Slaanesh (WH40K) vs Shub-Niggurath (The Cthulhu Mythos)

Debate with Lovecraft characters is impossible. That's all. There is only two ways to see it:

1-You go to the descriptions and stataments. If you believe them and use the context of lovecraft literature there is simply no other creature that can be at their league. They are simply unbeatable by any means.

2-You go to the hardcore feats and they are crap. Say that stataments aren't credible and only use one or two feats that say nothing and put them in island buster at best and almost anything can beat them.

There is only black and white in this debate.

@merulezall: Khorne would preform the same as Slaanesh in this thread. Since it is at their 'strongest' and at their strongest, Slaanesh and Khorne are equal (inferred from their tug-o-war over Khaine).

Nurgle at his strongest is mightier then Khorne, so I would favor him in Scenario 3.

Tzeentch at his strongest was the most powerful Chaos God (the other ones, including the minor gods, had to gang up to beat him), so I would also favor him in Scenario 3. Scenario 1 doesn't change because I doubt the Chaos Gods can even use their powers in Shub's domain. Neutral Universe where they both get their powers makes me lean towards the Tzeentch/Nurgle because they have feats and don't rely on just hype.

@wut: interesting, people make khorne out to be the most powerful out of the four major players, but its Tzeentch and Nurgle?

@merulezall: Normally, Khorne is the strongest.

That said, at her birth, Slaanesh was as strong as Khorne. She weakened down to be at where she is at now, the weakest of the four.

Nurgle's power grows and lessens depending on the amount of death and decay that is going on. At times, he is stronger then all the gods combined, at others, he is weaker then Slaanesh. 'Normally', he is above Slaanesh but below Tzeentch, so, if we were taking him at his strongest (which is what is being done in the OP), Nurgle would be stronger then Khorne, Slaanesh, and current Tzeentch combined.

Tzeentch, at his apex, was the 'king' of the Chaos Gods. He ruled them all and dominated the warp. Eventually, the other gods banned together to overthrow him. In response, Tzeentch shattered his staff which is what spread 'magic' and 'psyker power' to the mortal races. Doing so greatly weakened him (by like half or something), which is why he has the blue scribes out there trying to gather up all the 'spells', because if they do so, and he reabsorbs them, he would regain all his power. So... 'King of Gods' Tzeentch is above Khorne, current Tzeentch is beneath Khorne.

Bump

Shub Niggurath still

Bump.

Shub-Niggurath = Nyarlathotep = Outer Void > infinite dimensional multiverse > 9-dimensional multiverse = Slaanesh

And:

@gurban: Actually I believe it was stated that Nyarlathotep > Shub-Niggurath.

Man Nya stomps so hard it isn't even funny.

Nya is beyond the concept of higher dimensions itself:

The Cthulhu Mythos has infinite dimensions:

According to infinity in projective geometry, each higher spatial dimension is infinitely greater than the last:

Slaanesh is 9-dimensional and thats only in the Warp. He(?) can't manifest his full power outside the Warp but it doesn't matter. Nya is dimensionless, above even infinite dimensions. He could easily stomp on Marvel, DC and Warhammer 40k all combined, barring fully "omnipotent" beings of course. But that isn't his style. He'll troll the everlasting hell out of you before he leaves you as nothing more but a crying wreck.

Whoops sorry, I thought Nya was in this fight but regardless Shub uber curb stomps.

Bump

Still Shub stomps.

"The forms the live-things called Chaos, in their limited little ways of perceiving the omni-verse, swarmed and thrived in this infinite ocean of mind and emotion. "

-Deus Sanguinius

"Its impacts resounded simultaneously in multiple dimensions, slicing into the substance of the prince on both sides of the breach in the immateriumThe daemon screamed as the blade sliced into its head, shattering its skull in hundreds of dimensions at once. "

- Dawn of War Omnibus

" ‘The central conceit is that our visible, four-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane, that is, a membrane, inside a higher dimensional space,’ he begins, and already I feel any hope of comprehension fall away. ‘A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities, intersecting with our own in ways we cannot possibly imagine in any currently posited cosmological model.’ "

-Knights of the Imperium

"I t is often said that Tzeentch is the mastermind behind a Thousand and One Plots, though it is likely that an entity with his omniscience, immortality, power, and reach weaves a complicated web of deceptions and schemes too numerous to count. "

-The Tome of Fate

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.

Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things? "

- A Thousand Sons

"Some claim that Chaos has spawned an infinite number of gods, who constantly struggle amongst themselves for mastery over all. Others say that all the apparently diverse gods of Chaos are no more than different aspects and manifestations of one being: The Great Unnameable One, He Who Must Not Be Named, The Great Abomination, The Lord of Chaos, The Unspeakable Shapeless Beast and numberless other titles. "

- Realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness

Also I advise you to read Pages: 8, 13, 30, 41Codex Chaos Daemons.

And I advise you to read: Ahriman: Unchanged and AoS The Crystal of Fate.

His eyes appeared an endless landscape of distorted crystal caves infested with demonic servants of Tzeentch. They stretched into the distance, filling the maze pouring from the Realm of Chaos, the possession of a death in Outland and countless eternity.

-The Crystal of Fate

@lord_pask:

" ‘The central conceit is that our visible, four-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane, that is, a membrane, inside a higher dimensional space,’ he begins, and already I feel any hope of comprehension fall away. ‘A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities, intersecting with our own in ways we cannot possibly imagine in any currently posited cosmological model.’ "

-Knights of the Imperium

Interesting.

Could go either way.

@masterofluck123@ragnar_lodhbrok: thoughts?

Shub Niggurath solos WH40K along with Marvel and DC.

@ragnar_lodhbrok: While I cannot comment on who wins this battle due to my ignorance concerning WH40K, I will say that after having read all of Lovecraft's stories (as well as other mythos wtiters) that this statement is incredibly wrong. Marvel alone has entities that are far superior to anything in the Cthulhu Mythos. Also, since when did a creature being of a higher dimension (something never said about the Other Gods. It was said that they exist beyond normal space time, which is stated to be Hyperspace in 'Dreams in the Witch House') ever make it more powerful than a creature that isn't. Even if you were from a higher dimension, you wouldn't be able to interact knowingly with a creature from a lower dimension. I think people here heavily rely on the one video about 10 dimensions without ever having a real understanding of why physicist use higher dimensions to begin with. Regardless of that point, the Cthulhu Mythos entities are not as mighty as people make them out to be. As the point of Lovecraft's stories is not to set out to make impossibly powerful beings. Hos stories set out to convey the hopelessness in a universe that has no care for humanity. This is hammered in by using these powerful aliens that humans (an ignorant species) worship as gods. The Great Race of Yith actually point this out to the protagonist of 'A Shadow out of Time'.

Outer God vs Warhammer ? Seriously ?

Shub Niggurath solos the whole franchise without any difficult. That cosmology just exist beyond the capacity of every Marvel wank, even with Lovecraft downplay.

@wut said: