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#1 Edited by slacker the hacker (10143 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are armed with their best weaponry

Standard knowledge of each other

Win by death/knockout

Start on opposite ends of the map

Buck euip. pistol, assault rifle with a grenade launcher on it and Cap's shield

Snake equip. Silecner pistol, Patriot, knife and sniper rifle

There is a rail gun hidden on the map

VS

LOCATION

#2 Posted by _slim_ (15522 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

I don't know what to consider their best weapons tho...

#3 Posted by agentxx (2570 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL I'm debating this on fact pile, all the fanboys say Snake stomps with octocamo doing some crazy sh*t flips and head shotting him with a rail gun. XD

#4 Edited by slacker the hacker (10143 posts) - - Show Bio

@_slim_ said:

Interesting.

I don't know what to consider their best weapons tho...

For Bucky it would probably be a pistol, assault rifle with a grenade launcher on it and Cap's shield

Snake has far to much weaponry for me to name.

@agentxx said:

LOL I'm debating this on fact pile, all the fanboys say Snake stomps with octocamo doing some crazy sh*t flips and head shotting him with a rail gun. XD

That's where I got the idea.

#5 Posted by agentxx (2570 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker:Well he wins

/thread.

#6 Edited by _slim_ (15522 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker:

@_slim_ said:

Interesting.

I don't know what to consider their best weapons tho...

For Bucky it would probably be a pistol, assault rifle with a grenade launcher on it and Cap's shielf

Snake has far to much weaponry for me to name

That's the problem for me, I kinda already got fix on Bucky's weapons. It's just Snake I'm not too sure about, like you said too many to name, and some of it can get ridiculous.

#7 Posted by slacker the hacker (10143 posts) - - Show Bio

@_slim_ said:

@slacker the hacker:

@_slim_ said:

Interesting.

I don't know what to consider their best weapons tho...

For Bucky it would probably be a pistol, assault rifle with a grenade launcher on it and Cap's shielf

Snake has far to much weaponry for me to name

That's the problem for me, I kinda already got fix on Bucky's weapons. It's just Snake I'm not too sure about, like you said too many to name, and some of it can get ridiculous.

Any ideas who your leaning towards?

#8 Posted by _slim_ (15522 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker the hacker: Eh, I don't know really, it could probably go either way. Depending on what Snake is armed with, how both use the location, etc. I'm not too sure. If I had to pick one tho... Bucky.

#9 Posted by ThexX (1605 posts) - - Show Bio

@_slim_ said:

@slacker the hacker: Eh, I don't know really, it could probably go either way. Depending on what Snake is armed with, how both use the location, etc. I'm not too sure. If I had to pick one tho... Bucky.

this.

#10 Edited by Venariozzo (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThexX said:

@_slim_ said:

@slacker the hacker: Eh, I don't know really, it could probably go either way. Depending on what Snake is armed with, how both use the location, etc. I'm not too sure. If I had to pick one tho... Bucky.

this.

OP Needs to specify gear. The only way Snake stands a chance is if he picks Bucky off from a distance. If Bucky locates his distance it's over, and Up close Bucky would kill Snake in about 3 seconds.

#11 Posted by slacker the hacker (10143 posts) - - Show Bio

@Venariozzo said:

@ThexX said:

@_slim_ said:

@slacker the hacker: Eh, I don't know really, it could probably go either way. Depending on what Snake is armed with, how both use the location, etc. I'm not too sure. If I had to pick one tho... Bucky.

this.

OP Needs to specify gear. The only way Snake stands a chance is if he picks Bucky off from a distance. If Bucky locates his distance it's over, and Up close Bucky would kill Snake in about 3 seconds.

I'll specify in a minute have I'm leaving my house.

#12 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

Put my money on Snake finding that Rail Gun and blasting Bucky away.

If Bucky gets it first, that's no problem considering Snake has already dodged it's blast (several times faster than sound)

In this scenario, Snake can just get behind Bucky and pop him in the head without ever being seen.

#13 Posted by Darrius (72 posts) - - Show Bio

Solid Snake

The sneakiest person wins this, my money is on Solid Snake.

#14 Posted by Simon_the_digger (4032 posts) - - Show Bio

Solid Snake

#15 Edited by Venariozzo (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@Darrius said:

Solid Snake

The sneakiest person wins this, my money is on Solid Snake.

Stealth isn't going to play a big factor here considering that there aren't many places to hide. Snake is good at sneaking up at featless chumps and fodder but no one near the caliber of Bucky. Snake won't be able to sneak up on him. Bucky will catch then proceed to break his neck.

@Ferdelance said:

Solid Snake

gets killed.

#16 Posted by Darrius (72 posts) - - Show Bio

@Venariozzo said:

@Darrius said:

Solid Snake

The sneakiest person wins this, my money is on Solid Snake.

Stealth isn't going to play a big factor here considering that there aren't many places to hide. Snake is good at sneaking up at featless chumps and fodder but no one near the caliber of Bucky. Snake won't be able to sneak up on him. Bucky will catch then proceed to break his neck.

@Ferdelance said:

Solid Snake

gets killed.

Snake can move undetected on fully staffed military installations and active battle-fields. His whole M.O. is stealth and espionage. You fellow Bucky is going down. But don't worry; it won't hurt; and he won't feel any fear...he won't even see it coming.

#17 Posted by Venariozzo (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@Darrius said:

@Venariozzo said:

@Darrius said:

Solid Snake

The sneakiest person wins this, my money is on Solid Snake.

Stealth isn't going to play a big factor here considering that there aren't many places to hide. Snake is good at sneaking up at featless chumps and fodder but no one near the caliber of Bucky. Snake won't be able to sneak up on him. Bucky will catch then proceed to break his neck.

@Ferdelance said:

Solid Snake

gets killed.

