@difficlus: Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet.
" @difficlus: Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet. "
i know what you're saying but he has done things like Outracing entropy which puts him in flash's league. technically both can go as fast as they want. SS has crossed galaxy clusters in seconds, i think flash has done the same (or could if he had a meduim to run on). i wouldn't say Flash is faster...both have the same high level feat which is Outracing the universe, scanning a million minds in a picosecond pales to outracing a universe which both have done...
" @difficlus: Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet. "
i know what you're saying but he has done things like Outracing entropy which puts him in flash's league. technically both can go as fast as they want. SS has crossed galaxy clusters in seconds, i think flash has done the same (or could if he had a meduim to run on). i wouldn't say Flash is faster...both have the same high level feat which is Outracing the universe, scanning a million minds in a picosecond pales to outracing a universe which both have done... "
1. I recall that taking place in hyperspace, where Gladiator has gone 100x the speed of light before (basically not plausible). 2. The fastest I've ever seen Surfer react was in a nanosecond, which Flash has trumped on many occasions.
Both are pretty close in terms of speed (I think Flash's speed is greater though) but in terms of power levels SS trumps Flash easily. Flash would be berating SS with punches and would be able to dodge most of SS' attacks but at some point even he's going to falter even with greater speed and reaction speed he's not going to stay away from SS' attacks forever. All of the Flash's attacks wouldn't really be able to stop SS so SS can't be stopped by Flash but Flash can certainly be stopped by SS.
" @difficlus: Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet. "
i know what you're saying but he has done things like Outracing entropy which puts him in flash's league. technically both can go as fast as they want. SS has crossed galaxy clusters in seconds, i think flash has done the same (or could if he had a meduim to run on). i wouldn't say Flash is faster...both have the same high level feat which is Outracing the universe, scanning a million minds in a picosecond pales to outracing a universe which both have done... "
1. I recall that taking place in hyperspace, where Gladiator has gone 100x the speed of light before (basically not plausible). 2. The fastest I've ever seen Surfer react was in a nanosecond, which Flash has trumped on many occasions. "
This is true.
There's a distinct difference between running/movement speed and reaction speed.
In a fight, reaction speed is arguably more important than movement speed, especially if two people have almost the same moving speed - what you seem to be arguing about Flash and the Silver Surfer.
" @difficlus:Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet. "
I recall Surfer scanning the entire Earth for a single person before someone could even finish their sentence.
" @difficlus: Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet. "
i know what you're saying but he has done things like Outracing entropy which puts him in flash's league. technically both can go as fast as they want. SS has crossed galaxy clusters in seconds, i think flash has done the same (or could if he had a meduim to run on). i wouldn't say Flash is faster...both have the same high level feat which is Outracing the universe, scanning a million minds in a picosecond pales to outracing a universe which both have done... "
1. I recall that taking place in hyperspace, where Gladiator has gone 100x the speed of light before (basically not plausible). 2. The fastest I've ever seen Surfer react was in a nanosecond, which Flash has trumped on many occasions. "
lol no...1. OK... it doesn't mean he didn't do it 2. No...what i referred to was speed not reaction time, yes i know FLash trumps SS in reaction time but SS does have his cosmic awareness which will help him determine where flash is in anycase.
" @difficlus: his cosmic awareness is debatable it is not perfect at all "
how is it not perfect? It has helped him know an opponents weakness and know where an opponent was teleporting to while in a battle, find people located in a ship and sense people incomign light years away...
@difficlus: yes but it even also show where he did not know stuff an it had to come to him after a while or the fact that somebody had to tell him or somebody react an did something before him like in thanos imperative series why did quasar had to be the 1 to save from the blast ?
" @difficlus: yes but it even also show where he did not know stuff an it had to come to him after a while or the fact that somebody had to tell him or somebody react an did something before him like in thanos imperative series why did quasar had to be the 1 to save from the blast ? "
ok sometimes the plot disallows certain people from doing things that might otherwise quickly end a situation. for example SS has been tricked by the Skrulls before. Another example is Siege where Thor should have at least been able to handle Sentry...
