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#1 Posted by dodi (119 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight takes place on Asgard

#2 Posted by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering either member of the team can win solo, team wins.

#3 Edited by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise said:

Considering either member of the team can win solo, team wins.

You do realise Surfer one-shots Superman.

#4 Posted by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: Yeah, because he's always one-shotting Thor, who's not as durable as Superman, every time they fight... Oh wait, that doesn't happen.

#5 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise: I'm not sure you're fully grasping my point.

Superman - Powered solely by a specific type of radiation and weak to 2 specific types of radiation.

Silver Surfer - Can manipulate any concievable form of radiation. And also has cosmic awareness, and will be aware of Superman's weaknesses.

To put it bluntly, Surfer can drain Supes of all his powers then blast him with Kryptonite radiation from one hand and Red Sun radiation from the other.

Supes will get one-shotted.

#6 Edited by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

Does all of that happen instantaneously? No.

Will Superman just sit there and let it happen? No.

Will Superman (and in this case, Thor as well) start beating the snot out of the Surfer and take him out before he makes a dent in Superman's power reserves? Yes.

So much for "one-shotting."

#7 Edited by Killemall (18287 posts) - - Show Bio

At the end of the day its about character restriction.

Silver Surfer fights the way he normally does in comics, team clearly will have the upper hand.

Silver Surfer fight the way he should, given what he has been shown doing outside of a combat scenario, Surfer could take them.

Its personal preference on what you label Surfer's "in character" or what part of his powers, or lack of its use in a combat situation you label "PIS".

#8 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise:

"Does all of that happen instantaneously?"

Essentially, yes, since Surfer is not only faster than both but he can also manipulate time.

"Will Superman just sit there and let it happen?"

Well he's not going to be able to do much else without his powers, is he?

"Will Superman (and in this case, Thor as well) start beating the snot out of the Surfer and take him out before he makes a dent in Superman's power reserves?"

No. Thor speed-wise is a complete non-factor here since he's actually slower than a human. And since Mjolnir is the only thing in Team 2's arsenal that can get through SS's shields and actually stop SS from phasing through attacks, the Team actually has no way to "Beat the snot out of the Surfer".

#9 Posted by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

You really have an inflated sense of Silver Surfer's power levels. He has never been shown to view Thor as a nuisance in his fights with him. Superman and Thor are absolutely able to react to and hit Surfer in a fight situation, and are absolutely strong enough to hurt him, shields and all. As has been irrefutably shown in the comics.

#10 Edited by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise:

"He has never been shown to view Thor as a nuisance in his fights with him"

It's called PiS, I'm surprised you've never heard of it.

SS should realisticly have no problem with Thor, he has a myriad of ways to permenantly put him down and all of them he has been shown to use easily, efficiently and consistently.

"Superman and Thor are absolutely able to react to and hit Surfer in a fight situation"

Well since Superman is going down in the first few seconds of the fight, he's irrelevant, and if Thor is unable to hit people like Spider-Man and Wolverine, how could he possibly hit a massively FTL cosmic space entity like SS?. And to answer your claim of them being able to HIT Surfer, well, he's just going to phase through any of Superman's attacks in the fraction of time before Clark gets obliterated, and as I've said, the only thing on Team 2 that could harm Surfer is Mjolnir, and it's being wielded by a slug.

#11 Posted by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

PIS? Have you heard of BIS... Battleboard Induced Stupidity? The inability to recognize something that happens in the comics over... and over... and over again.

Thor has ALWAYS been a peer to Surfer in their multiple fights. Working with Superman, Surfer gets stomped.

And why do you think Surfer will drain Superman in "seconds" anyway?

#12 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise said:

PIS? Have you heard of BIS... Battleboard Induced Stupidity? The inability to recognize something that happens in the comics over... and over... and over again.

Yes, and? Daredevil has consistently given Spider-Man even fights, and Batman has given Deathstroke even fights, just because it happens repeatedly doesn't make it any less breathtakingly stupid.

