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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Treasure Island

Starting distance 2.5 miles

Time Limit: N/A

Objectives: Each team is given a key card that one member must keep on their person at all times. The card contains half the code to an impenetrable/indestructible safe located in the middle of an aircraft hangar. In order to advance to the next round all members of the opposing team must be eliminated and their key card retrieved. Once both objectives are complete and the safe is opened Your team will find a Mother Box that will boomtube them to their next location and a reward for their efforts.

Rules: Winner by K.O., Death or Incap.

For anyone that has managed to sneak a character in who has feats above level, those feats will not be applicable.

All character's are in character, with standard gear and have basic knowledge unless they have prior knowledge.

Team 1 is Blue, Team 2 is Red, Aircraft Hangar is yellow.

The first team to finish their debate and tag me get's first pick of the rewards for round 2.

You may select 1 Team Perk and 2 Individual Perks (for two different characters.)

Team Perks

Prep Time: Gives your team three hours to make a plan and explore the battlefield beforehand, the battlefield cannot be altered and no additional gear or knowledge can be gained.

Full Knowledge: You're granted full knowledge of your opponents gear, powers, weaknesses etc.

Telepathic Team Link: Your team is linked together telepathically.

Bloodlusted: Your team will kill without hesitation or remorse, their mental states and emotional states remain in character.

The Goodie Bag: Grants each of your team members: A personal wrist mounted radar unit, wireless communicator earwig, gas masks, grenades,(1 flash bang, 1 smoke, 1 teargas) and high tech goggles (10x zoom HD optics, X-ray, Night vision)

Why can’t we be friends? : Your team all cooperates and will work together as if all existing personality clashes/enmity and bad blood didn’t exist.

Give me some Backup! : Grants your team complete control of an 4 man squad of S.H.I.E.L.D Agents outfitted in Civil War style Cape-Killer armor (includes gas masks, hover discs, com units, tranquilizer darts and paralyzer lasers)

Individual Perks

Power Amp: Raises one of your character's strength by 5 tons

Defense Amp: Adds a full body coating of vibranium mesh weave armor to your character’s costume/outfit.

Speed Amp: Raises your characters reflexes by Batman levels.

Gear up: One member of your team can add a piece of non-standard gear to their arsenal that they have used previously provided the equipment doesn't put them over the tournament levels

Blades and bullets: You may turn your character’s bullets/thrown weapons/arrows into adamantium. Or your character’s hand held weapon can be transformed into an Adamantium version of itself.

Ninja: Completely silence’s your character’s movement, heart beat and breathing (any other noise they make can be heard normally)

Bag O' Grenades: Grants your character 2 electric shock, 2 E.M.P, 2 White Phosphorus , 2 Frag Grenades

Teams

@beatboks1

Justice

Liberty Belle ( Libby Lawrence )

Phantom Lady ( Sandra Knight)

Stealth

@cadencev2

#2 Posted by HigorM (3576 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1

@cadencev2: For the record my perks will be

Team perk

The Goodie Bag: Grants each of your team members: A personal wrist mounted radar unit, wireless communicator earwig, gas masks, grenades,(1 flash bang, 1 smoke, 1 teargas) and high tech goggles (10x zoom HD optics, X-ray, Night vision)

1st individual perk

Defense Amp: Adds a full body coating of vibranium mesh weave armor to your character’s costume/outfit.

For Phantom lady

2nd individual perk

Power Amp: Raises one of your character's strength by 5 tons

Also for PL

I myself will take....

Team Perk: Full Knowledge.

Individual Perks: Power Amp to both Space Marines.

#4 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 To kick it of with the benefit of Full Knowledge on your team.

I have 3 Genius Tacticians on my Team.

Kurama

Kurama is the infamous Fox Demon of the Demon Planes. He is the master Thief and a proven record of beating superior foes. These foes have rarely any weakness and yet Kurama always finds a way to win.

Like Genbu.

Genbu is a rock Demon who is for all intents invincible. Yet Kurama in minuets finds his one and only weakness.

Or using his intellect to beat Taboo and Game Master. No Fighting at all, Kurama out smarts and disects a win base on there powers.

Taboo

Kurama knows he cannot harm or force Taboo to do anything. All he can do is propose a battle of wits against the second smartest student in the schools. Kurama being the first smartest, BAMSKY. Basically Kurama knew under the challenge he would be able to steal the key and unnerve Taboo enough to get the win.

Game Master

Game Master is the hardest Video Game in Japan base on skills, reaction, memory, and intellect games. This kid memorize the Game Patterns and Glitches. Kurama however beaten the game (A Hard feat according to gamers) before. Challenging the child to a game of intellect and memory he converses, knowing the weakness that the kid did not even knew he had using his power. This result in the kid realizing he will die and Kurama being the one to kill him through the puzzle game.

He is not above slaying a child.

Another good feat is how easy he can study a opponent and find a way to win. In the case of Kusaru, he knew in every way he was outclass and ran many training scenarios to find a counter.

The only draw back to Kusaru was the fact Kusaru intentionally mislead Kurama with the idea he had to touch something to blow it up. A Tactic that worked fine at first, till Kurama in mid battle found a counter like he always does.

Titus

Titus is the second Captain of the Ultramarines Second Company. A Prestigious Company. Titus with 2 other Space Marines and rag tag band of Guradsmen has defeated over 1 million Ork Waaagh and invading Chaos Marines and Demon armies. He figures how to save the day and bring down every target. He does all this with the wisdom of the Codex Astartes.

Space Marines study the Adeptus Astartes. It is the ultimate Guide of war including how to deal with special power people/beings like demons, psychics, and aliens.

Add to this titus has been fighting and battling armies for over 200+ years.

Raclaw

Raclaw was made Leader of the Sword Brethren. Like Titus he leads men to war on a daily basis and has memories the Codex Astartes as well like all space Marines.

Now real quick 90% of Space Marine Chapters (Each Chapter has 1000 Marines) are Identical in formation and Units. However Black Templar are very different in units and positions as well consisting over 6000 Marines. Just not to confuse.

Raclaw has Face all kinds of armies from the Super speed and Psychic Eldar.

Led a Brethren Company and beaten the Uber High Tech, Molecule Destroying Weapons, Time and Space Bending, Necrons. (Major Feat)

He also battle Chaos in all its forms. He has fought the most unusual and best in the Warhammer 40K Universe.Nothing on your team is nothing he has not seen or been up against in his 300+ years of Combat.

The benefit here for me is that I know your strengths, powers, and weakness. While Yuske is very talented fighter, the benefit of 3 Combat Geniuses already weigh this in my favor.

#5 Edited by dondave (34442 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

#6 Posted by Lvenger (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadence vs beatboks? Oh this should be good!

#7 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 For your convenience and the Viners. Basics on my team.

Im just going to spiel the basics on the Space Marines. Its long and worth it for those who do not know.

Powers and Abilities

Space Marines are the Super Human Soldiers of the Imperium known as the Adeptus Astartes. They are implanted with Organs as children to give them super abilities.

Mucranoid - Protects against the Vacuum of Space and Extreme Temperatures.

Larraman's Organ - Instant Scarring to prevent any blood loss and also helps heal major wounds easy.

Omophagea - Allows access to recent memories through eating of the flesh.

Occulobe - Super Enhance Eyesight.

Secondary Heart - Allows more Stamina and act as a back up.

Biscopea - Allows Strength of up to 2 tons.

Ollitic Kidney - Filters Poisons and Gasses that might harm a Space Marine.

Preomnor - Allows to digest straight Poisons.

Interface - Allows the link up with Power Armour.

Haemastamen - Efficient Blood that allows more Stamina.

Multi Lung - A third lung that allows a Marine to Breath Poisons and even Water.

Lyman's Ear - Allows Sharper Hearing, Filtering of Sounds, and near immunity to Disorientation

Sus-en Membrane - Allow the Marine to enter Hibernation for Centuries.

.Betcher's Gland - Acidic and Poisonous Spit.

