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#1 Edited by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus reaches into the DC universe and combines the powers of 3 of it's top heroes to make a new herald. But first, he wants this new herald to face off against Silver Surfer to see which is more powerful. The new herald consists of:

-Martian Manhunter

-Wally West's speed

-GL ring powers (no ring needed, power is internalized, no recharging needed) with Hal Jordan's level of mastery and willpower

and Galactus names him... the Green Flasher! =)

VS

Silver Surfer

No prep, in character but fighting to win. Battle takes place in space. Win by KO or death.

Can the Green Flasher defeat the Silver Surfer?

#2 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Herald constructs a road to Surfer. Flash's speed takes out Surfer before Surfer can think.

Composite Herald stomps.

#3 Posted by Immortal777 (7732 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer: Why would GF need to contruct a road when he can just fly.

#4 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777: to use Flash's running speed. But if GL with Flash's speed can just fly at Wally's speed, I see your point.

Main thing is, composite herald stomps.

#5 Posted by GhostRider2 (3498 posts) - - Show Bio

But MM and lantern is no match for surfer,surfer has speed but not good at reflexes.And what can flash do to him, just punch him?

#6 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2: Flash's punches can easily hurt Surfer. Combined with GL's strength and MM's strength he can definitely hurt Surfer. 100 punches in one second will easily put Surfer down. Flash could also speedsteal him, turning him into a statue.

And since when has MM been no match for Surfer?

#7 Posted by GhostRider2 (3498 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer: Well what can MM do to Surfer, Surfer beats him.Don't underestimate the Surfer.

#8 Posted by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

@GhostRider2: Flash's punches can easily hurt Surfer. Combined with GL's strength and MM's strength he can definitely hurt Surfer. 100 punches in one second will easily put Surfer down. Flash could also speedsteal him, turning him into a statue.

And since when has MM been no match for Surfer?

I didnt include speed-steal in the Green Flashers powers... seemed unfair. He only has the speed of Flash, not all the speed force powers.

#9 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2 said:

@ChaosBlazer: Well what can MM do to Surfer, Surfer beats him.Don't underestimate the Surfer.

any proof? Right now you're just making claims.

MM's strength + GL's strength + Wally's speed + MM and GL's flight means that the composite herald will fly up to Surfer, punch him a few hundred times, or speedsteal him, winning the fight in less than a second with extreme ease.

#10 Posted by GhostRider2 (3498 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer: Did you read the other SS vs MM topics?What proof do you need SS stomps MM and he beat this Green Flasher.

#11 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: his speed is still enough to grant him an easy win.

@GhostRider2: Surfer can defeat MM, but he cannot defeat a guy who is thousands of times faster than him, and even a little stronger than him. Composite herald is way too fast for Surfer to even react to before he's being pummeled and beaten up.

What proof do you have that Surfer could defeat somebody with Flash's speed and the combined strength of MM and a GL? When has Surfer ever defeated somebody as fast as Flash?

#12 Posted by GhostRider2 (3498 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer: Even with their strenght SS is not gonna die or get beaten.

#13 Posted by Immortal777 (7732 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash's combat speed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Surfer combat speed

#14 Posted by GhostRider2 (3498 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777: right but a few punches is not gonna affect the surfer.

#15 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2 said:

@ChaosBlazer: Even with their strenght SS is not gonna die or get beaten.

not true.

@GhostRider2 said:

@Immortal777: right but a few punches is not gonna affect the surfer.

any proof? MM and GL's strength and durability + Flash's speed is way more than Surfer can handle.

Again, give some proof for once instead of just making claims.

#16 Posted by GhostRider2 (3498 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer: if hulk strenght is not enough how is gonna be this?

#17 Posted by Immortal777 (7732 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2: Thanos with his damn near featless strength was able to beat SS to death.

#18 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2: Hulk's strength is enough to hurt Surfer. Again, the composite herald has Flash's speed. thousands of Superman-level punches (MM + Hal's strength is probably in this range) per second will definitely put Surfer down.

Also, somebody with Flash's speed will punch alot harder than Hulk ever will. Punches aren't based on strength alone, speed is a huge factor as well. As speed increases, mass increases on an object. Therefore Flash's speed combined with GL and MM's strength put into thousands of punches a second will be more force and power than Hulk would ever have.

#19 Posted by SlimJ87D (10557 posts) - - Show Bio

I can think of many loop holes for your composite.

1. One is the Flashes speed. The Speed Force is meant for living embodiment and it can lend its powers to living beings. But nowhere have I seen it lend it's power to another power such as energy manipulation. Because MM and GL fly due to a biosphere and green ring, I do not see the Flashes abilities doing much in space. Even if he tried to build a road, the Ring constructs at a certain speed rate that isn't as fast as the Flashes powers are.

