Silver Surfer Vs. Phoenix Cyclops

@world_breaker_elmo: @world_breaker_elmo:

Silver Surfer himself admitted that Thor's power is above his own. And comics usually show Thor>=Silver Surfer. When PF Cyclops one shotted Thor he had 1/5 of it's power. But it is beyond PIS lol. Thor was shown several times to be capable of harming full powered Phoenix.

PFC.

If Scott only had 1/5 of the PF power at that time I would definately agree that is ridiculous. Good point on bringing up the fact that Thor can and has damaged the full Phoenix before.

Well that's nonsense... I'm confused...

This

Tell that to writers lol. Also full phoenix force is equal to Galactus, and Thor has shown many times he's capable of harming Galactus too.

Thor is not capable of harming Galactus level beings, but his Skyfather level hammer of plot deviceness is. Without it he is Hercules with less fighting ability.

The God blast is also a plot device attack as it is RARELY used outside of the climax of an important story arc. Keep in mind if it was so potent then Thor would spam the hell out of it and end nearly every battle in time for dinner.

I had this debate with a couple of friends and they called me a Thor hater. Again, I am not. I am just pointing out what he is and is not capable of.

Getting back to the Surfer against a fully PF empowered Cyclops I believe it is a toss up. Cyclops is a replaceable peice in this situation. His hosting of the PF is in no way important. A PF powered optic blast is no more potent than a PF tk blast. Think of it in similar fashion to the powers gained through the Crimson Ruby of Cyttorak: The host's abilities and powers mean nothing as they are all reconditioned to a set level of power. With the PF it is a little different in that the power drawn and used from it varies if the host has particularly powerful psionic abilities themselves. This is why Cyke is no more potent with the PF whan say Colossus, Namor or Ralph Wiggum. Some may argue his connection to Jean Grey but this does not make him a telepath/psionic himself and AT MOST would make him a small bit more comfortable hosting the PF, but not channeling it to any special degree that any other non psychic could not.

Ooookay... So can we just declare a "draw" and go to our homes now? )

You are very wrong mate. He's not Hercules with less fighting skill without Mjolnir. Without his hammer Thor can still control weather, fly by controling wind around him, project energy and perform godblast.

cyclops doesnt have the experience with that kind of power to fight someone like silver surfer... although i do believes he has more raw power then SS he can definitely lose due to experience. if experience isnt a factor and he is fully possessed by the phoenix force.. then cyke wins but all in all surfer takes it

I did get a little off by lowering Thor like that. My appologies.

Yes Thor can control weather, but to what significant degree can he without his Hammer?I would have no problems for it being stated on a planetary level, in similar fashion to Storm's if not higher. BUT, what does that mean to someone like Galactus? Nothing.

As for Thor being a lesser skilled fighter than Herc, I do stand by this as Herc has outgrappled Thor in the past, with Thor even stating that Herc is his superior in such matters:

Getting back to the topic of Surfer vs PF Cyke. I still am torn as both are powered by equally powerful beings that hold a rigid significance to the universe. It would be like a champion of Master Order battling a champion of Lord Chaos.

Eh, I would bet that Cyke has a greater portion of the PF than Silver Surfer has of the power cosmic.

@x_insignia1: That is a good point. The "portion" of PC that Norrin has has been described in different ways at different times. In some instances being referred to as simply "a portion" of the total PC weilded by Galactus. Other times he has been stated to having total control over all the PC but is limited in it's use due to some sorts of mental blocks. The second reasoning has been more accepted as it has proven an easier means of letting Galactus power up the Surfer whenever he needs by simply lessening the mental blocks.

As for the portion vs portion battle: I still do not see it as a clear win for either. If you are basing it on a shootout between a full PF vs a partial PC then that does not take into consideration the years of experience Norrin has manipulating the PC on large scales vs a Cyclops who does not have much experience at all controlling energy anywhere near this level.

Cyclops one shots him.

Can people stop saying that!?

@world_breaker_elmo: Why? Given Scott's feats, it's plausible. Even if the arc was a piece of crap. @cyberwarrior: Feel free to back up your stance /shrug

Scott's? No. The PF itself? Yes. As I stated before, Scott is a replaceable part.

This gets back to how a reader compares the Phoenix Force against the Power Cosmic in their entireties. As was also stated previously, to accuractely compare both forces one would have to keep in mind their individual sources and the universal importance each holds. This in a lot of ways comes down between the Phoenix and Galactus. Again their are many things to consider: Do you believe one plays a more significant role in the universe than the other? If so, by how much? Could one survive without the other? Does one's history of feats actually overshadow or simply outnumber the other? Considering the magnitude of the larger implications thsi match has I am sure you can come up with many other points to contest. The point I am trying to make is this is in no way an easily decided victory for either.

