#1 Edited by XiiX (9472 posts) - - Show Bio

-What factor does Martian-Manhunter's telepathy play against Silver Surfer?

-Can Martian Manhunter defeat Silver Surfer more often than not due to his telepathy?

#2 Edited by Perethorn (3760 posts) - - Show Bio

MM telepathy could affect the SS, but i don´t think he beats Norrin only with TP

And no, i don´t think Surfer TP abilities are powerful enough to defeat the Martian. Without TP from MM, SS can beat the Martian without much trouble.

#3 Edited by dondave (38893 posts) - - Show Bio

@xiix: He could probably beat SS with TP, but I don't know the level of Silver Surfer's telepathy

#4 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Mahunter should be much superior in telepathy than Surfer and i dont see why MM couldnt take Silver Surfer with telepathy.

That being said Silver Surfer himself being a pretty powerful telepath, could likely fight off Martian's telepathy for some time, and Surfer does have pretty scary matter manipulation to take Martian Manhunter down.

The guy has matter manipulation on planetary scale twice, recreated an entire city while being weakened with no problem etc. Martian has very little answer to that level of matter manipulation.

Do let me know if you want feat, coz i know Lvenger in another thread is actually debating SS vs Cyborg Superman, maybe i should just post scans and tag him :p , coz more or less the same should be useful again Cyborg ;)

#5 Edited by BullPR (1614 posts) - - Show Bio

Quite recently, in the first episodes of the Annihilators from the hypersapce, SS was capable, while still traveling and at distance of a planet, ton calm down and reassure the whole population of this planet. Not sure SS abilities are not even better in this domain than MMH. Remember also some time ago, he was able to resist to Moondragon with her infinity Gem...

#6 Edited by FrozenPhoenix (1722 posts) - - Show Bio

It's always surprised me that, for an inter-galactic being with cosmic powers, Norrin sure has some confidence issues. Always questioning himself, worrying about what he's done wrong, crying about his lost planet and family.

Maybe all of this is enough for MM to take advantage of.

#7 Posted by BullPR (1614 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Mahunter should be much superior in telepathy than Surfer and i dont see why MM couldnt take Silver Surfer with telepathy.


I didn't read enough DC comics since a very long time to be up to date for its characters, but from what I know and remember from MMH, I don't see what feats do you have in mind that would justify your position.

Both have planetary TP and most if not whole of SS power comes from the astral plan.

#8 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@bullpr said:


I didn't read enough DC comics since a very long time to be up to date for its characters, but from what I know and remember from MMH, I don't see what feats do you have in mind that would justify your position.

Both have planetary TP and most if not whole of SS power comes from the astral plan.

Source of power is irrelevant, not only have we clearly seen taken down by TP in more than one occasion, we have seen Silver Surfer being vulnerable to TP more than once.

As per feats, Surfer has 2 planetary TP feat , one during Annihilation which you mentioned, there is an earlier one where he tries to matter manipulate entire planet to evolve them and manages to pyschically feel their pain and stuffs when it goes wrong.

Martian Manhunter has scary feats, he was taken on other white Martian capable of performing planetary TP, he has shielded heroes from TP of a guy who can use TP on a galaxy scale, he has forcefully enter the mind of Spectre, twice now, read everyone's mind on Earth twice, mindcontrolled JLA.

Its just the sheer volume of TP feats from Martian Manhunter and scope seems far beyond Surfer. CitizenBane has a whole Martian Manhunter respect thread, you will find tons of TP feat from him that is way beyond anything Surfer has done.

#9 Posted by patzello (457 posts) - - Show Bio

If they were in a telepathic arm wrestling match, I am pretty sure that J'onn would win with an Over the Top climactic struggle. With that said, as pointed out above, Surfer's telepathy, while impressive, is not his most impressive feat. Against MMH he would have enough will to fight off a mental attack, then make a move with his juicy stuff, aka matter/energy control.

#10 Posted by BullPR (1614 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Ok. Lack of knowledge of the DC universe from me.

For the feat I was mentioning , it wasn't from annihilation but from the 2d episode of Annihilators, P5-6 before the team arrives on Galador.

So if we go back to this battle, maybe SS has no better feats and can not beat MMH. But the fact that he was able to resist to potentially infinite level of telepathic attacks (Moondragon with the Gem, can't find any much better in the Marvel Multiverse unless going at the abstract level), would allow him to stalemate MMH.

I guess people could disagree with that, but that would be more subjective than anything else.

#11 Edited by dondave (38893 posts) - - Show Bio

@bullpr said:

@killemall: Ok. Lack of knowledge of the DC universe from me.

For the feat I was mentioning , it wasn't from annihilation but from the 2d episode of Annihilators, P5-6 before the team arrives on Galador.

So if we go back to this battle, maybe SS has no better feats and can not beat MMH. But the fact that he was able to resist to potentially infinite level of telepathic attacks (Moondragon with the Gem, can't find any much better in the Marvel Multiverse unless going at the abstract level), would allow him to stalemate MMH.

I guess people could disagree with that, but that would be more subjective than anything else.

