#1 Edited by Cjdavis103 (9969 posts) - - Show Bio

Movie feats for both

Zilla is bloodlusted

Smaug cannot fly

battle takes place in new york

Bonus round The US military is on the sceen and is trying to kill both of them

#2 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

Im guessing u mean Godzilla right

an Smaug murders Godzillla now the new one Idk haven't seen the movie yet but yea smaug wins this

#3 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9969 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Edited by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9969 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: woops did not see that Smaug still wins if he can survive molted gold an then go on to destroy a town im sure he can handle the US army :P

#7 Edited by Frocharocha (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? Smaug can fly? That`s all? (No offense)

1998 version was steping on tanks and beating the military. It also had i'ts atomic breath``, which was just a stupid hurracaine like breath.

Also the military can`t do shit to Zilla hard skin makes him invunerable to standart weaponry. But they can probably kill Smaug by themselfs.

Zilla stomps really hard.

#8 Edited by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? Smaug can fly? That`s all? (No offense)

Godzilla already defeated a flying three headed dragon which weighted over 75,000 tons and was a planey buster. Twice.

Also the military can`t do shit to Godzilla, insane regeneration and tough skin makes him invunarable to standart weaponry. But they can probably kill Smaug by themselfs.

Godzilla stomps really hard.

Um this is Godzilla form the 1998 movie not classic Godzilla an even If it was he wouldn't Stomp Smaug hard :/ be a good fight but im sure Smaug would come out on top.

#9 Posted by Frocharocha (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@frocharocha said:

Really? Smaug can fly? That`s all? (No offense)

Godzilla already defeated a flying three headed dragon which weighted over 75,000 tons and was a planey buster. Twice.

Also the military can`t do shit to Godzilla, insane regeneration and tough skin makes him invunarable to standart weaponry. But they can probably kill Smaug by themselfs.

Godzilla stomps really hard.

Um this is Godzilla form the 1998 movie not classic Godzilla an even If it was he wouldn't Stomp Smaug hard :/ be a good fight but im sure Smaug would come out on top.

Sorry i already edited. Anyway Zilla is way bigger than Smaug.

#10 Edited by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm said:

@frocharocha said:

Really? Smaug can fly? That`s all? (No offense)

Godzilla already defeated a flying three headed dragon which weighted over 75,000 tons and was a planey buster. Twice.

Also the military can`t do shit to Godzilla, insane regeneration and tough skin makes him invunarable to standart weaponry. But they can probably kill Smaug by themselfs.

Godzilla stomps really hard.

Um this is Godzilla form the 1998 movie not classic Godzilla an even If it was he wouldn't Stomp Smaug hard :/ be a good fight but im sure Smaug would come out on top.

Sorry i already edited. Anyway Zilla is way bigger than Smaug.

What makes u think He bigger in Height sure since Godzilla stands but Smaug was pretty tall even on all four legs An im sure Godzilla is not the much taller than him :/ Smaugs got this

#11 Edited by GhostRider2 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@frocharocha: i was wondering about size, didn't saw the hobbit but i knew he can't be american Godzilla size.

#12 Edited by KaijuKingGojira (1440 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

@kaijukinggojira: Nah be a good fight but I think Smaug would win after a really good fight though

#14 Edited by KaijuKingGojira (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: You don't know that much about Godzilla, do you?I really don't want to have to go over feats. Smaug is nowhere near Godzilla teir. He would God Stomp Smaug and put him in his place.

He once crushed an atomic sized explosion in his bare hands, and that's just a low showing of feats.

#15 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

@kaijukinggojira: I Know a lot about Godzilla thx two things this isn't the classic original Godzilla.this is the 1998 movie Godzilla. 2 Smaug is very powerful Godzilla is not stomping him in anyway

#16 Edited by Onemoreposter (4242 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: Movie Feats only?

I was only unimpressed with Smaug in the film. Godzilla was tanking heavy artillery and smashing through steel buildings like butter.