" Surfer 7/10. For the record, Surfer is faster in travel speed. In operational speed and reaction time, Flash is faster. Note: I find it interesting that Morpheus thinks this could go either way. "
How would SS hold against a speed force dump? could he get out or prehaps even find a way to manipulate it. what do you think?
" Surfer 7/10. For the record, Surfer is faster in travel speed. In operational speed and reaction time, Flash is faster. Note: I find it interesting that Morpheus thinks this could go either way. "
How would SS hold against a speed force dump? could he get out or prehaps even find a way to manipulate it. what do you think? "
Not really sure what would happen to Surfer in the Speed Force to be honest, which would affect my standing on that. I doubt he could escape, but one, Wally is unlikely to do that in the first place and two, even if he tried, I doubt Surfer would ever give him the opportunity to run him into the Speed Force.
" Surfer 7/10. For the record, Surfer is faster in travel speed. In operational speed and reaction time, Flash is faster. Note: I find it interesting that Morpheus thinks this could go either way. "
How would SS hold against a speed force dump? could he get out or prehaps even find a way to manipulate it. what do you think? "
Not really sure what would happen to Surfer in the Speed Force to be honest, which would affect my standing on that. I doubt he could escape, but one, Wally is unlikely to do that in the first place and two, even if he tried, I doubt Surfer would ever give him the opportunity to run him into the Speed Force. "
so what affects your decision that flash would win? EDIT: sorry what affect your decision for wally to get 3/10? been modest?
" @difficlus:Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet. "
I recall Surfer scanning the entire Earth for a single person before someone could even finish their sentence. "
That was with Doctor Strange, the thing here is that Surfer left before Strange even started speaking. So depending on the amount of time between Surfer leaving and Strange starting his sentence is inknown. If Surfer left after Strange started speaking and came back before he finished, then the feat would of been impressive, but that wasn't the case.
" Surfer 7/10. For the record, Surfer is faster in travel speed. In operational speed and reaction time, Flash is faster. Note: I find it interesting that Morpheus thinks this could go either way. "
How would SS hold against a speed force dump? could he get out or prehaps even find a way to manipulate it. what do you think? "
Not really sure what would happen to Surfer in the Speed Force to be honest, which would affect my standing on that. I doubt he could escape, but one, Wally is unlikely to do that in the first place and two, even if he tried, I doubt Surfer would ever give him the opportunity to run him into the Speed Force. "
so what affects your decision that flash would win? EDIT: sorry what affect your decision for wally to get 3/10? been modest? "
The fact that Wally (I assume this is Wally, anyway) has greater operational speed. If he utilized his abilities properly, he could IMP Surfer repeatedly until he wins. Surfer can withstand blows, but he can only take so many Krytponian+ level blows before giving out.
Regardless, since I doubt Flash would use his abilities that way, Surfer should 7-8/10
" @difficlus: Call me when Surfer can scan close to a million people at the same time in less than a picosecond and take on two different opponents at the same time on opposite ends of the planet. "
i know what you're saying but he has done things like Outracing entropy which puts him in flash's league. technically both can go as fast as they want. SS has crossed galaxy clusters in seconds, i think flash has done the same (or could if he had a meduim to run on). i wouldn't say Flash is faster...both have the same high level feat which is Outracing the universe, scanning a million minds in a picosecond pales to outracing a universe which both have done... "
1. I recall that taking place in hyperspace, where Gladiator has gone 100x the speed of light before (basically not plausible). 2. The fastest I've ever seen Surfer react was in a nanosecond, which Flash has trumped on many occasions. "
lol no...1. OK... it doesn't mean he didn't do it 2. No...what i referred to was speed not reaction time, yes i know FLash trumps SS in reaction time but SS does have his cosmic awareness which will help him determine where flash is in anycase. "
How exactly would Cosmic Awareness allow the Silver Surfer to dodge one of Flash punches, if he can't percieve it fast enough to dodge it?