Ossmodula - Steel like bones that can heal fast and Fused Rib Cage.

Neuroglottis - Grants Smell like a tracking dog, and taste the toxicity and nutritious content of something.

Catalepsean Node - Marines can stay awake for days with no hindrance.

Progenoids - Also known as Gene Seed allows these Organs to be developed and accepted, and are harvested from Space Marines to make more Space Marines.

Strength

On top of this the Power Armour all Space Marines Wear increase Strength by %20.

Strength of a Space Marine

"starting" Marine can carry 1,350 kg, lift 2,700 kg, and push 5,400 kg."

Deathwatch RPG, Page 208

However this is a starting Marine. Veterans are condition and far stronger reaching easier 5 tons.

As proven here of the 1st Captain Abaddon overpowering Loken with ease.

Speed

All space Marines see in slow motion as well with Bullet Time Reflexes and Reaction Speeds.

Scan 1: Speed in Terminator Armour. A heavier and much Slower Armour. Yet he is ahead in the battle with every move.

Scan 2; Fist in Blurs in the same said Armour.

Scan 3: Slapping a Bolt away and Firing Back.

Scan 4: Using a Power Weapon to swat 3 Bolts out of the air.

Durability

Space Marines as seen with their Organs are very durable beings. with the Power Armour its easy Luke Cage durability.

Not only Power Armour is the Iron Halo. Generates a Force Field that can tank serious damage before burning out and needing 15 to 20 seconds to recharge.

Skip to 3:45

Titus with his Iron Halo and Power Armour survives the massive energy blast of the Warp power source.

Skip to 5:20

Titus tanks another one of those Energy Blast and Free Fall from 3 miles.

As seen very Durable.

Power Armour Feats:

Originally Posted by Nightbringer, page 161

Heavy autocannon fire sprayed the roof of the building, churning up its pebbled surface and shredding human flesh. The men who had been awaiting rescue in the flyers were the first to die, ripped apart in seconds by the heavy calibre, armour piercing shells. Vedden screamed as an autocannon shell clipped him, instantly shearing his leg from his body in midthigh. He collapsed, dragging the girl to the ground with him.

The Ultramarines scattered, firing at the ornithopters, but their bolter rounds were ineffective against the armoured undersides of the gunships.

Learchus sprinted forward, diving to the ground to gather the girl in his arms and rolling on top of her as the ornithopter's shells ripped towards her. He supported his weight on his elbows so as not to crush the girl and felt the powerful impacts hammer into his backplate. He offered a small prayer of thanks to his armour for standing firm against the traitorous fire.

Originally Posted by Horus Rising, pgs. 232-233

Giant forks of lightning, savage and yellow-white phosphorescent, were searing down into the open space, explosively scorching the earth. Though each fork only existed for a nanosecond, they seemed solid and real, like fundamental, physical structures, like upturned, thorny trees. Three Astartes, including Lucius, were struck. Secure in their Mark IV plate, they shrugged off the massive, detonating impacts and laughed as aftershock electrical blooms crackled like garlands of blue wire around their armour for a few seconds.

[...]

The storm above grew still more ferocious. Five more men were struck. One of them, Ulzoras, was actually knocked off his feet. They saw fused, glassy craters in the ground where lighting had earthed with the force of penetrator missiles.

As seen its very durable indeed.

Skill and Weapons

The standard Equipement of Raclaw is Auspex, Bolter, and Chain Sword. For Titus it is the Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Frag Grenades, Bolter, Power weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Gun, and Stalker Bolter.

The Mighty Bolter.

Adamantium/Ceramic Chain Sword.

Stalker Bolter and Melta Gun.

The Power Weapon.

Plasma Pistol which is used in CC with the Power Weapon.

Jump Pack.

Auspex.

Also both marines have Heat Vision and Combat readouts in their Helmets.

A quick Video of Space Marines in Battle.

Now that is out of the way, yeeesh....

As soon as the match starts, my guys will make they way together to the Objective. My whole team will be using Arua Sense like Kurama and Yuske have to sense your team getting within 100 feet.

Like wise Raclaw with the Auspex Scanner can track up to a mile. Since this base is empty I Assume, I should keep track of you. Not to mention the Super Hearing and Smell of my Marines and Heat Vision activated knowing your team likes to sneak around.

From here it is the simple matter of taking up positions and waiting.

Taking position on this roof top would give me a excellent view since your team has no real range attacks. I shout not only keep track of you, but spot you easy.

Then I can start using the Stalker Bolter to pick ya off with Mach 2 Admantium Tip Exploding shells.

#8 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Some reason videos do not upload with a spoiler block. Sucks I have to Post all that nonsense and clog the thread over a Spoiler Block Glitch.

#9 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7181 posts) - - Show Bio

Some reason videos do not upload with a spoiler block. Sucks I have to Post all that nonsense and clog the thread over a Spoiler Block Glitch.

I had that same problem & didn't think of reporting that. Maybe someone should.

#10 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

Some reason videos do not upload with a spoiler block. Sucks I have to Post all that nonsense and clog the thread over a Spoiler Block Glitch.

I had that same problem & didn't think of reporting that. Maybe someone should.

Who do we call?

#11 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7181 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity said:

@cadencev2 said:

Some reason videos do not upload with a spoiler block. Sucks I have to Post all that nonsense and clog the thread over a Spoiler Block Glitch.

I had that same problem & didn't think of reporting that. Maybe someone should.

Who do we call?

Bug Reporting

#12 Edited by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

Well this should be a piece of cake (for cadence).

First of all, since Sovereign said in set up thread the individual perks can't be for the same character then I guess drop defense amp.

To start with Phantom Lady will be my key holder. she will remain completely invisible so as to evade detection. Internalizing her dark light ray makes her so and has worked on even those with enhanced vision.

This will further be aided by Stealth who will absorb or deflect all sound around my team meaning no matter how good your teams hearing is you can't hear what isn't there to be heard. In the early issues of L.E.G.I.O.N her ability to absorb sound was so great that even the advanced tech of the Coluan computer tyrants could not detect Dox and co as they entered their base.

Added to which Liberty Belle will be using her sonic vibration waves to generate some sound away from my team while Justice uses his sword had to create some heat in the same area's as Belle's sound.

Getting a bead on my teams position will be almost impossible. Especially with Phantom Lady also absorbing light from around them to further their stealth.

#13 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Since you drop the defense perk, you need to pick up another one right? After you pick your perk, I will continue with the next phase.

#14 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

I wont take another perk.

#15 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Really? OK. If you change your mind in a rebuttal, just pick one.

I guess the best thing to point out is that Space Marines no a diversion or feint when they see one.

This is Raclaw right here judging the battle.

So they will fully expect Sound to be useless, they will know the Heat Trail in large areas to be misdirection.

Since Raclaw is a Close Combat Specialist (Even by Marine standards) Titus will no doubt hand him the Melta Gun. Then Raclaw, Yuske, and Kurama will go hunting on foot with Titus using his Jump Pack to jump roof to roof with his Stalker Bolter covering them. Kurama will drink his Special Brew, within 2 Minuets he will turn into Yoko the Fox Demon and find you.

Yoko.

I have many ways of detecting your team.

1) 200 feet Spirit Sense (Yuske, Kurama)

2) Smell (Titus, Raclaw, and Kurama)

3) Body Heat (Prey mode on SM Helmets)

4) Motion Sensor (Auspex)

5) Super Human Eye Sight (Titus, Raclaw)

6) Locate through Plant Life (Kurama as Yoko)

All this will locate your team. Since I have the High Ground and Expert Sniper in Titus whos Vox Link (Power Armour Transmitters) to Raclaw will keep each other informed.

Once I found your team Yoko will grow his infamous Plant.

Read Right to Left btw.

This Demon Plant is Mach 2 easy as it keeps up with mutiple mach speed Kasuru. Ontop of this it must be at least 1 ton strong to crush Kasuru and make him spit blood as well the Planet rips through Granite with ease.