Zilla wins 10/10 ESPECIALLY is Smaug is grounded. Same for bonus round.

@kaijukinggojira Read the OP man. Your talking about the wrong Godzilla.

#17 Edited by Nomar (565 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as people like to bash 98 Zilla, he'd beat Smaug. I hope people just aren't voting based on preference. Smaug would have been taken down easier by modern military than Zilla was IMO. Also 98 Zilla is bigger I believe. The only real advantage Smaug has is flight.

#18 Edited by KaijuKingGojira (1440 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: @onemoreposter: I know what the OP stated but it's a complete fallacy to say that Smaug would beat The Japanese Godzilla in a good fight.

As it stands this is true until you prove me wrong. Smaug is nowhere near Godzilla tier.

And I'm not playing a little fanboy game here. It's just that you have to consider power-scaling,which Godzilla outclasses Smaug by a phenomenal majority.

#19 Edited by Cjdavis103 (9969 posts) - - Show Bio

@kaijukinggojira: I think that was his opinion on this fight not the outer Godzilla

#20 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: Movie Feats only?

I was only unimpressed with Smaug in the film. Godzilla was tanking heavy artillery and smashing through steel buildings like butter.

Zilla wins 10/10 ESPECIALLY is Smaug is grounded. Same for bonus round.

This.

#21 Edited by thelocust619 (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: I can't take it, man...call him Zilla, that's his official name. I'm readin the thread n I can tell that's the cause of confusion...kingkaijugojira is talkin about Japanese GZ cuz of it lol this thing is not "god" anything

But on to the actual debate...uh..correct me if I'm wrong, but Smaug was killed with an arrow, right? So it was in his "special place" n hard to hit, w e, it was still just an arrow? I think, for once, Zilla's sidewinder+ durability could actually be enough here lol I mean he can burrow through rock so fast the military loses sight of him, if he just 'burrowed' at Smaug that would be pretty damaging. However, fire breath could be an issue because Zilla is "colder than the buildings around it", meaning a greater temperature change from cold to hot. This could possibly shock his system n lock his muscles as he burns.

But alas....the size difference...Zilla is no doubt larger...I'm assuming this is the 50 meter tall, 500 ton one and not the 20,000 ton FW version, but even then....n this thing can't fly away lmao oh boy....yea Zilla just bullys it to death like the big, animalistic dumbsh1t she is lol.

#22 Edited by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: I'll say Godzilla like I have been an I know which Godzilla he is referring to I was trying to tell him That Smaug is going up against the more modern Godzilla. In my opinion I Believe Smaug could win both fights but of course not easily with the classic Japanese version.

Smaug was not killed with any old regular arrow far from a regular arrow they were arrow forged to kill dragons specifically by a dwarf king assuring that it was one of the best arrow's ever made at the time an it took two to loosen a scale.

As for height I don't believe that the Japanese Godzilla is much bigger than size unlike the American version which is taller but you also have to remember Smaug stands on all for legs am was still very large.

#23 Posted by MagnificentStorm (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

@onemoreposter: Smaug took a bath in boiling gold I think that makes him equal with Godzilla

#24 Edited by Freefa11 (2469 posts) - - Show Bio

From the movie and the book we pretty much know at this point that Smaug is going to get killed by an iron shaft fired from a ballista. Yes, it will strike his weak point, but that weak point (per the movie) was created by a previous shot from a ballista. So basically, it is theoretically possible to kill Smaug with 2 well placed ballista shots.

I just can't see any way for a weapon like that to take down Zilla. Even a direct shot to the eye wouldn't have enough penetration to hit anything vital.

Smaug is doubtlessly the cooler villain, from a much, much better movie, but that doesn't mean he'd win. I think he is greatly outclassed here in strength and durability.

