• 153 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
#1 Edited by XiiX (8750 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by dondave (38581 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Silver Surfer

#3 Posted by bj365 (38 posts) - - Show Bio

are you crazy mars all the way

#4 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

silver surfer stomps hard

#5 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? Bloodlusted Silver Surfer. What exactly are you expecting Martian Manhunter to do here?

#6 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5139 posts) - - Show Bio

SS handily

#7 Posted by Malevolent1 (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer takes this. He's faster and has as many powers, if not more.

#9 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

SS 7/10. Probably more. Do not too much about Martian Manhunter, but I know his powers and that he isn't powerful enough. Might be a cool fight, though.

#10 Posted by God_Spawn (38114 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#11 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

SS.

#12 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

The only problem I see here for SS in intangibility. However, that's a pretty major problem. In my brief research, I haven't come across any examples of Surfer defeating an intangible opponent. If he can't, then it comes down to telepathy. And J'onn dominates in telepathy feats.

#13 Posted by GhostRider2 (3390 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: don't be so sure about telepathy i don't think is going to work.

Online
#14 Posted by dondave (38581 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire:Silver Surfer can become intangible as well, so maybe intangibility cancels intangibility

#15 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2 said:

@Esquire: don't be so sure about telepathy i don't think is going to work.

The only reason I can think of that it wouldn't is Surfer's off-hand comment that he's "unbeatable" or somesuch on the Astral Plane. However, Surfer uses hyperbole a lot and if he was truly unbeatable, you'd think he'd use the astral plane more than, like, twice. Also, it seemed to me that he was more referring to the Plane being the source of the power cosmic, which is odd. Other than that, I don't see any reason for J'onn's telepathy not to work. He's entered the Spectre's mind multiple times, so I don't think Surfer would be out of his league.

@dondave said:

@Esquire:Silver Surfer can become intangible as well, so maybe intangibility cancels intangibility

Really? I guess it does say that on his CV page. I've never seen him do it, but I'm no Surfer expert.

#16 Posted by Killemall (18639 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

The only problem I see here for SS in intangibility. However, that's a pretty major problem. In my brief research, I haven't come across any examples of Surfer defeating an intangible opponent. If he can't, then it comes down to telepathy. And J'onn dominates in telepathy feats.

while i do not recall Surfer beating any intangible oppoent, and i believe till November 2011 i have read every surfer issue, he is an extremely powerful matter manipulator. Intangible or not, matter manipulation might work on him. Or he can try opening up a singularity, that might work as well.

They have comparable speed, telepathy Surfer cant beat Martian Manhunter.

As per Astral Plane feat, here's the relevant scan from In Thy Name, Issue 3, Page 11

Lets see what he actually says "Spare your energy, you could leach me dry with ease out there but this plane is the source of the power cosmic you cant hurt me here", doesnt really translate to telepathy dont work on me at all, or i am unbeatable in astral plane. Also given the fact that while Surfer has at times fought off telepaths, telepathy has consistently worked on him. Aliens called "Others" one shotted him with a TP blast, Supernalia mindcontrolled him using celestial mindwave, Hebe made him see his girlfriend in place of Sersi, Psychoman has had no problem affecting him with his psyco powers twice, Wrathqueen was able to show him various telepathic images against Surfer's wishes before he physically disconnected by moving away. In light of what has happened to him consistently, saying he is immune to TP seems odd.

I would really give Martian Manhunter a much better odds then Silver Surfer, anyday.

#17 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Wow, that's a lot more detail than I could have given. Thanks! Do you know of any instances Surfer himself has gone intangible? His CV page says he can, but I've never seen it. Also, I was doing some research on Surfer and someone said that he's been able to hit an intangible Vision with an energy blast. However, I couldn't find an issue reference or anything. Do you remember this?

As far as molecule manipulation, that would probably work, especially if J'onn is just altering his density.