" Surfer 7/10. For the record, Surfer is faster in travel speed. In operational speed and reaction time, Flash is faster. Note: I find it interesting that Morpheus thinks this could go either way. "
How would SS hold against a speed force dump? could he get out or prehaps even find a way to manipulate it. what do you think? "
Not really sure what would happen to Surfer in the Speed Force to be honest, which would affect my standing on that. I doubt he could escape, but one, Wally is unlikely to do that in the first place and two, even if he tried, I doubt Surfer would ever give him the opportunity to run him into the Speed Force. "
so what affects your decision that flash would win? EDIT: sorry what affect your decision for wally to get 3/10? been modest? "
The fact that Wally (I assume this is Wally, anyway) has greater operational speed. If he utilized his abilities properly, he could IMP Surfer repeatedly until he wins. Surfer can withstand blows, but he can only take so many Krytponian+ level blows before giving out. Regardless, since I doubt Flash would use his abilities that way, Surfer should 7-8/10 "
then what about his cosmic awareness, he has used it to track oppnonets before or predict their moves. Ok the reason i may give SS 9/10 is because unless Wally is very smart and goes full out and IMP's SS (the chances of that is unlikely as he won't know the level SS is on) he could win. However SS been modest sees Wally as a modest speedster and goes all Jack of Hearts on him (causes him intense pain) or so on. If wally survives that he may push the limits and start giving SS a hard time, at this point SS might offload his full arsenal and gives Wally his worth (using his cosmic awareness to know about his powers etc) if wally somehow survives that he goes full on IMP speed blitz on SS at which point he can win. He can win (and only can) because it would depend how he decides to attack. Like you said if he goes IMP SS totals after a few hundred blows assuming the cosmic awareness becomes of no use to alert him of such an incoming attack for him to become intangible(which i somehow doubt it will). If he goes speed steal SS just goes intangible or uses non-physical attacks (which he has tons off...) at the point the battle goes to SS. if Wally uses speed force dump it probably wouldn't work and it again goes to SS. However as you can see the likely hood of wally west survivng long enough in the battle to go full out is slim hence a 9/10 if the battle plays out like this. I doubt it will so 10/10..
@ThanosIsMad
said:
" Infinite Mass Punch is kind of worthless on an opponent who can go faster than light. IMP requires you to move at 99% of the speed of light. Anything faster than that will negate the acquisition of infinite mass. Both Surfer and Flash can go FTL, therefore Surfer would just dodge any IMP's by simply going faster than light. Correct me if 'm wrong, but I don't think it's been shown that Flash can hit like he can utilizing IMP by going FTL. "
idk...good point though. If that is true SS just takes it all. But i think he can...
@Jezer said:
" @difficlus said:
"
How exactly would Cosmic Awareness allow the Silver Surfer to dodge one of Flash punches, if he can't percieve it fast enough to dodge it? "
predict an opponents next move or track objects moving around even if he doesn't have the reflexes to tag them...
Infinite Mass Punch is kind of worthless on an opponent who can go faster than light. IMP requires you to move at 99% of the speed of light. Anything faster than that will negate the acquisition of infinite mass. Both Surfer and Flash can go FTL, therefore Surfer would just dodge any IMP's by simply going faster than light.
Correct me if 'm wrong, but I don't think it's been shown that Flash can hit like he can utilizing IMP by going FTL.
Surfer can move at Flashes speeds no problem. But reaction time Flash is better i guess cause people say he has picosecond. But Surfer is too durable for any of his attacks, even IMP. And Surfer has way more abilities, so he wins. IMO
@Thor's hammmer: If this is Wally going all out, it doesn't matter if hes fast as Wally. Wally would just Steal his speed and add it to his own. Then knock Surfer out. Wally's career is about being Faster than anyone and the fastest reaction time, what feats does Surfer have being faster than picoseconds?
" @Thor's hammmer: If this is Wally going all out, it doesn't matter if hes fast as Wally. Wally would just Steal his speed and add it to his own. Then knock Surfer out. Wally's career is about being Faster than anyone and the fastest reaction time, what feats does Surfer have being faster than picoseconds? "
The Surfer isn't easy to knock out. He was having Tenebrous essentially teleport infront of him and smashin the orbiting body he was on to pieces and was still able to get up and fly off in a desperate gamble pulling off one of his best feats to date.