Snake can move undetected on fully staffed military installations and active battle-fields. His whole M.O. is stealth and espionage. You fellow Bucky is going down. But don't worry; it won't hurt; and he won't feel any fear...he won't even see it coming.

Snake can move undetected through fully staffed military installations and active battle fields.

Lets see, he got caught twice in the first Metal Gear Solid title, in fact one time he got captured and tortured. Not to mention he had tons of help, Otacon and Meryl were helping him on the inside by giving him keycards also, not to mention he had 5 or 6 people calling him on a codec and feeding him information.

But don't worry, Snake won't feel his neck getting snapped, it'll be quick and painless

#18 Edited by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

Slight Thread Hijack

Both are in their prime, and have access to any weaponry they've been seen using.

Fight takes place in a dark, large, factory warehouse.

Both start unvisible, at either end of the factory, hunting each other down.

Fight is to the death.

Who takes it?

#19 Edited by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker_the_hacker: @i_like_swords: IDW Comics Solid Snake in a good fight. Twin Snake Solid Snake in a good fight. MGS1, MGS2, and MGS4 Snake may lose IMO.

Solid Snake, the Hero of Shadow Moses, the Lone Soldier of Zanzibar, the guy who took down Outer Heaven on his own. This is Solid Snake, the clone of Big Boss who was the best soldier in the world.

Solid Snake has a 180 IQ, near Super Human physical abilities, and is considered one of the best Martial Artist / Marksmen in the world.

He also has a host of awesome gear.

His Nanites allow him to never suffer severe Stamina issues as well heal quickly. He also has built in Radar system that tracks bio signatures. He also carries HVGs (Heat Vision Goggles), Rope, and the infamous Card Board Box.

He also has a host of Weapons. Nikita Missile Launcher, Socom with Silencers, M9 Tranquilizer, Famas with Laser, C4, Frag Grenades, Claymores, Stun Grenades, Flash Bangs, Chaff Grenades, Combat Knife, and much more as per MGS2 and MGS4.

So with this in mind Snake will do what he does best, Sneak around for a good spot to shoot.

As Mei Ling says, these Genome Soldiers are Gene Enhanced with superior senses to the normal peak human soldier. Snake easy stealths them.

Genome Soldiers are Enhanced in Hearing and Seeing. Snake stealths a Base of these guys easy.

Snake has also beaten many Super Human foes.

Like Psycho Mantis.

This is Psycho Mantis. A very powerful telepath who mentally dominated the entire Genome Army to work for Liquid.

Mantis Mind Controls Meryl.

Mantis mind screws Gray Fox.

In fact he is so powerful that after years of his death, he ends up possessing Screaming Mantis and still manifests his soul to confront Snake!

All that power. Yet Snake's TP resistance is just incredible.

Snake full battle with Mantis. Mantis tries to kill him through Meryl. Then tries to Mind Illusion him which Snake sees through.Then tries TK him. He goes as far to make him feel like he is burning to death. the best part is he could not see Snakes next move via Mind Reading. Mantis has Precognition and he could not see Snakes destiny as Snake said, he forged his destiny.

Ocelot is one of the greatest enemies in the Metal Gear series.

Skip to 1:50-3:00. Even as a youngster his skill with a pistol is insane.Here he is more seasoned and even better skilled.

Ocelot is a insane marksman. Ocelot tries to ambush him to no avail, and then cannot tag Snake who smartly harms Ocelot via steam pipe.

This fight is interrupted by the Cyborg Ninja.

The Cyborg Ninja is insane fast, strong, and has a Sword that cut anything. Take note, as Snake does not allow that sword to touch him! Snake keeps up fine in a tight space thanks to Speed, Skill, Muscle Memory from years of the best Training, and plain Super Human Genes.

As I said, the Cyborg Ninja is insane fast. The Cyborg Ninja simply moves much faster than mass amount of Mach 2 Bullets at 10 feet distance.

In this epic fight, Snake is physically able to match the Ninja. To make this more Impressive is the Cyborg Ninja resume!

This is Grey Fox. One of the best killers in the world and most accomplish member of Fox Hound. At the time he was leagues better than Snake in rankings. On top of this, Fox was already Super Human before being a Cyborg Ninja.

Null is Gray Foxe's old name. A Super Human in speed and skill. Snake battled this guy and whats really impressive is he kept up, out H2H skill, and top it off actually had the strength and moves to harm this Super Armor Exosuit.

Snake is also a very good marksmen.

Here he expertly targets Sniper Wolf's hiding spot, and with great speed suppress Sniper Wolf.

Here he dodges Sniper Wolfs shots running for better positions, then spots here, shoots, and kill her before she can shoot Hal.

Sniper Wolf, one of the best Snipers in the world.

Now I am not saying he carries PSG out here, too much weight, but I am saying his skill with any weapon is pretty insane.

1:10 - 1:25. Snake makes this expert shot with no laser or scope with this M-4.

Anyway I think snake can beat Bucky just like he beat Vamp in H2H in the Comics.

Vamp is as much a bad@$$ in the IDW Comics as he is in the Game.

In the Comics Raiden never makes it to Emma. Snake has to retrieve her and beats Vamp in a simple quick Throat Cut move.

#20 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: My god.. if you haven't already made a Solid Snake respect thread you need to get on that.

One day, we're going to do a CAV; Ninjak vs Solid Snake

However, I haven't read his whole classic series yet, nor do I have a scanner, but one day, we will.

But, yeah.. Solid Snake in his prime likely takes Bucky in a good fight.

#21 Posted by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: The IDW Comics differ from MGS1 and MGS2 Games slightly by showing off how awesome Snake is. Snake is so awesome he ends up beating Vamp and Solidus in MGS2 instead of Raiden who is just worthless. Still Canon with the MGS 3 Game, Metal Gear Games, and still meshes fine with MGS4 game as well.