#18 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

SS Annihilates MM 10/10

#19 Posted by Killemall (18639 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: Surfer , to the best of my knoweledge, hasnt gone outright intangible. We have seen him phase through solid object quite often, i generally chuck that under phasing as opposed to outright intangibility.

And Silver Surfer vs Vision takes place in Avengers Volume 1, 116 (Avengers vs Defenders story arc), i cant seem to find my Avengers collection let me get back to you on that by next week.

#20 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Esquire: Surfer , to the best of my knoweledge, hasnt gone outright intangible. We have seen him phase through solid object quite often, i generally chuck that under phasing as opposed to outright intangibility.

And Silver Surfer vs Vision takes place in Avengers Volume 1, 116 (Avengers vs Defenders story arc), i cant seem to find my Avengers collection let me get back to you on that by next week.

Thank you, sir! Very educational. Don't hurry on my behalf, it's just something I've been wondering about.

#21 Posted by Quartermaim (617 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Do you have any scans of Surfer resisting Mental Attacks? I'm not saying Martian winds here but I feels that is his best chance of beating Surfer.

#22 Posted by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer in a stomp, it isn't really fair.

#23 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

Two of some of my favorite heroes, hard battle could go either way

#24 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@XImpossibruX: How so sir?

#25 Posted by SlimJ87D (10366 posts) - - Show Bio

@Quartermaim said:

@Killemall: Do you have any scans of Surfer resisting Mental Attacks? I'm not saying Martian winds here but I feels that is his best chance of beating Surfer.

Moon Dragon with Mind Gem?

#26 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: I remember Killemall debunked this to paraphrase Moondragon's telepathy laser thing rays suck and even Thor resisted once, so its not that big of a feat.

#27 Posted by Quartermaim (617 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: Thank you for the scan

#28 Edited by SlimJ87D (10366 posts) - - Show Bio

@SHARKBEARAGATOR said:

@SlimJ87D: I remember Killemall debunked this to paraphrase Moondragon's telepathy laser thing rays suck and even Thor resisted once, so its not that big of a feat.

I don't know much about it, but did Thor resist the Mind Gem as well? Also, it's not like MM's telepathy hasn't failed before. Along with that, I remember Silver Surfer being a pretty good telepath himself or at least can communicate through it and show people the power of cosmic.

#29 Posted by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer traveled a light year in seconds.

#30 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: From what I've heard MoonDragon's TP beams are lackluster and do not get the jon done as good as her regular telepathy does. She has manged to control Thor with regular TP but not a TP beam.

#31 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@XImpossibruX: Travel Speed not reaction speed.

#32 Posted by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

@SHARKBEARAGATOR said:

@XImpossibruX: Travel Speed not reaction speed.

Doesn't matter, Martian Manhunter getting punched from Surfer going at roughly 5,878,630,000,000 miles per second.

MM couldn't and will never react to something that fast, and the force gained by the punch would 1 shot him.

He was literally going so fast, that someone with infinitey Gauntlet was surprised by his speed.

#33 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@XImpossibruX: Whats to say they start that far apart. I would assume the battle takes place in a closed off or restricted field

#34 Posted by Malevolent1 (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

@SHARKBEARAGATOR said:

@XImpossibruX: Travel Speed not reaction speed.

Sometimes this is right. Sometimes this is wrong. Thor, for example, is shown to travel 3x the speed of light. But his reaction speed is indeed far less. His means of propulsion is Mjolnir.

Silver Surfer and his board have been stated several times on panel to be one and the same. Aside from the Runner, only Wally West seems on par with the Surfer in terms of raw speed, not just exceeding the light barrier, but exceeding the "time travel barrier". As one very prominent, well respected Viner said to another on these very boards:

but if he can move around

and talk in a fraction of a nanosecond, it seems clear to me that he'd also be

able to punch and kick and so on in a fraction of a nanosecond, since he's

shown to be able to operate within that frame.

That was a comment regarding Superman. Does that same logic not apply to any other character who has shown they can move around and talk at speeds great enough to travel time?

