Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow vs. The Ninja Turtles...

So i might have told you that i was inspired to write a story about the trutle's origins on fan fic (the idea was stuck in my head for a while) and i would like your opinion, WERE THE TURTLES MANIPULATED BY SPLINTER?? Splinter states (in the comic) that the purpose of training the turtles was to avenge Yoshi, (the new cartoon has a more passive splinter who wisely tries avoiding the foot out of love for his children while the turtles decide to take the action of hunting the foot). Maybe Splinter used the youth and strength/skill of the turtles for vengeance, and the turtles were his pawns, BUT the father-son relationship is built up over time

turtles win this they are stronger just as fast just as skilled the only advantage that the joe ninjas have are weapons but numbers and physical superiority will prevail here.

Snake and Storm Shadow win if this is the current IDW versions being used here. I'd back the Turtles if the Mirage versions were being used.

The Arashakage clan should take this based on my knowledge. Either of them could arguably fight the four. Snake Eyes also uses an uzi, Storm Shadow is no slouch himself and if one of the two slinks away and enter the Arashakage mindset?

Ohhhhhhh man.

The turtles are just as fast/faster? Please provide evidence of this. The Joe Ninjas are fast enough to deflect bullets with swords, catch arrows with ease, move faster than the human eye can follow, chase down a guy on a motorcycle from behind etc.

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They are just as skilled? All of them? You are sure? How many styles do they know? What kind of skill feats do they have?

Storm Shadow is a Grandmaster of the Arashikage Ninja Clan, as well as a master in 5 other martial arts. Snake-Eyes is the clan's greatest student ever, and a master of dozens of other martial arts. They are both considered master swordsmen and experts with all small arms, melee weapons, and throwing weapons.They have both been trained in various ways by the military including special ops. Storm Shadow is also a master archer. They have various pseudo-mystical abilities, heightened senses, can fight blind, and are exceptional tacticians. They are also just as familiar with each other as the turtles are. They have been training and fighting together for years and years and share an unbreakable bond.

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I'm sorry but the Joes are faster, more skilled, and have the advantage in gear. Mikey and Donnie aren't going to last too long in this match and when it comes down to 2 v. 2 with Leo and Raph are going to find out Snake and Storm aren't just generic Foot Ninjas.

@lunacyde: do cartoon feats count?

I am under the impression that they do not, but I don't know that the versions were specified in the OP.

@lunacyde: I do agree that the Joes win, but the IDW Turtles easily deflect laser off their weapons and have a big strength advantage. If you're interested in a few feats check out @tparks thread: TMNT IDW - Respect Thread - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Comic Vine

I will have to visit the respect thread to gauge the Turtles strength level but I think some people underestimate the Joe Ninja's strength as well. They can punch through concrete with no trouble, rip chains out of a concrete wall, headbutt through a reinforced battle helmet, and bench 600 lbs.

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@lunacyde: Nice. The TMNT are in the tons though. Some of their feats are insane. I think gear and more variety is what give Joes the win.

Are you talking IDW versions....or 2003 cartoon versions? Because I don't remember any feats putting them in the tons....unless maybe 2 tons, maybe.

@lunacyde said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@lunacyde: I do agree that the Joes win, but the IDW Turtles easily deflect laser off their weapons and have a big strength advantage. If you're interested in a few feats check out @tparks thread: TMNT IDW - Respect Thread - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Comic Vine

I will have to visit the respect thread to gauge the Turtles strength level but I think some people underestimate the Joe Ninja's strength as well. They can punch through concrete with no trouble, rip chains out of a concrete wall, headbutt through a reinforced battle helmet, and bench 600 lbs.

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Joe's are BA's, but I don't think they compete physically with the turtles at any level, whether it's speed, strength, or durability. Turtles are actually above peak human and in the low level superhuman territory. I put a few scans in the spoiler block, but I got annoyed using my respect thread that is all glitchy. :/

Let me know if you want to see anything else, they have tons of stuff, but my old respect thread is so screwed up from some glitch on this site.

It only took three of them to push this massive statue over. You can see how tiny they are in comparison to the statue. This feat alone puts them at above 10 tons of strength each, because this stature has to be at least 40-50 tons if not more..