This Plant will be hell from the outset. From there Yoko stands back and lets Titus fire his Mach 2 Adamntium Tip Explosive Stalker Bolter.

Raclaw will open up with his 20 foot reach Melta Gun that burns on a molecule Level.

Yuske will fire 1 shot of his Spirit Shot Gun.

Then Yoko can throw his mach speed Throwing Knife like Roses.

This assault will be a lot for your team as my whole team his Mach 2 in Combat Speeds and Perception. Add in the Buff Man Eating Plant right behind your team, then all the fire power from the front of my team, will be a classic Hammer and Anvil scenario.

The only person who stands a chance is Justice and even then that might not be enough as I have no doubt the Melta Gun and Yuske Spirit Gun can end him.

#16 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I guess the best thing to point out is that Space Marines no a diversion or feint when they see one.

Let's face it you and I both know suspecting a diversion and completely ignoring it are two completely different things. You might prepare for the chance that it's a diversion but not committing some resources to protecting from it are a suicidal choice that NO experienced military tactician would make. No in the field commander isn't going to do something to cover his back from a potential flanking no matter how much he distrusts the intel. Hell I never trusted 80% of intel given me while in the field but I'd never completely disregard it just in case. There is nothing to stop me creating a couple of multiple such diversions all of which are going to take your team time to check out and eliminate as threat.

1) 200 feet Spirit Sense (Yuske, Kurama)

2) Smell (Titus, Raclaw, and Kurama)

3) Body Heat (Prey mode on SM Helmets)

4) Motion Sensor (Auspex)

5) Super Human Eye Sight (Titus, Raclaw)

6) Locate through Plant Life (Kurama as Yoko)

Let's face facts. motion sensor is still light or vibration and I have that covered with Belle's sonic vibrational waves and PL's dark light projector. body heat is just infra red, a band of light radiation so again covered to a degree by dark light projector, as is human eye sight. Spirit sense is basically the same as what Justice has with his ability to read the soul aura of people so hardly an advantage for your team. The only things here that are not countered are plant life ( which frankly looking at the battle field I really don't see a hell of a lot to make use of, especially around where my team starts), and smell which let's face it isn't very reliable. It might let you know that we're around somewhere but as it's very dependent on wind ( which is affected by heat- and I think I've already demonstrated Justice can produce plenty) .

Now you claim to have the high ground to advantage you for locating my team. As you would have seen in the scans of Liberty Belle in my last post, she stopped the actual Liberty Belle from falling on her and threw it at Baron Blitzcreig with her sonic waves. Imagine how much further those sonic waves could say project a human up. Added to which Justice can use his shields to give said human a platform to stand on as high as I'd like. Just like he uses for steps here v

NOw the perfect team member to do all this with would be Phantom Lady with her ray internalized for complete invisibility. Using all the sensors etc of our team perk (A personal wrist mounted radar unit, wireless communicator earwig, and high tech goggles (10x zoom HD optics, X-ray, Night vision) getting the exact location and movements of your team will not be hard.

Now considering that with Belle's sonic vibration waves and Justice's shield hand, I can shield my team on at least a 200 degree angle

Getting any sort of strike on my team wont be easy.

Also using the shields and vibration waves I can throw smoke bombs from my team perk a LOT further than they would normally be thrown. This would make it even easier to make the feint work. Not to mention that those very things would actually make actual motion, so even if someone had some miraculous motion detector that actually detected movement without the use of sound, light or vibration there would be actual movement to detect with the feint as well.

Now to the actual battle.

First I have Stealth who is physically enhanced. Faster Stronger and far more agile than peak human. She has a healing factor that is pretty impressive. She's used to fighting a room full of people at once and courtesy of her HF, speed and agility was actually able to fight Lobo as a delaying tactic. She lost but she lasted several pages and that against a guy who can take down Superman.

Then we have Justice who is actually the best warrior of his dimension. Who courtesy of his aura reading can even know an opponents intent or motivation etc.

This assault will be a lot for your team as my whole team his Mach 2 in Combat Speeds and Perception. Add in the Buff Man Eating Plant right behind your team, then all the fire power from the front of my team, will be a classic Hammer and Anvil scenario.

Are you shitting me with this speed thing??

Did you not see my first scans. L' Belle tagged Der Zyklon. That's a speedster in the League of Jay Garrick and Johnny Quick. Mach 2 isn't squat. In Young Justice she was taking on "son's or Dawn" (Arn Munro power level) quite comfortably .

With the leadership of Liberty Belle who was the Chairwoman of the biggest hero group ever on the planet. She led a team of over 60 heroes.

#17 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Let's face it you and I both know suspecting a diversion and completely ignoring it are two completely different things. You might prepare for the chance that it's a diversion but not committing some resources to protecting from it are a suicidal choice that NO experienced military tactician would make. No in the field commander isn't going to do something to cover his back from a potential flanking no matter how much he distrusts the intel. Hell I never trusted 80% of intel given me while in the field but I'd never completely disregard it just in case. There is nothing to stop me creating a couple of multiple such diversions all of which are going to take your team time to check out and eliminate as threat.

All true. However it would be to dangerous to send anyone on there own. Also I realize the superior methods of detection and lack of range firepower on your team from most of your members. So my best rout is have Titus with the Jump Pack and Stalker Bolter cover the area a little ways behind the main team on the ground from the roof tops.

Let's face facts. motion sensor is still light or vibration and I have that covered with Belle's sonic vibrational waves and PL's dark light projector. body heat is just infra red, a band of light radiation so again covered to a degree by dark light projector, as is human eye sight. Spirit sense is basically the same as what Justice has with his ability to read the soul aura of people so hardly an advantage for your team. The only things here that are not countered are plant life ( which frankly looking at the battle field I really don't see a hell of a lot to make use of, especially around where my team starts), and smell which let's face it isn't very reliable. It might let you know that we're around somewhere but as it's very dependent on wind ( which is affected by heat- and I think I've already demonstrated Justice can produce plenty) .

Oh yeah Justice, However I never seen him hiding others Auras before. I should detect him that way as he can vice versa. Plant Life may no be a game changer in detection lol. Smell is pretty acute as Wolverine shows in his feats. If I can smell a general area out, I should be able to have Titus look up and down that area as well Raclaw taking the corners till I can pin point you with Aura Sense.

Now you claim to have the high ground to advantage you for locating my team. As you would have seen in the scans of Liberty Belle in my last post, she stopped the actual Liberty Belle from falling on her and threw it at Baron Blitzcreig with her sonic waves. Imagine how much further those sonic waves could say project a human up. Added to which Justice can use his shields to give said human a platform to stand on as high as I'd like. Just like he uses for steps here.

OK.

NOw the perfect team member to do all this with would be Phantom Lady with her ray internalized for complete invisibility. Using all the sensors etc of our team perk (A personal wrist mounted radar unit, wireless communicator earwig, and high tech goggles (10x zoom HD optics, X-ray, Night vision) getting the exact location and movements of your team will not be hard.

Now considering that with Belle's sonic vibration waves and Justice's shield hand, I can shield my team on at least a 200 degree angle

Getting any sort of strike on my team wont be easy.

All Phantom Lady is doing is limiting my eye sight which is not a disadvantage for my team at all. Yuske can and has fought in pitch blackness before.

As seen vs Kibano, a very powerful World Martial Artist, Yuske Durability and Sly skills can battle in absolute Blackness. This was also before Spirit sensing that Genkai Teaches him after this ordeal.

Also Kurama regulary battles in no visibility situations and can easy use Smell to Compensate.

Yoko also was accurately able to throw this Knife like Flower with dust cloud in his face.

Added to this as Yoko using the Demon Plant will also cause mass Havoc for your team as well.

Raclaw has Prey Sight (Heat Vision) which will not be affected at all.

Titus as well will be away with Prey Sight to Sniper you.