So I like to use IDW Comics Solid Snake (who Hideo Kojima worked very closely with the artist and writer on it) and it stays in canon with all the Games but the MGS1 and MGS2 game that takes place in the Comic.

#22 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: The IDW Comics differ from MGS1 and MGS2 Games slightly by showing off how awesome Snake is. Snake is so awesome he ends up beating Vamp and Solidus in MGS2 instead of Raiden who is just worthless. Still Canon with the MGS 3 Game, Metal Gear Games, and still meshes fine with MGS4 game as well.

So I like to use IDW Comics Solid Snake (who Hideo Kojima worked very closely with the artist and writer on it) and it stays in canon with all the Games but the MGS1 and MGS2 game that takes place in the Comic.

That would be good. It'd be easier doing it comic-to-comic as well. How much comic content has SS got? Like have they been making them alongside the games or has it only been recently?

#23 Posted by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@i_like_swords: The IDW Comics differ from MGS1 and MGS2 Games slightly by showing off how awesome Snake is. Snake is so awesome he ends up beating Vamp and Solidus in MGS2 instead of Raiden who is just worthless. Still Canon with the MGS 3 Game, Metal Gear Games, and still meshes fine with MGS4 game as well.

So I like to use IDW Comics Solid Snake (who Hideo Kojima worked very closely with the artist and writer on it) and it stays in canon with all the Games but the MGS1 and MGS2 game that takes place in the Comic.

That would be good. It'd be easier doing it comic-to-comic as well. How much comic content has SS got? Like have they been making them alongside the games or has it only been recently?

It was awhile ago. There is 24 comics total. 1-12 is shadow moses and all Snake. 13-24 is mostly Raiden with a little bit of Snake battling Vamp, Solidus, Raiden, Tengu Soldiers, and the Olga.

#24 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@cadencev2 said:

@i_like_swords: The IDW Comics differ from MGS1 and MGS2 Games slightly by showing off how awesome Snake is. Snake is so awesome he ends up beating Vamp and Solidus in MGS2 instead of Raiden who is just worthless. Still Canon with the MGS 3 Game, Metal Gear Games, and still meshes fine with MGS4 game as well.

So I like to use IDW Comics Solid Snake (who Hideo Kojima worked very closely with the artist and writer on it) and it stays in canon with all the Games but the MGS1 and MGS2 game that takes place in the Comic.

That would be good. It'd be easier doing it comic-to-comic as well. How much comic content has SS got? Like have they been making them alongside the games or has it only been recently?

It was awhile ago. There is 24 comics total. 1-12 is shadow moses and all Snake. 13-24 is mostly Raiden with a little bit of Snake battling Vamp, Solidus, Raiden, Tengu Soldiers, and the Olga.

That's pretty cool. I'd definitely have played the games if I wasn't an xbox guy.

#25 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Hey! Quit stealing my thunder you jackass!

#26 Edited by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

IDW Comics Solid Snake in a good fight. Twin Snake Solid Snake in a good fight. MGS1, MGS2, and MGS4 Snake may lose IMO.

The game Solid Snake is still the most skilled version. Obviously Twin Snakes>MGS1 for the most part, however Twin Snakes doesn't have the feats from Sons of Liberty and Guns of the Patriots to back him up. Comics Snake is really impressive, but he didn't really do much in them that he didn't do in the games besides fight Solidus. Feats were just highlighted better since there was no gameplay. However Hideo Kojima has 100% confirmed the DGNs as canon, so it should be ok to mix and match game feats with comic feats (I know some battles have different outcomes, but I'm not talking about using feats from the same battle in two scenarios. Like, Snake's fight with Ocelot was more impressive in the DGN so I would post that version, but his fight with the M1 tank was more impressive in the game, so I'll post that version. Get me?)

Hideo Kojima recommends the DGNs over the actual games

#27 Posted by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see Snake's stealth working on Winter Soldier at all due to his domino mask and dare devil like tech.

And he has things that would probably negate Snake's tech as it has worked against Doctor Doom's technology. Not sure though since it specifically says Camera only in this scan.

#28 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: The first scan is just X-Ray capabilities, it's not detecting anyone, he's just scoping out the building (at least that's what it looks like from the single scan). That's not really going to help find someone since Bucky will probably see right through Snake wherever he is as well.

And like you said, in the second scan he describes a gadget specifically used against cameras. Snake doesn't use cameras.

In any case the OctoCamo Otacon designed is completely resistant to radar and imaging devices anyway.

If these Gekko couldn't detect Snake neither could Bucky.

All that said Snake doesn't need stealth to win since he's a much more skilled marksman and bullet dodger.

#29 Edited by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: I don't think it's X-rays. His arm goes PING PING PING which is a noise and it feedbacks to his mask. Not only that, it goes MAPPING COMPLETE, which he has a continues map of his surroundings and what's' going on around him in red, like dare devil's vision.

Counting what is canon, there's nothing Snake does marksman or bullet dodging wise that puts him on par with Bucky.

If we're talking about comic book Snake (I have the comics, haven't read them in years though) what are his best marksman feats?

#30 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@nickzambuto: I don't think it's X-rays. His arm goes PING PING PING which is a noise and it feedbacks to his mask. Not only that, it goes MAPPING COMPLETE, which he has a continues map of his surroundings and what's' going on around him in red, like dare devil's vision.

Well we can't really assume Bucky will immediately locate Snake based off that single, very unclear and inconclusive scan.

What are Bucky's best marksman feats? I feel this will probably come down to a shootout, unless Bucky is the type to close the distance and go h2h?

#31 Posted by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@nickzambuto: I don't think it's X-rays. His arm goes PING PING PING which is a noise and it feedbacks to his mask. Not only that, it goes MAPPING COMPLETE, which he has a continues map of his surroundings and what's' going on around him in red, like dare devil's vision.

