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#1 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok so here goes. Solid Snake Vs Master Chief based in the Amazon jungle, 20 mile radius, both start with a sniper, pistol, SMG, knife. MGS era weapons, Master chief still has all his cyborg feats. So to lay the basis of the battle, they both have handled quite the frays in their respective games, snake having cyborg experience via the gray fox, and slain multiple metal gears, Master Chief having downed Scarabs and Capitol ships, and faced the flood, so who will ti be folks? the master of CQC? or the Spartan? Im tore with this battle.

#2 Posted by joshuagamer (630 posts) - - Show Bio

nice topic! i say that if you take young solid snake and give him metal gear solid 4 weapons, he has a chance

#3 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate to say it (as anyone on this site can tell you) but with all his cyborg feats, Master Chief.... takes a slight majority.

#4 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

also no motion sensor, also i wanna add snake has killed the most skilled sniper in MG history, both the one in snake eater and the legendary sniper wolf, master chief has no real sniping feats that i can name however ive not read all the books, and other forms of media regarding him, which is why this is here, haha im actually curious, but im pulling snake all the way based on just how he can over come anything and everything, just like it was nothing more than merely the "next objective"

#5 Edited by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: mind you gray fox is miles above master chief in terms of cyborg feats, master chief doesnt block bullets? lift multi-ton structures, and i think the grey fox's skills were possibly equal to or greather than that of the chief, however you are right, he could in a sense over power snake, but could he out class him in CQC? I mean he was taught to use momentum to his advantage and no matter the force chief can throw, snake can always throw chief with that exact force he is using, am i correct?

edit:snake also has the matter of his ability to shoot and not be seen, he could stalk the noisy cyborg for days, and jump him given the opportunity, if i had given MC his motion sensor that would have unbalanced this fight i think but given its stealth/technique VS brute strength/defense i think its pretty even now.

#6 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief in a curbstomp Snake has no way of harming Chief unless he has a nuke or something chief has survived atmospheric re-entry. Chief also has him beat in stats,healing and a freaking personal shield unless he doesn't have his suit. Then it would just be a stomp Chief without the suit still has better stats,training since childhood and better healing.

#7 Edited by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_ said:

@nickzambuto: mind you gray fox is miles above master chief in terms of cyborg feats, master chief doesnt block bullets? lift multi-ton structures, and i think the grey fox's skills were possibly equal to or greather than that of the chief, however you are right, he could in a sense over power snake, but could he out class him in CQC? I mean he was taught to use momentum to his advantage and no matter the force chief can throw, snake can always throw chief with that exact force he is using, am i correct?

The thing that worries me about Chief is... his armor is bullet proof. Snake is indeed the man who makes the impossible possible, but I don't see a way he could get around that. The only weapons Snake has that I can see doing much damage is maybe an RPG or the Railgun.

Take that armor away and we'll talk ;)

EDIT: Like immortal said, Chief survived atmospheric re-entry. Forget what I said, not even an RPG or Railgun will help Snake.

#8 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

You say bullet proof armor i say lolheadshot at his facemask which is NOT bullet proof, seeing as how none of the other spartans has been, nor the hell jumpers, nor the spartan 3s, so thats 1 very easy opening, plus chief has weak spots in his armor, just like anything else, and we can all agree snake is the master of finding those spots, given his stealth he could observe chief for hours even days, before taking that shot, and the Mark 2 has been penetrated by bullets before, as well as knives, not on MC but on the previous spartan units.

#9 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_ said:

You say bullet proof armor i say lolheadshot at his facemask which is NOT bullet proof, seeing as how none of the other spartans has been, nor the hell jumpers, nor the spartan 3s, so thats 1 very easy opening, plus chief has weak spots in his armor, just like anything else, and we can all agree snake is the master of finding those spots, given his stealth he could observe chief for hours even days, before taking that shot, and the Mark 2 has been penetrated by bullets before, as well as knives, not on MC but on the previous spartan units.

If you say so, I haven't actually played Halo so I really can't make the call, but from what I know of Chief I just figured he'd be a bit much for Snake. Again, atmospheric re-entry.

#10 Edited by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@decepticondave_ said:

You say bullet proof armor i say lolheadshot at his facemask which is NOT bullet proof, seeing as how none of the other spartans has been, nor the hell jumpers, nor the spartan 3s, so thats 1 very easy opening, plus chief has weak spots in his armor, just like anything else, and we can all agree snake is the master of finding those spots, given his stealth he could observe chief for hours even days, before taking that shot, and the Mark 2 has been penetrated by bullets before, as well as knives, not on MC but on the previous spartan units.