Finally blinding the area I am in will not help vs the Giant Demon Plant behind your team, Titus Stalker Bolter (who base on dossiers will be aiming for Phantom Lady first and formost)

Also using the shields and vibration waves I can throw smoke bombs from my team perk a LOT further than they would normally be thrown. This would make it even easier to make the feint work. Not to mention that those very things would actually make actual motion, so even if someone had some miraculous motion detector that actually detected movement without the use of sound, light or vibration there would be actual movement to detect with the feint as well.

I would rely on Prey Sight, Spirit Detection, and Smell.

Now to the actual battle.

First I have Stealth who is physically enhanced. Faster Stronger and far more agile than peak human. She has a healing factor that is pretty impressive. She's used to fighting a room full of people at once and courtesy of her HF, speed and agility was actually able to fight Lobo as a delaying tactic. She lost but she lasted several pages and that against a guy who can take down Superman.

Then we have Justice who is actually the best warrior of his dimension. Who courtesy of his aura reading can even know an opponents intent or motivation etc.

However how fast can he read and react to those?

Hiei is Mach 3.5 and Yuske can react to that.

Scan 1: Yuske Earliest Speed was Blurs of Movement.

Scan 2: Yuske Speed Blitz Suzaka who is equal to Hiei.

Scan 3: Yuske easily out moves Bullets.

Scan 4-5 Yuske speed blitz a demon who is also faster than bullets.

Kurama moves as fast as he keeps up with Yuske.

The space Marines see Mach 2 Bolters in speed as well, and moved fast enough to counter them.

I think I have the speedsters here all on Spidey Level.

Are you shitting me with this speed thing??

Did you not see my first scans. L' Belle tagged Der Zyklon. That's a speedster in the League of Jay Garrick and Johnny Quick. Mach 2 isn't squat. In Young Justice she was taking on "son's or Dawn" (Arn Munro power level) quite comfortably .

She is not moving no faster than Spider Man as per rules. I seen Deathstroke tag Flash's twice. I seen Hulk tag Quicksilver as well Cyclopes. Point is can she avoid the accurate Mach 2 Bolter Shells, Flame Thrower like AOE of a Melta Gun, Spirit Shot Gun, Rose Attacks of Yoko, and the Mach 2 Demon Plant that rips up chunks of granite at the same time?

I think not. It is too much Attacks and AOE at once. Your not faster than Spider Man regardless tagging other speedsters, who in turn are tagged all the time due to plot.

With the leadership of Liberty Belle who was the Chairwoman of the biggest hero group ever on the planet. She led a team of over 60 heroes.

Thats neat. I rate higher tho 2 Space Marine who lead over 100s of Super Human Soldiers and Hundreds of Thousands of Imperial Guard against beings and forces that destroy planets on a daily basis.

She is outgun in experience, tactics (My guys have memorize the Adeptus Astertes), and the over all super human quicker thinking of my 2 Space Marine Commanders.

#18 Edited by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

All true. However it would be to dangerous to send anyone on there own. Also I realize the superior methods of detection and lack of range firepower on your team from most of your members. So my best rout is have Titus with the Jump Pack and Stalker Bolter cover the area a little ways behind the main team on the ground from the roof tops.

So we're agreed, you may suspect a feint ( and let's face it with full knowledge of this team you should) but even so you would have to act on the information of the feint as well. You would have to totally rule it out, which will take time and resources. I agree you wouldn't send someone alone, that was my point. Your team would have to check out all possibilities. There's always the chance that the "feint" isn't the feint but the real action.

Oh yeah Justice, However I never seen him hiding others Auras before. I should detect him that way as he can vice versa. Plant Life may no be a game changer in detection lol. Smell is pretty acute as Wolverine shows in his feats. If I can smell a general area out, I should be able to have Titus look up and down that area as well Raclaw taking the corners till I can pin point you with Aura Sense.

Oh I didn't mean he could hide them, just as you say that he has the same ability possibly to a greater degree ( but that is only arguable) so it's not an advantage for either of us. Smell can really only give you a vague direction and it can be misleading depending on the wind. Plus let's face it hunters defeat smells all the time by simply rubbing mud etc all over them. I can make my team smell like the very terrain without too much trouble, and it's a reasonable precaution to take given I don't know who I'm facing but should have a reasonable expectation of the powersets that exist on this shared world. Though I would say at the very least he can certainly hide himself as his power draws it's energy from his aura which would definitely reduce his visible presence. That would mean you would have reason to believe that the feint was in fact a flanking move and commit accordingly. In short doing so would mean you are out numbered when we strike.

All Phantom Lady is doing is limiting my eye sight which is not a disadvantage for my team at all. Yuske can and has fought in pitch blackness before

As has PL. Let's not forget that her dark light ray when internalized can make her completely invisible. Seeing in the dark comes down to infra red and ultra violet rays which are a part of the light spectrum but still present in the dark. If PL could make herself invisible to Vulcan "son of Fire" in All Star Squadron 26" even with his heat detection it's a pretty safe bet that her invisibility will also cover those who can see in darkness.

As seen vs Kibano, a very powerful World Martial Artist, Yuske Durability and Sly skills can battle in absolute Blackness. This was also before Spirit sensing that Genkai Teaches him after this ordeal.

Again all these senses don't exceed anything on my team especially with the gear of out perk. Basically I can know your EXACT position from the outset and monitor your movement from there with wrist mounted radar. With my capability to feint I can misdirect in a minor way your team and know IMMEDIATELY if it hasn't worked and adjust accordingly. If you don't react to my set ups I'll be certain of other modes of tracking and be looking for ways to block.

Raclaw has Prey Sight (Heat Vision) which will not be affected at all.

So did Vulcan and it affected him.

Scan 1: Yuske Earliest Speed was Blurs of Movement.

Scan 2: Yuske Speed Blitz Suzaka who is equal to Hiei.

Scan 3: Yuske easily out moves Bullets.

Scan 4-5 Yuske speed blitz a demon who is also faster than bullets.

Kurama moves as fast as he keeps up with Yuske.

The space Marines see Mach 2 Bolters in speed as well, and moved fast enough to counter them.

All I'm going to do is quote your own reply.

She is not moving no faster than Spider Man as per rules.

So are your guy's "faster than the rules?? Liberty belle's link with the actual bell gives her adrenaline powers that give her slightly above peak strength, speed and agility. She would be close to Spidey level speed so she would easily react to anyone in this tourney. As I said she fought several members of Hugo Danner's ( Arn Munro's father) son's of Dawn. Arn was created to be the GA Superman replacement after COIE with the difference that his powers never increased above Action #1 levels. Speed wise he was be a little above Spidey ( Bullets weren't so fast back then and IIRC he couldn't out race them), and the Son's of dawn were slightly below him.

Point is can she avoid the accurate Mach 2 Bolter Shells, Flame Thrower like AOE of a Melta Gun, Spirit Shot Gun, Rose Attacks of Yoko, and the Mach 2 Demon Plant that rips up chunks of granite at the same time?

Why would I even need to avoid when i can just block or stop them dead in their tracks.?? Her vibration wave is like a force wave that could stop an over two tonne weight from falling on her and throw it with speed. I don't see any problem at all suing it like a force field ( I said like because obviously the force has to keep emanating from her hands and moving, but seriously I don't need to dodge crap. I can stop it or deflect it or send it back to you well before it reaches me. Justice can do exactly the same thing with his force fields, he's used them to strike enemies from a distance. Since I can know your teams location and track your team from the outset, know if my feint's have worked and even if they haven't simply lead you to where I want to make a stand I will be the one determining exactly where the battle takes place and how close you get to me before it starts.

Thats neat. I rate higher tho 2 Space Marine who lead over 100s of Super Human Soldiers and Hundreds of Thousands of Imperial Guard against beings and forces that destroy planets on a daily basis.

She is outgun in experience, tactics (My guys have memorize the Adeptus Astertes), and the over all super human quicker thinking of my 2 Space Marine Commanders.