#25 Posted by MetalJimmor (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm:

Smaug is massively, hilarious, and indisputably weaker than the Japanese Godzilla in every possible category. Smaug was killed by a normal, albeit lucky, arrow in the books and was damaged by a ballista shot in the movie's backstory. Even the weakest Toho Godzilla walks through barrages of missile fire, heavy artillery, and vast expanses of landmines with the same ease we might walk through the rain. Smaug is also barely a third of Godzilla's size, and I am speaking in terms of body mass, not just height. Godzilla's breath is also capable of instantly melting tanks as a low showing. Smaug's fire couldn't even melt the stone the dwarves were hiding behind.

As for the actual debate. Smaug does better here, but I can't see a way Smaug can dish out enough damage to harm Zilla. Zilla was taking gunfire without much trouble. At the same time Zilla was cut by that fishing boat it tore a part, and was killed by those missiles. Granted the missiles are far more destructive than Smaug's fire. Smaug is smaller than Zilla as well. He moves on all fours and has a very thin frame to Zilla's bulkier build. Zilla was also ripping through steel and concrete skyscrapers like they were made of soft soil. Smaug was only smashing through chiseled stone. This suggests Zilla would win in a physical battle through greater size, weight, and strength, and a much larger set of jaws. Smaug could burn Zilla with fire, but I don't see that really doing much to phase Zilla, which means Smaug would have to come in close to deal any damage. At which point he'd be torn a part.

I am assuming Smaug can fly here because without flight he is severely lacking in mobility compared to Zilla, and mobility is his only real advantage.

#26 Edited by Vaeternus (9558 posts) - - Show Bio

Smaug. Sure he cant fly here but has armor way more than godzilla. Rockets and wire too out zilla..

So smaug for me.

98 zilla=smaug stomps

Godzilla classic owns smaug

#27 Posted by ShootingNova (20839 posts) - - Show Bio

Godzilla should win the main fight. In the films Smaug's weak point was generated because an arrow hit him there. And frankly, that kind of damage won't be nearly as effective against Godzilla.

In the bonus, Godzilla would last longer because Smaug could get hit by.... well, a lot of things. US weapons would attack him everywhere and his vulnerable spot would likely be covered as well.

#28 Posted by thelocust619 (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: right and these well made arrows are somehow better than building+ durability? At least as far as Zilla is concerned...because sorry no arrow is taking down any incarnation of Zilla or Godzilla. And no, its not the most modern, Millennium Godzilla is the most modern version, this one failed in every sense to actually "be" Godzilla, hence the official name.

I dont quite think uk what you're talking about if you think that thing has a chance against a 20,000 ton (minimum) living nuclear reactor. It has literally no hope...like not a "hard battle" at all...its just plain hopeless. Theres weight, strength, regen, durability, special attack....in what areas does Smaug even come close, exactly? because casually tanking the earth's mantle is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gold bath. Just the fact that Zilla is in this match is an absolute indicator that Godzilla is entire leagues above this.

#29 Posted by Darkbiscuit (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: Dwarven made weaponry does outclass modern building level, especially when they were made for dragon slayers

I have a feeling that some people are just saying zilla bc they saw more recent people vote for him. You guys are all saying the same thing. Also, those of you saying that zilla is sooo much bigger and "1/3 his mass" (that one made me giggle) are foolish. Watch both movies before commenting, please. Most of you dont seem to be educated on one or the other, and the rules state that you should be, else just dont comment.

#30 Edited by Hulkman123 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

Smaug incinerates the overgrown Lizard.

#31 Posted by MetalJimmor (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbiscuit:

The 1/3rds bit was me replying to the person saying Smaug could take on Toho Godzilla, who is, in fact, much larger than Smaug by a huge margin.

I just saw the new Hobbit a couple days ago, and I've read the book a dozen times. I think I'm more than qualified to speak about Smaug, thank you.