Silver Surfer is well beyond Martian Manhunter in terms of speed. Surfer blitzes J'onn before he has a chance to even BEGIN reacting. TP and the ability to resist is only a secondary cosideration here.

#35 Posted by XImpossibruX (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

@SHARKBEARAGATOR said:

@XImpossibruX: Whats to say they start that far apart. I would assume the battle takes place in a closed off or restricted field

He flies outward at thousands of times FTL, then comes back to punch thousands of times FTL.

Martian Manhunter wouldn't even be able to get out a thought, easily speed blitzed.

#36 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

SS ftw

#37 Posted by dondave (38581 posts) - - Show Bio

@XImpossibruX: Martian Manhunter can carry out a conversationin within a second.They were moving so fast Orion, Barda, Kyle Rayner and Steel were standing stil

#38 Posted by Spartan101 (2410 posts) - - Show Bio

ss got it won,9/10

#39 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear to all the gods that be, Surfer threads can rival Thor threads for the amount of sheer inaccuracies surrounding the arguments presented in his favor. I sometimes wonder if Killemall is the only person on the battle forum who has actually read most of the character's publication history and knows what he's talking about. Any way:

@SlimJ87D said:

@Quartermaim said:

@Killemall: Do you have any scans of Surfer resisting Mental Attacks? I'm not saying Martian winds here but I feels that is his best chance of beating Surfer.

Moon Dragon with Mind Gem?

The thing no one mentions while claiming Thor and Surfer resisted the Mind Gem is that Moondragon had a nerfed down version of the Gem. Adam Warlock didn't trust her to use it responsibly when he formed his Infinity Watch and so he constructed multiple safeguards into the Gem that would restrict Moondragon's ability to use it to anywhere near its full potential. While in possession of the Mind Gem, Moondragon couldn't read the mind of even Pip unless Warlock permitted her to, nor could she read Thanos' mind (although the Titan's explanation for that was "Of course not. I am Thanos.") If Moondragon had full use of the Mind Gem, there'd really be nothing that Surfer could do to stop her from shutting his mind down if she felt like it. And what is Surfer actually resisting in those scans? All Moondragon does is knock him down with a blast, there's no follow-up of any kind. The blast could well have been telekinetic instead of telepathic, seeing as that was the first ability Moondragon noted had been boosted by the Mind Gem when she received it in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #2. Considering Moondragon at a much later point was contracted by Thanos to help lay a mental trap for Galactus himself that partially succeeded, how likely do you think it is that someone with a miniscule fraction of Galactus' power could resist an amped version of the same telepath?

@XImpossibruX said:

Surfer traveled a light year in seconds.

Travel speed. For that matter J'onn has traveled "innumerable light years" (that's a direct quote from the issue) in a few days, Superman has traveled across galaxies in seconds and Gladiator has flown a hundred times faster than light and that's never been a consideration in any of their combat speeds. And Surfer can no longer fly faster than light without hyperspace in modern continuity.

He was literally going so fast, that someone with infinitey Gauntlet was surprised by his speed.

You're aware that Thanos has moderately enhanced speed at best, right? And that he was only using the Power Gem in those scans, having cut himself off from all the other Gems to make it a somewhat fair fight? And that the Power Gem does nothing for the user's speed at all?

Come on. Later in the same story, Nebula steals the Infinity Gauntlet from right underneath Thanos' nose after he defeated Eternity. Nebula is not even as fast as Captain America. I can understand a claim like this if Thanos was actively using the Time Gem or Space Gem when Surfer made his move, but he wasn't. More recently in Fantastic Four #611, Doom had the Infinity Gauntlet and an army of fodder that he himself created swarmed him and stole it off his fingers as he struggled. Does that mean those guys were all faster-than-light gods of speed?

@Malevolent1 said:

@SHARKBEARAGATOR said:

@XImpossibruX: Travel Speed not reaction speed.

Sometimes this is right. Sometimes this is wrong. Thor, for example, is shown to travel 3x the speed of light. But his reaction speed is indeed far less. His means of propulsion is Mjolnir.