If you say so, I haven't actually played Halo so I really can't make the call, but from what I know of Chief I just figured he'd be a bit much for Snake. Again, atmospheric re-entry.

also cortana is placed in the back of his head at a particular spot, so could a well placed sniper round down him i wonder? thats seen in Halo 2 when he fell to earth they removed her chip from his head, and ive also neglected to mention traps, snake can booby trap like a pro, which has actually placed another idea for a battle in my head haha.

however given this battle is extremely close to call, we do need someone knowledgeable about halo to lay unbiased facts about the spartan to really call this match.

#11 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

Halo weapons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGS weapons

#12 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777 said:

Halo weapons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGS weapons

ummm no halo weapons? did you not read that far? haha

#13 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_ said:

@Immortal777 said:

Halo weapons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGS weapons

ummm no halo weapons? did you not read that far? haha

Your saying that because Spartans can be harmed by Halo weapons that MGS weapons will even faze them.

#14 Posted by Bleeble (44 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777 said:

Master Chief in a curbstomp.

#15 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

hmm, i retract my previous statement and respond with my knowledge of ammunition, given that we dont know the make up of shells in the halo series, or the elements even used to make up chiefs armor, that i am aware of, leads me to believe that no matter what a supersonic bullet, which is pretty much all current era weapons, is still pretty lethal if placed in the face area, but you also have to think that energy weapons have somewhat of a learning curb i would assume, but snake isnt stupid i just dont wanna call energy weapons for some reason, maybe, halo era weapons, excluding covenant tech? energy weapons are just poop.

#16 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bleeble: why? gray fox>MC and snake beat him so a curb stomp is obviously not the case, but nice try haha xD

#17 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8439 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief for the win here. Snake may have better skills, but the Spartan armor requires more powerful weaponry to crack.

#18 Posted by m0ntyb0y (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

How is this not a stomp in MC's favour? What advantages does Snake have?

#19 Posted by Bleeble (44 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_: Chief's armor is super durable, doubles his strength and increases his reaction times to 5 times what they normally are.

#20 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

After Careful reading on stats of the MJOLNIR Powered Assault armor, and finally finding out is only made of titanium alloy, I have decided to change the MGS era weapons to Halo era weapons however, that only includes human weapons, so reload out, but stays basically the same, both sides get a 50. cal, SMG, pistol, titanium knife, now given this change, my faith lies even further in Snake given that Johnson's use of the 50. Cal in the storyline and how it completely obliterates all forms of alien armors and shields, i have to say, snake stalks, and head shots John before he even knows the sneaky devil is even in the trees, Chief cant see the future, nor block bullets, or even react fast enough to dodge or block a surprise sniper shot, his stealth is no where near great enough to hide from snake, given his clunky, bulky exterior, and usual want to run and gun and hope for luck? snake now takes this based purely on his skill with infiltration, and hes an amazing shot, dat vamp headshot? dat sniper wolf kill? The End defeated at his own stalking/sniping game? yeah guys thats the last change im making and was preventing from making to try and make this a hard decision but now that snake can easily hurt the spartan, its over, before chief even has a chance to see him, he has no heat sensors, or tracking skills, its just another hunt in the jungle for the snake. however if the matter managed to come down to CQC it would be close but only because John is a cyborg after all, and has only received MCMAP training as far as i know.

#21 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bleeble: Ok guys listen, gray fox is > MC in every sense of strength, speed, and obviously intelligence, and experience, and snaked bested him?!?!?! and you still claim that MC would curbstomp? i smell fan boys, tbh and given that i have been convinced by above posters to make it halo era weapons this is a curb stomp but no where in the spartans favor lol 20 mile radius, gives snake plenty of time to locate, set up, and kill the spartan, before he even has a chance to have any clue where snake could or would be, lol so please if I am missing something, tell me all about the spartans master sneaking, tracking, sniper, and CQC feats lol, because im not seeing him beating snake given the era change.

#22 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_: You changing the weapons dont change the outcome even halo weapons take awhile to penatrate chiefs armour also he still has the shielding and insta heal. Since it isn't stated how far apart they are Chief puts a bullet in Snakes head of the bat.

#23 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

I also like to add everyone Snake beat in MGS was PIS and game mechanics besides the canon fodder.

#24 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_ said:

nor block bullets, or even react fast enough to dodge or block a surprise sniper shot The End defeated at his own stalking/sniping game?

Snake dodged a sniper shot, if Chief's armor is stated as enhancing his reaction time to 5 times that of before then I'm sure he can to. And to be fair, that was Big Boss who beat The End, not Snake. I know there clones but still.