Besides, your consistency argument also works against you, since Thor has been speedblitzed by extremely slow opponents over... and over... and over again, and according to you, that means it's 100% irrefutable.

"And why do you think Surfer will drain Superman in "seconds" anyway?"

Why not? SS was able to drain Hulk in an instant, and Hulk's radiation came from a ground zero nuclear blast, which is a lot more radiation than the solar rays that hit the earth's surface, let alone that which hits the comparatively tiny Superman.

#13 Edited by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil doesn't give Spider-Man consistently even fights on average. He's usually shown to be the underdog, though he has had good showings.

Batman doesn't give Deathstroke consistently even fights on average. He's usually shown to be the underdog, though he has had good showings.

In comics do characters sometimes beat someone they shouldn't? Sure. Yes we all know Spider-Man beat Fire Lord... a one-time, one-off showing.

Thor has ALWAYS been shown to be a peer of Silver Surfer.

Superman is a living battery of solar radiation that is constantly being recharged. There's no reason to think that Surfer can drain him instantaneously other than blatant fanboyism.

#14 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise: all good points mr 666 posts

#15 Posted by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio
@cochise said:
Thor has ALWAYS been shown to be a peer of Silver Surfer.

Just like he has ALWAYS been shown to be one of the slowest heroes in the Marvel universe? And would never realisticly be able to hit Surfer without some super PiS? Funny that.

"Superman is a living battery of solar radiation that is constantly being recharged"

Actually, there's no yellow sun on Asgard, so he's actually constantly being drained.

"There's no reason to think that Surfer can drain him instantaneously other than blatant fanboyism."

Surfer draining Hulk instantly

Only difference is, Hulk creates his own continuous supply of his radiation, he can create so much it overloads machines trying to drain it, yet SS can drain it with ease instantly.

How dare you accuse me of fanboyism, sir. I'm only going by the facts.

#17 Edited by Cochise (707 posts) - - Show Bio

And yet Superman is faster than Hulk, has energy projection attacks, does not revert to "human form" when drained, and isn't fighting an amped Silver Surfer. Additionally, Thor will presumably be doing something other than watching from the sidelines

#18 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise:

"Superman is faster than Hulk"

Irrelevant, what's he going to do? Punch through Surfer's intangible body?

"has energy projection attacks"

Oh come on, deep space is colder than freeze breath and a supernova is hotter than heat vision, SS has no problem with either.

"does not revert to "human form" when drained"

He does actually, a non-amped Kryptonian = Human.

"and isn't fighting an amped Silver Surfer"

Having absorbed Gamma Radiation does not affect his ability to absorb other forms of radiation.

"Thor will presumably be doing something other than watching from the sidelines"

He won't have much choice, being so vastly outclassed in terms of speed, I doubt he'd even be able to follow what's happening.

#19 Posted by New_World_Order (12573 posts) - - Show Bio

Team most likely. Surfer is being a little overrated here.

#20 Edited by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath said:

Team most likely. Surfer is being a little overrated here.

Sufer one-shots Supes then speed-blitzs Thor, how hard is that to believe?

#21 Posted by capall2 (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer still wins here...his vast array of abilities gives him the edge...intangibility, omni-directional cosmic blast and so on...

#22 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

SS can't even beat Thor by himself, let alone Thor+Superman.

#23 Posted by New_World_Order (12573 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath said:

Team most likely. Surfer is being a little overrated here.

Sufer one-shots Supes then speed-blitzs Thor, how hard is that to believe?

Only you think that..

Most people say otherwise.

#24 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

SS can't even beat Thor by himself, let alone Thor+Superman.

Superman is a non-factor, so this is basically still SS vs Thor.

And any times Thor has beat Surfer is undeniable PiS.

#25 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath said:

@sheenlantern said:

@thundergodswrath said:

Team most likely. Surfer is being a little overrated here.

Sufer one-shots Supes then speed-blitzs Thor, how hard is that to believe?

Only you think that..

Most people say otherwise.

"Most people" can't prove me wrong.

#26 Posted by New_World_Order (12573 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath said:

@sheenlantern said:

@thundergodswrath said:

Team most likely. Surfer is being a little overrated here.