Silver Surfer and his board have been stated several times on panel to be one and the same. Aside from the Runner, only Wally West seems on par with the Surfer in terms of raw speed, not just exceeding the light barrier, but exceeding the "time travel barrier". As one very prominent, well respected Viner said to another on these very boards:

but if he can move around

and talk in a fraction of a nanosecond, it seems clear to me that he'd also be

able to punch and kick and so on in a fraction of a nanosecond, since he's

shown to be able to operate within that frame.

That was a comment regarding Superman. Does that same logic not apply to any other character who has shown they can move around and talk at speeds great enough to travel time?

Silver Surfer is well beyond Martian Manhunter in terms of speed. Surfer blitzes J'onn before he has a chance to even BEGIN reacting. TP and the ability to resist is only a secondary cosideration here.

Surfer's board is a construct created via the Power Cosmic. It's no different from the constructs a Green Lantern creates in terms of its genesis. Claiming that they are "one and the same" is a bit ridiculous seeing as Surfer's board has been destroyed on multiple occasions (Terrax, Firelord, Morg, Durok and Cable have all done it) and Surfer didn't exactly explode as a result. For that matter Doom once stole Surfer's board along with the Power Cosmic and was able to use it while Surfer himself was powerless. You'd think that if the board and the herald were one and the same, the board would be non-functional once the herald was stripped of his power, but that hardly happened. Doom used an object that is supposedly an extension of the Surfer because he had the Power Cosmic, and that alone should suffice as an example of the board being a construct rather an actual extension of a physical being. I view statements like "this board is a part of me" in much the same vein as Thor's declarations that Mjolnir is "like my right hand" ---- it's a phrase used to stress the relationship between the character and their signature device, but I highly doubt it's meant to be taken literally. Surfer's mode of flight speed is identical to Thor's in almost every aspect. Surfer has stated himself that he cannot fly without his board, and can only propel himself around by directing blasts of energy at the ground beneath him, and he's vastly slower while doing that.

His board is controlled mentally, if he tells it to fly at a certain speed, it will. He does not personally need to be that fast. Mjolnir operates in precisely the same way. Thor cannot fly at the speed of light by himself, but he can get pulled along by it when he commands it to go at that speed. In the Durok vs Surfer fight that's quoted as an example of Surfer supposedly fighting at trans-time speeds, Surfer's not moving at all. He's being held by Durok's headlock and he himself states that his board is moving faster and faster upon his mental command. I have no idea why this is held as an example of combat speed from Surfer. He's standing still while the board is doing all the work for him. I used that line of reasoning with Superman and it applies in Superman's case but not Surfer's because Superman doesn't need an external object to move that fast. You quote Flash as an example of trans-time combat speeds, but Flash doesn't need an external object either. When Flash moves faster than time, he's running i.e moving his arms and legs up and down at those speeds. So if he can move his arms and legs up and down, we know he can also punch and kick because punching and kicking are just variations on moving your arms and legs up and down. Same goes for Superman, he's walked around on his own two legs within a fraction of a nanosecond. Surfer's not doing anything of the sort. He's not moving his limbs in any way, so on what basis do you conclude that Surfer can punch and kick at those speeds? When has he actually done anything like that? For that matter, when has Surfer ever displayed the ability to move his limbs at rapid combat speeds anyway? The only blitzing I've ever seen Surfer perform involves crashing into ship, asteroids and various other space paraphernalia at high speeds. Do you have any examples of Surfer moving his limbs at high speeds like Superman does below, rather than him simply colliding with something at the speed of light on his board?

