Silver Surfer and Thor vs. The Flash and Superman

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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Flash solos

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All_Mighty_Beyonder

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@dredeuced:

They are travelling the length of a conference room in a picosecond. That is outstandingly faster than the speed of light.

But frankly, if you really, really want to explain this logically then Wally can slow his fist down to lightspeed a millimeter before it hits surfer and it'd still get in under his reaction speed, regardless.

no they aren't traveling the length of the conference room in 1 picosecond, because as stated in panel, Dr Zoom had a lead gap of 1 nanosecond, and we can see from the scans that they were close to each other, that shows that they started with speed that will take more than 1 nanosecond to reach Thawne, and that contradict the 1 picosecond panel.

moreover even if Wally used IMP for only 1 millimeter, that will mean IMP took more than 33 picoseconds (because light travel 30 cm in 1 nanosecond) hence another contradiction.

Why does Wally need Femtosecond reaction to dodge Surfer? (Not that he doesn't have that, mind you). Are we just assuming that base thanos has femtosecond reactions? If we're stretching feats that way then I guess I can just go grab the nuclear explosion feat where Flash was running around an entire city and grabbing people in shorter intervals than attoseconds.

Thanos was using the power gem to its full extent, it improved all his physical abilities, strength, speed, durability, energy projection... that's why he was able to sense SS in the last moment, also note that none of the others were able to feel SS speed except Thanos. but saying that SS may have slowed down in the last meters is a fair point.

the nuclear explosion feat unfortunatly may be another contradictory and broken feat, because the writer says frankly and clearly that Flash was moving under light speed. the only explanation is that Flash was using time travel which won't require going FTL.

Wally can sense peoples' unique vibrations(This was relevant in the Chain Lightning arc, the Dark Flash arc, and others, as you'd know). On an uninhabited planet I imagine Thor and Surfer would be quite unique. I also assume the combatants are aware that they're fighting each other, not just dropped randomly and expected to figure out what's going on. Opposite sides of the world is just a straight line, after all. I agree that if you think Wally can't get to Surfer before Surfer can, I dunno, do whatever it is you posit he will do with his list of abilities, Wally would lose. But half the circumference of Jupiter isn't much of a jog for Wally, so Wally should have a reasonable shot of getting there.

I will honestly admit to having had forgot the jupiter stipulation. It kind of got lost in the muck of your usual Surfer vs Flash dealie. It was obviously intended to make speed blitz less of an issue. If you're trying to take Speed blitz out of the equation then Bloodlusted Surfer definitely wins.

i'm not trying to take speed blitz out of equation, i'm just pointing facts and rules of this fight and tried to have a nice debate, and i thank you for that. but i do agree that the high end feats of Wally compared to high end feats of SS, makes Wally with reaction time a lot faster than SS no comparison. so regardless of speed, the important part is how will Wally beat Surfer? that's the real question. and that's where i fail to comprehend guys who think Wally beats SS? just how exactly? no convincing answer.

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War_Ruin

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Superman and Wally. I actually think the New 52 Superman has a 50% percent chance of beating Surfer. Wally can certainly beat him. Superman also beats Thor in a difficult fight.

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War_Ruin

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#354  Edited By War_Ruin

@all_mighty_beyonder: The question you're really asking is How is superman and wally going to deal with Surfer? Since, this is New 52 Superman and Wally, I'll just use those feats of those versions.

Superman and Wally have this kind of advance ability called perception speed. Wally has seen light as if it was frozen. Superman has perceived a supernatural imagery light move in a odd way. Surfer has time travel, but it won't work because it takes time to accelerate. Plus, he has to deal with Supes and wally. You can have time traveling speed all you want. However, if you don't have perception speed, its not going to make a difference.

Superman cancels Surfer's intangibility with his ice breath (Yes, current supes has froze intangible beings.) Wally can vibrate through Surfer and damage him from there. current new 52 Clark has dent and punched organic steel. So, Clark's punches will affect the Surfer. Same with Wally. As for Thor, Wally can just vibrate through him and speed steal. Superman is, currently, stronger than Thor. He is alot faster than thor in both, traveling and perception speed. Superman can also survive and endure Surfer's black holes, as most people in comicvine call them, since Clark has done so already and currently. Wally can do the same here.

Believe it or not, Team DC can win 5/10 if not 6/10.

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All_Mighty_Beyonder

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@war_ruin said:

@all_mighty_beyonder: The question you're really asking is How is superman and wally going to deal with Surfer? Since, this is New 52 Superman and Wally, I'll just use those feats of those versions.

