Silver Surfer vs Martian Manhunter

ss power COSMIC END OF STORY

Draw(slight edge towards Martian Manhunter)

surfer stomp.

SS easy.

@eternal_chaos: you are 100% correct, he is immune to telepathy and he can control molecules

Surfer isn't immune to telepathy and he doesn't manipulate molecules during combat.

@thecerealkillz: He has. For example scattering the atoms of a tiger/human aggressor whilst tussling with it.

Omniscience.

@omniscience:

Oh, so something that he's done once against one person at one point? That's not gonna happen in almost every instance.

Pretty sure I already commented, but I got Silver Surfer.

@thecerealkillz: there are plenty of other examples where he uses atomic manipulation. For instance, transmuting opponents is a more common rather than instant vaporisation.

Omniscience.

ss has this

@thecerealkillz: I agree, this isn't as lopsided as some think. MMH has very nice telepathic feats I mean he got into the Spectre's mind and has mind wiped reality warpers in New 52 so I definitely think he has a good chance against SS.

Of course this is spite. Spite in favor of J'onn. What the hell will Surfer do? Try to attack his molecules, when J'onn has extensive control over his own body structure and shape? Surfer fanboys need to read up on the Martian. J'onn can own Supes and Supes rapes Surfer hard.

Didn't Surfer, during the first Annihilators storyline, telepathically project a single thought into the minds of the inhabitants of an entire planet? And doesn't his power come from the Astral Plane itself.

What has MM done to suggest he is the better telepath? Just asking.

Yes and thats by far Surfer's best feat, although he does have at least one another planetary telepathic feat that i know off head.

Martin Manhunter has used scanned the mind of everyone on the planet twice without problem, mentally force himself inside Spectre mind, blocked telepathy from beyond planetary telepaths and so on.

I could try and post scans if you want, but CitizenBane has an extremely through Martian Manhunter respect thread, including all his appearence, and nearly 2/3 of the scans there are from comics i havent read at all, so its way way way more detailed than anything i can say.

Telepathy being linked from Astral Plane should have no bearing, TP has worked on Surfer multiple times i could put up scans, its gone from Loki being able to TP, The Others being able to one shot him with telepathy, Goddess being able to mindcontrol him initially, Hebe being able to show him illusion etc etc.

The statement most often used for Surfer supposedly immunity from telepathy is from Silver Surfer: In Thy Name and i still maintain thats misrepresented because he fights this organ pirate ghost who can leech people energy. He takes him to astral plane and says you may be able to leech me dry out there but astral plane is the source of my power you cant harm me here.

I think that should reasonably be interpreted as you cant drain me here in astral plane because this is the source of my power, rather than you know, its astral plane i cant be harmed at all..

@darkazrael999: Martian Manhunter has done that with the entire planet Earth as well. He's been able to read the minds of everyone on Earth at the same time.

@hardcorefakes:

he don't have to attack his molecules he attacks on the subatomic level manhunter is helpless against that.

Vortex breath could even kill Savage hulk

SS easily.

Bump... I was going to do something like this and I have read much of this. Did anyone come to a conclusion on who wins this fight??

surfer easily his telepathy is formidable and he is faster more durable and could freeze manunter in time devolve him atomitize him the list goes on.

Probably Norrin, but dudes, it isn't a stomp at all.

@monsterstomp: I dont think a stomp either. MM is nearly Superman power level then im sure Norrin wins but not until MM gives em hell.

Martian Manhunter makes him fly in to the sun or makes Galactus eat him.

Could go either way

So we got Flash always wins because of IMP punches or speed steal, Silver Surfer because black holes via black holes in head, and now Martian Manhunter via telepathy. Interesting...this Vine is very interesting...

@New_World_Order To be fair Telepathy is something Martian Manhunter uses extensively

Silver Surfer

True.

Could go either way

Exactly. It's more or less his main method of attack right behind punching somebody.