She's lead beings of far greater power ( Spectre, Dr fate anyone) against threats far greater than mere planet destroyers. Her leadership has gone up against such prep masters as Ultra Humanite, Per Degaton, Brainwave, the combined forces and super powered beings of WWII Germany, Japan, and Italy, as well as super artificial intelligences from 1000's of years into the future. I wouldn't say she's in any way lacking in leadership abilities here. If anything she's a more out of the box commander and more likely to employ methods that are less predictable than a trained military tactician.

Basically

  • I can determine where the battle starts and how close you get.
  • I can block you weapons from reaching me ( thanks to both Belle and Justice) while striking you with the same methods blocking said attacks
  • Even if your attacks do get through I have two team members who can heal from just about anything ( Stealth and Justice- remember he once grew back a hand just by concentrating )
  • And I can limit quite substantially your ability to even perceive my team and attack them. You may have ways around that but let's face it they aren't as effective as the ones i can block.

#19 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

So we're agreed, you may suspect a feint ( and let's face it with full knowledge of this team you should) but even so you would have to act on the information of the feint as well. You would have to totally rule it out, which will take time and resources. I agree you wouldn't send someone alone, that was my point. Your team would have to check out all possibilities. There's always the chance that the "feint" isn't the feint but the real action.

I do not see any reason to Flank in this case. Titus is on the roof scoping. Yuske and Kurama are not trust worthy to be on their own, nor do they split up in the Manga. The 3 Man team on the ground will stay together. It does not seem like any good reason to split up the 3 man team when 2 of them are not military or trustworthy enough to flank.

Like wise I see no reason why Yuske and Kurama want to Flank. They have no military experience and always stuck in a group.

As has PL. Let's not forget that her dark light ray when internalized can make her completely invisible. Seeing in the dark comes down to infra red and ultra violet rays which are a part of the light spectrum but still present in the dark. If PL could make herself invisible to Vulcan "son of Fire" in All Star Squadron 26" even with his heat detection it's a pretty safe bet that her invisibility will also cover those who can see in darkness.

None of my guys can see in darkness except the Marines Prey Vision. Kurama and Yuske have Spirit Sense and Kurama has Fox Senses in Smell.

The Giant Plant is like wise helpful as well the mass Gunfire attack coming your way. All I need is to sense your position, drop Plant attack, and fire. Your bound to be hit.

.

As seen here, its a tactic that worked easy last time. Phantom Lady has no real ability Yuske or Kurama hadn't already faced before.

I just do not see how you are dodging all this when your guys are slower than Spidey.

Again all these senses don't exceed anything on my team especially with the gear of out perk. Basically I can know your EXACT position from the outset and monitor your movement from there with wrist mounted radar. With my capability to feint I can misdirect in a minor way your team and know IMMEDIATELY if it hasn't worked and adjust accordingly. If you don't react to my set ups I'll be certain of other modes of tracking and be looking for ways to block.

The beauty of my Perk is my guy have real info to work off of on your team and capabilities. You on the other hand is totally in the dark on mine. You have no clue of all the ways I can sense you. No clue that I have superior firepower. Most of your argument is base on having a clue how to counter my plans. Problem is you have nothing to work or base off countering my guys before the initial first contact.

All I'm going to do is quote your own reply.

She is not moving no faster than Spider Man as per rules.

So are your guy's "faster than the rules?? Liberty belle's link with the actual bell gives her adrenaline powers that give her slightly above peak strength, speed and agility. She would be close to Spidey level speed so she would easily react to anyone in this tourney. As I said she fought several members of Hugo Danner's ( Arn Munro's father) son's of Dawn. Arn was created to be the GA Superman replacement after COIE with the difference that his powers never increased above Action #1 levels. Speed wise he was be a little above Spidey ( Bullets weren't so fast back then and IIRC he couldn't out race them), and the Son's of dawn were slightly below him.

From what I seen being close to Spidey Speed is not enough to dodge Mach 2 Bolters, Mach 3 Spirit Attacks, or the Mach 2 Moving Plant. That is being generous, Kasura was moving faster than Mach 4 as Kurama could barely keep up with him with sight, so that Plant had to move very fast to catch him. Your close to Spidey Speed. Yet Spider with Spider Since has trouble dodging everything I just said. Why would she stand half the chance?

Why would I even need to avoid when i can just block or stop them dead in their tracks.?? Her vibration wave is like a force wave that could stop an over two tonne weight from falling on her and throw it with speed. I don't see any problem at all suing it like a force field ( I said like because obviously the force has to keep emanating from her hands and moving, but seriously I don't need to dodge crap. I can stop it or deflect it or send it back to you well before it reaches me. Justice can do exactly the same thing with his force fields, he's used them to strike enemies from a distance. Since I can know your teams location and track your team from the outset, know if my feint's have worked and even if they haven't simply lead you to where I want to make a stand I will be the one determining exactly where the battle takes place and how close you get to me before it starts.

I dont see Sound Waves of her Caliber Stopping a Molecule heating Device like the Melta Gun or Spirit Gun. How Powerful is the Spirit Gun?

Spirit Gun is powerful enough to crack Diamonds.

That Blast is ridicules. And it moves at Mach 2-3 Speeds as Mach 3 Fighters have trouble dodging it.

I just do not see 2 Ton Sounds Waves blocking this or the Melta Gun. Nor do I see her preventing the speedy Mach 2 Plant attacking from all sides being fended off.

She's lead beings of far greater power ( Spectre, Dr fate anyone) against threats far greater than mere planet destroyers. Her leadership has gone up against such prep masters as Ultra Humanite, Per Degaton, Brainwave, the combined forces and super powered beings of WWII Germany, Japan, and Italy, as well as super artificial intelligences from 1000's of years into the future. I wouldn't say she's in any way lacking in leadership abilities here. If anything she's a more out of the box commander and more likely to employ methods that are less predictable than a trained military tactician.

Just because you lead Overpower Beings (That have no tactics at all half the time) to win battles is a lack of leadership. Her battles are handed to her. With OP beings like Fate and Specter Titus would conquer the Universe.

No, My guys have to lead Space Marines against equal if not more powerful armies, out numbered 10 to 1 more often than not, and with no magic power or Psy power vs World Level Psychic/Magic beings.

Yet they still win with their incredible leadership and tactics.

Titus alone with 2 Space Marines beat back a Army of Orks and Chaos Marines.

(Dark Angel Chapter Mod) Titus always finds a way.

Basically

  • I can determine where the battle starts and how close you get.
  • I can block you weapons from reaching me ( thanks to both Belle and Justice) while striking you with the same methods blocking said attacks
  • Even if your attacks do get through I have two team members who can heal from just about anything ( Stealth and Justice- remember he once grew back a hand just by concentrating )
  • And I can limit quite substantially your ability to even perceive my team and attack them. You may have ways around that but let's face it they aren't as effective as the ones i can block.

My conclusions.

I know what your capable of and will find ways to counter it before the battle begins thanks to my Perk.

I have a Giant Plant attacking from behind and onslaught of instant death power/firepower from the front.

I have so many ways to detect you its recockulas. Add to that my Fire Power Onslaught requires little fineness.

I dont see many characters on your team speed wise staying alive or able to counter or even dodge all the attacks coming your way by all my Mach 2 guys.

I have not even got into Close Combat. In CC I simply dominate with my Space Marines and YYH Characters.

#20 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

Posted by beatboks1 (4802 posts) 4 hours, 53 minutes ago

first your assuming you'll actually make the roof top. remember that I have had a look with the ultra high boost of your team from starting position and have seen all your gear. Also seen the path your taking so I'll be on an intercept path. setting up thise feints to slow your progress.

the only member of my team whos not at or very near spiderman speed is PL. Stealth is physically enhanced and can not onoy tag but hang with in a drawn iut confrontation Lobo ( already shown ) who's able to do the same to Superman. Belle with her adrenaline bursts has reacted to and dodged many speedsters .