Sufer one-shots Supes then speed-blitzs Thor, how hard is that to believe?

Only you think that..

Most people say otherwise.

"Most people" can't prove me wrong.

  1. Oh, really? First of all, how many times has Silver Surfer used this "Cosmic Awareness" in a way to find out a character's weakness? Once against Gladiator. So it's highly likely they have forgotten about the power, or it's only been used as plot device. He didn't even use it on Gladiator, he just threatened to use it.
  2. Superman is suffering from a bug physical strength disadvantage here. He has to deal with two super strong beings laying punches at him. Seeing how Mjolnir has hurt him badly before, I can see Thor doing it again. Alongside Superman.
  3. Speedblitz Thor? The same Silver Surfer who has almost no reaction feats to suggest that he's faster than the 2? Yes he has faster travel speed argurably, but reaction speed is a different thing entirely. You can fly fast, but can't react fast. Superman can do both to a high degree. To the point he can react to nanosecond hits. Can Surfer do that? No.

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

SS can't even beat Thor by himself, let alone Thor+Superman.

Superman is a non-factor, so this is basically still SS vs Thor.

And any times Thor has beat Surfer is undeniable PiS.

Do you even know what PIS is? If something happens consistently, or if Marvel writers say something many times it's not inconsistent.

#27 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: Hm....are you in denial?

Thor has beaten SS numberous times, if you think that's wrong, sue the writers.

Thor can beat Silver Surfer, sad but true, deal with it.

#28 Posted by Sideslash (5907 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is a complete non-factor.

Superman vs Silver Surfer is what this fight is.

In that case, Norrin will drain Kal's radiation.

#29 Edited by uberhikari (2462 posts) - - Show Bio

It really seems like characters who have a significant following are more likely to win fights, no matter how ridiculous the scenario is. Superman + Thor beat SS? Really? Thor is as slow as a brick and Superman has a built in disadvantage in this fight, but people are still arguing that Superman + Thor would win?

The only reason why this is even debatable is because most of the time SS simply refuses to fight or holds back, so @killemall is right. It depends on how severe you see the restrictions of SS's character and what you consider PIS. If SS takes this fight half-way serious this fight is over in 60 seconds. First, SS drains Superman of his solar radiation, then he uses his empathic abilities to make Thor not want to fight.

#30 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath:
"First of all, how many times has Silver Surfer used this "Cosmic Awareness" in a way to find out a character's weakness? Once against Gladiator. So it's highly likely they have forgotten about the power, or it's only been used as plot device. He didn't even use it on Gladiator, he just threatened to use it."

He actually threatened to kill Gladiator with his weakness, he had already discerned the weakness itself.

Cosmic Awareness has always been one of Surfer's fundamental powers, he's been shown to use it in dozens of different ways, including ascertaining weaknesses, what else could you want?

"Superman is suffering from a bug physical strength disadvantage here. He has to deal with two super strong beings laying punches at him. Seeing how Mjolnir has hurt him badly before, I can see Thor doing it again. Alongside Superman."

I don't understand this sentence at all, what do bugs have to do with this? And why would Thor be attacking Superman? Scratch that, why would SUPERMAN be attacking Superman?

"Speedblitz Thor? The same Silver Surfer who has almost no reaction feats to suggest that he's faster than the 2? Yes he has faster travel speed argurably, but reaction speed is a different thing entirely. You can fly fast, but can't react fast. Superman can do both to a high degree. To the point he can react to nanosecond hits. Can Surfer do that? No."

Surfer can operate in Nanoseconds without problem

Yes, he can.

Also, I almost threw up in my mouth when you said Surfer isn't as fast at reacting as Thor, let's compare.

Surfer - Can effortlessly blitz Nova

Thor - Gets effortlessly blitzed by Mongoose

#31 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern:

Black Panther put Silver Surfer in a armbar. The Thing has knocked Silver Sufer around.

Why are people throwing stones when they live in a glass house??