Silver Surfer wins the heat.

What? Since when? I haven't read much of the Surfer post-Annihilation, but I read plenty of his stuff from before that, and the Surfer always had his own personal set of powers, also meaning his own personal limitations, and he was certainly never presented as being anywhere even remotely close to 20% of Galactus' power. Just how many times has Galactus upgraded him in such a fashion?

I'm not even sure I buy the Phoenix only being equal to Galactus. Classically, from what I recall the Phoenix was always viewed as a greater power than him, but Galactus' role has changed a lot over the years. The only confrontation between the two I've seen, Galactus lost quite badly, although he was hungry at the time.

Anyway, I'm going to go with the Thor comparison. The Surfer and Thor have battled often enough to make it clear Marvel views them as essentially operating on the same tier. There powers are obviously not identical, but Thor can take the Surfer on a good day, and vice versa, and Thor looked completely outclassed every time he tried going up against even one of the Phoenix Five. I don't see the Surfer's energy manipulation powers being enough to make up the difference in raw power.

I would also argue that Thor being able to harm the full Phoenix Force at all is PIS, not his problems with the Phoenix Five. The idea he can legitimately knock out a universal level cosmic being is ridiculous. If he could reliably do that, then he should have taken the Surfer's head clean off in their last scuffle. I've also only ever seen Thor harm Galactus once, and that was after he was exhausted from his battle with Ego, and it required calling on Odin's Power (a bit of a retcon that was presented in a much later Thor Annual).

Surfer loses, IMO.

@world_breaker_elmo: This isn't PF vs PC. It's Scott vs Norrin. And given Surfers history and Scotts feats, it's very plausible that Surfer will be one shot from a direct hit.

The rest of your post is pretty off topic tbh.

Oh, and this is very much easily decided. Even at 1/5 power, Scott would be beyond Surfer. Let alone peak where he casually one shots Marvels greatest heroes.

surfer

@world_breaker_elmo said:

@fernando072295reborn said:

Cyclops one shots him.

!!

I ask myself what lvenger would say here

Cyclops should win this.He's a tactical genius and master tactician.He can use TK and Telepathy ,he has one shotted the avengers and stopped thor's hammer.He could destory surfers board and then pawn galactus like a puppet.anyway,his most powerfull blast(ordinary cyke)rips a moon apart.Cykes P5 most powerful blast should take down opponets like thanos or destroy earth.I don't see any waysurfer is winning here.cyke burstomp.He has tenfold surfers power and the mind to use it.If they are off morals cyke wins like at 20 seconds.

Surfer

Cyclops wins based on his few feats

Scott, Because it's the f*cking Phoenix Force, man

Surfer wins with ease.

PFC wins handily

@jezzupwuzzup:

With what ease? How can he hurt somebody who was only taken out by his own morals and plot device and stomped people Surfer struggles to take down himself?

The OP should have specified how much Phoenix Force Cyclops has.

1/5 I think Surfer would win. But 1/4 and above Surfer would likely lose.

Scott wins

This is a close one.

Cyclops.

Sooo... By using out of context Gladiator hit and Captain America's plot shield makes a case for Surfer than I am sure it's going to be one hell of a debate lolo

Only if Gladiator wasn't thrashed like he never had in his whole history afterwards and Cyclops couldn't stop Mjolnir with a pinky, the same weapon that gives hell to Surfer every time.

Yes yes good arguments here.

Silversurfer is being given too much credit here.......

P5 Cyclops

Cyclops

@adamtrmm: lol its not an out of context Gladiator hit... he didnt say Gladiator won or lost he merely showed that Gladiator has fought the P5. he didnt post the the background behind it but he didnt mislead anyone with it.

And he makes a good point Gladiator was able to last a substantially long time against Scott and the P5. see no reason why Surfer shouldnt last just as long or why he doesnt win.

@serrure:

It's absolutely out of context since Scott was only in a defensive mode and tried to reason with Glad while dodging him. It doesn't show he would've last in a full blown battle because he was annihilated as the result, so yes this scan is irrelevant.

The reason why Surfer will also get thrashed is because people who generally give him a decent fight were getting pimp slapped by P5 consistently.

Cyclops with ease.

Phoenix Force (even divided through several hosts) > Thor > Silver Surfer

Surfer! He could power siphon and send scott of to ko.

Surfer due to more feats...

Bump does Surfer have anymore feats now that put him on Phoenix Scott's level?