby jobbing Molecule Man ever. If he needed to he could literally wipe Daken from existence. Traditionally, destroying a Wolverine level regenerator's head will put them out indefinitely.

The problem with your plan, which is really good, is your lack of preparation. Your team has got full knowledge of mine, but he doesn't have any preparation time, so when they will arrive on the battle ground, they will find themselves in a place they have never seen with people they have never seen before, so they will require a bit of time to make a plan like the one you created.

No part of my plan takes a whole lot of preparation to pull off. For one -- it's assumed we know where to go to open the safe. Secondly, giving everyone T-Masks takes a few seconds. During that 5 or so seconds my team can determine to teleport to the building to force you to come to me (basic knowledge). After that everything's pretty self explanatory -- Terrific and Netero guard the perimeter while Alita and Blink use their ranged abilities to harass your team.

It is assumed everyone on your team is familiar with each others members, even if they don't have pre established teamwork, nothing in my plan goes against anyone's sensibilities. Blink is used to using her teleportation to harass/kill, Alita is a world class sniper, Netero himself outright admits he prefers to defend and react to his opponent, and Terrific is a highly logical person.

While your team thinks about a plan, mine will use Daken's and Spider Woman's senses to locate yours. They have already been on the battlefield so they will know where your team base is and where they are more likely to move.

My team automatically has full view of the battlefield thanks to gabriel -- I get around all the advantages of prep thanks to gear and member composition. Full map awareness + teleportation means, unless it takes me several minutes to decide my plan (it doesn't) I can get where ever I want faster than your team. If I had prep time I would do more complex things, as it is I'm just using full knowledge to execute my basic abilities to the best of their ability.

Also, your senses won't give you precisely where I am. You've already said you're making your way to my position so it's entirely irrelevant. I was questioning how you got line of sight.

Blink is the biggest threat. Cyke should be able to hit her, and he could also clear the battle field with a long range attack.

Why? Blink is specifically hiding back out of range and vision of your team. She has no reason to reveal herself considering she can attack you with missile bees + teleportation without needing to see you -- something Cyclops can't really claim.

If Cyclops is standing still, at the start of the fight, blasting away terrain then he's a sitting duck who gets his head shot off by Alita, plain and simple. You can't divide your attention while you're being sniped.

In the scan against Nightcrawler he's shown to be able to hit him, and he didn't teleport in front of him but he was able to turn his head in time to it him. In the scan you showed of Hyperion and Blink, Hyperion was instead attacking her directly, while Cyke won't: he'll make his optic blasts jump over anything continuosly, making impossible for Blink to teleport in a safe place. In the scan I showed about Northstar, he wasn't able to react to his attacks(he wasn't already running, but he's a speedster whose reflexes are far greater than Blink's). So Blink is out at the very start of the game. Even if she's got a vibranium suit, Scott is enough fine with his powers to attack her on the head, where she shouldn't have any protection.

You misrepresent the scan of him tagging Nightcrawler. It has EVERYTHING to do with his familiarity with nightcrawler and nightcrawler teleporting close to him. He has neither of these things with Blink -- why would I have Blink teleport directly next to Scott?

HOW IS CYCLOPS SHOOTING BLINK? He can't see her! I've made it absolutely clearly that Blink is not sitting there letting you shoot her.

The vibranium suit is full body. Reread the perk. It's not a vest -- your head is part of your body. It's basically Black Panther's vibranium suit.

Jessica will fly over your team and bombard it using her electric powers. They also work at long range and they move very fast. She could also channel them thourgh the ground in fact making impossible for your team to avoid her attacks. They're strong enough to hurt the Hulk and they can be directed in a omni-directional way, this means that every one in your team is going to be hit, and even Blink might find very difficult to avoid her attacks because she will keep producing an omni-directional blast which will hit everything in the environment. She will take out Netero with her bolts, but most of your team will be very damaged by her bolts.

if she channels her powers through the ground your team won't be able to avoid the bolts and they will be unfocused

Okay, first question -- how is she channeling her power through the ground if she's also flying? She needs to be in contact with the ground to channel.

Also...Mr Terrific flies, so that wouldn't work. Alita and Blink are also on the roof, as stated. You can't hit my entire team.

And secondly, how are you going to hit the entire environment when none of her blasts seem to range more than 10 meters away from her? With full knowledge, my team is very aware of your range and damage capabilities, you make it sound like Spider-Woman can solo, which is hilarious.

Also, anyone can hurt the hulk by shooting his eyes. X-23's kick tore out his eyes and caused him to wince, so that's not really a feat.

Also, I'd like to point out, anyone with solid agility can dodge Spider Woman's blasts:

And my team has more than solid enough dodging and reflex skills. Terrific can dodge a room full of gunfire from trained military:

Or several laser turrets:

Or a directional energy blast from the hand from a flying opponent, very similar to what Jessica does:

Oh, did I mention, he can also TANK building destroying blasts, so there's seriously no way Jessica is beating him as easily as you say?