Justice has fought dozens of oponents at once and taken down someone who has had a gun onnthe back of his head at point blank rang ( gun barrel actually touching his skull). speed isn't an issue here at all ( i'll provide scans when i get home not on iphone)

slight problem with your concept of leading just super powered beincs with uber power. she has also lead non powered gimick heroes against thise very powerhouses to success. imagine leading a team of normal humans against several of your mos powerful members when they are under the control of Hitler because he has the spear of Destiny. that's what Belle had to do when Superman, Wonder woman, Alan Scot , Dr Fate and others were fighting against her team and the only members of power you have are Starman, Hawkman and Johnny Quick. she was completely outmatched and still lead them to victory. when facing Per Degatons first incursion against A.S.S he took out Fate, Spectre, Superman et all at the very first move. Her tactics have taken down guys who beat powerhouses of that level. she also lead a resistence group in France against the German overlords with mich success before she had to swim the chanel because there was a price on her head b4 the US joined the war. Choose to ignore it if you will but it's not a wise one. plus I forgot that Justice in his own dimension was the leader of his dimensions Justice warriors who fought evil sorserers

#21 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

first your assuming you'll actually make the roof top. remember that I have had a look with the ultra high boost of your team from starting position and have seen all your gear. Also seen the path your taking so I'll be on an intercept path. setting up thise feints to slow your progress.

There is nothing that will hinder me reaching the Rooftop. I have a Jet Pack on Titus.

It will take less than 2 seconds to reach the Roof Top for him. The rest on on the ground in his view.

the only member of my team whos not at or very near spiderman speed is PL. Stealth is physically enhanced and can not onoy tag but hang with in a drawn iut confrontation Lobo ( already shown ) who's able to do the same to Superman. Belle with her adrenaline bursts has reacted to and dodged many speedsters .

Ok.

Still have too many attacks from the Demon Plant, Stalker Bolter, Melta Gun, Spirit Shot Gun, and Rose throws.

Heck if Kurama/Yoko wants to he can Rose Whirlwind Razor Petals your way.

.

.

I simply have way to much for you to dodge or feasibly block from front, behind, and sides.

Justice has fought dozens of oponents at once and taken down someone who has had a gun onnthe back of his head at point blank rang ( gun barrel actually touching his skull). speed isn't an issue here at all ( i'll provide scans when i get home not on iphone)

Ok, lets say Speed is not the issue as your guys are proving roughly Mach 1 Mach 1.5 in speed. The Mass amounts and AOE attacks still is.

slight problem with your concept of leading just super powered beincs with uber power. she has also lead non powered gimick heroes against thise very powerhouses to success. imagine leading a team of normal humans against several of your mos powerful members when they are under the control of Hitler because he has the spear of Destiny. that's what Belle had to do when Superman, Wonder woman, Alan Scot , Dr Fate and others were fighting against her team and the only members of power you have are Starman, Hawkman and Johnny Quick. she was completely outmatched and still lead them to victory. when facing Per Degatons first incursion against A.S.S he took out Fate, Spectre, Superman et all at the very first move. Her tactics have taken down guys who beat powerhouses of that level. she also lead a resistence group in France against the German overlords with mich success before she had to swim the chanel because there was a price on her head b4 the US joined the war. Choose to ignore it if you will but it's not a wise one. plus I forgot that Justice in his own dimension was the leader of his dimensions Justice warriors who fought evil sorserers

Sounds really no different to Raclaw or Titus Feats of each beating Daemon Princes.

Daemon Princes can Reality Warp Planets, Alter Time and Space. They are so powerful to crush Tank Battalions on their own.

.

Daemon princes are one of the most Powerful Beings in the Universe.

They can Transcend Time and Space with thier Power.

This Daemon Prince Power is incredible and he is Invincible.

Here a Damon Prince uses his power to ravage a entire World all of its life and forces with ease.

Another Daemon Prince ravages a entire planet of its armies.

They are World Killers.

Titus beats one Daemon Prince and his Chaos Army with skill, tactics, and with his fist.

Raclaw beats one when he became a Dreadnought called Tankred through skill and determination alone.

.

Too bad the Daemon Prince simply returns later, they are impossible to kill permanatly, can only have their Physical Bodies Destroyed.

The point is Hitler with the Spear of Destiny is no more a threat than the Franklin Richards beings Space Marines have to fight in the 10,000 years of war.

Then add to this Kurama who is one of the most intelligent and tactful characters in the entire YYH Manga. Out thinking opponents and exploiting weaknesses. With the Full knowledge he could potentially solo you entire team arguably.

#22 Edited by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

There is nothing that will hinder me reaching the Rooftop. I have a Jet Pack on Titus.

Dude Justices "sword hand" has VAPORISED people when he was going in hard. What do you think it will do to a jet pack full of fuel???

Still have too many attacks from the Demon Plant, Stalker Bolter, Melta Gun, Spirit Shot Gun, and Rose throws.

First will be vaporised, And Belle's sonic waves that throw Baron Blitz around like chaff in the wind ( a guy who goes to to toe with Superman) really not seeing an issue.

#23 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Dude Justices "sword hand" has VAPORISED people when he was going in hard. What do you think it will do to a jet pack full of fuel???

I doubt it when I have a Iron Halo. I posted the vids and description of it on the first post of my Space Marines. It is a powerful Energy Field that can tank bunker busting blasts before draining. Then Recharges in 10+ Seconds.

Also I never seen or heard a Jump Pack exploding due to fuel. Last Time I read in a novel they run of the same Unidentified power source of the Power Armour with a Charge. Makes sense to me as it seems stupid to have a Marine depend on volatile fissile fuels when he is hit with Plasma Weapons all the time.

So either way I do not see a Blast frying humans close to getting thru the shield with out being fired on first or Titus simply thrust dodges.

First will be vaporized And Belle's sonic waves that throw Baron Blitz around like chaff in the wind ( a guy who goes to to toe with Superman) really not seeing an issue.

I dont see how all this will happen when the Demon Plant is behind you attacking, then all the offense firepower in front.

Also I do not see ANY way Sonic Powers forcing back the Spirit Gun.

If worst came to worst and you want to sit still all cute like with Sonic Powers blazing... then you hit your guys too as far as I can tell.

Unless your aiming it in a specific direction. Which means Yokos Rose Whirl Wind can easy whip up from the sides.

Yuske can Yoko can Mach 2 to the side to unload.

Titus can Jump Pack on top of her and Slam with Cratering Force.

So many ways to attack since she is directing a certain area of her Sonic Powers to keep from hitting her team.

Also just because you throw back a guy who fights Superman means little due to the laws of Gravity. I seen Batman Kicks send Superman sailing 10 feet. Means nothing really. I doubt the force of those waves will be enough against a Rocket Propelled Bolter design to cut thru Wind Energy forces. Or the Sub Atomic Partical heating Melta Gun.

I think we are running in circles. I will let you close and we can go to votes.

#24 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

First Justice's shields have showings of very high resistance they have withstood energy blasts of high power and high explosions. His sword hand is every bit as powerful it comes from the same power source

liberty Belle's "sonic waves" aren't just sound they are actual force waves. How else do you think they can throw around the likes of Baron Blitzkrieg and Sumo casually. The Baron can focus his entire body,s energy into a single action which as I've shown allows him to fight on Superman's level. Sumo likewise can match WW and his sword strikes are so powerful that hie can cut through solid steel ( even managed to completely cut off Robotman's arms and legs in battle and his body could tank explosive shells. I wouldn't in any way be underestimating her force blasts

How is it that you have these plants can be behind me as soon as we start before you have even ascertained where my team is? I've established how I will know where your team is from the start and your movements and respond accordingly, now your somehow psychic and clairvoyant??

And seriously considering Justice can vaporise a human doing so to a bit of fauna will be child's play. Not to mention just sweeping it away with Belle's sonic force waves. also I think your under rating Stealth quite a bit here. I means seriously she can rend human flesh and tear it apart with her fingers and nails.

