Posted by darklord_apoc (1294 posts) 5 months, 7 days ago

Sith Emperor vs Anakin/Vader (15 votes)

Sith Emperor 60%
Anakin/Vader 33%

Round 1: The Sith Emperor (KOTOR ) vs Anakin.... Random encounter and no prep! Can Jedi Knight Anakin pull a win here?

Round 2: The Sith Emperor vs Lord Vader... Again without prep and a random encounter... Could the Sith Emperor pull off a win in this battle?

#1 Edited by Intrepid37 (410 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate loses both rounds. Anakin and Vader has displayed comparable telekinetic capacity, more skill, and are physically superior.

With prep, though? Vitiate would dominate their minds, then fry them with a lightning storm.

#2 Posted by JediXMan (28068 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate's combat abilities have never impressed me. He was having a hard time against Revan, Meetra Surik, and T3. None of them are close to Anakin in power or abilities.

#3 Edited by darklord_apoc (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

Vitiate's combat abilities have never impressed me. He was having a hard time against Revan, Meetra Surik, and T3. None of them are close to Anakin in power or abilities.

Well even though this is not a prep battle do you think Sith Emperor could win in prep? Just curious?

#4 Posted by reikai (3439 posts) - - Show Bio

Vitiate sits there while Vader hits the floor and spasms from the stroke he's having just being in Vitiate's presence.

#5 Edited by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

Been done. Vader speedblitzes, and still has better TK and physical feats by a significant margin. However, he can't harm Vitiate's essence.

With prep, the Emperor wins via TP.

The Emperor is also from TOR, not KotOR.

@reikai said:

Vitiate sits there while Vader hits the floor and spasms from the stroke he's having just being in Vitiate's presence.

What pleasure do you get from posting misinformation?

#6 Posted by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio
@jedixman said:

Vitiate's combat abilities have never impressed me. He was having a hard time against Revan, Meetra Surik, and T3. None of them are close to Anakin in power or abilities.

Pretty much this, although he wasn't in his prime at that point.

#7 Posted by JediXMan (28068 posts) - - Show Bio
@jedixman said:

Vitiate's combat abilities have never impressed me. He was having a hard time against Revan, Meetra Surik, and T3. None of them are close to Anakin in power or abilities.

Pretty much this, although he wasn't in his prime at that point.

Perhaps. That just makes it a bit more challenging for Anakin.

#8 Posted by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Hmm. Prime Vitiate has TK feats nearly on par with Anakin's, but still can't match his speed and certainly not physically.

#9 Posted by JediXMan (28068 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Hmm. Prime Vitiate has TK feats nearly on par with Anakin's, but still can't match his speed and certainly not physically.

I think it comes down to that, honestly. Anakin is simply a better and faster duelist.

#10 Posted by darklord_apoc (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

Been done. Vader speedblitzes, and still has better TK and physical feats by a significant margin. However, he can't harm Vitiate's essence.

With prep, the Emperor wins via TP.

The Emperor is also from TOR, not KotOR.

@reikai said:

Vitiate sits there while Vader hits the floor and spasms from the stroke he's having just being in Vitiate's presence.

What pleasure do you get from posting misinformation?

So if they both had prep don't you think Anakin/Vader can still win because doesn't Vader have defenses against TP? I know he does not against Sidious, but Sidious is the most powerful Sith their is though..

#11 Posted by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: I didn't say anything about Vader's lack of defense. I'm saying Vitiate's TP with enough prep wipes eight thousand Sith Lords (according to the SWTOR encyclopedia, which is more accurate than Nyriss who tends to lie).

#13 Posted by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio
@jedixman said:

@shootingnova said:

@jedixman: Hmm. Prime Vitiate has TK feats nearly on par with Anakin's, but still can't match his speed and certainly not physically.

I think it comes down to that, honestly. Anakin is simply a better and faster duelist.


Yes, it comes down to that. Anakin/Vader stomps without regards to prep, except he can't harm Vitiate's spirit.