Also a note. Dwarven made weapons have never been shown to have the destructive capacity you're claiming they have. They are very high quality weapons with magic qualities that are never defined, and have never been shown to have any unique effects beyond being a much sturdier metal than common steel. I'll also point out that in the original book it wasn't even a dwarven made ballista bolt, it was a normal arrow colored black because the archer felt it was a lucky arrow and he wanted to differentiate it from the rest.

A modern missile is quite a bit more damaging than a ballista bolt regardless, unless we see it fired in the next movie and it generated a huge explosion or some hint that it's magical in nature.

Maybe you'd like to make an argument rather than calling everyone else poorly informed?

#32 Edited by Chibi_cute (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

Eventhough the 1998 godzilla is bad..

Godzilla takes this.

#33 Edited by thelocust619 (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbiscuit: #29 Posted by Darkbiscuit (170 posts) - 6 hours, 50 minutes ago - Show Bio

@thelocust619: Dwarven made weaponry does outclass modern building level, especially when they were made for dragon slayers

.

.

.

.....evidence, please? Any dwarven weapon, at all, even matching a grenade, much less a missile? Cuz ....an object propelled by a string>multiple building busting missiles is kinda a hard sell. Something to support your case would be really helpful...

#34 Edited by Darkbiscuit (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: @thelocust619: why the hell are you saying modern weapons>dwarven made weapons? Nobody is contending that. I said that dwarven made weapons are more durable than NY buildings (modern at best) thos buildings are not in any way pure steel, or pure metal at that.

Also, this is movie versions. So you could be Tolkien himself and you wouldn't be more qualified than anybody who has watched the movie (hyperbole ofc but you understand)

#35 Posted by Frocharocha (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: Dwarven made weaponry does outclass modern building level, especially when they were made for dragon slayers

I have a feeling that some people are just saying zilla bc they saw more recent people vote for him. You guys are all saying the same thing. Also, those of you saying that zilla is sooo much bigger and "1/3 his mass" (that one made me giggle) are foolish. Watch both movies before commenting, please. Most of you dont seem to be educated on one or the other, and the rules state that you should be, else just dont comment.

Everything in The Lord of The Rings universe depends on magic. Humand and Dwarves mastered technology, while Elfs wanted to be more close to the Valar and therefore had more knwlodge on magic, which the vast majority of people in Etda don`t belive anymore.

In the books Smaug sleep for so long under the gold that he got an armor made of diamonds and gold which was immune to impervious damage. His only weakness was a part of the armor which was incomplete. He was killed when Bard shooted on him with a regular arrow in his weak spot.

The movie was different in this part. Sure, dragons have very tough skins in the books as well, but they are not as tough. The arrow in the movie is essentialy a bullet of titanium in real life piercing trough a tank.

Before Smaug, dragons who fought in land were easily kileld by groups of armored knights with swords, spears and stuff. Smaug was a smart dragon, he caught Erebor by surprise and was lucky to posses an armor made of diamond.

#36 Posted by MetalJimmor (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbiscuit:

As I said, I did see the movie.

Also, you claimed that dwarven steel was more damaging than modern missile weaponry. That is what's being compared. Smaug was damaged, and can be killed, by a ballista firing a dwarven bolt. It doesn't matter if the bolt is made of adamantium, it can't do any more damage than the amount of energy used to project it. A ballista can't do the same level of damage to an object as a missile. It took multiple missiles to wound Zilla while it took a couple well placed ballista shots to wound Smaug.

Zilla also has the physical strength to deal far more damage than a ballista shot can do. Until we see one of those black arrows punch through a metal ship or rip through a skyscraper, or at least a stone wall, we can't assume it can deal as much damage as Zilla's claws. Zilla's claws also cover a much larger area when they scrape along the target's body, which means Smaug would be getting his armored scales torn from his body in large stretches, leaving him vulnerable.

As I said before, I just don't see how Smaug could deal enough damage fast enough to Zilla before Zilla rips him a part. His only meaningful advantage is flight, and the OP took that away.