Well we can't really assume Bucky will immediately locate Snake based off that single, very unclear and inconclusive scan.

What are Bucky's best marksman feats? I feel this will probably come down to a shootout, unless Bucky is the type to close the distance and go h2h?

But it's not x-rays judging from the way it works, I'm just letting you know there is no reason why it would ping from his arm. To be far lets just put stealth aside then and discuss if they were shooting at each other fighting each other.

Lol, I asked the same question for Snake. But off the top of my head,

SHIELD TOSS AND MARKSMANSHIP

Times shield throw perfectly so Senator’s face does not get shot.

Throws Shield to save Natasha and de-kneecaps AIM guys with gun:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_34_DCP_0025.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_34_DCP_0027.jpg

After getting shot plus cracking a few ribs, falling out of a window and landing a few stories below, he shoots Crossbones multiple times. Shield reports later that NO INTERNAL ORGANS were hit.

More taking out randoms:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CaptainAmerica046Zone-Avengerpg23.jpg

Manages to fire single explosive round into an assault rifle while the guy is running with a gun tucked under his arm.

Shoots Madame Masque in her mask.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg22.jpg

Shoots Daken in the back of the head while Wolverine and Daken are about to fight

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-016.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-017.jpg

he was fighting Wolverine, Hawkeye and Daredevil all at the same time and giving them hell. Hawkeye tried multiple times to use stealth and fire at Bucky from hidden areas. Here he shoots 3 arrows from behind Bucky and Bucky fires and shoots all 3 arrows down.

The shield tossing feats are important. They show timing, his understanding of guns when he saved the senator and how to predict his surroundings. So even though they are not gun feats, they relate.

The most impressive feats I posted the scan themselves. So marksmanship wise, I would say his best from the top of my head right now is when he shoots crossbones with his handgun on a car that was hardly staying still from a few stories down and purposely missed his internal organs. The other is when he was fighting Wolverine, he turned around and shot 3 of Hawkeye's arrows. This is complete multitasking here as he had an enemy around him everywhere. Wolverine, Dare Devil and Hawkeye and he still managed to pull the feat off.

#32 Edited by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: I kinda... showed..... alot of Marksman feats and Bullet Dodging from Expert shots like Ocelot.....

Post above.

Edit: From IDW Comic Book Solid Snake which by both Pictures looks like we can use reasonably assuming.

#33 Edited by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just going to say this and you guys can post all the proof you guys want. I'm sure there might be another Winter Soldier fan that could elaborate on his feats, and you both know of the respect thread I have made.

I don't mean to totally discredit Snake here, but against Cyborg ninja, I'm sure Frank was holding back by a lot to have an honorable fight. The guy can bullet time easily and deflect tons of gunfire. I don't think Snake's punches are faster than a bullet. I don't think the Vamp fight is relevant either, Vamp let his guard down to get up close to Snake, Snake played possum and caught him off guard. I don't think Bucky would do the same thing if they were in a similar situation. I don't think he would walk up to Snake and talk to him within a inch face to face like that giving Snake an opportunity like that.

Let me ask this. If Snake knew about Wolverine and Hawkeye, would he have performed as equally as impressive as Bucky did? Could he have lasted as long against Wolverine, Hawkeye and then Wolverine, Hawkeye and Dare Devil?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-002.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-003.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-004.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-009.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-010.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Clint%20Barton%20Wolverine%20and%20Daredevil/WinterSolider-Zone-015.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/3230194-winter+soldier+013-zone-007.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/3230195-winter+soldier+013-zone-008.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/3230196-winter+soldier+013-zone-009.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/3230197-winter+soldier+013-zone-010.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/3230198-winter+soldier+013-zone-011.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/3230199-winter+soldier+013-zone-012.jpg

#34 Edited by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Also on top of dodging Sniper Wolf, Ocelot, the Super Speed of the Cyborg Ninja, I have more Bullet Dodging feats from the best.

Here Snake is flat out dodging the Aim of Liquid (who shot 2 Jets down with a Hind!) in this Hind Gunboat. He is dodging all this and manages to Missile the Copter while Die Hard style roping off the building!

Here Snake is using a single shot M9 tranq gun against one of the most decorated of Special Forces of Russia.

Olga. Dodging her gun fire and taking her out with a major handicap.

Snake avoids Raven who is Aiming the .50 Cal Machine Gun on this tank. Add to this Snake is avoiding the worst of the Tank Shells blast Shock Waves that pulp humans into mush! Then snake dodges the fire with a Claymore in hand. Boom.

Speaking of Raven he is no push over either.

Top notch super Human this guy is.

Raven is blasting away with his Mini Gun and Snake is not only Dodging it, he lays a nasty trap of his own to win. This is the Genius that is Snake.

Another example of Snakes genius is with Sniper Wolf.

How do you close in on a expert Sniper of the world? Flash Bang.

Snake Regularly outguns with a freaking Socom pistol Genome Military and Tengu Special Forces!

Here he is with his Pistol killing of Genom Soldiers in the thick of it.

Here he is surrounded and taking out hordes of Tengu with a naked Sword wielding Raiden as his only back up.

Snake has MANY Showings of his Marksmanship and Skill.

Also if we are still not convince on the Stealth side of Snake's skill...

Here he is in a small train car getting the best of a 3 man Spetsnaz Squad, sneaks out of the Train while the next team moves in, and blows it.

Also if we need more H2H feats... I have those too. I already showed Vamp with his inhuman speed and skill being bested by Snake. I showed Snake easily besting the Superior in stats, armor, and extreme skill Gray Fox.

Here Snake actually beats Raiden with total ease even though Raiden was train to be on Snakes level by the Patriots.

Easy day and he is holding back where Raiden thinks he is a traitor.

Next he fights Liquid of all people!

Liquid is no freaking joke!

Here he bests Liquid. What makes this impressive the most is Snake has been wounded, tortured, and fighting a gauntlet of Super Humans and still has the stamina, skill, and strength to beat Liquid in hand to hand.

Finally we have Solidus. Another Clone and one with as much skill and experience as Snake himself.

Solidus easily beats Raiden. Snake with the sword, a weapon we know he is not the best with, defeats Solidus who has his Cyborg Ninja Suit to amp his already Super Humanish stats. We know Snake was stripped of all weapon before this, so he must had use the sword.

Now again this is all IDW Comics Snake who I am debating for cause he is the best Snake by far.

This is simply how I see it going down.

It would be a good fight. However IMO Snake with his Super Human Genes and Skill should beat Winter Soldier in a H2H fight. Snakes Equipment and Sneaking ability should grant a win in Range with all the cover they have to play with.

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: I have respect for Bucky, however the facts are against him.

Snake is a Super Human in Genes. Buckly is a well train Soldier boy.

Snake has had the best training in the world and beaten the best in H2H in his world. Bucky has Training from Cap and been put in a kill shot by Punisher of all people rather pathetically.

Snake has fought Super Humans in every sense of the word as Bucky has. It is not like Bucky faces bigger threats and Snake has not.

Snake has gear and tech that rival Bucky's own.

It would be a good fight, IMO Snake (IDW Comics version) wins.

#36 Edited by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I wasn't even aware Bucky got Cap's shield here, with the shield in hand he take a higher majority now.

I don't see Snake sneaking up on the Winter Soldier, someone that was able to get passed Wolverines senses twice and stalk Wolverine for many months. Most of these feats were written in Wolverine's own series. On top of that, the Winter Soldier has a sonar like mask that maps out everything so I don't think Snake's sealth will work.

Yes, his brother is impressive with a Hind D, but I think Bucky's showings against a Apache, Batroc, Faceless man and canon fodder is more impressive because again, it's not one on one, it's dozens on one.

Bucky faces off against the man with no face (huh? Faces off with no face?), Batroc, canon fodder and an APACHE HELICOPTER!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/CaptainAmerica44Zone-Meganpg17.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/CaptainAmerica44Zone-Meganpg18.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/CaptainAmerica44Zone-Meganpg19.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/CaptainAmerica44Zone-Meganpg20.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/CaptainAmerica44Zone-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/007.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/009.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/010.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/013.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/014.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/020.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/022-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/023-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/024-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/026.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Batroc/027.jpg

I can't imagine IDW Snake doing as well as Bucky did against Wolverine, Hawkey and Daredevil. If he had the shield, I bet he would have done even better against the crew.

Like I said, Snake isn't sneaking up on Bucky. Bucky has stalked Wolverine for months and got past his senses twice.

Follows Wolverine for 3 days without Wolverine knowing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-017.jpg

Continues to follow Wolverine for a month without Wolverine knowing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-021.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-022.jpg

In addition he has the mask mapping. I think it would have been a good fight without the SHIELD, but with it, it goes into Bucky's favor. Bucky's arm has EMPs (if the arm can release a EMP and not disfunction itself then it is EMP resistant, so there goes Chaff Grenades), Electrical shocks, superhuman strength and can deflect gunfire. In addition to his arm, he has the SHIELD in this fight and he is capable of throwing the SHIELD so fast that it can slice robots apart (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/60791/2097751-prv8580_pg3.jpg). He has used the same type of weapons as snake as well, advanced rocket launchers, assault rifles of all kinds, etc. But something Snake doesn't have his Bucky's SHIELD PISTOL, one that has winded Ares and can fire explosive rounds that blow up like small grenades. In addition to the SHIELD being an awesome defense, Bucky's suit is impact resistant and bullet proof, but I doubt Snake is going to fire anything that gets past the SHIELD. Now lastly, Bucky's shield tossing feats are what makes this now a majority.

Lastly, I think in the tiny area they are fighting, the sniping rifle is useless, but the SHIELD is a excellent offense and defensive weapon in these quarters. The area is so small, I don't even see stealth going into play here.

#37 Edited by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d

Lol, I asked the same question for Snake. But off the top of my head,

Sorry, I had already posted my response by the time you put in that edit.

Besides the Crossbone's feat and shooting down Hawkeye's arrows, I don't see any of those scans as particularly impressive. If you wanna talk sniping skills, Solid Snake defeated the greatest sniper in the world with a bullet in his shoulder during a whiteout.

Snake gets shot right before the one minute mark and then proceeds to defeat Sniper Wolf anyway. Characters like Bane are credited as having some of the best pain tolerance around because of feats like taking bullets - but that was a rifle round that David endured. Much bigger, more lethal, and a heckuva lot more painful. Sniper Wolf even has a feat similar to the one Bucky performed against Crossbones, shooting Meryl several times in nonlethal positions before she could hit the ground from about 100 yards away.

Wolf also manages to shoot Meryl once again through the hand (a very small target) before she could reach her pistol. And again Solid Snake killed her during a whiteout, despite her position being unknown to him, completely camouflaged in the snow whereas he stood out like a sore thumb.

Now that said, Snake's area of expertise has always been close-mid range gunfights, not sniping. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms and all forms of military weaponry, and can easily recognize various gun techniques several characters utilize (admittedly not to the extent of his father)

Old Snake makes a pretty decent distance shot directly in the center of Vamp's forehead.

Snake shoots multiple cyphers midair, directly hitting them in the lil' camera thingies on the bottom (they're weak point) from a platform so ricketty that Emma Emmerich could barely crawl without losing her balance.