#14 Posted by reikai (3439 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: It's not. Vitiate speaks in the voice of millions with a sound and tone that is beyond human. The first time anyone was in his presence they couldn't move as it had literally felt as if they were before a god. Scourge and Thanaton had both felt this way. Servant 2 of the Emperor's Hand had permanent mental damage from having been in contact with Vitiate's psyche.

Anyway, while Nyriss does lie sometimes, there is no lying about what Vitiate had done to acquire his immortality. Nyriss was also a powerful member of the Dark Council, and Revan slaughtered her effortlessly. Yet could barely even hold his own against Vitiate, even with help. The only reason Vitiate was even knocked off his feet in that fight was because he expected to crush Revan's mind like he did the last time. Only in their first encounter did he catch Revan off-guard. This time he was prepared. Can't say Vader will be, having never encountered Vitiate before.

We also know Vitiate drove people insane and killed them through the Force when he was 4yrs old. While Vitiate's saber skills are ambiguous at best, he had never needed to use them before because he always just steamrolled everyone around him with sheer Force Power. He straight up murdered the remaining ten Dark Council members at the same time, before Revan, Meetra, Scourge and T3-M4 arrived later that day. And did so just to send a message, that if even one of them plotted against him, they were all getting as good as dead and he'd replace them as easily as replace paper in a printer.

Far as it stood, Vitiate never had to use his lightsaber skills until the Jedi Knight confronted him, and only did so because Vitiate's power had been greatly diminished by numerous events involving the deaths of his Children, whom he is connected to, as well as his Servants and his Voice. Vitiate with much of his power effortlessly stomped three Jedi Masters and the Jedi Knight and mentally dominated the entire lot of them and made them his b**ches for the next six months before the Force Spirit of one of the Jedi Knights Masters was finally able to help him break free.

Vitiate is kind of like the Juggernaut in the way. Who needs strategy when you're so powerful you just stomp everything around you? What is the point of using a blade when you can release such power that everything around you dies?

Even if you gave the edge of physical strength to Vader, it's practically meaningless when faced with a guy who can rip his cybernetic body apart with a gesture or shred him with enough lightning to make even Sidious blush with envy.

#15 Posted by darklord_apoc (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@shootingnova: It's not. Vitiate speaks in the voice of millions with a sound and tone that is beyond human. The first time anyone was in his presence they couldn't move as it had literally felt as if they were before a god. Scourge and Thanaton had both felt this way. Servant 2 of the Emperor's Hand had permanent mental damage from having been in contact with Vitiate's psyche.

Anyway, while Nyriss does lie sometimes, there is no lying about what Vitiate had done to acquire his immortality. Nyriss was also a powerful member of the Dark Council, and Revan slaughtered her effortlessly. Yet could barely even hold his own against Vitiate, even with help. The only reason Vitiate was even knocked off his feet in that fight was because he expected to crush Revan's mind like he did the last time. Only in their first encounter did he catch Revan off-guard. This time he was prepared. Can't say Vader will be, having never encountered Vitiate before.

We also know Vitiate drove people insane and killed them through the Force when he was 4yrs old. While Vitiate's saber skills are ambiguous at best, he had never needed to use them before because he always just steamrolled everyone around him with sheer Force Power. He straight up murdered the remaining ten Dark Council members at the same time, before Revan, Meetra, Scourge and T3-M4 arrived later that day. And did so just to send a message, that if even one of them plotted against him, they were all getting as good as dead and he'd replace them as easily as replace paper in a printer.

Far as it stood, Vitiate never had to use his lightsaber skills until the Jedi Knight confronted him, and only did so because Vitiate's power had been greatly diminished by numerous events involving the deaths of his Children, whom he is connected to, as well as his Servants and his Voice. Vitiate with much of his power effortlessly stomped three Jedi Masters and the Jedi Knight and mentally dominated the entire lot of them and made them his b**ches for the next six months before the Force Spirit of one of the Jedi Knights Masters was finally able to help him break free.