#37 Posted by thelocust619 (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbiscuit: This ^

We were talking about building level damage, so when u said "dwarven weapons outclass building level" I saw "dwarven weapons outclass building level (damage)", because simply pointing out the durability of an item is useless as it proves nothing and has no reason to be mentioned....like at all. The sidewinders one-shot Madison Square Garden, and it took multiple passes from 2 jets to kill GZ, so thats 8 missiles, or four madison square gardens..just to get through Zilla's skin and kill him. Compared to...what, three arrows? I don't see dwarven weapons outclassing anything here. It holds literally no bearing on the debate.

N iv been trying to say this the whole time lol a huge monster that can burrow into the ground so fast the military loses track of her means that those claws can displace a massive amount of solid material at a terrifying rate, which would devestate ANY character that can be harmed by a mere arrow.

#38 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbiscuit:

As I said, I did see the movie.

Also, you claimed that dwarven steel was more damaging than modern missile weaponry. That is what's being compared. Smaug was damaged, and can be killed, by a ballista firing a dwarven bolt. It doesn't matter if the bolt is made of adamantium, it can't do any more damage than the amount of energy used to project it. A ballista can't do the same level of damage to an object as a missile. It took multiple missiles to wound Zilla while it took a couple well placed ballista shots to wound Smaug.

Zilla also has the physical strength to deal far more damage than a ballista shot can do. Until we see one of those black arrows punch through a metal ship or rip through a skyscraper, or at least a stone wall, we can't assume it can deal as much damage as Zilla's claws. Zilla's claws also cover a much larger area when they scrape along the target's body, which means Smaug would be getting his armored scales torn from his body in large stretches, leaving him vulnerable.

As I said before, I just don't see how Smaug could deal enough damage fast enough to Zilla before Zilla rips him a part. His only meaningful advantage is flight, and the OP took that away.

I agree that Godzilla will win, even that she will easily win, but if this arrow was magical even in slightest way, You can't use normal physics for it. And it was suggested that it was far from normal.

#39 Edited by Lunacyde (20365 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: I can't take it, man...call him Zilla, that's his official name. I'm readin the thread n I can tell that's the cause of confusion...kingkaijugojira is talkin about Japanese GZ cuz of it lol this thing is not "god" anything

But on to the actual debate...uh..correct me if I'm wrong, but Smaug was killed with an arrow, right? So it was in his "special place" n hard to hit, w e, it was still just an arrow? I think, for once, Zilla's sidewinder+ durability could actually be enough here lol I mean he can burrow through rock so fast the military loses sight of him, if he just 'burrowed' at Smaug that would be pretty damaging. However, fire breath could be an issue because Zilla is "colder than the buildings around it", meaning a greater temperature change from cold to hot. This could possibly shock his system n lock his muscles as he burns.

But alas....the size difference...Zilla is no doubt larger...I'm assuming this is the 50 meter tall, 500 ton one and not the 20,000 ton FW version, but even then....n this thing can't fly away lmao oh boy....yea Zilla just bullys it to death like the big, animalistic dumbsh1t she is lol.

It wasn't just an arrow. It was a black arrow, about 6 foot long and specially forged by the dwarves to combat dragons. Furthermore it must be fired from a Dwarvish wind lance which was the heavy artillery at the time, and once again specially designed to fight dragons. Thirdly it had to hit a weak spot in his armor where one of his scales was missing. There is no proof that modern military rounds would penetrate his scales.

That being said Zilla should win the majority. Zilla is at least twice as big from my estimation, and is stronger and more durable by shown feats. Grounding Smaug just makes it moreso in Zilla's favor. Smaug is more intelligent but it won't do him much good as I cannot see a way he actually could mortally wound Zilla.

#40 Edited by GraniteSoldier (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

Eventhough the 1998 godzilla is bad..

Godzilla takes this.