Snake tags the Hind D's windshield while it's flying quite a distance away in the middle of dodging chain gun fire, then destroys the chopper midair after tanking two missiles. I think this beats out Bucky's Crossbone's feat since Snake did it midair with a very inaccurate weapon, and missiles to the face>falling a few stories (on that topic, Old Snake tanked being catapulted over 5 stories in the air to gain access to Outer Haven and was fine enough to fight an army, despite Meryl getting severely injured when she did the same thing. Solid Snake's Soldier Genes actually make him superhuman in the same vain as Captain America's Super Soldier Serum and Black Panther's Heart Shaped Herb, so if this comes down to CQC Solid Snake should have a stat advantage over Bucky)

Now all these feats are more or less in league with Winter Soldier's showings. In my humble opinion I feel they beat out the feats you showed for the most part, but I won't argue. What really sets Solid Snake apart from Bucky is his consistent tagging of bullet timers. And I'm not talking about peak humans, Snake has shot a legitimate Spider-Man-level speedster, so I've always put him more in line with the Punisher when it comes to accuracy.

Defeats Olga Gurlukovich with just a tranq gun while dodging bullets. Despite not having any formal enhancements besides an abundance of Soldier Genes like Snake himself, Olga is still far beyond peak human in speed.

As the Cyborg Ninja, Olga protects Raiden from a hailstorm of gunfire with her blade (watch through to the end)

Here she again baffles Raiden by vanishing from thin air.

Finally Olga reveals her identity and non lethally blitzes Raiden.

Keep in mind, the Cyborg Ninja garbs were just a disguise. It wasn't an actual exoskeleton and so therefore didn't enhance Olga's stats at all. If anything it weighed her down. Now Olga isn't exactly Spider-Man level but she's still superhumanly fast, and Snake tagged her with just a tranq gun. This is consistent with the fact that he's always been a tactical genius, famous in the world of underground black ops for his unorthodox battle strategies and techniques, so he's more than capable of timing his shots and surprising a foe with an expertly placed bullet.

Snake's most impressive feat without a doubt though is shooting Vamp. This guy is the "Spider-Man-level speedster" I mentioned. It comes down to the simple fact that, even though Winter Soldier is fast, Snake has tagged faster. That simple logic dictates that without the shield, Bucky shouldn't last a very long time against Solid Snake. In contrast, I doubt Bucky has ever shot someone as fast as Solid Snake. David's feats paint him as the more slippery soldier in this battle. He does after all, have hypersonic reaction time in his old age.

In his prime, he's an expert bullet dodger, as displayed against both Olga and Liquid's Hind D in the clips I've already posted.

Revolver Ocelot is another marksman better than Winter Soldier, and even after a prolonged shootout with Solid Snake, he fails to tag the super soldier. Snake is incredibly flexible and his reflexes are unbelievable, so Winter Soldier really isn't the marksman to tag him. Taking on Wolverine, Hawkeye, and Daredevil simultaneously is a great showing of his skill, but Snake makes a living destroying Metal Gears.

@cadencev2 Anything to add?

#38 Edited by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@slimj87d: I have respect for Bucky, however the facts are against him.

Snake is a Super Human in Genes. Buckly is a well train Soldier boy.

Snake has had the best training in the world and beaten the best in H2H in his world. Bucky has Training from Cap and been put in a kill shot by Punisher of all people rather pathetically.

Snake has fought Super Humans in every sense of the word as Bucky has. It is not like Bucky faces bigger threats and Snake has not.

Snake has gear and tech that rival Bucky's own.

It would be a good fight, IMO Snake (IDW Comics version) wins.

I've seen you post those Punisher shots. I don't understand your logic and reasoning behind it. Punisher straight up admits if they went at it Bucky would mop the floor with him and he had to rely on sneak attacking Bucky. Bucky still stalemated him. This is in Punisher's OWN comic too where he admits Bucky would beat him.

Against Punisher:

Punisher takes Bucky by total surprise and Bucky still manages to stalemate him. Punisher admits that heads up he would lose.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/2223875-punishergetswintersoldierdeadtor_1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/2223876-punishergetswintersoldierdeadtor_2.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/2223877-punishergetswintersoldierdeadtor_3.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60791/2223878-punishergetswintersoldierdeadtor_4.jpg

I don't get how this is relevant. Is Snake going to ask Bucky to talk instead of fight and then elbow him in the nose before the fight starts?

#39 Posted by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Even IF, and I say if because I disagree, Snake is a better Marksman, the sniping rifle is useless in this small quarter. And I didn't know that Bucky had the SHIELD either.

Take Bucky's metal arm, the one that allows him to catch Hawkeye's arrows (he actually caught one with his normal arm as well) and deflect Black Widow's widow bites and put Captain America's shield on that left hand now. You just put a indestructible shield which covers his whole upper body on a hand that can catch arrows and deflect gunfire. I don't see much of any of Snake's projectiles doing squat against Bucky, even if I was lead to believe he was a better shooter.

#40 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mean to totally discredit Snake here, but against Cyborg ninja, I'm sure Frank was holding back by a lot to have an honorable fight. The guy can bullet time easily and deflect tons of gunfire. I don't think Snake's punches are faster than a bullet. I don't think the Vamp fight is relevant either, Vamp let his guard down to get up close to Snake, Snake played possum and caught him off guard. I don't think Bucky would do the same thing if they were in a similar situation. I don't think he would walk up to Snake and talk to him within a inch face to face like that giving Snake an opportunity like that.

That's not really a viable argument since there's still no proof the Cyborg Ninja would hold back. That's like me saying Wolverine is one of the greatest fighters in the Marvel Universe and Daredevil is the most agile human in comics and Hawkeye is a better shot than Bucky, so obviously they were all holding back since Winter Soldier doesn't have a single advantage over any of them.

The fight against Vamp is actually super impressive for Snake. That was back when Snake was still using CQB techniques, he couldn't beat Vamp like that so he outsmarted him. Later on when Old Snake goes back to CQC, he legitimately gets the better of Vamp with no aid.