Vitiate is kind of like the Juggernaut in the way. Who needs strategy when you're so powerful you just stomp everything around you? What is the point of using a blade when you can release such power that everything around you dies?

Even if you gave the edge of physical strength to Vader, it's practically meaningless when faced with a guy who can rip his cybernetic body apart with a gesture or shred him with enough lightning to make even Sidious blush with envy.

How powerful were these other sith's and jedi's because as I recall he was killed pretty easily with a light saber by some Jedi?

#16 Posted by reikai (3439 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: *flicks forehead* Already explained. Vitiate was not killed by "some jedi". This shows the immense lack of knowledge of the TOR era and storyline. Dark Council members are the cream of the crop. They are the most powerful Sith in the Empire and are risen to status as members of the Dark Council who oversee all aspects of the Imperial Government. Primarily the military and the training of Force Users in the way of the dark side to become Sith.

The Dark Council are the Twelve most powerful Sith Lords who serve under the Emperor. During this time 300yrs prior to SWTOR, one of them was killed by Scourge. Another. Nyriss, was killed by Revan after Nyriss smacked Scourge and Meetra Surik (the Jedi Exile of KotoR2) around and treated them like children. Revan one-shotted her and reduced her to a pile of scorched ashes.

The Jedi Masters Vitiate slaps down during the Jedi Knight storyline are members of the Jedi High Council. One such member withstood close proximity to a super-weapon that delivered mass ultrasonic waves into a planet that would destabilize its core and cause it to explode. Without a Force Shield to guard herself she would've been reduced to atomic particles long before the Jedi Knight arrived to save her.

Though not having been part of the strike team sent after Vitiate, Satele Shan is the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order during this time. She is the descendant of Revan and Bastila Shan, and she is depicted in both the "Return" and "Hope" trailers for SWTOR. As well as the comic series and portrayals in the novelizations. In "Fatal Alliance" she Force Crushed multiple Hex Droids; self-redesigning machines that make everything the Separatists used in the Clone Wars look like plastic dolls.

#17 Posted by Earthquake_2123 (467 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: you again *facepalm. Vader wins both rounds for reasons stated above by JediXman and Nova, so no need for me to reiterate them.

#18 Posted by darklord_apoc (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@darklord_apoc: *flicks forehead* Already explained. Vitiate was not killed by "some jedi". This shows the immense lack of knowledge of the TOR era and storyline. Dark Council members are the cream of the crop. They are the most powerful Sith in the Empire and are risen to status as members of the Dark Council who oversee all aspects of the Imperial Government. Primarily the military and the training of Force Users in the way of the dark side to become Sith.

The Dark Council are the Twelve most powerful Sith Lords who serve under the Emperor. During this time 300yrs prior to SWTOR, one of them was killed by Scourge. Another. Nyriss, was killed by Revan after Nyriss smacked Scourge and Meetra Surik (the Jedi Exile of KotoR2) around and treated them like children. Revan one-shotted her and reduced her to a pile of scorched ashes.

The Jedi Masters Vitiate slaps down during the Jedi Knight storyline are members of the Jedi High Council. One such member withstood close proximity to a super-weapon that delivered mass ultrasonic waves into a planet that would destabilize its core and cause it to explode. Without a Force Shield to guard herself she would've been reduced to atomic particles long before the Jedi Knight arrived to save her.

Though not having been part of the strike team sent after Vitiate, Satele Shan is the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order during this time. She is the descendant of Revan and Bastila Shan, and she is depicted in both the "Return" and "Hope" trailers for SWTOR. As well as the comic series and portrayals in the novelizations. In "Fatal Alliance" she Force Crushed multiple Hex Droids; self-redesigning machines that make everything the Separatists used in the Clone Wars look like plastic dolls.

I'll admit I dont know too much about the Tor era but my cousin does so I will have to ask him, but I just remember him running into a light saber... So were those Jedi and Sith more powerful than Obie Wan, Darth Sidious, Yoda, Windu, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and Q.J?