#25 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777: i was under the impression 20 mile radius ment furthest distance? lol trying to catch technicalities for the spartan i guess, but sadly thats what the 20 mile radius was meant for was distance to be apart lol, i should have been more clear i suppose but seeing as how i meant what i meant when i said 20 miles, a head shot in halo multiplayer is a 1 shot? xD im sorry but once again the 50. has proven to easily bust down the energy shield, and would tear right through the weakest part of the Mark armor, which is the head lol, all this wanting to change to halo era weapons lost this battle for MC. snake has the means to 1 shot him now, and you cant tell me MC will get the jump on snake because that doesnt happen, ever, the master of infiltration doesnt get spotted unless he wishes to be spotted and i like MC as much as the next person, but given the facts, and the location, and the distance, and the fact that snake has a halo era 50. cal, i think this goes to snake, and im sticking to that until valid points arise that can prove or somehow domstrate otherwise, because 1 there will most likely not be any CQC even if there was snake out reactioned the gray fox who IS faster and stronger than MC, proven, look up the gray fox suit, and look up MC suit, facts are clear haha, and also while you are at it, look at where it states that the helm is far weaker than the rest of the suit.

#26 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777 said:

I also like to add everyone Snake beat in MGS was PIS and game mechanics besides the canon fodder.

That doesn't even make any sense. Do you even really know what PIS is? PIS is Plot Induced Stupidity. A character doing something he normally couldn't do for the sake of the plot.

If Snake's feats are consistant, AKA he does things of the same caliber repeatedly, it's not PIS, it's a feat. He beat Gray Fox, but he also destroyed Metal Gear, CQCed Vamp, went through the microwave room, and so on. He is consistant. Therefore not PIS.

#27 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: given big boss and snake are not the same person, they have the same thinking process, and the same physical feats, despite the clones defection with the sickness, and that doesnt show till way later in snakes later years, and this is snake in his prime lol. and were talking halo era 50. nobody dodges a 50. cal 2,799 ft/s i think even gray fox would have issues with that round, given the sheer force and speed at which that round travels.

#28 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_ said:

@nickzambuto: given big boss and snake are not the same person, they have the same thinking process, and the same physical feats, despite the clones defection with the sickness, and that doesnt show till way later in snakes later years, and this is snake in his prime lol. and were talking halo era 50. nobody dodges a 50. cal 2,799 ft/s i think even gray fox would have issues with that round, given the sheer force and speed at which that round travels.

Fair enough.

#29 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

@decepticondave_: LOL what Im to understand is your saying Snake beats MC because MC just stands around clueless about what to do while Snake snipes him. Okay I have to change my vote because of that logic.

#30 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777: you sound like you are having trouble understanding me so here ill break it down for you, snake would FIND MC, before MC would find snake, period, MC doesnt have to sit still for snake to shoot him which is why i posted the very highly regarded sniping feats of snake, and his infiltration should be a given?!?! do you think snake is gonna run in guns blazing? hell no thats not his style, he would wait for the RIGHT time, and yes there will be a RIGHT time, lol he cant cover his face forever, and seeing as how chief has no tracking skills once again i have to mention this again i suppose, he will NOT find snake he barely noticed the arbiter when he was cloaked and the arbiter was RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM ??? lol, and he may be able to hear but the snake that doesnt move, doesnt make a sound? and snake has snuck up on countless countless soldiers, and super humans. so please tell me how MC can catch him?

#31 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@Immortal777 said:

I also like to add everyone Snake beat in MGS was PIS and game mechanics besides the canon fodder.

That doesn't even make any sense. Do you even really know what PIS is? PIS is Plot Induced Stupidity. A character doing something he normally couldn't do for the sake of the plot.

If Snake's feats are consistant, AKA he does things of the same caliber repeatedly, it's not PIS, it's a feat. He beat Gray Fox, but he also destroyed Metal Gear, CQCed Vamp, went through the microwave room, and so on. He is consistant. Therefore not PIS.

I meant CIS for the villians who could have killed him at anytime but didn't for whatever stupid reason.

#32 Posted by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777: hmm so you are saying downing a scarab and downing 3 metal gears are different forms of feats based on how easily the main character defeated those? or what? im slightly confused on this, please clarify

#33 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777 said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Immortal777 said:

I also like to add everyone Snake beat in MGS was PIS and game mechanics besides the canon fodder.

That doesn't even make any sense. Do you even really know what PIS is? PIS is Plot Induced Stupidity. A character doing something he normally couldn't do for the sake of the plot.

If Snake's feats are consistant, AKA he does things of the same caliber repeatedly, it's not PIS, it's a feat. He beat Gray Fox, but he also destroyed Metal Gear, CQCed Vamp, went through the microwave room, and so on. He is consistant. Therefore not PIS.