Let me ask this. If Snake knew about Wolverine and Hawkeye, would he have performed as equally as impressive as Bucky did? Could he have lasted as long against Wolverine, Hawkeye and then Wolverine, Hawkeye and Dare Devil?

Yup. He could. By converse there are plenty of opponents Snake has taken on that I can just as easily say Bucky shouldn't be able to deal with.

And I thought we were talking about a gun battle? Now you're back to the stealth arguments and hand to hand. Fact is the fight won't get to that because Snake will shoot Bucky down before he reaches him.

  1. Snake has better accuracy feats
  2. Snake has better bullet dodging feats
  3. Snake is logically a better gunfighter than Bucky

It's very simple. Bucky's only hope is to get the drop on David... now, I know Winter Soldier is pretty good at stealth, but c'mon... you don't sneak up on Solid Snake.

#41 Edited by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

Even IF, and I say if because I disagree, Snake is a better Marksman, the sniping rifle is useless in this small quarter. And I didn't know that Bucky had the SHIELD either.

@slimj87d

Hurk..... I POSTED ONE SNIPING FEAT AND LITERALLY STATED IT'S NOT WHAT SNAKE SPECIALIZES IN!!!

On what grounds do you disagree that Bucky is a better shooter than Snake? In all honesty this comes down to the classic character bias - don't get me wrong, I am not calling you a fanboy. But, as a fan of Bucky, who's read many of his comics and is very knowledgable of his abilities, you are naturally going to choose him because you respect his abilities more. But the feats don't lie, what was presented in this thread is the maximum of what each character is capable of (unless you've got a secret weapon you've been saving) and I don't think you can really argue that the feats I've shown for Snake outweigh those you've shown for Bucky.

The shield isn't really standard equipment for Winter Soldier, so if he needs to rely on an OP stipulation to win, then I think that confirms Snake is generally more skilled. Then again even with the shield, Snake has grenades, rockets, and a variety of other explosives in his standard equipment including remote controlled missiles, and he has the skill to use them effectively. I could also make a case for Snake beating Bucky in CQC if he has a repeat of the Gray Fox incident (can't land a shot on his opponent)

#42 Edited by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Except Snake is Super Human and has better feats than even Punisher who been manhandled alot in CC and Range sadly. Punisher does not have the Super Human Genes or the High Tech Gear Snake has. Punisher has Super Human Durability feats for sure and peak Human strength, but he never dodge the gunfire from expert shots like Snake has, or the strength to harm Cyborg Ninjas through their armor whether they hold back or not. Snake has a better track record against establish Super Beings with real training as well more than Punisher ever showed in a random battle.

That was my point.

Anyway it is clear you and I will agree to disagree.

#43 Posted by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mean to totally discredit Snake here, but against Cyborg ninja, I'm sure Frank was holding back by a lot to have an honorable fight. The guy can bullet time easily and deflect tons of gunfire. I don't think Snake's punches are faster than a bullet. I don't think the Vamp fight is relevant either, Vamp let his guard down to get up close to Snake, Snake played possum and caught him off guard. I don't think Bucky would do the same thing if they were in a similar situation. I don't think he would walk up to Snake and talk to him within a inch face to face like that giving Snake an opportunity like that.

That's not really a viable argument since there's still no proof the Cyborg Ninja would hold back. That's like me saying Wolverine is one of the greatest fighters in the Marvel Universe and Daredevil is the most agile human in comics and Hawkeye is a better shot than Bucky, so obviously they were all holding back since Winter Soldier doesn't have a single advantage over any of them.

The fight against Vamp is actually super impressive for Snake. That was back when Snake was still using CQB techniques, he couldn't beat Vamp like that so he outsmarted him. Later on when Old Snake goes back to CQC, he legitimately gets the better of Vamp with no aid.

Let me ask this. If Snake knew about Wolverine and Hawkeye, would he have performed as equally as impressive as Bucky did? Could he have lasted as long against Wolverine, Hawkeye and then Wolverine, Hawkeye and Dare Devil?

Yup. He could. By converse there are plenty of opponents Snake has taken on that I can just as easily say Bucky shouldn't be able to deal with.

And I thought we were talking about a gun battle? Now you're back to the stealth arguments and hand to hand. Fact is the fight won't get to that because Snake will shoot Bucky down before he reaches him.

  1. Snake has better accuracy feats
  2. Snake has better bullet dodging feats
  3. Snake is logically a better gunfighter than Bucky

It's very simple. Bucky's only hope is to get the drop on David... now, I know Winter Soldier is pretty good at stealth, but c'mon... you don't sneak up on Solid Snake.

I went to the stealth argument because of Cadence. Stealth isn't going to happen in these tiny quarters we both agreed on that. I think I'm being pretty generous mixing canon and non-canon feats here too.

In all your feats, I don't see anything that shows Snake could catch an arrow fired from behind him, specially with Daredevil in your front and Wolverine in your back.

1. Besides running around in circles fighting with Ocelot, I don't see anything Snake did to prove he's a better marksman than Bucky. Bucky again didn't want people to get hurt, so while sprinting he shot an assault rifle out of the Russian sleeper agents hand and blew it up. He was able to shoot Daredevil's billy club out in midair and 3 of Hawkeye's arrows. When he shot the arrows out he was fighting Wolverine and Dare Devil. Unless I missed something, was Snake fighting 2 very good H2H guys when he had to shoot a projectile out in midair.

2. How? What has he done with dodging that is more impressive than Bucky? Just having a fight with Ocelot? With his back turned, Bucky was able to catch Hawkeye's arrows and use them on Wolverine, and that was with his normal hand.

Another thing I want to add, Bucky and Snake are used to fighting other people with guns. But Snake has never encountered a person that uses a SHIELD in battle. He doesn't know the shield is indestructible nor does he know Bucky's mechanical arm will allow him to throw the thing FAST enough to cut through metal objects as well as ricochet around and come back many times.

