Solid Snake vs Winter Soldier

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Pokergeist

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@cadencev2 said:

@nickzambuto said:

@cadencev2:

Now again this is all IDW Comics Snake who I am debating for cause he is the best Snake by far.

Ehh, I still contest to that. Comic Snake has better bullet dodging feats and maybe CQB but that's about it. Game Snake has performed all the accuracy feats of comic Snake plus more, and he has a lot more strength and endurance showings.

Challenge a Viner.

IDW Solid Snake MGS1 and MGS1 vs your Game Snake MGS1 and MGS2. Lets do it!

lol you can't be serious... alright sure, what the heck.

I will make.

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slimj87d

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@slimj87d: I think you're misunderstanding the feats I've presented. The Ocelot battle wasn't accuracy on Snake's part, it was speed. Bucky has never been shot at by a marksman of Ocelot's caliber. Catching an arrow isn't as impressive as dodging a bullet, let alone a barrage of bullets from Revolver Ocelot in close quarters. Snake could catch an arrow if he really wanted to considering his other reaction time feats outweigh such an accomplishment, but he can tell just moving slightly out of the way is a heckuva lot more simple. To this day Snake's greatest feat in any category is still dodging a mach 20 Rail Gun blast from Crying Wolf. If bullets and arrows are Bucky's best, Crying Wolf would have killed him.

If you want to just drop it though, that's cool. We can agree to disagree. However,

I think I'm being pretty generous mixing canon and non-canon feats here too.

Neither Cadence nor myself posted a single non canon feat FYI. Hideo Kojima already confirmed the DGN as canon.

Dodging a bullet is only impressive if you literally dodged the bullet. Dodging the shooter is a different story. Ocelot is a great Marksman yes, but you have to realize that Ocelot didn't want to risk blowing the C4 up either. There are a lto of factors in this feat we are both discussing here. Why the Bucky's arrow feats are impressive?

He wasn't looking where the arrows are coming from. And coming from a archer like Hawkeye, you can bet they were coming with perfect form and fastest an arrow can travel. The arrows were already fired and he managed to shoot them out. He had his attention to 2 other guys.

That's why I think the arrow feats are so impressive. Bucky's attention was elsewhere where Snake's attention was on ocelot.

As for the Crying wolf scene, I have a few problems with that being impressive, don't think I'm dismissing the feat like it's not a good one but hear me out and maybe you might change your mind about it. If not then we can agree to disagree. First, the crows already alerted Snake that something was wrong. Second, the camera actually travels with the rail projectile as it approaches Snake and we see Snake move in real time. With the distance, time laps and Snake moving in real time the rail projectile isn't moving as fast as a normal bullet and therefore the sound it gave off probably alerted Snake before. Like I said, we can agree to disagree on this feat.

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renamed040924

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@slimj87d: In reference to the Rail Gun feat, people try to dismiss it all the time based on the same claim you made and I always reply with a very simple response: it's not a comic book. This is a video game, with full motion video. The simple fact is if the scene actually happened in real-time no player would know wtf just transpired because it'd be beyond their ability to perceive. It's as simple as that. The best explanation is that the scene is slowed to Snake's perception. It's not uncommon for Kojima to slow scenes down (for example, Raiden's famous fight against the Gekko's canonically occurred in a few seconds. Same for Naked Snake's fight with Ocelot and Naked Snake vs CIA soldiers in Peace Walker) so I don't see a reason that this explanation isn't reliable.

As for the crows, Snake was on guard but that doesn't really diminish the feat. He saw the blast coming thanks to them, but only after it was fired.

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slimj87d

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#54  Edited By slimj87d

@nickzambuto said:

@slimj87d: In reference to the Rail Gun feat, people try to dismiss it all the time based on the same claim you made and I always reply with a very simple response: it's not a comic book. This is a video game, with full motion video. The simple fact is if the scene actually happened in real-time no player would know wtf just transpired because it'd be beyond their ability to perceive. It's as simple as that. The best explanation is that the scene is slowed to Snake's perception. It's not uncommon for Kojima to slow scenes down (for example, Raiden's famous fight against the Gekko's canonically occurred in a few seconds. Same for Naked Snake's fight with Ocelot and Naked Snake vs CIA soldiers in Peace Walker) so I don't see a reason that this explanation isn't reliable.

As for the crows, Snake was on guard but that doesn't really diminish the feat. He saw the blast coming thanks to them, but only after it was fired.

I still don't see how any of Snake's feats prove Snake is faster and better with a gun than Bucky's 1 vs 3 with Bucky shooting the arrows out in midair while multitasking with a lot going on. If anything, they just show he's on par with Bucky, but I don't agree to that either. Nothing shown is absolutely superior and overly dominating as a feat.

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renamed040924

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@slimj87d said:

@nickzambuto said:

@slimj87d: In reference to the Rail Gun feat, people try to dismiss it all the time based on the same claim you made and I always reply with a very simple response: it's not a comic book. This is a video game, with full motion video. The simple fact is if the scene actually happened in real-time no player would know wtf just transpired because it'd be beyond their ability to perceive. It's as simple as that. The best explanation is that the scene is slowed to Snake's perception. It's not uncommon for Kojima to slow scenes down (for example, Raiden's famous fight against the Gekko's canonically occurred in a few seconds. Same for Naked Snake's fight with Ocelot and Naked Snake vs CIA soldiers in Peace Walker) so I don't see a reason that this explanation isn't reliable.