Superman and Wally have this kind of advance ability called perception speed. Wally has seen light as if it was frozen. Superman has perceived a supernatural imagery light move in a odd way. Surfer has time travel, but it won't work because it takes time to accelerate. Plus, he has to deal with Supes and wally. You can have time traveling speed all you want. However, if you don't have perception speed, its not going to make a difference.

Superman cancels Surfer's intangibility with his ice breath (Yes, current supes has froze intangible beings.) Wally can vibrate through Surfer and damage him from there. current new 52 Clark has dent and punched organic steel. So, Clark's punches will affect the Surfer. Same with Wally. As for Thor, Wally can just vibrate through him and speed steal. Superman is, currently, stronger than Thor. He is alot faster than thor in both, traveling and perception speed. Superman can also survive and endure Surfer's black holes, as most people in comicvine call them, since Clark has done so already and currently. Wally can do the same here.

Believe it or not, Team DC can win 5/10 if not 6/10.

it's been months since i checked my CV profile. lucky me you're reply isn't old. okey, let's see what you said...

perception speed? don't you think Surfer has it too? Surfer has showed perception speed many times, the most famous one is when he figured out that he was chained, and his powers were drained by the machine that chains him, and he destroyed that machine and freed himself. Did you know how much time it took him from perceiving he was chained untill he freed himself? LESS THAN A NANOSECOND, that's way faster than light.

N52 Superman has shown nothing that suggest he has lightspeed perception let alone lightspeed reaction time (unless i'm missing somes issues). You said he perceived supernatural imagery light move in a odd way? that's no different from a normal human seeing a lazer move in an odd way, it don't mean he has lightspeed perception, and even if he had so, perception is a thing, and reaction is another thing, Superman didn't show any lightspeed or above lightspeed reaction, while Surfer showed that many many times.

if Superman decides to take on Surfer first, then he will be the first to go down, Surfer is too much for Superman, Surfer will drain Superman out of his solar energy before he even realises what's happening, and leave him dead in no time.

Against Wally it's a little bit tricky, the only effective attack Wally has is speed steal, and it won't stop Surfer permanently, because he can still use astral projection to beat easily the Flash.

oh and Surfer's flesh isn't organic steel, Surfer's flesh resist supernovas with no harm at all, Superman's punches are barely barely moon's to small planet's destroyer.

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reaverlation

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Wally solos

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PabloSL

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I say team one, on an epic battle

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johnfrank120

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trickzzz

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Could go either way.

But Silver Surfer solos.

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MarkTheDead

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#360  Edited By MarkTheDead

Team 2. SS is neutralized by Wally pretty easily both rounds, and Supes scrapes by Thor in the first round, second round he batters Thor to an Asgardian paste.

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deactivated-652b01b81dedd

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Surfer solos.

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Comicuser

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flash solos

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mezlabor

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Everyone solos it

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galactus1967

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Oh come on ,they don`t show it much but surfer is faster than the flash.and Thor and supes are around equal.So the marvel guys win easy,give me a brake,cripes.

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Comicuser

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surfer is NOT faster than wally.

Wally is about 1,000 times faster.

I forgot who posted the proof of that.

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Brucey_25

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Surfer solos tbh

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Kingant27

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#367  Edited By Kingant27

The Silver Surfer solo's.

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RealityWarper

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Team 1 both rounds

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reaverlation

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#369  Edited By reaverlation

Wally still solos

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All_Mighty_Beyonder

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@comicuser: @reaverlation: How Flash solo?

IMP ? nop, it's under light speed, Surfer will easily dodge it, and it will give him enough time to transmute Wally.

Speed steal? nop, it might stop Surfer from moving, but it won't stop his astral form from taking down Wally

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RealityWarper

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@comicuser: @reaverlation: How Flash solo?

IMP ? nop, it's under light speed, Surfer will easily dodge it, and it will give him enough time to transmute Wally.

Speed steal? nop, it might stop Surfer from moving, but it won't stop his astral form from taking down Wally

Adding to the fact that the IMP was in a very specific case : Zum crossed Wally's path when he was at full speed and too a hit in the face.

This has no chance to happen.

According to the fact that Thor can store the energy of Silver Surfer in his hammer, release a magical cosmic tenfold at Superman that will one-shot him and that both can release high scale AOE (planetary for Thor), the team DC don't stand a chance.

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SpawnOfGod

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PabloSL

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#374  Edited By PabloSL

I'm getting tired of flash's PIS and crap, jesus I've seen him get tagged by quite some slow idiots and he even stated that speed stealing someone like supes would cause him big colateral damage

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@pablosl said:

I getting tired of flash's PIS and crap, jesus I've seen him get tagged by quite some slow idiots and he even stated that speed stealing someone like supes would cause him big colateral damage

Agreed.

And with his durability top tier characters wrecks him.