This. The American Zilla is a shell of his Japanese counterpart, but Smaug hasn't done that much yet. His most impressive feats from the film are toppling over the stone pillars, breathing fire, surviving molten gold, and breaking through the front wall to the Dwarven Kingdom. But Zilla was faster, bigger, stronger, and survived just as bad if not worse. We don't know how Smaug really fights outside of his breath, and he was primarily shown doing breath runs from the air. So we don't know how capable he is on the ground. I'd love to say Zilla loses, but I think he wins here.

#41 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9969 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: I originally made the OP zilla but I had to clarify so I changed it

#42 Posted by MetalJimmor (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that Godzilla will win, even that she will easily win, but if this arrow was magical even in slightest way, You can't use normal physics for it. And it was suggested that it was far from normal.

The movie didn't say the black arrows were magic. Just that they were forged by dwarves for the task of killing dragons, and that only a few were made because of the difficulty of producing them. Generally in Lord of the Rings books and movies if something is magical they say so outright.

#43 Posted by Worlds_only_DC_fan (120 posts) - - Show Bio

American Godzilla is no doubt the weakest Godzilla ever, so I might give this to Smaug.

#44 Posted by ReviloIsFree (104 posts) - - Show Bio

@frocharocha: Invulnerable? He was killed by four missiles at the end of the movie.... *facepalm*

#45 Posted by RetconCrisis (4674 posts) - - Show Bio

People are seriously voting biasly right now. Sure, the 98 movie sucked, but imho Zilla should win with mid diff.

#46 Posted by Arathorn_II (465 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Smaug would win this. Smaug has broken through a Dwarven-made gate without difficulties and Zilla just damaged some skyscrapers, which are mostly glass, and not durable at all. They have to be ''weak'' so they can withstand earthquakes and storms. Yes, this sounds weird, but if they would be very sturdy and very tall, the would break in an earthquake or a storm, but it does lower their overall resistance against outside damage. Smaug would flamethrow Zilla to death, where as Zilla doesn't realy has an effect attack. He could punch or scratch Smaug, but Smaug's defense has shown strong enough to not be damaged by that.

#47 Posted by thelocust619 (3176 posts) - - Show Bio

@arathorn_ii: what skyscraper is mostly glass? Lol Glass can't support a building, dude...that's steel, n a couple hundred tons of it, too. They have to be "flexible" to survive storms, not "weak". Lmao wow.

Smaug's defense is gold, a horribly weak metal, and diamond, a horribly brittle rock. He was damaged by midevil weapons. Say these mideval weapons were pointed straight at the ground....they'd go nowhere. Zilla can dig through the ground so fast she can literally hide her entire mass from the military in seconds.

And...how does Smaug's breath that can't even hurt a rock gonna beat Zilla's 4x Madison Square Garden Buster durability, again?

Smaug is getting wanked the wrong way lmao and hard....where do people even come up with this stuff lol

#48 Posted by Arathorn_II (465 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: Alright, I didn't say it right. The damage Zilla did was mostly to the glass. The flexibility in these buildings makes it weaker. The tons of steel in these buildings are secerly spread. Smaug busted through a dwarven-made door, about the same ammount of steel and steel, but on a way smaller and compact scale. Thus meaning that the feat of strenght goes to Smaug.

In in hell did you get that diamond is weak? lol. Diamond is the hardest material in nature. There are only two materials harder, both man-made. Aggregated carbon nanorods and fullerene. It has a 10 on the Mohs scale of mineral hardness. This makes an excellent defense.

And even so, Smaug is faster, and Zilla's attacks aren't as strong as a Black Arrow. They have probably some more strenght, but also a much larger surface, thus distributing much of the energy onto a larg surface area, making his attack not as damaging as a Black Arrow.

And the fact that Smaug's fire hasn't shown to do damage against rock, doesn't mean that the heat of it can't damage Zilla.

#49 Posted by Erkan12 (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

Smaug wins via magic.

#50 Edited by Farkam (5767 posts) - - Show Bio

Smaug because Tunahead sucks.