IIRC Adam Warlock limited Moondragon's use of Mind Gem @killemall should know more about this

#12 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets start from here, Moondragon's telepathy would only be infinite level if she knew how to tap into the powers properly, frankly she didnt.

In the same series she tried to TP Surfer, what people miss is she herself was being mindcontrolled by Goddess, alongside everyone else there. So not much of infinite TP.

Moondragon also failed to TP Thor with soul gem.

Moondragon with Thanos help, finally managed to enter Galactus mind, and got easily whacked out.

Moondragon couldnt so much as read Thanos brain with the said gem, and in reply Thanos explained it was because "Of course I am Thanos" , perfect reply :p LOL

Thats not including Surfer himself having TPed by The Others, then by Psycho Man.

There are various other instances where TP has worked just fine on Surfer.

@dondave said:

IIRC Adam Warlock limited Moondragon's use of Mind Gem @killemall should know more about this

We dont really know what limitation Adam Warlock put in, apart from the fact that he did. Its stated here in Warlock and the Infinity Watch 08

#13 Posted by FrozenPhoenix (1722 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Edited by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Lol... Thanos said "lad".

Well he is referring to Adam Warlock so yeah :p

There is a funny part next panel from the one i posted, where Moondragon says i cant read you mind either.

Moondragon: I cant see into yours (your mind) either

Thanos: Of course not. I am Thanos.

Thanos has a trollish grin on his face :p

hehe poor Moondragon got trolled by the guy who fell in love with the very embodiment of Death, and lol got friendzoned :p

#15 Edited by BullPR (1614 posts) - - Show Bio

I said potentially infinite, because of some of the limitations you noticed. My main point was that in the Marvel universe, Moondragon (already a recognized powerful TP) and the Mind Gem, is, for me, the best TP that can be found below the abstract level (and probably also Odin now that he showed that he was able to at least start a pure TP fight with Galactus ).
The message from the writer there, again for me, was that SS can not be beaten by TP below abstract level.

Thats not including Surfer himself having TPed by The Others, then by Psycho Man.

There are various other instances where TP has worked just fine on Surfer.

It wasn't PIS or WIS?
To be honest, if I read that, I sincerely don't remember it.
If regular and "canon" feat, that would infirm my hypothesis (SS resistance=maximum of non abstract level in the MU)
The meaning in a TP fight against MMH would then be open to interpretation.
Probably a win for MMH if he is considered as the best TP in the DC universe and if we assume that in the MU he would have the same standing.
#16 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@bullpr said:

I said potentially infinite, because of some of the limitations you noticed. My main point was that in the Marvel universe, Moondragon (already a recognized powerful TP) and the Mind Gem, is, for me, the best TP that can be found below the abstract level (and probably also Odin now that he showed that he was able to at least start a pure TP fight with Galactus ).

Well we have seen so many instance that contradict that though, her not being able to TP Thor with Gem (she has in a classic issue not only TPed but made Thor into her sex slave bar the gem), not being able to TP Thanos (but that dude is beastly with TP defense), outright being mindcontrolled by Goddess, needing help and still easily being kicked out by Galactus.

There are plentry of instances that contradict her being a really powerful telepathy.

The message from the writer there, again for me, was that SS can not be beaten by TP below abstract level.

But he has TP has work fine on him on so many occasions.

It wasn't PIS or WIS?
To be honest, if I read that, I sincerely don't remember it.
If regular and "canon" feat, that would infirm my hypothesis (SS resistance=maximum of non abstract level in the MU)
The meaning in a TP fight against MMH would then be open to interpretation.
Probably a win for MMH if he is considered as the best TP in the DC universe and if we assume that in the MU he would have the same standing.

Well there are other feats to suggest it wasnt. Like Wrath Queen having no problem TPing him in the 1st run of Annihilation, lucky for him he physically disconnected the connection.

Hebe being telepathically show him Shalla Bal without her being there.

Supernallia also mindcontrolled Silver Surfer alongside a bunch of heroes using Celestial Mindwave

The same series with Moondragon, SS was mindcontrolled by the Goddess which he eventually broke free.

Not a single bio or issue has ever said he is immune to TP either or anything along the line.

Its really hard to assume those are PIS.

#17 Posted by BullPR (1614 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: "

Well there are other feats to suggest it wasnt. Like Wrath Queen having no problem TPing him in the 1st run of Annihilation, lucky for him he physically disconnected the connection.I agree.

(...)

The same series with Moondragon, SS was mindcontrolled by the Goddess which he eventually broke free.(that's in favor of SS that...)

Not a single bio or issue has ever said he is immune to TP either or anything along the line.(Indeed)

Its really hard to assume those are PIS."

Ok. Convinced.

In a pure TP battle, SS would fight, hard, but will lose at the end.

#18 Posted by KenLeo101 (213 posts) - - Show Bio

his telepathy can work on him. he has to be fast enough tho

#19 Posted by comic_book_fan (5943 posts) - - Show Bio

in a purely telepathic fight manhunter would win the majority but it wouldn't be easy.

in an all out fight Surfer would beat him a million different ways.

#20 Posted by TheBournePoster (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Martian Manhunter could take this through TP.

Online