#25 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

First Justice's shields have showings of very high resistance they have withstood energy blasts of high power and high explosions. His sword hand is every bit as powerful it comes from the same power source

liberty Belle's "sonic waves" aren't just sound they are actual force waves. How else do you think they can throw around the likes of Baron Blitzkrieg and Sumo casually. The Baron can focus his entire body,s energy into a single action which as I've shown allows him to fight on Superman's level. Sumo likewise can match WW and his sword strikes are so powerful that hie can cut through solid steel ( even managed to completely cut off Robotman's arms and legs in battle and his body could tank explosive shells. I wouldn't in any way be underestimating her force blasts

How is it that you have these plants can be behind me as soon as we start before you have even ascertained where my team is? I've established how I will know where your team is from the start and your movements and respond accordingly, now your somehow psychic and clairvoyant??

And seriously considering Justice can vaporise a human doing so to a bit of fauna will be child's play. Not to mention just sweeping it away with Belle's sonic force waves. also I think your under rating Stealth quite a bit here. I means seriously she can rend human flesh and tear it apart with her fingers and nails.

1) I do not doubt their power, I merely state the Iron Halo and Power Armour which have tank Bunker blasts many times before draining. Also Titus can react when being hit by Thrusting and Dodging. Finally the Thrusters are not fossil Fuel in any info on them.

2) I understand that. What I do not understand is how they will stop Rocket Propelled Bolters design to cut through Wind Energy Forces as well being Rocket Propelled so they do not lose Momentum, all at Mach 2 Speed. Or how Sound Force Waves negate the Super Heat Sub Atomic Partical Melta Gun. Or how they will prtect her from a Granite Eating Demon Plant stricking at Mach 2 speeds.

3) As I showed Yoko can grow from the earth a Demon Plant that can burst thru 5 feet of Granite with ease in a fraction of a second.

.

Pretty easy feat for Yoko.

The Guy manipulate Plant life with ease. Infact with a few House Plants and the time it takes to Pee, Kurama made a Jungle from some house plants.

.

So he could throw up this giant Demon Plant behind you with ease. A Demon Plant that moves at clearly mach speeds and eats Granit Stone with no effort. It tracks anything that moves or emits excessive heat. That sounds like your team alright with all the movement you be doing and heat from Justice energy blast.

As for me locating you, I have so many ways of detection, and you have NO way of hiding from Smell and Spirit Detection.

4) You cound attack it, leaving you open to my Spider Man level Speed Blitzers and there attack.

You pin between a rock and a hard place. Also it takes alot to kill this plant. Kasaru specializes in Bombing and moves faster than Kurama can perceave (So faster than Mach 3), yet he cannot dodge all the attacks of this Demon Plant and mangaes only to hinder it with his Bombs.

.

Bamsky!

So I dont think Stealth means much for many reasons here.

1) I have 3 super Strategist who have Full Knowledge on your powers and capabilities. They showed easily be able to predict and track you as well know how to deploy right to counter your team.

2) I have every imaginable way to sense and track your team. 2 Ways you for fact cannot counter. smell and Spirit Detection.

3) Stealth means little when I know your coming, have guaranteed ways of detecting you, and all the firepower to lay down for Area of Effect (AOE) damage.

4) Stealth works best when you can one shot a foe. All my guys are Luke Cage in Durability thanks to Power Armour, Healing Factors, and just plain toughness to harm. Yuske is more Spider Man level. Also all of them have insane reaction time due to their Mach Speed Combat Speed and Reflexes.

At the end of the day I will let the votes decide who they believe is right.

#26 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you've misunderstood

When I said your underestimating stealth I meant the member of my team by that name.

She's easily Spider-Man level strength, speed, and agility. She also has a healing factor about Logan level. Add to all of this her feral nature, with her sharp finger nails she can literally ( and has) rend the flesh from the bones of high durability beings. He'll she's even damaged silicon based life forms who's durability is amongst the best in the DCU.

Also you speak of your Intelligent tacticians predicting our every move, not going to happen. No-one on your team is smarter or better at using a beings own psyche against them than Vrill Dox. He certainly couldn't predict Stealth's feral nature, if he could she wouldn't have killed his original body. Dox is a super genius who can and has defeated not 1 but 3 5th level genius' at their own game by playing their own natures against them. Yet he could never predict exactly what stealth would do. No the way he used Stealth instead of manipulating events to have her do what he wanted was to have her friends ( like Strata and Phase) put in hot spots that he was hopeful Stealth would protect them. There was a reason he usually only dropped stealth and strata into some hot spot where they were outnumbered a 100 or a 1000 to one, he knew they could take those odds given enough time

Currently away from home over the long weekend and in iPhone/Pad. Will load scans if needed when I get home

#27 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3989 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: @cadencev2: I'm opening the threads up for votes on Monday, best of luck you are both doing a kickass job.

#28 Edited by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2

here are the scans to support what I said about Stealth

Stealth has had a full force blast from the emerald Eye and gotten up healed in short order ( the same Emerald eye that hurts Lobo and in the hands of Emerald Empress actually solo's the Legion of Superheroes). She's had her hands completely crushed by Lobo and then fought with them back to normal a page or so later.

The scan where you see her covered in blood, when the LEGION found her prey there was less than 20% of their body mass left. She's attacked Dox many times and he knows her intimately and is a master of manipulating peoples motivations- clearly he's a can't manage it any where near as well with her but can orchestrate an entire empire to follow a path he has set out.

#29 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: When does voting start. For me ATM it's 10.45pm Monday 29th April.

#30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: When does voting start. For me ATM it's 10.45pm Monday 29th April.

Yeah, it is 8:45 AM fro me now.

#31 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3989 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by Sherlock (7240 posts) - - Show Bio

Ill be back for this.Cadence when using his space soldier dudes always takes a lot of reading (Hell i may even be able to quote all of it word for word by now)

#34 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@sherlock: Its mostly cut and past of the same stuff. lol.

#35 Edited by boschePG (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: @beatboks1:

I think this was an even fight. with 4 people on roster I think any battle would be a 2/2 split. In this case I usually side with the prep, which Cadence has. Both have soul radar so finding them are equal

Everything can be countered but the sonic wave I think would deflect bullets but Cadence's Yu Yu Hakashu energy blast point did make sense

Cadence

final answer (real close tho)

#36 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: Its so nice to see someone break it down.

#37 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

I would have liked to see some debate as to your team's ability to work together as I see some rather major issues, like Stealth and the xenophobic nature of the Space Marines. There is a perk for teamwork for a reason and you both could have capitalized on that.

As to the debate that was presented, stealth, the concept not the person, seems to be on Beatboks' side however he doesn't really have any meaningful way of taking advantage of that as he only has one guy capable of taking on the Marine Twins that Cadence has. I am going to give this to @cadencev2. Had @beatboks1 gone with the Full Knowledge perk rather than the Goodie Bag (Which is a useless perk by the way) he might have been able to better contend.

@cadencev2: This is the proper way to vote. Breaking down points presented not scans presented. Keep that in mind as you vote. Read through all of the debates first without looking at scans and then read through it again and look at the scans and see if your opinion changes.

#38 Edited by boschePG (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: @beatboks1: anytime people put in work in a battle I will give my reasons of why I thought someone should win. That way people know where they lacked. I will also admit that sometimes I do miss or forget points mentioned as I try to assemble the fights in my head by presented points. In that way that person is always welcome to bring up something I missed and talk about it


This is the proper way to vote. Breaking down points presented not scans presented. Keep that in mind as you vote. Read through all of the debates first without looking at scans and then read through it again and look at the scans and see if your opinion changes.

I agree whole heartedly. I dont know every character in these battles so scans ( and what they say in scans) are good visual proof. A good reference to issue is also good to me as a scan. I read what is said first then go to scans

#39 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: I think you misunderstood my point. Scans aren't important to the debate, they are little more than window dressing.