#32 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4922 posts) - - Show Bio

SS would destroy Supes. The only reason Thor has ever beaten SS is due to Norrin holding back. He never unleashes his full potential and holds back 99% of the time. In character the team could win but SS could also win. Morals off SS destroys both of them. It's funny people are calling SS overated when the other 2 are far more overated.

#33 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

@sheenlantern: Hm....are you in denial?

Thor has beaten SS numberous times, if you think that's wrong, sue the writers.

Thor can beat Silver Surfer, sad but true, deal with it.

It's called jobbing.

When the obvious winner takes a dive to make the more popular character look better.

It's happened with Shiva and Batman, Firelord and Spider-Man, Croc and Rhino and everyone else, Modern Thanos and everyone else, Darkseid and cosmic plot armor Batman etc etc.

#34 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4922 posts) - - Show Bio

When people start using lowball arguments you know they don't know jack about the character.

#36 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

Whether surfer let Panther is not the point.

For those making an argument from their ignorance of the character, they will continually say that Surfer or any character put in his situation, is a slow-poke, They'll say that its the "logical conclusion" to come to, despite any solid evidence to the contrary and nothing truly definitive to back them up.

Taking things out of context in order to mislead people about a characters abilities is not how you debate anything.

Focusing solely on a character's low settings, no matter the circumstances that come with it, while totally ignoring their completely acceptable high showings, is what is known as low balling. You can't rightly debate by low-balling.

#37 Posted by New_World_Order (12573 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern:

"He actually threatened to kill Gladiator with his weakness, he had already discerned the weakness itself.

Cosmic Awareness has always been one of Surfer's fundamental powers, he's been shown to use it in dozens of different ways, including ascertaining weaknesses, what else could you want?"

Do you have any scans to show me of Surfer using it to find out other beings weaknesses? Other than him threatening Gladiator?

"I don't understand this sentence at all, what do bugs have to do with this? And why would Thor be attacking Superman? Scratch that, why would SUPERMAN be attacking Superman?"

It was a typo. It was suppose to say "big". Also I never said the whole confusing sentence you said above. I said that Surfer is at a big physical strength disadvantage, and will have to deal with both of them throwing multiple strike at him.

Lol, so you pull up a Classic feat from Surfer. When will people understand that classic does not equal current? Pull up a scan that's not so old, and than we can go with that. Thor has been said to move as fast as his lightning in current years. That's his reaction speed. (Lighting is 224000 mph, and Thor's may move faster than regular lightning) How about Surfers?

So your going to low-ball the same character who has thrashed Silver Surfer about 3 times in his career, and Surfer has no wins? Good job man.

#38 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

@cochise said:

Does all of that happen instantaneously? No.

Will Superman just sit there and let it happen? No.

Will Superman (and in this case, Thor as well) start beating the snot out of the Surfer and take him out before he makes a dent in Superman's power reserves? Yes.

So much for "one-shotting."

Depends on what your definition of instantaneously is. Because, Surfer has absorbed energy the moment it reached his skin, which by all means, could point to instantaneously. He has even absorbed energy from the air and from another target just as quickly. Superman may not sit there, but he has nothing to stop Surfer from draining him, and thus weakening him every second of the fight. If Surfer gets the inclination to even drain Superman, the same will go to Thor, especially if Thor is helping Superman -- this is before Superman and Thor would known to attack Surfer. This is consistent stuff for Surfer.

#39 Edited by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

Whether surfer let Panther is not the point.

For those making an argument from their ignorance of the character, they will continually say that Surfer or any character put in his situation, is a slow-poke, They'll say that its the "logical conclusion" to come to, despite any solid evidence to the contrary and nothing truly definitive to back them up.

Taking things out of context in order to mislead people about a characters abilities is how you debate anything.

Focusing solely on a character's low settings, no matter the circumstances that come with it, while totally ignoring their completely acceptable high showings, is what is known as low balling. You can't rightly debate by low-balling.

I haven't really read much of the thread but if people have been calling thor slow because he has stated wolverine is faster then him then its not low balling. There is a difference between being tagged and stating on panel that a character is faster then you.