#19 Posted by Vaeternus (8366 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader should manage.

#20 Posted by Wolfrazer (5017 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: You know the Sith Lords were willing right? You're talking about the ritual? Ya those were willing Sith Lords, so of course dominating their minds was gonna be easy.

#21 Posted by reikai (3439 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: Satele pretty much does a Hadoken in the "Hope" trailer. She is well above most of the PT Jedi/Sith., and Malgus has been her equal in power and a better duelist.

@wolfrazer:Actually those Sith had no idea what the ritual would do. Vitiate told them it' eliminate the Jedi coming to kill them. He lied. They had no idea they'd all just become fodder to feed Vitiate's immortality.

#22 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4946 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 Anakin

Round 2 Emperor. Vader instantly dies against lightning in that suit. Like sode 6

#23 Edited by Beezlebub (1590 posts) - - Show Bio

Reikai I just realized you're a troll. Now I know why the others hate you. Vader/Anakin take this.

#24 Posted by darklord_apoc (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 Anakin

Round 2 Emperor. Vader instantly dies against lightning in that suit. Like sode 6

I think Sidious armor is more powerful and even as it was hitting Vader he still managed to kill Sidious, and Vader has tank Star Killers powers and attacks in Vader's armor..

#25 Posted by Beezlebub (1590 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Sidious is definitely more powerful. Darklord don't worry about it everything you've said is correct Reikai is just a troll who stalks the Star Wars Threads. Instead of He Who Walks The Rows think of He Who Walks The Star Wars Threads. Just as dangerous but a thousand tiems stupider.

#26 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4946 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller said:

Round 1 Anakin

Round 2 Emperor. Vader instantly dies against lightning in that suit. Like sode 6

I think Sidious armor is more powerful and even as it was hitting Vader he still managed to kill Sidious, and Vader has tank Star Killers powers and attacks in Vader's armor..

It didn't hit Vader till he picked up Sidious though..and idk about Force Unleashed I know it's canon but....

#27 Edited by darklord_apoc (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc said:
@ultrastarkiller said:

Round 1 Anakin

Round 2 Emperor. Vader instantly dies against lightning in that suit. Like sode 6

I think Sidious armor is more powerful and even as it was hitting Vader he still managed to kill Sidious, and Vader has tank Star Killers powers and attacks in Vader's armor..

It didn't hit Vader till he picked up Sidious though..and idk about Force Unleashed I know it's canon but....

Lol I meant to say Sidious's lighting is more powerful not armor lol.... Yes but Sidious has been able to disengrate others with his lighting and I am sure he did not want Vader to kill him so it would be common sense that Sidious was shooting Vader as Vader lifted him up with everything he had right?

#28 Posted by Beezlebub (1590 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. Also Sidious is the most powerful Sith and second most powerful force user in Star Wars History Luke being first.

#29 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4946 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: Ya true but I thought that he made Vaders suit all metal so he can easily kill him with lightning...IIRC a friend said that So I would assume that any lightning could hurt him...could ve wrong.

#30 Edited by Beezlebub (1590 posts) - - Show Bio

No after the events in FUI Darth Vader had specially made armor to counteract Galen Marek's use of Force lightning against him. Also how would making Vader weak like that be beneficial to Sidious? Any Jedi who could use Force lightning could harm of kill him. Also Sidious is powerful enough to deal with Vader easily.

#31 Edited by DOMINIS (138 posts) - - Show Bio

With prep, Vitiate may pull off a victory. But other than that, in a confrontation with Revan, Revan was able to disrupt Vitiate's attempt to mind dominate him via a TK-like attack. Considering Vader greatly surpasses Revan in sheer TK, he should be able to replicate that, and once Vitiate is down, it will give Vader the opportunity to pursue with another attack.

#32 Edited by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: As far as I recall, they were mind-wiped into being willing. And regardless, even if they were willing, eight thousand Sith Lords is a lot.