As for the crows, Snake was on guard but that doesn't really diminish the feat. He saw the blast coming thanks to them, but only after it was fired.

I still don't see how any of Snake's feats prove Snake is faster and better with a gun than Bucky's 1 vs 3 with Bucky shooting the arrows out in midair while multitasking with a lot going on. If anything, they just show he's on par with Bucky, but I don't agree to that either. Nothing shown is absolutely superior and overly dominating as a feat.

Thought you wanted me to leave you alone? :P

Basically Bucky is very fast on the draw, that's what his fight with Logan, Hawkeye, and Daredevil proves. In terms of actual accuracy Snake has shot faster targets and farther targets.

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Pokergeist

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#57  Edited By Pokergeist

@cadencev2 said:

@i_like_swords: The IDW Comics differ from MGS1 and MGS2 Games slightly by showing off how awesome Snake is. Snake is so awesome he ends up beating Vamp and Solidus in MGS2 instead of Raiden who is just worthless. Still Canon with the MGS 3 Game, Metal Gear Games, and still meshes fine with MGS4 game as well.

So I like to use IDW Comics Solid Snake (who Hideo Kojima worked very closely with the artist and writer on it) and it stays in canon with all the Games but the MGS1 and MGS2 game that takes place in the Comic.

That would be good. It'd be easier doing it comic-to-comic as well. How much comic content has SS got? Like have they been making them alongside the games or has it only been recently?

I found out Hideo Kojima actually considers the comics canon with the main games. different events at time, but canon at the same time 0_0 I will take it.

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@i_like_swords said:

@cadencev2 said:

@i_like_swords: The IDW Comics differ from MGS1 and MGS2 Games slightly by showing off how awesome Snake is. Snake is so awesome he ends up beating Vamp and Solidus in MGS2 instead of Raiden who is just worthless. Still Canon with the MGS 3 Game, Metal Gear Games, and still meshes fine with MGS4 game as well.

So I like to use IDW Comics Solid Snake (who Hideo Kojima worked very closely with the artist and writer on it) and it stays in canon with all the Games but the MGS1 and MGS2 game that takes place in the Comic.

That would be good. It'd be easier doing it comic-to-comic as well. How much comic content has SS got? Like have they been making them alongside the games or has it only been recently?

I found out Hideo Kojima actually considers the comics canon with the main games. different events at time, but canon at the same time 0_0 I will take it.

I'd have to disappoint then. I realized that while Ninjak started off great his feats really diminished later on in his run. In fact, the whole story diminished, which is probably why he was cancelled. So yeah, I don't think I can actually make a good debate out of classic Ninjak..

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slimj87d

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@nickzambuto: I remember you asked for some accuracy feats of the WS, here's actually a very good one. He shoots 12 guards with tranquilizers before Namor and Jim can turn around. Tranquilizers are far harder to shoot the normal bullets. He hits them in areas their armor doesn't protect also.

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renamed040924

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Enemybird

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Bucky wrecks Snake

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jasonhawke

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After reading all of these LONG ass posts.

Im going with Snake

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Enemybird

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#66  Edited By Enemybird

@enemybird: NO WAY. Snake wrecks bucky.

I am at work right now but when I get home... prepare for battle!

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DaredevilDD78

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Solid Snake

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colliderz

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SS wins here

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GrafD

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@i_like_swords: @pokergeist: @nickzambuto: you guys are the real MVP thx for the scanes and feats first i would have said Winter Soldiar but thx to your scanes and feats i go with Solid Snake

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Lunacyde

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#70  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
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@nickzambuto: I guess they're both going to have something in common David Hayter is to voice the Winter Soldier in Marvel Heroes and possibly future media such as cartoons, etc.

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#74  Edited By sirfizzwhizz
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renamed040924

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@slimj87d said:

@nickzambuto: I guess they're both going to have something in common David Hayter is to voice the Winter Soldier in Marvel Heroes and possibly future media such as cartoons, etc.

Really now? Can't wait to here that.

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Solid Snake in a tough fight.

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NinjaWarrior268

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I think Winter Soldier can kick Snake's ass with his super strength

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renamed040924

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I think Winter Soldier can kick Snake's ass with his super strength

Like the Cyborg Ninja and Vulcan Raven and Vamp and Crying Wolf and friggin Metal Gears all did.

Wait...

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colliderz

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Snake got this

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#80  Edited By tparks
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#81  Edited By JuzaCloud

Solid Snakes voice beats Bucky, let alone his combat skills

Snake: Metal Gear? It can't be!

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MrQwerty64

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Captain America > Solid Snake > Winter Soldier

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Snake.

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Is the Railgun the one used in MGS 4? If it is, I don't think Bucky could use it, considering that the railgun was comparable to a tank.

Either way, I'm siding with Snake on this one