Silver Surfer vs Monarch

@CapitolPunishment said:

@Static Shock: How?

Silver Surfer still has beter feats than Monarch does.

@Static Shock: Please define feats which you see as better, he has had many many more showings than Monarch but better? I don't think so. For the most part all he does in combat is shoot energy blasts, drain power, transmute/manipulate energy and matter. Monarch has done most of this on higher scales, trying any of the above against Monarch may be fatal. I see the SS with only three advantages here. 1) Flight speed advantage but I don't see how it will help him at all in a battle. 2) He also has cosmic awareness, again I'm not sure how that will help him against Monarch, I've never seen it do any good for him in a fight against someone with greater power. 3) Last but not least he has telepathy, the only thing of note imo that could give him am advantage. I'm open to ideas here though.

@CapitolPunishment: I think energy output, most of all, is better. Silver Surfer destroy with his energy. Monarch only destroyed a continent. When his armor was ripped open, he did destroy a universe, but that was only because the energy was released all at once. We can't be sure if he could destroy a planet, let alone a universe if he wills himself to do so. Draining power is equal among the both of them, in my opinion. Transmuation still goes to Surfer. Monarch hasn't display any feats in this category. He has as Captain Atom, but even then, Surfer's ability to affect matter still outshined his and he has a larger abundance of feats in that category. Whether or not Monarch's ability to affect matter is on a higher scale that it was when he was Captain Atom was never revealed. Cosmic awareness should be able to reveal weaknesses, but Monarch had none. Telepathy is a touchy subject. Captain Atom was immune to mind control, but was shown to be susceptible to other forms of telepathy.

 I think energy output, most of all, is better. Silver Surfer destroy with his energy. Monarch only destroyed a continent. When his armor was ripped open, he did destroy a universe, but that was only because the energy was released all at once. We can't be sure if he could destroy a planet, let alone a universe if he wills himself to do so.

I have to disagree with the energy output. While monarch has never destroyed a planet, he also has never been tasked to do so, as i mentioned before his showings are limited. When he destroyed the continent that is all he wanted to destroy, he was not trying to destroy the planet. Remember he was on a conquest to take over the Multiverse starting with Earth so logically he would not even try to destroy it. While when his suit was destroyed the energy inside took the entire universe out with it, that is a massive amount of energy. Saying he has the ability to willfully destroy a planet or a universe is only speculation but considering what the entirety of his energy did, destroying a planet is not baseless speculation.There are hundreds of billions of planets in a Galaxy alone and billions of Galaxies in a Universe, a single planet should be pretty easy for him to willfully destroy, not an entire universe though.
 
Sorry for the length of this part but there is a reason behind it. It was noted by the Monitors themselves as well as Monarch that he had been watching them and planning to get them on that planet to destroy them all in a single attack. As a result a short battle broke on between Monarch's forces, the Monitors and there supporters. The monitors knew that Monarch had the power to destroy them, his presence sent Monitor Nix Uton flying into the atmosphere in tears, forced the others to leave that Earth and also forced the monitor Solomon to transport Superman Prime from the nexus of reality to that Earth to battle Monarch because he knew they had no hope in stopping him. The only reason I mentioned this part is because the Monitors, while far from being the best fighters are extremely durable and powerful. A Monitor named Bob effortlessly killed Barry Allen (Flash) then was attacked by Green Lantern Kyle Rayner, he made a comment that the GL's power ring is the most powerful weapon in the Universe, compared to him he said something along these lines "attacking me is like trying to destroy the Sun with a Sling shot" and powerful Lanterns are at least at the planet destroying level. That specific Monitor (BOB) stalemated Monitor Nix and was later Killed/absorbed by Solomon, both Nix and Solomon fled from Monarch. Nix later survived the big bang like explosion let off when Monarch's suit was destroyed. So although massive, it was not a focused and powerful enough attack to destroy him. Earlier during the brief battle that involved the monitors and Monarchs forces Monarch made an announcement to his troops to get away from the Monitors, that he was going to destroy them himself. He said anything within a 20 mile radius would be destroyed. This shows that he has the ability to emit a focused energy attack powerful enough to destroy all of the Monitors at once but at the same time containing the blast to a radius of 20 miles. 
 