@reikai: LOL. It's so blatantly obvious you failed to read my post because you were responding to a point I made that supported Vitiate. When you don't read somebody's post, even your trolling fails.

And only one of those Jedi Vitiate defeated was a High Council Member (which is Tor Braga) and the other two were absolutely featless, Tor Braga had very few feats anyways. And Scourge killing Xedrix is utterly irrelevant as the latter is a featless old man way beyond his prime.

@darklord_apoc: Don't listen to reikai. He's admirably illustrated his skill for posting misinformation and trolling constantly.

For Satele and Malgus, Grand Master Satele of TOR has better Force feats than Malgus, but Malgus still is better physically and lightsaber-wise.

The PT era was the golden age of the Jedi. There were few Jedi in the TOR era (the Jedi Knight and Consular protagonists of TOR, Satele Shan, and that's really about it) who were even close to the PT era Jedi.

The reality of this fight is as simple as this: Vitiate can win via TP, but he lacks the ability to respond to Vader's speedblitz, and is also slightly inferior in TK. However, Vader possesses no way of harming Vitiate's essence. That said, Vitiate can't simply anchor his essence like Palpatine, and needs to retreat to his host body/other bodies to recover (he essentially enters a state of "hibernation"). That would count as a win for Vader. The same would apply to Anakin.

With prep, Vitiate wins via TP.

#33 Posted by Bruxae (9545 posts) - - Show Bio

Emperor.

#34 Edited by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio
@bruxae said:

Emperor.

Would you mind explaining this? The Emperor lacks the ability to react to Vader or Anakin (unless he has prep, in which case he wins via TP).

#35 Posted by Intrepid37 (410 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

@intrepid37: Based on Fatal Alliance, several of the comics and the Hope trailer.

#37 Edited by Intrepid37 (410 posts) - - Show Bio

Could you be more specific?

#38 Edited by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

@intrepid37: For a comparison:

Satele Shan:

  • Is capable of applying Shatterpoint
  • Can release Force Blasts (or Force Waves or whatever you wish to call them) that can shatter blast doors and cliff faces
  • Can stun Hex Droids with mere looks
  • Destroys Hex Droids with mere gestures (for reference, Hex Droids have resisted an enraged Eldon Ax's Force Crush [which, granted, is relatively featless] and their shields can redirect lightsaber blades)
  • Demonstrates Tutaminis to an extent sufficient enough to absorb Lightsaber blades with her bare hands
  • Possesses extensive precognition
  • Shattered a bacta tank
  • Has hurled several Sith troopers with Force Push
  • Can influence the biological components of over half a dozen Hex Droids to keep them at bay whilst maintaining a Force shield that seals air around her (although she couldn't do this for long)
  • Appears to be skillful with Battle Meditation, although this isn't applicable in this fight
  • Utilized Force Concealment

Darth Malgus:

  • Has choked a featless Jedi to death
  • Has killed three featless Jedi via Lightning
  • Utilized Force Concealment
  • Telekinetically hurled boulders
  • Has hurled a Jedi with Force Push
  • Unleashes a Force Push that crushes a man's bones and kills him
  • Crushes Adraas's trachea
  • Overwhelms Adraas with Lightning
  • Scorches flesh with Lightning
  • Uses Force Wave/Repulse to knock everything near him away from him, sending enemies crashing into walls and through windows whilst also lurching the vehicle he rode on and knocking down some doors
  • Destroyed a stone column with Force Scream (involuntary, not consciously applicable in a fight)

I have missed some feats for both, but overall, Malgus has good feats but Satele would pass him slightly (mainly her cliff-shattering, Tutaminis and Hex Droid manipulation/destruction). As I've also noted earlier, Malgus surpasses her in lightsaber dueling and physical qualities, and honestly by a larger amount than the difference between her and Malgus's Force abilities.

However, we are getting off-topic.

#39 Edited by Intrepid37 (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: It's off-topic, but I disagree. Malgus, when injured, has telekinetically blown away part of rubble consisting two buildings. Satele's list is impressive, but not quite up to par.