#40 Posted by boschePG (2175 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: I understand your point. Scans can always be taken out of context. But numerous scans eliminate the "I dont believe he can do that aspect" in a battle. Scans arent the point of the battle, cuz a good reference to a issue is just as good to me. Its like a vid. If someone says I dont think a person can throw something that far as stated argument, a youtube clip can easily prove that a plan is likely or just words being spilled out cuz it sounds good

#41 Edited by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio
@diredrill said:

As to the debate that was presented, stealth, the concept not the person, seems to be on Beatboks' side however he doesn't really have any meaningful way of taking advantage of that as he only has one guy capable of taking on the Marine Twins that Cadence has. I am going to give this to @cadencev2. Had @beatboks1 gone with the Full Knowledge perk rather than the Goodie Bag (Which is a useless perk by the way) he might have been able to better contend.

Just want to say I COMPLETELY disagree with the underlined. The goodie bag was an essential perk for my team as without it I had no way of even detecting or monitoring my opponents and knowing where they are. In short without it the stealth option would have gone against me instead of for me. In street level Tourney's I usually pick someone with a strong sense ability ( like Argus or Mark Shaw ) so that I can have "eye's and ear's" everywhere. Not to mention that without it I didn't even have any weapons at all. The sense thing however was vital. Knowledge is completely useless without a prep master and I also didn't pick one here (a gain goes against my usual MO and why I pick Shaw who with Prep has soloed the Satellite era JLA.

In the instance here, having the "goodie bag" also gave me the knowledge. Why, because with the magnification goggles and writ radar I could see my enemy and know how they were armed from starting locations. I could monitor their movements and know how fast they could cover ground. Instead of arbitrarily telling me what they were capable of ( which without a prep master would be completely useless) it gave me a real time account of exactly what they were doing. In a combat scenario where you have two experienced field commanders against two other of the same I'll take real time troop movement over intell ( that any experienced military man like myself of cadence will tell you most of us don't trust anyway) any day of the week.

@cadencev2:

Looks like you'll take me on this one, of course i ever doubted that- hence

@beatboks1 said:

Well this should be a piece of cake (for cadence).

#42 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: @boschepg: As the saying goes, Everyone is a Critic. I hold visual, video, or audio evidence highly. Especially if I never seen said character before. It is crazy how many people debate pro or against Ghost Rider with MISINFORMATION and back nothing they say.

Scans however are solid undeniable proof.

That is my style. Sticking to it.

@beatboks1 said:

Well this should be a piece of cake (for cadence).

Yeah I felt your team was not up to par as your usual.

#43 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: I dislike using scans at all unless requested by the opponent. It serves to compel each team to learn about the other team. Posting scans before required just makes it appear as everyone is being dishonest and debating in bad faith. I debate in good faith, I assume what you are saying is correct unless my research contradicts that information. Given the number of highly accurate wikis and easily accessible information, it is possible to become relatively aware of what the enemy team is capable of doing. Only in circumstances where my information contradicts their information do I request a scan.

@cadencev2: There is a difference between a criticism and a correction. Scans are rarely undeniable proof of anything. For instance, you used in game footage as proof of the abilities of a weapon. In game footage is never canon but you still posted it as though it was! Had I used "scans" as a criteria, I would have voted against you for using in game footage! It is proof of nothing! Scans are window dressing and using them as a serious criteria is like judging a house by its curtains.

@beatboks1: You are a military man, you know how radar works. It would be useless to you in this battle as the waves would just bounce off all of the buildings and reveal nothing unless they were readily viewable. The Goggles are also just as useless given that metal rebar and wires would be running through all the buildings rendering your X-ray vision useless. The earwig is nice but given that you kept your team members were never too far apart, it didn't benefit you at all. The grenades and gas masks are the only useful items in the Goodie Bag. You only got to use those items in that way here because Cadence never called you on it.

#44 Edited by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill

Please explain to me

1. How radar or x ray vision ( not that I used the later) are hindered when I made the character airborne to use it ( also when earwig was required)

2. How any of that invalidates 10 x magnification HD

3. How the f%&# the only three characters I had that were actually capable of mixing it with Cadence's team would do jack without the night vision once Phantom lady b lacked out everything and made the lights go out.

4. How would I have known where to cause the sounds and heat signatures that were a big part of my strategy without the enhanced magnification vision

Without the. Night vision component of the goodie bag my team was ended b4 we even thought of entering battle because. Those who could do harm wouldn't knew where to do it.

#45 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: There is a difference between a criticism and a correction. Scans are rarely undeniable proof of anything. For instance, you used in game footage as proof of the abilities of a weapon. In game footage is never canon but you still posted it as though it was! Had I used "scans" as a criteria, I would have voted against you for using in game footage! It is proof of nothing! Scans are window dressing and using them as a serious criteria is like judging a house by its curtains.

I never showed any Game footage as proof of anything. I posted the Insider Series Official Fact Videos of the capabilities and info of the weapons. The Footage I used was to prove the range and dispersment. The Melta Gun is a short range weapon and no amount of BS Words will give my opponent a accurate idea of the range and wide dispense of anything.

#46 Edited by Dredeuced (5328 posts) - - Show Bio

I still don't know how Cadence slipped this one in:

"I doubt it when I have a Iron Halo. I posted the vids and description of it on the first post of my Space Marines. It is a powerful Energy Field that can tank bunker busting blasts before draining. Then Recharges in 10+ Seconds."

lol at thinking something that let's you take a nuke every 10 seconds is allowed. Luke Cage durability my tookus :P

#47 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Being airborne wouldn't help you if they were behind buildings that neither your radar or X-ray would penetrate effectively. 10x Zoom only helps if you have a general idea of what direction they are in. You only have 1 guy capable of doing anything to the Marine-O Bros and he can read auras so he wouldn't need nightvision.

@cadencev2:

In game footage is still non-canon so even if it shows the dispersion of the Melta, it is still not canon.

@dredeuced:

I might have campaigned against his team had I not had a way to completely invalidate the Marine-O Bros.

#48 Edited by Dredeuced (5328 posts) - - Show Bio

I have nothing against standard armor marines getting in he just didn't list the Iron Halos when he signed up or I'd contest it. The iron halo just blatantly spits on the durability rules. If you put an Iron Halo on a sickly child it'd break the durability limit.

#49 Posted by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Being airborne wouldn't help you if they were behind buildings that neither your radar or X-ray would penetrate effectively. 10x Zoom only helps if you have a general idea of what direction they are in. You only have 1 guy capable of doing anything to the Marine-O Bros and he can read auras so he wouldn't need nightvision.

What buildings exactly in the battle field would even be a problem. The area between our two starting points is completely void of them?? The buildings that do exist are all single level height and would not obstruct a damn thing from a few hundred feet high.

Tell me, did you even read the debate? Three of my characters have the ability to "do something" to the marines. Liberty Belle with her sonic wave powers has put down characters that have matched Superman. She's taken out baron Blizcrieg ( two or three times from memory) who has been shown to be able to fight Superman on equal footing, defeat Uncle Sam, belt the living crap out of Hourman when he had the help of several heroes and more. She's also used them to hurt and throw Sumo around who has matched Wonder Woman more than once, and cut the legs and arms of Robotman. As well as throw around several members of the sons of dawn quite easily. These guy's were all Arn Munro level so above Luke Cage in strength and durability with speed to match and healing factors. Quite frankly she's a hell of a lot more capable of harming them than Justice. Then I have Stealth who has had long battles with Lobo on a few occasions as well as taken on several powered members of LEGION when feral ( guys like Captain Comet and others a lot more powerful than the mere street levellers here) and has physically damaged Dryads who's durability isn't far off some of the best DCU races. Seriously the ONE guy you think can do damage is IMO based on feats the lowest threat of three.

Without the night vision he wouldn't be able to see through PL's dark ray to see the "auras". I fail to see what good the ability will do him if he hasn't vision to use it.

#50 Edited by beatboks1 (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

FTR anyone still voting ignore that last post ^ ^. It wasn't part of the debate b4 called and shouldn't be considered when voting.