So Flashes powers are pretty much useless due to my loop hole exploit.

2. Another loop hole is Martian Manhunters abilities. Is this composite just a green martian? Or is it Jonn himself? If it's just a green martian than it's not resistant to fire and therefore by inheriting a green martians powers you also inherit their weakness. If SS exploits extreme heat energies then the composite is done for.

But if those loop hole is bypassed by the OP, then I think the composite will probably win.

#20 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: Couldn't the composite theoretically fly with Wally's speed?

#21 Posted by Immortal777 (7732 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't GF still have flashes reaction speed regardless.

#22 Posted by SlimJ87D (10557 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

@SlimJ87D: Couldn't the composite theoretically fly with Wally's speed?

I want to put this topic aside and just discuss the speed force. I love the concept of the speed force and studied it the most out of all my favorite comic book heroes and villains. But in the DC Universe, what is flying and how is it done? It's mostly done through energy manipulation of some sort. We haven't seen a person that can fly and use the speed force together in the main DC Universe from my knowledge.

There was a part where Barry and Hal had to move together really fast and he had Hal construct a chain around himself and he ran both of them to their destination. Why didn't he just hop on Hal's back and lend his speed force to Hal and his Ring to move that way?

The biggest thing I learned from the speed force is that it's very vague, has a lot of loop holes and according to the 4 of the DC writers, the hardest power they have a time writing for.

I only made my post to point out things I have never seen done with the speed force and not sure if they work well with other powers. I can be wrong.

#23 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@Immortal777: Im not sure but I know both MM and lantern use thought based weapons thay aren't fast enough to keep up with flashes reaction time so I would think he would lose at least some of his reation time when using MM's and lanterns abilities

#24 Posted by cliffrice (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer drains the ring forcing Composite herald to rely on Flight speed which surfer has way faster than MM, than blasts his to crap from a lightyear away.

Someone mentioned thanos's strength. His physical strength is at least Plent-buster level and that was even before his verry first buff. When he beat surfer to death with his bare hands was after his second buff. SO being beaten to death by thanos isnt anything to scoff at in the durability department as it still took several strikes.

#25 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

I know this is a weird question but couldn't surfer drain the energy from the speed force like he drained hulks gamma radiation?would he than be able to use the speed force??sorry,im fairly new and not sure if that would work

#26 Posted by DCFan1992 (222 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty creative.

#27 Edited by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

I can think of many loop holes for your composite.

1. One is the Flashes speed. The Speed Force is meant for living embodiment and it can lend its powers to living beings. But nowhere have I seen it lend it's power to another power such as energy manipulation. Because MM and GL fly due to a biosphere and green ring, I do not see the Flashes abilities doing much in space. Even if he tried to build a road, the Ring constructs at a certain speed rate that isn't as fast as the Flashes powers are.

So Flashes powers are pretty much useless due to my loop hole exploit.

2. Another loop hole is Martian Manhunters abilities. Is this composite just a green martian? Or is it Jonn himself? If it's just a green martian than it's not resistant to fire and therefore by inheriting a green martians powers you also inherit their weakness. If SS exploits extreme heat energies then the composite is done for.

But if those loop hole is bypassed by the OP, then I think the composite will probably win.

1. Green Flasher would get enhanced thought, movement, and reaction times... equal to Flash. But, that would not apply to flying. As far as constructs, we have no idea what the speed of constructs are, so we cant say how fast they'd be.

2. It's Martian Manhunter, as stated in the OP.

@ChaosBlazer said:

@SlimJ87D: Couldn't the composite theoretically fly with Wally's speed?

No. He could run as fast as Flash, but not fly faster because flight is a power not associated with his physical movement. Nevertheless, both Martian Manhunter and GL have very fast flight. GL is capable of moving through space much faster than light.

@Immortal777 said:

Wouldn't GF still have flashes reaction speed regardless.

Yes.

#28 Posted by imbackwimps (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

Ss stomps hard cosmic power just to much

#29 Posted by SlimJ87D (10557 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: From my memory and knowledge, Green Lanterns do not fly or move at FTL speeds or at Light speeds. They jump through worm holes, etc and that is equivalent to teleporting I believe. Or like how they travel in Sci Fi movies.

#30 Posted by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

@WillPayton: From my memory and knowledge, Green Lanterns do not fly or move at FTL speeds or at Light speeds. They jump through worm holes, etc and that is equivalent to teleporting I believe. Or like how they travel in Sci Fi movies.