Mr Terrific is just as agile a flier and dodger as Jessica, can tank her blasts, and can return with his own blasts that can destroy a futuristic super tank, which seem to be much more powerful than Jessica's. I'd say in a battle of fliers, Terrific has a major edge over her -- especially because he has FULL knowledge of her abilities while Jessica has absolutely no idea what he can do.

Again, if you get within 15 meters of Alita, her Chi kicks in. Reposting the range just for reference:

What is Chi besides molecular awareness? Well:

The ability to read an opponent's actions and concentrate all of one's mental and physical strength to the one point that will be most effective. It comes with Kizashi:

Which is straight up battle precognition. There's absolutely no way you can surprise or hit someone as fast as Alita with her level of precognition that your team has no counter for(Kizashi and Chi are countered by a more powerful Chi, which no one on your team has anything close to) when she ALSO knows all of your powers and abilities.

Back to Netero, Netero probably has the best reaction time of anyone here. Here he is swatting away Neferpitou's blitz:

Now, I know what you're saying -- how fast is Neferpitou's blitz? Well, Neferpitou is significantly faster than anyone in this tournament -- he's actually much faster than Netero himself in straight up speed. Proof:

That is Neferpitou blitzing over 2 miles in a second (Atleast, as long as it takes a human to shout "Get away from me!" as fast as he can -- i'd say a second is accurate). Those two kids who look stunned at what just happened and couldn't even react to it? They're casual bullet timers.

2 miles in a second is 3,219 meters per second, which is mach 9.5 -- significantly faster than nearly any high powered rifle, and Netero could defend against that. Netero is also able to defend f strikes from Neferpitou's king, Mereum, who is significantly faster than Neferpitou:

The King likens breaching his defense to trying to shoot and arrow through a specific needle in a sea of countless needles:

It took literally hundreds of thousands of attempts from a combatant far faster, stronger, and more skilled than anyone here to finally break through Netero's defense:

Netero has top tier reaction time and defense -- the best on my team and I'd wager yours as well. Combine that with his vibranium suit and his Hyakushiki Kannon's ability to attack farther than Jessica has been shown to shoot her stingers and she's got a difficult fight on her hands.

Also, honestly, if you're trying to fly, Blink can just teleport Jessica into the ground -- while I know teleport dropping/dismemberment is not allowed, it's actually the opposite of a teleport drop. She'd just be teleporting you from the air to the ground where she'd take a full volley from Terrific's tank destroying blasts or maybe a Kyuu Jyuu Kyuu no Te from Netero:

Thousands upon thousands of rapid succession hits, in their entirety capable of tearing through dozens of feet of solid rock. I don't think anyone on your team can get up after eating this attack -- either from KO or Death.

Typhoid Mary will then provvide deflecting bullets and granades using her TK. I've shown that she's a bullet timer, and she can stop bullets very easily. She's also shown to be able to move many objects at the same time, so she will be able to redirect your bullets and bombs against your team

You said your team is splitting up -- she can't protect anyone from bullets. Also, why wouldn't Alita's bullets destroy her sword? Alita's gun destroys an entire armored vehicle in a single shot, what chance does Mary's sword have? (Correct me if it's adamantium or not) Even then, Alita is aware of Mary's capabilities and will shoot other members if her bullets wouldn't be able to destroy her sword.

Mary's telekinesis is limited. She wouldn't be able to throw the bees back as far as Blink can teleport them. They also track on their target so as soon as she throws them they'd...fly back at her or your other members.

Alita would also be letting Arachnos loose on the battle field. What are those?

Tiny spiders that hide and blow up where you least expect them. As your team makes their way to mine, they'll be blown to bits by these. How powerful is the explosion? Well:

Pretty powerful explosions.

As stated, Alita can blow them up wherever she pleases through remote command(or terrific could, they're all patched into Alita's Tiphares system via T-Masks), so there's no need for the trip wires to be there to give them away due to your team's presumably keen eyesight (though if you're trying to fire on me I'm not sure how focused you would be on Booby Traps you have no idea are there.

Mary will set on fire every one in your team which hasn't got fire resistance. Her powers doesn't just consist in throwing fire, she is able to combuste people from the inside out as I've already shown, so your team won't avoid her attacks, she will just need a thought to take them out. This means that Blink, even is she's a teleporter, will be burnt instantly while she's fighting against Scott.

Okay so this is like the fifth time you said Blink is fighting Scott. Blink isn't fighting anyone, what are you talking about? Blink is redirect your attacks and teleporting explosives DIRECTLY NEXT to your team at multiple angles from hiding. Mary doesn't even know where Blink is -- no one on your team actually knows EXACTLY where my team is except maybe Spider Woman due to her flight -- but she couldn't relay that to your team if she's busy shooting her blasts from the sky, especially after you've already said your team splits up.