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SpawnOfGod

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I think peoples problem is that they dont know the forum rules so they say things that dont matter here.

Besides. If you wanted to play that game, you say youve seen flash get tagged by slower than FTL people(in a comic book of course), then I could play along and say that Ive seen thor knocked out by weak ass Mantis, and seen him not be able to hit slow characters like wolverine. I've even seen silver surfer get knocked out by humans with a sledge hammer.

So why would you want to play that game?

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TheGrayGhost

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Mantis hurting Thor is totally a legitimate feat for Mantis. Its what makes her the karate kid of the MU( though not quite on the same scale)

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@pablosl said:

I getting tired of flash's PIS and crap, jesus I've seen him get tagged by quite some slow idiots and he even stated that speed stealing someone like supes would cause him big colateral damage

Agreed.

And with his durability top tier characters wrecks him.

Didn't Black Panther put Silver Surfer in a headlock? Oh right, he did.

Didn't Silver Surfer get pummeled to the ground by a bunch of latinos with hammers? Oh right, he did.

Wasn't Thor having difficulty tagging street level characters?

Yeah, in low showings, silver surfer and Thor take the cake in much more grandeur. Or lack thereof.

So why try and do this dance?

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#381  Edited By RealityWarper

@nickthedevil said:

@realitywarper said:

@pablosl said:

I getting tired of flash's PIS and crap, jesus I've seen him get tagged by quite some slow idiots and he even stated that speed stealing someone like supes would cause him big colateral damage

Agreed.

And with his durability top tier characters wrecks him.

Didn't Black Panther put Silver Surfer in a headlock? Oh right, he did.

Didn't Silver Surfer get pummeled to the ground by a bunch of latinos with hammers? Oh right, he did.

Wasn't Thor having difficulty tagging street level characters?

Yeah, in low showings, silver surfer and Thor take the cake in much more grandeur. Or lack thereof.

So why try and do this dance?

Yeah yeah !

And cops + grass + 10 years old > Thanos + Cosmic Cube

Ans STAIRS > DARKSEID + PROF X.

I GIVE YOU THE HAND BACK ON THIS

MY KNOWLEDGE JUST EXHAUSTED ! >_<

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nickthedevil

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#382  Edited By nickthedevil

@realitywarper said:

Yeah yeah !

And cops + grass + 10 years old > Thanos + Cosmic Cube

Ans STAIRS > DARKSEID + PROF X.

I GIVE YOU THE HAND BACK ON THIS

MY KNOWLEDGE JUST EXHAUSTED ! >_<

Before you bring up the Darksied falling down stairs instance, how about you read the context?

Darkseid was humbling himself in front of Desaad to get him confident enough to take the Omega Effect, rather than go through the hard work of getting it back himself. Once Desaad had it, Darkseid took it from him because the last time Darkseid gained the Omega Effect, it was rather unpleasant.

So please, read a book before bringing up situations.

Even so, Thanos and Darkseid are not in this.

However, thank you for going ahead nad proving my point further. Everyone has low showings. Thanks, kid.

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SpawnOfGod

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@realitywarper said:

Yeah yeah !

And cops + grass + 10 years old > Thanos + Cosmic Cube

Ans STAIRS > DARKSEID + PROF X.

I GIVE YOU THE HAND BACK ON THIS

MY KNOWLEDGE JUST EXHAUSTED ! >_<

Before you bring up the Darksied falling down stairs instance, how about you read the context?

Darkseid was humbling himself in front of Desaad to get him confident enough to take the Omega Effect, rather than go through the hard work of getting it back himself. Once Desaad had it, Darkseid took it from him because the last time Darkseid gained the Omega Effect, it was rather unpleasant.

So please, read a book before bringing up situations.

Even so, Thanos and Darkseid are not in this.

However, thank you for going ahead nad proving my point further. Everyone has low showings. Thanks, kid.

Friday daaamn

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PabloSL

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#384  Edited By PabloSL

@nickthedevil: SS being brought down by some latinos is nothing but bad writting, its like using Thanos vs NYPD for an argument and Thor holds back when fighting lesser beings he ALWAYS does it no matter what(he said so).

Also everyone always uses Thor missing wolverine as an argument, then why can't I use flash being tagged? I mean Thor does have some speed feats, but people who want to win an argument claim their scan of Thor being slow is more valid and that's just BS, the flash can be f*cking tagged he always has been.

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nickthedevil

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#385  Edited By nickthedevil

@pablosl said:

@nickthedevil: SS being brought down by some latinos is nothing but bad writting, its like using Thanos vs NYPD for an argument. Also Thor holds back when fighting lesser beings he ALWAYS does it no matter what(he said so).