#44 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Now again this is all IDW Comics Snake who I am debating for cause he is the best Snake by far.

Ehh, I still contest to that. Comic Snake has better bullet dodging feats and maybe CQB but that's about it. Game Snake has performed all the accuracy feats of comic Snake plus more, and he has a lot more strength and endurance showings.

#45 Posted by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Except Snake is Super Human and has better feats than even Punisher who been manhandled alot in CC and Range sadly. Punisher does not have the Super Human Genes or the High Tech Gear Snake has. Punisher has Super Human Durability feats for sure and peak Human strength, but he never dodge the gunfire from expert shots like Snake has, or the strength to harm Cyborg Ninjas through their armor whether they hold back or not. Snake has a better track record against establish Super Beings with real training as well more than Punisher too.

That was my point.

Anyway it is clear you and I will agree to disagree.

Again, the whole Punisher thing is mute. It doesn't make any sense. Punisher had to have Bucky put his guard down and hit him in the nose and that only lead to a stalemate. That wouldn't happen if they straight up just went at it.

Yes, I know we are going in a direction where Nick and you will have to agree to disagree with me :D

#46 Edited by SlimJ87D (11673 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

Even IF, and I say if because I disagree, Snake is a better Marksman, the sniping rifle is useless in this small quarter. And I didn't know that Bucky had the SHIELD either.

@slimj87d

Hurk..... I POSTED ONE SNIPING FEAT AND LITERALLY STATED IT'S NOT WHAT SNAKE SPECIALIZES IN!!!

On what grounds do you disagree that Bucky is a better shooter than Snake? In all honesty this comes down to the classic character bias - don't get me wrong, I am not calling you a fanboy. But, as a fan of Bucky, who's read many of his comics and is very knowledgable of his abilities, you are naturally going to choose him because you respect his abilities more. But the feats don't lie, what was presented in this thread is the maximum of what each character is capable of (unless you've got a secret weapon you've been saving) and I don't think you can really argue that the feats I've shown for Snake outweigh those you've shown for Bucky.

The shield isn't really standard equipment for Winter Soldier, so if he needs to rely on an OP stipulation to win, then I think that confirms Snake is generally more skilled. Then again even with the shield, Snake has grenades, rockets, and a variety of other explosives in his standard equipment including remote controlled missiles, and he has the skill to use them effectively. I could also make a case for Snake beating Bucky in CQC if he has a repeat of the Gray Fox incident (can't land a shot on his opponent)

Just to let you know, I own about 30 Metal Gear Solid action figures, all the games. A mixture of American and Japanese ones too, I had ti import a lot of my things. I actually have 4 collector edition art books and everyone in High School new me as the biggest Solid Snake fan.

So I am not really bias. At one point I was enlisted to try out for the Navy SEALS as well and I'm sure Snake had A LOT to do with that as well. I have been a Snake fan since the 90s, I became a Bucky fan when Captain America Vol 34 came out.

#47 Posted by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Now again this is all IDW Comics Snake who I am debating for cause he is the best Snake by far.

Ehh, I still contest to that. Comic Snake has better bullet dodging feats and maybe CQB but that's about it. Game Snake has performed all the accuracy feats of comic Snake plus more, and he has a lot more strength and endurance showings.

Challenge a Viner.

IDW Solid Snake MGS1 and MGS1 vs your Game Snake MGS1 and MGS2. Lets do it!

#48 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: I think you're misunderstanding the feats I've presented. The Ocelot battle wasn't accuracy on Snake's part, it was speed. Bucky has never been shot at by a marksman of Ocelot's caliber. Catching an arrow isn't as impressive as dodging a bullet, let alone a barrage of bullets from Revolver Ocelot in close quarters. Snake could catch an arrow if he really wanted to considering his other reaction time feats outweigh such an accomplishment, but he can tell just moving slightly out of the way is a heckuva lot more simple. To this day Snake's greatest feat in any category is still dodging a mach 20 Rail Gun blast from Crying Wolf. If bullets and arrows are Bucky's best, Crying Wolf would have killed him.

If you want to just drop it though, that's cool. We can agree to disagree. However,

I think I'm being pretty generous mixing canon and non-canon feats here too.

Neither Cadence nor myself posted a single non canon feat FYI. Hideo Kojima already confirmed the DGN as canon.

#49 Edited by Pokergeist (23181 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@cadencev2 said:

@slimj87d: Except Snake is Super Human and has better feats than even Punisher who been manhandled alot in CC and Range sadly. Punisher does not have the Super Human Genes or the High Tech Gear Snake has. Punisher has Super Human Durability feats for sure and peak Human strength, but he never dodge the gunfire from expert shots like Snake has, or the strength to harm Cyborg Ninjas through their armor whether they hold back or not. Snake has a better track record against establish Super Beings with real training as well more than Punisher too.

That was my point.

Anyway it is clear you and I will agree to disagree.

Again, the whole Punisher thing is mute. It doesn't make any sense. Punisher had to have Bucky put his guard down and hit him in the nose and that only lead to a stalemate. That wouldn't happen if they straight up just went at it.

Yes, I know we are going in a direction where Nick and you will have to agree to disagree with me :D

By the way I have not seen ya in forever. Where ya been? I need to see someone with sense and calcs in these forums again!

#50 Posted by nickzambuto (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@cadencev2:

Now again this is all IDW Comics Snake who I am debating for cause he is the best Snake by far.

Ehh, I still contest to that. Comic Snake has better bullet dodging feats and maybe CQB but that's about it. Game Snake has performed all the accuracy feats of comic Snake plus more, and he has a lot more strength and endurance showings.

Challenge a Viner.

IDW Solid Snake MGS1 and MGS1 vs your Game Snake MGS1 and MGS2. Lets do it!

lol you can't be serious... alright sure, what the heck.