I made that assumption about Superman because we know he can move his limbs at the same speed at which he can process his thoughts; he's done it many, many, many times. Surfer? Not so much. All of his blitzing is mostly a light speed game of bumper cars. And that aside, excluding the fact that Surfer cannot fly faster than light without hyperspace in modern continuity, how exactly is flying so fast he time travels going to help him, or Flash for that matter? Whenever they do that they automatically BFR themselves into another time period. It's a useless tactic. Surfer's legitimate combat reactions are in the less-than-a-nanosecond range. Those are the only actual speeds he's displayed the ability to react at in combat without tossing himself into the future. I understand why people say Surfer beats Superman, and I agree that he absolutely does; but I've never understood why people think it's because of Surfer's speed advantage. He holds no reaction speed advantage over Superman. At best they're even on that count.

Regardless, a bloodlusted Surfer wins and probably handily at that. But seriously, people need to stop making him the new Thor.

Moderator Online
#40 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer

#41 Posted by God_Spawn (38114 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane:

And Surfer can no longer fly faster than light without hyperspace in modern continuity.

When did this happen? I've dipped in and out of Surfer over the past few years so maybe I missed something or completely overlooked in an issue?

Moderator
#42 Posted by Kratesis (4266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Its rare that I change my mind, or greatly alter my perceptions of a character from reading one post, in one thread. This is one of those times though, excellent post.

#43 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@CitizenBane:

And Surfer can no longer fly faster than light without hyperspace in modern continuity.

When did this happen? I've dipped in and out of Surfer over the past few years so maybe I missed something or completely overlooked in an issue?

He used to be able to fly faster than light without any other influence up until the early 80's or thereabouts. After that Marvel introduced the concept of hyperspace into their continuity, so people like Surfer, Quasar, Nova and so on all stopped physically flying faster than light and instead started accessing hyperspace to travel that fast. Technically there's nothing that says Surfer can't do it without hyperspace (it wasn't written out or anything), but it's just become Marvel policy to have characters move faster than light via hyperspace alone now more often than not (as an example, Nova's last volume was filled with instances of him using stargates to travel between galaxies). There are some odd variations here and there, but usually Surfer does it too. Hyperspace became his main mode of FTL travel in the 90's, the Infinity Gauntlet example that's often quoted is from a few years before that. In Silver Surfer #109, published in 1995, Surfer had to fly faster than light to help Galactus fight off Tyrant. He did it via hyperspace:

You can see Surfer himself state that they're entering warp speeds right before they pass into hyperspace. Then again in Silver Surfer #121, where he crashes out of hyperspace at multiple light speeds:

At the beginning of the volume, Surfer was just flying faster than light as and when he felt like it without hyperspace. Near the end of that volume, Surfer was using hyperspace almost exclusively. In the most recent appearances I can think of like Nova #15, Surfer and Nova are BFR'd 5 light years away by Galactus and Surfer uses hyperspace to return to his master's side. It was just something that was slowly phased out, I guess.

Moderator Online
#44 Posted by God_Spawn (38114 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: While the scans and instances you mentioned ring a bell and look familiar I never really paid attention to that detail. I guess it's my fault on that end but thanks for the info regardless.

Moderator
#45 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

@spawn_123 said:

Silver Surfer

this

#46 Posted by Killemall (18639 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: I thought you would also bring up Durok being the slowest brute in marvel there is. Marvel bio puts his speed at 2, which is by far the slowest i have seen. The only person he can claim to be faster than would be the likes of Aunt May who scored a 1. Guys like Hulk, Captain America, Punisher , Deadpool have better speed than Duroc. Saying Surfer has fighting translight speed against Durok when we can see Durok himself reacting to surfer sounds odd at best. Quite certain that was not the intention.

#47 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Lol, I knew Durok was a slow brick but I didn't think he was that slow. Then again, if Durok had superspeed he wouldn't be a Thor villain :P

Moderator Online
#48 Posted by Bo88gdan (4416 posts) - - Show Bio

In my mother language Силвер Сурфер би пребио Мартиана као вола у купусу !

#49 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bo88gdan said:

In my mother language Силвер Сурфер би пребио Мартиана као вола у купусу !

"Silver Surfer would beat Martian as an ox in cabbage"?

Moderator Online
#50 Posted by Bo88gdan (4416 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Yes :D