#40 Posted by pooty (10836 posts) - - Show Bio

SS fighting the way he does is not PIS it's his character. Can Surfer attack when he is intangible? Regardless, SS loses.

#41 Posted by Killemall (18287 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor has beaten SS numberous times, if you think that's wrong, sue the writers.

Apart from Blood and Thunder, where Thor was on pseudo warrior madness, could you site me 1 instance where Thor has beaten Surfer before?

Coz numerous times has to entail more than once i would assume.

#42 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't surfer stomping beta ray bill in his own limited series? I don't know if I believe Bill and thor are equals but Bill is at the very least close to thors league (all though I hear Bill actually has better feats?), also not sure if this is true but I am told surfer has one shotted the thor of the cancerverse who is suppose to be on par with the real thor? Surfer may not have defeated thor but if I am right about all of this (admittedly there is a strong chance I am wrong as I only have vaguely seen scans of bill and surfer and have only heard about surfer one shotting cancerverse thor), then it is safe to say surfer is suepioer to thor IMO, even if he hasn't shown it in direct battles.

#43 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer more often than not.

#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37370 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@dum529001 said:

@jashro44:

Whether surfer let Panther is not the point.

For those making an argument from their ignorance of the character, they will continually say that Surfer or any character put in his situation, is a slow-poke, They'll say that its the "logical conclusion" to come to, despite any solid evidence to the contrary and nothing truly definitive to back them up.

Taking things out of context in order to mislead people about a characters abilities is how you debate anything.

Focusing solely on a character's low settings, no matter the circumstances that come with it, while totally ignoring their completely acceptable high showings, is what is known as low balling. You can't rightly debate by low-balling.

I haven't really read much of the thread but if people have been calling thor slow because he has stated wolverine is faster then him then its not low balling. There is a difference between being tagged and stating on panel that a character is faster then you.

It's also a bigger difference when people around a similar speed level of said character being faster have also done it or said similar to things. Like Cap and Spider-Man. Or people with no apparent super speed also say he is as fast as a cloud.

Moderator
#45 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

SS all night, all day

#46 Edited by xlab3000 (3147 posts) - - Show Bio

SS

#47 Posted by thanosii (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

I wanted to vote for the team but SS arguments are stronger I need to go research a bit be back with a final decision

#48 Posted by utkanflash (407 posts) - - Show Bio

Team take this easily...Actually ı think Thor or Supe doesnt matter..Goes solo but solo is the hard way..... Silver Surfer tough one but ı dont think he has a chance against them

#49 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath said:

Do you have any scans to show me of Surfer using it to find out other beings weaknesses? Other than him threatening Gladiator?

I found a few OOC scans, but I couldn't find their sources, sorry.

"It was a typo. It was suppose to say "big". Also I never said the whole confusing sentence you said above. I said that Surfer is at a big physical strength disadvantage, and will have to deal with both of them throwing multiple strike at him."

This is what you said:

"Superman is suffering from a bug physical strength disadvantage here. He has to deal with two super strong beings laying punches at him. Seeing how Mjolnir has hurt him badly before, I can see Thor doing it again. Alongside Superman."

It implies that Superman is; alongside Thor, going to hurt himself badly.

"Lol, so you pull up a Classic feat from Surfer. When will people understand that classic does not equal current? Pull up a scan that's not so old, and than we can go with that"

Wooooaaah, glass houses man, I've seen you throw around some pretty damn old scans before. But if it will please you--

"Thor has been said to move as fast as his lightning in current years."

Right, so old scans are a big no-no, but obvious hyperbole is fair game? Still wouldn't be enough of an improvement, Surfer's dodged FTL attacks with ease.

"That's his reaction speed. (Lighting is 224000 mph, and Thor's may move faster than regular lightning)"

Actually the *cough*hyperbole*cough* said nothing about reaction time, just movement speed.

"How about Surfers?"

I can tell you one thing, he's faster than Wolverine.

I believe Thor knows his own speed better than you do.

#50 Edited by AlexJRimmer (30 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: If that post doesn't seal it than nothing will. Silver Surfer for reasons lantern has stated