@xiix: but surfer has telepathy as well he uses it less but he has probed entire planets effortlessy and has reached across galaxies with ease manhunter has more and better feats than these but he strains way more than surfer does i think if surfer could hang in telepathy as far as raw power and he beats him in everything else except strength and he can increase his strength to higher levels sufer beats him countless times he sees past present and future all at once he would see any effort manhunter tries and puts a stop to it and manunter's telepathy is his only shot at victory and that would take time to get through surfers mental defenses and surfer could put him down several non lethal ways he could devolve him freeze him in time slow down his metabolism turn him to stone countless ways and those are just the non lethal ways if surfer gets mad he could kill him even more ways.

Martian

J'onn

MM

J'onn

J'onn has fast reaction speeds:

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However, no clear indicators are given of exactly how fast above. By his own admission, J'onn is slower than Superman:

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Based on the scans above, I would say J'onn reacts at a large fraction of the speed of light. In my opinion, that makes him very fast.

But nothing demonstrates to me that he is FTL. The Surfer, has FTL reaction feats aplenty:

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EDIT: this scan is not proof of FTL speed, but is a clear indicator, that from the get go, Surfer was painted a fast character by Stan Lee.

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Only a few issues later, Surfer crosses the light speed barrier to travel time to future earth, then to future Zenn-La, then to neighboring galaxy to fight the Overlord, back in time to a point before Overlord's origin then back to present day earth. What is extraordinary about the feat is how quickly he transitions from 3 dimensional space to 4th dimensional space and back again in an instant:

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Above, from Guardians of the Galaxy 60, Surfer intercepts Starhawk who was away at three times the speed of light. One of the Surfer's more humble speed feats, as well as the scans that follow from Cosmic Powers Unlimited 3 where he blitzes a ship at light speed.

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Of course, above is the Gauntlet grab. Below, Surfer takes an assignment from Galactus rescue Nova from a Skrull stronghold. The problem is he has to bust through the dome (not a big deal) and through two thick vibranium walls, encoded to explode upon breach and blow the place. Additionally, he doesn't know where Frankie is...he has to find her. The scan makes it clear he busted through the walls and had already located her before the signal arrived:

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His planet searching feat:

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There are others. Got to hit a BBQ. I will address comparisons of durability, energy projection, phasing, telepathy a little later. But to begin, the Surfer is faster in terms of reaction speed.

@gothambane42: wtf? Why would Galactus listen to Martian Manhunter and kill his own herald? This doesn't make any sense...

Silver Surfer

finally! people coming to their senses. (or at least the ones after me)

@captnmcdeadpool: those scans only prove surfer's travel speed. he's very fast but this isn't a race though.

That's the first time I've ever heard that. Perhaps the problem lies in how you evaluate what a reaction feat is. Surfer is always on his board my friend. And because he is always on his board doesn't make it just a travel feat. For example, the planet searching feat. The population of earth when that feat occurred was over 5 billion. Randomly scattered all over the earth. He would have to have positioned himself in every conceivable way just to see the faces of everyone on earth. Obviously, this would not allow for travelling in just a straight line.

Similar with with rescuing Nova. Could he see where she was before he busted through both walls of vibranium? Of course not. And we're talking about outracing the signal of Skrull technology, encoded to detonate once the walls were breached. The Gauntlet Grab clearly shows the Surfer taking a swipe at the Gauntlet...not just zipping by him. If it were only a travel feat, he would've been incapable of reacting at those speeds.

You are quite mistaken.

MMH can't hope to take on Surfer.

@captnmcdeadpool: I see your point but how does that put MMH down?

@ohitsthatguy: how so?

@captnmcdeadpool: how much faster? how exactly does that translate to jonn being slow when he's in similar league to supes and flash. also reaction does not equal reflexes. his mind may be fast but that doesn't mean he'll use this attacks just as fast.

..I think this is a very good match up, between theoretically the two most all round powerful heroes in the mainstream Marvel and DC universes. I know the Surfer is v fast, but what is his combat speed like?

@gothambane42 While I agree Martian Manhunter wins here, there's no need to insult other users.