I meant CIS for the villians who could have killed him at anytime but didn't for whatever stupid reason.

When could the villains of easily killed him? Please name an instance as the only one I can come up with is Vamp in MGS2, and he let Snake go because he wasn't sure what Solidus would want to do with him.

#34 Posted by Immortal777 (7735 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Im not getting into video game machanics with you again

#35 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777 said:

@nickzambuto: Im not getting into video game machanics with you again

Again? I don't recall us ever having a conversation. And I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. Again, how is everything Solid Snake ever did CIS?

#36 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3363 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief

#37 Posted by nick_hero22 (7229 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief

#38 Edited by decepticondave_ (185 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferdelance: @nick_hero22: The clear winner is snake 8/10 times snake would get the jump on him, given that MC can get in close however those bouts would go to MC. Dont just state a victor without having facts to back it up, and as ive stated before, gray fox out classes MC, and snake outclasses gray fox, so that leads me to believe that 8/10 snake given he has a 50.

#39 Edited by albinojunk (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Master chief has been training since the age of 6. At 14, he was at the zenith of human potential. He had augmentations to make himself faster with his body and mind, and strong enough to flip tanks. In the halo universe, he's incredibly nimble and fast. He was fast enough to slap a missile away from himself. And I haven't even begun talking about how impervious he is to snake due to the alloy of his suit and also his shields. His mind works faster and with the mark VI suit, it's said he can react almost instantaneously. Don't get me wrong, snake is an incredible soldier, but master chief.. He's a super soldier. He's killed thousands and thousands of aliens ranging from 5 feet tall to the unbelievable height of a hunter standing straight up. He has also killed thousands of flood, and he saved earth to date, 3 times. 1 from the covenant, one from the flood, and one from the forerunners. He has survived atmospheric reantry twice, (I'm not sure if the one in halo 2 counts) once on earth and recently in halo 4. He's tussled with enemies who can kill scores of strong, capable humans. And then there's cortana. I won't get into that but she can pretty much get him out of any bad situation. Masterchief is on par with snake before augmentations and without armor. And even then, the battle between them would be like 50/50. Current 2557 masterchief, is unstoppable. Period.

#40 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@decepticondave_ said:

@nickzambuto: mind you gray fox is miles above master chief in terms of cyborg feats, master chief doesnt block bullets? lift multi-ton structures, and i think the grey fox's skills were possibly equal to or greather than that of the chief, however you are right, he could in a sense over power snake, but could he out class him in CQC? I mean he was taught to use momentum to his advantage and no matter the force chief can throw, snake can always throw chief with that exact force he is using, am i correct?

The thing that worries me about Chief is... his armor is bullet proof. Snake is indeed the man who makes the impossible possible, but I don't see a way he could get around that. The only weapons Snake has that I can see doing much damage is maybe an RPG or the Railgun.

Take that armor away and we'll talk ;)

EDIT: Like immortal said, Chief survived atmospheric re-entry. Forget what I said, not even an RPG or Railgun will help Snake.

Sigh. Even derange midget will tell ya the Atmosphere Re Entry is not a feat of durability. MC can free fall. So can Ultimate Cap. He has Halo drop with no Chute.

Look at this picture. His Armour and Shields cant survive the Heat Re Entry. He has to shield himself from the worst. Also in the Games (Including Halo 4) his Armour goes from Pristine to all fug up from the gun fire he takes.

Also watching the Youtube Videos for the Franchise he cant take hits from 5+ Toners without major damage.

Point is Nick Small arms fire wont harm him at all. Barret .50 Cal with Depleted uranium Ammo will. So would a RPG and Rail Gun.

In this sceanario the Armour is too much with what Snake has to work with.

#41 Posted by nickzambuto (14885 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto said:

@decepticondave_ said:

@nickzambuto: mind you gray fox is miles above master chief in terms of cyborg feats, master chief doesnt block bullets? lift multi-ton structures, and i think the grey fox's skills were possibly equal to or greather than that of the chief, however you are right, he could in a sense over power snake, but could he out class him in CQC? I mean he was taught to use momentum to his advantage and no matter the force chief can throw, snake can always throw chief with that exact force he is using, am i correct?

The thing that worries me about Chief is... his armor is bullet proof. Snake is indeed the man who makes the impossible possible, but I don't see a way he could get around that. The only weapons Snake has that I can see doing much damage is maybe an RPG or the Railgun.

Take that armor away and we'll talk ;)

EDIT: Like immortal said, Chief survived atmospheric re-entry. Forget what I said, not even an RPG or Railgun will help Snake.