To be honest though, this is by far their highest end strength feat. I don't actually put them at consistently 10 tons, but they are consistently above peak human. They have the strength to jump at heights that you see in Spider-Man comics.

One of them through this foot soldier through a tall window, and a long ways into shredder.

They have the durability to tank falling from the top of a 6 story building.

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IDW. One, my guess is Raph. Through a goon at least 50 feet and 30 feet up and he when flying through a window and into the Shredder. That is an insane feat. And in an Infestation tie in that canon they drop a giant concrete pillar on his monster thing.

Just read Leo's strength feats in that thread and literally 95% of that stuff can be replicated by Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow. I also believe there is a little bit of over exaggeration of strength level required for a few of those feats.

@lunacyde: when i said that i was counting the cartoon versions.

Counting the cartoon versions Storm Shadow has taken a tank apart with his bare hands.

@lunacyde: the turtles brought down a 50ft krang and the tecnodrone.

not to mention fought cosmically powered alien children that could alter reality.

@tparks:

I'm not sold on the turtles being any more than 2 tons. That scan is just too vague and inconsistent to draw any conclusions about strength level. In the earlier panels the monster doesn't appear to be THAT much bigger than Leo, and then suddenly it appears to be huge. The dimensions of everything on that page is really inconsistent. It's also unclear how much force it would take to tip that non-descript statue that very well may have had significant structural damage to it already.

As for the leaping...

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With one arm tosses a ninja across the room from a laying/kneeling position, just woken up.

4 Story drop easy....also scaled 4 stories in seconds...then throws him across the room with literally no leverage.

The ninjas who aren't mutant ninja turtles.

@lunacyde: I actually think 2 tons is where they consistently are as well. They have the potential for higher, as seen in a few feats, but they are 90% of the time around Cap in physicals, except I'd probably give them better durability then Cap. I'd post some scans of durability, but I'm on my phone.

I would argue that any one turtle would be a good one on one match against Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow. The amount of highly skilled and superhuman characters they have fought and beat has left them a very impressive record at this point. The two Joes haven't fought as many notable characters as the turtles, because each supporting character and villain in the Tmnt universe gets several issues devoted to showing their skills. I can take characters they consistently beat like Karai, Alopex, Slash, Hun, Krang, etc... and use them in a CaV against other skilled street level characters, and give a great debate with them. I've used Karai in debates several times now, and am convinced she could be a great match for these Joes, but Leo has one-shotted her. I've also used Slash and Krang in low mid tier debates and they hold up just fine. The Turtles still get a rep of not beating anyone with skill, but at this point, it's far from the case, and even better then some of the DC and Marvel characters who are similar in level. They can compete with any character below Shredder level and win, which these two definitely are. I'd even argue that they have surpassed the Mirage turtles at this point.

Because there are all four turtles in this, I'd honestly give them at least 8-9/10. They have better feats against better characters. The joes have great feats, but just not enough against high level characters like the turtles.

http://youtu.be/6HZ5V9rT96M

Here it shows the TMNT being awesome

I agree on the durability. Strength wise I see consistency around the Cap range or slightly lower. The Joes are a notch lower than this but still in peak human range. Speed-wise the Joe ninjas have better feats. Skills, likewise.

I am sorry, but none of the characters you mentioned can stack up against Storm Shadow or Snake-Eyes 1 v. 1. I'd love to have a separate debate devoted to that if you like.

The Joes also get mocked for not having good enough villains but truly the only thing that keeps a lot of them from being viable debate characters is limited appearances. Wraith is a high level martial artist, can turn invisible, has various tech in his suit, and is completely invulnerable to harm. he took an RPG to the chest without a scratch. The Blue Ninja's are basically ninja-trained Terminators with lightsabers. Sei Tin, Firefly, Slice and Dice, etc the list goes on, are all capable foes limited only by number of appearances and feats.

I am sorry, but Snake-Eyes or Storm Shadow would embarass Mikey or Donnie in a head to head.

@lunacyde:

I am sorry, but Snake-Eyes or Storm Shadow would embarass Mikey or Donnie in a head to head.

Mikey is up with Leo as best IDW turtle. Raph and Don are the least impressive.

Snake Eyes and Stormshadow. Shredder can beat the turtles, I think these two can.