I've also detailed how everyone on my team has resistance. Alita's a cyborg who's inherently resistant to heat, Netero and Blink have full body Vibranium Mesh, and Terrific's tanked worst blasts in his day.

I cannot assume Mary's range is what you say until you show it. For all I know she set a bunch of trees that were within 10 meters of her on fire and it spread throughout the park. If you can show her actually blasting the entire park then things may change. Until then I'm operating under what you've shown me -- 10 meters or less range which is much shorter than everyone on my team.

Daken's muramasa claws can cut through everything.

He is going to fight H2H Alita, cutting through her using the claws, while avoiding her attacks. Strenght doesn't matter, he's fought against the Thing, Ares and the Asgardians as I've already shown and he was fast enough to fight and win against his father, so in a fight he'll be able to avoid her attacks and then hit her hard with his muramasa claws.

Daken's muramasa can't cut through EVERYTHING, IIRC -- they can't cut through adamantium level metal. That aside, Daken has NO counter for Alita's combat precognition. He has NO way of reaching her (On the roof of a multi story building). He's SIGNIFICANTLY slower than her, shown here capable of reacting and swinging her weapon faster than mach 3:

To note -- high powered modern water jet cutters fire at Mach 3 speeds and it's outright stated that she moves her weapon faster than that here.

How is Daken going to beat someone who's stronger, faster, a MUCH better fighter ( can go into further detail with this one), who has combat precognition, and is not being screwed with by his Pheromones (Which is how he beats most of his opponents)? I mean, outmaneuvering Thing is great, but Thing is big and slow -- Alita is much, much faster and smaller, and can literally read his mind before he performs an action. If Daken could even somehow get past Netero and Terrific, make it to the roof, and get into melee range against Alita, Alita would utterly, mercilessly stomp him in a melee fight.

This will leave Mister Terrific, already highly damaged by Spider Woman's bolts and Scott's beams, against my team.

So, why isn't your team highly damaged or dead from my ranged attacks? Mr. Terrific can match Scott's blasting strength and has the advantage of greater agility and flying to dodge, as well as the the knowledge given to him by the perk AS WELL as permanent knowledge of your team's location thanks to Gabriel. Why isn't Scott dead from having his head shot off his shoulders from an angle he didn't know Alita was at? Why isn't he dead from having a Missile Bee teleport directly ontop of his head and exploding? This goes for Daken and Mary, too. Spider Woman has spider sense so I can see her avoiding a lot of the attacks, but the rest of your team doesn't.

Your team also isn't nearly as durable as mine thanks to Terrific's T-Suit, 2 Vibranium Meshes, and Alita's increased durability as a cyborg. None of your team has any armor to speak of and only Spider Woman seems to have anything resembling superhuman durability beyond peak human. I know Daken can regen, but that usually puts him out of the fight for a few seconds to a minute (depending on the damage) while he does regenerate.

Anyway the biggest threat is Blink, because she is a teleporter. I think that Scott can tag her, and Jessica omni-directional bolts can make very difficult for her to teleport around the battle field because the bolts are directed randomly, so Blink won't be able to understand where to teleport to avoid them. Then Mary can always set her on fire using only a thought.

I'm kind of tired of having to reiterate myself. Blink is not teleporting around the battlefield unless she's in danger, and she's most definitely not teleporting directly next to your team to let you shoot her like you seem to think she will. She's staying at a safe place, teleporting explosives directly on top of your team to maim/kill them. Mary can't set stuff on fire if she doesn't know where it is, either.

Blink also has the massive advantage of knowing where your entire team is at all times thanks to T-Mask + Gabriel connection, so it's not like you can surprise her, either.

#16 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: For some reason I didn't see dredeuced replied(this happened also on another tourney yesterday, I guess Comicvine hates me lol), can I answer to his last reply or now that votes are opened I can't?

EDIT: I have to admit that this isn't my best debate and that I don't have a way to counter against Blink's teleportation, so I'm going to surrender in this tourney.

@dredeuced: I was really happy to debate against you, you did a great job here :)

#18 Posted by Dredeuced (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@sovereign91001: For some reason I didn't see dredeuced replied(this happened also on another tourney yesterday, I guess Comicvine hates me lol), can I answer to his last reply or now that votes are opened I can't?

EDIT: I have to admit that this isn't my best debate and that I don't have a way to counter against Blink's teleportation, so I'm going to surrender in this tourney.

@dredeuced: I was really happy to debate against you, you did a great job here :)

I wouldn't mind if you still wanted to put up an argument, no one's voted yet, but if you're sure about surrendering I won't say I'll lose sleep over it :P

#19 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: You can put up a final argument if you wish or you can concede Just let me know what you want to do

#20 Posted by Veitha (3069 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: nah, as I said I think that he did a better debate, he wins :)

#21 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

This was a good read. My vote goes to Dredeuced. Veitha did a great job though.

#22 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced You win as Veitha withdrew. Congrats you get 5th pick of the rewards.