#40 Edited by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

@intrepid37: I'm not the best feat calculator, but I would place destroying cliff-faces (or perhaps entire cliffs, I can't fully remember) over blowing partial remains of two buildings.

Malgus has high raw power (though not necessarily above Satele's), but Satele has more accuracy. Malgus seems to just unleash powerful area-of-effect TK and other Force abilities, while feats like manipulating and destroying Hex Droids has much more precision. Power is debatable. I don't think we've seen Satele cut losse, but you could say similar things for Malgus. Malgus has powerful Force feats, but a vast majority of them concern featless no-namers - while Hex Droids have numerous impressive feats.

Honestly, we'd be better off discussing this in a PM rather than derailing the thread.

#41 Posted by reikai (3439 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Don't go on about your PT "Golden Age" nonsense. You, as many do, take that line completely out of context to proclaim they were the most powerful Jedi up to that point. They weren't. It merely meant the Jedi were prosperous during that time, not that they were any more powerful than those that came before them. There were far more powerful Jedi during "Tales of the Jedi" than there ever were shown during the PT, and you and I both know that.

And for all the "Oh Scourge killed a featless old Man", you and so many other fans love to proclaim when Vader killed a couple of Jedi Masters who are all Featless and still made him work for it. And for years does nothing but kill Featless jedi. Then you ignore all Revan has done and his accomplishments because you dislike the character, and continue to ignore the fact people like him not because he was powerful but because he was Better Written than most others out there.

And then, of course, we have one of their best writers flat out saying that he considers Revan, Bane and Vader equals in their own regards.

Who’s stronger – Darth Bane, Darth Revan or Darth Vader?

It’s a tie. Seriously, I can’t answer this. First, it’s not really up to me to make that kind of call. Second, it really depends on the situation. You can probably find rule books for various Star Wars role-playing games that will give you stats allowing you to compare relative strength. But from an artistic and dramatic standpoint, this kind of question has no “right” answer. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and they grow and change as their stories progress. On any given day, at any given time, under any given circumstance anyone can win or lose. That’s what dramatic conflict is all about.

And, btw, Vit didn't use a TP-TK on Revan. It was TP, and Revan responded with a TK attack because he was Prepared for the mental assault that time. The most Revan actually accomplished in that encounter, was absorbing a wave of Vit's Force Lightning and blasting him back a few meters with his own charged attack. And all that did was royally tick him off. Until that moment, Vit was content to just play around with them.

#42 Edited by ShootingNova (13373 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: LOL. And where exactly have you gotten your information from? The Tales of the Jedi Jedi are whom, exactly? Arca Jeth? Odan Urr? Vodo-Siosk Baas? Nomi Sunrider? Does that supersede Yoda? Windu?

And by the way, the "Golden Age of the Jedi" is supported by feats from such Jedi. I mean, TotJ Jedi haven't thrown droids 3 or 4 kilometres, or collapsed caves.

Vader has killed people like An'ya Kuro and the likes whom actually have feats (and some impressive ones, at that). Don't mention Xedrix, both Nyriss and Scourge admitted he was well beyond his prime.

And Karpyshynn being the best writer is your opinion. Considering he largely ignored K2 and by his own admission didn't do much research on it, and is evidently biased in regards to Revan - his opinion doesn't mean much. If it was somebody such as Leland Chee, then what he says would be canon. James Luceno said that Plagueis would beat Sidious in a fight, that doesn't mean much when every single other source proclaims Palpatine as the most powerful Sith Lord.

Also, I'm well aware of what happened when Vitiate attempted to use TP on Revan, thank you very much. There's nothing in the novel that even remotely suggests Vitiate was content to just play around, and in fact the SWTOR encyclopedia contradicts what you said (and that is a canonical source, as opposed to your made up information) by stating that Revan had approached striking distance and the Emperor was in danger of death, hence why he created the Emperor's Voice.