Also everyone always uses Thor missing wolverine as an argument, then why can't I use flash being tagged? I mean Thor does have some speed feats, but people who want to win an argument claim their scan of Thor being slow is more valid and that's just BS, the flash can be f*cking tagged he always has been.

So Flash has valid speed feats, but people bring up the Deathstroke and other Street level examples.

How is your arguement any different than mine?

In a battle in this forum, we forgo the occasional PIS that doesn't allow for Orion to solo a whole army of cannon fodder aliens, or Flash to take care of every crime ever perpetrated.

In doing this, Flash becomes his fastest, and without plot to hold him back, he becomes nigh unstoppable. Indirectly, Flash becomes a very heated topic, I understand that, and so must you. Chill out.

So, going your way, barring "Bad writing" how does Thor hit Flash?

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PabloSL

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#386  Edited By PabloSL

@nickthedevil: Thor is capable is seeing him and probably prediciting him, considering the reaction and speed feats he had, the thing is how much does it take for the flash to speed steal someone like Thor? is it instantly?

Sorry, the flash is a character that make me nervous due to how unjustified and random his power are lol

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nickthedevil

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@pablosl said:

@nickthedevil: Thor is capable is seeing him and probably prediciting him, considering the reaction and speed feats he had, the thing is how much does it take for the flash to speed steal someone like Thor? is it instantly?

Instantly. And he can do it from a distance.

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PabloSL

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@nickthedevil: And wouldn't it cause him that "colateral damage" he once mentioned? considering this is Thor

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nickthedevil

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@pablosl said:

@nickthedevil: And wouldn't it cause him that "colateral damage" he once mentioned? considering this is Thor

Colateral damage how?

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PabloSL

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#390  Edited By PabloSL

@nickthedevil: I remember a quote from flash saying that speed stealing someone on supes level or so would cause him big colateral damage (I don't really know why exactly), but I don't remember what issue or anything, I just saw it on a random thread

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#391  Edited By UberHulk

Thor can engulf a star, let alone a planet, in a storm of lightning, wind, fire, ice, whatever he chooses. Flash can only phase in short bursts so he'd get wiped out. Superman gets boned by magic so the same attack would drop him as well. Team 1 in both rounds. Annihilators 2 (Stormbreaker has the same abilities as Mjolnir)

I want to see evidence that Flash' IMP is a planetary level attack, the White Martian scans prove no such thing and I want to see evidence that Flash has phased through and wiped out Superman or Doomsday. He phased through a weakened Darkseid in Final Crisis and Darkseid's durability isn't close to Thor or Silver Surfers.

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#392  Edited By Cosmic_Lantern

@comicuser: @reaverlation:

No Caption Provided

SS and Captain Atoms Molecular Manipulation are roughly equal due to his new 52 boost, both have shown so on a planetary scale so whats stopping this from happening again?

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

l don't see either of them stopping him while he's bloodlusted, and he can reform his body at any time with the power cosmic which makes it hard to completely kill him by physical means.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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People get seriously upset in Flash threads, jeeesh.

I'll back team DC for a slim majority of 6/10.

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SpawnOfGod

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thor can do many things. beat flash is not one of them

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reaverlation

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People get seriously upset in Flash threads, jeeesh.

It's very tedious and hilarious

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#396  Edited By Artyom

DC team.

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#397  Edited By Artyom

@uberhulk: What makes you think that Flash's vibrating is only in a short burst? Whenever he time travels he has to keep a constant vibration, and he would stay there for a long time. Then he would relax his vibrations and return to the present. This was before he could time travel by just running through the Speed Force.

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ariesxmasters

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Interesting match up I will say.

In a actual comic fight: Silver Surfer and Thor would win without much effort.

On Comic vine: Superman and Flash are gods and uber stomp anyone.

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@nickthedevil said:

@realitywarper said:

Yeah yeah !

And cops + grass + 10 years old > Thanos + Cosmic Cube

Ans STAIRS > DARKSEID + PROF X.

I GIVE YOU THE HAND BACK ON THIS

MY KNOWLEDGE JUST EXHAUSTED ! >_<

Before you bring up the Darksied falling down stairs instance, how about you read the context?

Darkseid was humbling himself in front of Desaad to get him confident enough to take the Omega Effect, rather than go through the hard work of getting it back himself. Once Desaad had it, Darkseid took it from him because the last time Darkseid gained the Omega Effect, it was rather unpleasant.

So please, read a book before bringing up situations.

Even so, Thanos and Darkseid are not in this.

However, thank you for going ahead nad proving my point further. Everyone has low showings. Thanks, kid.

Stairs >>>>>>>>>> Darkseid

Stay stuck to the feats if you want to become a real journalist.