Basically what I'm trying to say it that just because Monarch has not destroyed a planet (because he was never tasked with doing so) does not mean he cannot let off a more focused explosion/blast that is more powerful than one that would be required to destroy a planet. The first big blast he hit SMP with greatly injured him and he began to shrink back down to his normal size (in the issue before that SMP flew right through earth and destroyed it and took no damage in the process) so that means allot in terms of the actual energy involved. Regular Superman took a what appeared to be a similar sized explosion from a nuke while laying face down in Kryptonite and was still able to contain it with a whirlwind and take it out to space and remained unharmed. So the radius and collateral damage of an explosion does not always = the energy involved sorta like a high powered laser hitting something. A focused high energy attack from Monarch would have massive collateral damage similar to a nuke going off because it is just that powerful, that does not mean at the center of the blast the heat and energy is equal to a nuke, it would be far greater considering such a blast would be meant to destroy Monitors and Supermen on steroids. Again sorry for typing so much there, just hard to explain what I mean.
 
Also worth noting is that SMP's heat vision was enough to vaporize that Earths Superman in a matter of seconds, he also used it to destroy Atlantis from shore pretty much instantly. When he used it against Monarch it went completely unnoticed.
 

Draining power is equal among the both of them, in my opinion.

Again, i would have to disagree. I think this would be equal between SS and Captain Atom. Sufer can not drain and contain unlimited energy, he has been overloaded in the past a few times when too much was directed at him at once and he tried to absorb it. The same goes for Captain Atom, when he tries to drain and absorb to much in one shot he quantum jumps. When Monarch was able to absorb all of the Captain Atom's in the Multiverse, quickly in one shot, that showed me that his energy draining and absorption abilities have increased on a tremendous scale. Also when he died it showed how much energy was actually inside of him so that would indicate at the very least how much he can take in before being overloaded which is vastly more energy then what is inside the Silver Surfer at any given time. I honestly do not see how Monarch would have any trouble at all absorbing every drop of energy inside the Silver Surfer then killing him in while he is in powerless state.
 

 Transmuation still goes to Surfer. Monarch hasn't display any feats in this category. He has as Captain Atom, but even then, Surfer's ability to affect matter still outshined his and he has a larger abundance of feats in that category. Whether or not Monarch's ability to affect matter is on a higher scale that it was when he was Captain Atom was never revealed.

I agree with you here, in my earlier post I stated Monarch has done most of the things I mentioned better. I would assume Monarch retained the same transmutation abilities that Captain Atom had but as you said it was never indicated that that power had also increased. If you believe that Surfers ability is greater than Captain Atom's are in this category I will take your word for it.
 

Cosmic awareness should be able to reveal weaknesses, but Monarch had none. Telepathy is a touchy subject. Captain Atom was immune to mind control, but was shown to be susceptible to other forms of telepathy.

@Morpheus_ said:

I would change it to Surfer for the sake of the debate, but I honestly think Monarch would win.

I don't let what I honestly believe get in the way of the argument I want to make, haha. Doesn't it seem like it would be a fun challenge?

I don't let what I honestly believe get in the way of the argument I want to make, haha.

@Morpheus_ said:

@vuviper said:

I don't let what I honestly believe get in the way of the argument I want to make, haha.

Neither do I, but I likely wanted to iterate my position.

But, frankly, Ididn't even remember I posted in this thread.

Old friend, I didn't realize your memory was leaving you :-P

@Morpheus_: You will have me full of regret and embarrassment if you are referring to a serious mental impediment and not just day to day forgetfulness

@Morpheus_: You will have me full of regret and embarrassment if you are referring to a serious mental impediment and not just day to day forgetfulness

@Morpheus_: Glad to hear it.

Now go find someone to debate with before you forget how old man

MONARCH

Monarch, he is the same level as ion

Was this a serious thread?

Monarch would have been stronger.

Monarch stomps lol. Guy has no sold attacks from three versions of Hal at once and various heroes across the Multiverse in Countdown.

Monarch stomp hard