Sigh. Even derange midget will tell ya the Atmosphere Re Entry is not a feat of durability. MC can free fall. So can Ultimate Cap. He has Halo drop with no Chute.

Look at this picture. His Armour and Shields cant survive the Heat Re Entry. He has to shield himself from the worst. Also in the Games (Including Halo 4) his Armour goes from Pristine to all fug up from the gun fire he takes.

Also watching the Youtube Videos for the Franchise he cant take hits from 5+ Toners without major damage.

Point is Nick Small arms fire wont harm him at all. Barret .50 Cal with Depleted uranium Ammo will. So would a RPG and Rail Gun.

In this sceanario the Armour is too much with what Snake has to work with.

In that case, just give Snake the chance for stealth, and he can easily snipe MC out with the Rail Gun.

#42 Posted by Drache64 (339 posts) - - Show Bio

master cheif's sheilds recharge.... I'd say MC is snake in the future. Snake is great but MC is great with better gear and an AI to assist him. He also moves at speeds that can break normal human bones (as described in the books: a marine puts on the mjonlr armor that amplifies movement. he moves his hand and breaks all of the bones in his arm)

#43 Posted by Kenboyofenaris (6 posts) - - Show Bio

A 14 year old Jon117 would kill Snake in about 5 seconds. He'd hit Snake in the head and Snake's skull would turn into dust, anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't the slightest hell what they're talking about

#44 Posted by Kenboyofenaris (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: You know absolutely nothing about Halo, you have no knowledge of the books or the games.

Do you know how I know this? Because if you played or even watched videos from Halo Reach you would see that Noble 6, who's a Spartan 3 and therefore inferior to Jon in both augmentations and armor, survived falling through orbit in the manner that Chief did. Surviving burning through the atmosphere is a durability feat, surviving a drop from several miles from orbit to the surface is a durability feat

Just accept that you haven no idea what you're talking about, and in the future don't talk about things that you are clearly uneducated on

#45 Posted by TheTmac (472 posts) - - Show Bio

MC stomps,if you read the books you would know that he is probably more stealthy than Snake.I have played all the mgs games and Snake has done nothing to put him on MCs level.

#46 Posted by justleader (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

Master Chief wins

#47 Posted by Mekboy (1201 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kenboyofenaris said:

A 14 year old Jon117 would kill Snake in about 5 seconds. He'd hit Snake in the head and Snake's skull would turn into dust, anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't the slightest hell what they're talking about

#48 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kenboyofenaris said:

@CadenceV2: You know absolutely nothing about Halo, you have no knowledge of the books or the games.

Do you know how I know this? Because if you played or even watched videos from Halo Reach you would see that Noble 6, who's a Spartan 3 and therefore inferior to Jon in both augmentations and armor, survived falling through orbit in the manner that Chief did. Surviving burning through the atmosphere is a durability feat, surviving a drop from several miles from orbit to the surface is a durability feat

Just accept that you haven no idea what you're talking about, and in the future don't talk about things that you are clearly uneducated on

LOL uh huh :). "I played da game and read da books, Im da best Team Match Player of aaaal time" don't mean crap here guy. I played Halo 1-4. I read the pages of MC "feats" on this website more than anyone. I watch the Youtube Live action Videos put out for the game as prequels.

He is equal to a Space Marine (infact hes a direct ripoff since the books came out) from Games Workshop.

He is a 2-3 Toner. He has Steel Bones. He has Power Armour Equivalent Armour (That has been damage thru mass small fire). He has Shields that can barely Tank a RPG Blast. He has 5 times human Reaction at best. He is a Sharp Shooter (his CC skills are horrendous). Ontop of all this he has enhance Human Mind. I guess you can throw out Cortanna now since she is non existent lol.

Point is MC is not Invincible and can H2H hulk as some of you Fanboys believe.

Solid Snake can beat MC with the right Gear as he beaten Cyber Ninjas, Metal Gears, and Teams of Super Human Military Equipped Squads.

He cant win here with what he has as MC is a Small Tank in that armour.

#49 Posted by grimlock (1567 posts) - - Show Bio

Chief!

#50 Edited by Drache64 (339 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadenceV2 you need to read the Halo Origin story to understand why MC would win... that book alone explains that in his armor he can move faster than humanly durable, which means even if a human could move as fast as him it would break him. Also in the book you see he took out a spec ops team at age 14, and was practically ghosting when he was finished training. I only played MGS that was on xbox1 which means i know very litte of snake. so I am merely trying to establish MC feats more clearly here. I think people forget some of his best feats because you can't see them played out very well in a video game.