" @Thor's hammmer: If this is Wally going all out, it doesn't matter if hes fast as Wally. Wally would just Steal his speed and add it to his own. Then knock Surfer out. Wally's career is about being Faster than anyone and the fastest reaction time, what feats does Surfer have being faster than picoseconds? "
The Surfer isn't easy to knock out. He was having Tenebrous essentially teleport infront of him and smashin the orbiting body he was on to pieces and was still able to get up and fly off in a desperate gamble pulling off one of his best feats to date. "
I agree Surfer is a beast, don't get me wrong he's a badass. It's just Wally has knocked out Mongul, Bart has knocked out Zoom, has Pimp Slapped Supes, KO'd a White Martian (just as durable as a kryptonian), pc Wally went toe to toe with the Spectre, current Wally has threatened the spectre (got what he needed), did a speed steal from Amazo who emulated the Flashes speed AND won, also does all this without going all out 100%
"I agree Surfer is a beast, don't get me wrong he's a badass. It's just Wally has knocked out Mongul, Bart has knocked out Zoom, has Pimp Slapped Supes, KO'd a White Martian (just as durable as a kryptonian), pc Wally went toe to toe with the Spectre, current Wally has threatened the spectre (got what he needed), did a speed steal from Amazo who emulated the Flashes speed AND won, also does all this without going all out 100% "
Mongul KO is a good feat. Not sure about the pimp smacking of Superman, never seen it.
Considering the kind of following Zoom has here, KOs against Zoom are due to PIS or CIS. White Martians have some low ends, like Batman taking on four of them at once. Him doing anything to the Spectre is certainly PIS. It's like if they have him threaten Galactus.
The reason people would still probably pick Norrin is the fact he could level the entire planet or just get out of reach employ some of his other various powers or even outright relie on intangibility.
@Supermanwithatan01: who pimp slapped supes, you mean zoom? white martians are as durable as martians which are just under kryptonians, pc wally doesnt matter, current wally i have never seen threaten spectre
i dont beleive silver surfer is durable enough to take 1000s of IMP instantly bty
" @Thor's hammmer: If this is Wally going all out, it doesn't matter if hes fast as Wally. Wally would just Steal his speed and add it to his own. Then knock Surfer out. Wally's career is about being Faster than anyone and the fastest reaction time, what feats does Surfer have being faster than picoseconds? "
The Surfer isn't easy to knock out. He was having Tenebrous essentially teleport infront of him and smashin the orbiting body he was on to pieces and was still able to get up and fly off in a desperate gamble pulling off one of his best feats to date. "
I agree Surfer is a beast, don't get me wrong he's a badass. It's just Wally has knocked out Mongul, Bart has knocked out Zoom, has Pimp Slapped Supes, KO'd a White Martian (just as durable as a kryptonian), pc Wally went toe to toe with the Spectre, current Wally has threatened the spectre (got what he needed), did a speed steal from Amazo who emulated the Flashes speed AND won, also does all this without going all out 100% "
You Seem to always Drastically Overestimate Flash. He's my favorite Superhero. But i know he cant win here.
1. When did he ever pimp slap superman. He had the help of Bart, and others to pull SBP in the Speedforce. BFR was their only option. 2. He had all the Magic from Everyone on earth, or somethin of the sort. Dont know all the story. For Spectre. Even that sounds like PIS 3. He didn't win against Amazo. He got his ass kicked , stole his speed, then Barely made it out of there So the others had a fighting chance. But him surviving was a big feat Nevertheless.
" Surfer can move at Flashes speeds no problem. But reaction time Flash is better i guess cause people say he has picosecond. But Surfer is too durable for any of his attacks, even IMP. And Surfer has way more abilities, so he wins. IMO "
Surfer can't move at Flashes speed in combat. Surfer isn't too durable for his attacks either. Flash CAN defeat Surfer but with his versatility I would give Surfer the win 6/10 times. But Flash will be a bigger threat to Surfer then any other character like Superman/Thor etc. Out of all the high tier characters.
@Thor's hammmer said:
" @Supermanwithatan01: Probably the fact that Surfer is arguably faster and has better reaction time. "
Right, except that neither of these is even remotely true
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