Ok. I dont remember the specifics, but I know they can cross the galaxy pretty quickly. You're probably right that it's wormholes or whatever.

#31 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: speed force is faster than thought so i think he would lose reaction time on the basis that both MM and green lantern use thought based weapons.don't you or am i missing something??

#32 Posted by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012 said:

@WillPayton: speed force is faster than thought so i think he would lose reaction time on the basis that both MM and green lantern use thought based weapons.don't you or am i missing something??

Having Flash's speed means he can do everything at that speed, including thinking. Flash doesnt just move and run fast, he thinks fast too... otherwise he'd be slamming into things all the time.

#33 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: good point.so with the ring MM abilities and flashes speed force,don't ya think this is kinda overkill??

#34 Posted by terry2012 (5755 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012: Welcome to the vine.

@SlimJ87D: Where did they said that? Because They can fly and move FTL ( this is Pre-crisis). Can they also create wormholes (like you said), time travel, Teleportation, and can Fly at speeds beyond that of light.( I guess what this is saying is that this speed is can move beyond light but it is not faster then the speed of light). I do not know about you tell me. Here is the link I got my information from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Lantern . If it is found to be not accurate then I repent. We can just go by what the comic book said. so do anybody have the comic that said the fly and go faster than the speed of light.

#35 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012: thanks.i think between speed force,MM abilities and lanterns ring,herald has this one

#36 Posted by terry2012 (5755 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012: Yes I do too.

#37 Posted by tomdickharry1984 (837 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite

#38 Posted by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012 said:

@WillPayton: good point.so with the ring MM abilities and flashes speed force,don't ya think this is kinda overkill??

I dont think it's overkill, Silver Surfer is insanely fast, powerful, and versatile. Also, plenty of people so far think SS wins, so it's at least debatable.

#39 Posted by JonSmith (4008 posts) - - Show Bio

If Black Panther can beat Surfer, I see no reason this composite dude can't.

#40 Posted by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

If Black Panther can beat Surfer, I see no reason this composite dude can't.

#41 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

The Composite Herald should definitely win.

#42 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: I have to disagree.its debatable for surfer vs any one of these characters with surfer usually coming out on top.to put all three characters together like this is almost spite

#43 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1845 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012: While I am not sure surfer would win, it is not spite,

SS is comparable to this composite in every category

Greater energy manipulation

Comparable strength through the power cosmic

Equal movement speed

Reaction speed debatable, probably not as great

Can shrug off MM TP (he shrugged off TP attacks from Moondragon with the Mind Gem)

Intangibility isn't going to help the composite, SS has been shown to hurt beings that are intangible.

#44 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: thats not what makes it spite.giving him all those powers plus flashes reaction time isn't really debatable,with all those and flashes reaction time you can't even really put up a good debate for surfer

#45 Posted by WillPayton (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012 said:

@Man_of_Miracles: thats not what makes it spite.giving him all those powers plus flashes reaction time isn't really debatable,with all those and flashes reaction time you can't even really put up a good debate for surfer

I think you're underestimating the Surfers speed.

#46 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: I would say in telepathy they are close to even.speed close to even{except reaction time}now add in the ring + reaction time and you get surfer being pommeled before he can even react

#47 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1845 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012: Sure you can, it is possible to argue that SS has comparable reaction time to Flash, not enough to not get hit but enough to hit him back, he can certainly perceive things at light speed, and probably ftl. I am not saying it would be easy but it is conceivable that SS could win.

#48 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: no im not under estimating surfer.alright,how do you counter him having and using the ring before surfer can even have a complete thought??yes i know about his nanosecond reaction speed but given flash reaction speed is so much greater and with weapons like that,I can't even make a decent arguement for him.can you??

#49 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (1845 posts) - - Show Bio

@beyonder2012: I actually do not think that their TP is that close. I don't think MM's TP will be able to effect him at all.

Shrugging off Moondragon's TP while she has the Mind Gem is more than enough to show that he wouldn't have trouble with MM TP.

And yes we can, the power ring does not exceed SS's control of energy. SS has survived super nova's and black holes, it is going to take a lot to put him down.

#50 Posted by beyonder2012 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@Man_of_Miracles: don't get me wrongt.Im a fan of surfer so I hate debating the other way but he is out matched here.MM mental blasted spectre{PIS but it happened}so they are at least even in telepathy.SSenergy manipulation is stronger by far but with flashes reation time,he wouldn't be able to manipulate said energy because flashes reation time far exceeds surfers and mixed with the ring,puts surfer at a huge disadvantage