Shuma Gorath vs. White Phoenix of the Crown.

Please don't put one of my favorites in battles it cannot win. 
 
You're going to make me look bad whenever I defend Shuma.

lol!

I'm not a Marvel fan so i know I'll be corrected one way or another.
 
My vote goes to Shuma. While Phoenix is obviously multiversal, Shuma's beyond the Marvel multiverse ain't he?

"  I am not saying that Shuma is weak, I am just saying the Phoenix would win easily because of how powerful she is. :) "

Shuma Gorath wins easily.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
*activates flame shields*

" Shuma Gorath wins easily.         *activates flame shields* "

i respect Shuma-Gorath's power.. but i guess he is just way out of his league here.. WPOTC wins but Shuma-Gorath will surely give a good fight..

Oh yeah , the person who said it will take Sise-Neg to beat Shuma now says that he loses to WPOTC .

" @Baldy said:

" Shuma Gorath wins easily.         *activates flame shields* "

What case can you make for this?   Though I guess if one looks at things from a certain perspective one could make a case for that.  Example: People say it took Eternity and Dormammu combined to stop Zom. Apparently, Dormammu was first written to be close to Eternity's level because he could at least go toe-to-toe with him, but throughout the years he has been retconned. In Shuma-Gorath's arc, it was made clear that Dormammu was far inferior to Shuma-Gorath in power at a time when Dorm was still being written as being capable of hanging with Eternity. Therefore, since Shuma-Gorath is demonstrated to be superior to Dormammu by a great deal at a time when Dormammu was written to be so super powerful, that means Shuma should also be able to take care of Eternity.   :D See what I did there?   But really, why do you think Shuma wins? "

" Oh yeah , the person who said it will take Sise-Neg to beat Shuma now says that he loses to WPOTC . "

@lord_oraculous016 said: " i respect Shuma-Gorath's power.. but i guess he is just way out of his league here.. WPOTC wins but Shuma-Gorath will surely give a good fight.. "I agree

white phoenix will be able to put shuma to sleep.

I think i read somewhere that SHUMA can be defeated by HIGH level MAGIC or the GREATEST cosmic entities (which PHOENIX is definitely a candidate) so i predict that Phoenix would win the battle 9 times out of 10. 
It would be a wasted still considering i dont think that either can EVER TRULY DIE.

Please don't put one of my favorites in battles it cannot win.   You're going to make me look bad whenever I defend Shuma.

@Edamame said:

@capall: The Phoenix Force has been defeated by less powerful opponents.

by mega PIS

WPOTC Murderstomps this one eyed ugly monster.

Classic Doc Strange had to merge with a god, the dark energy of another god, magic potential from a sorceress, learn extensive black magic from a dark wizard, and obtain an evil item that let him absorb magic, all in preparation just to face Shuma-Gorath, and he still could only stalemate Shuma until he started to absorb Shuma's power when Shuma struck him.

The Force itself as well as its avatars have been shattered, BFR'd, etc by much less. Give me implied powers all you want, but from what we've actually seen, Shuma's a more worthy opponent and would wreck any version of Phoenix.

Shuma-Gorath 

any version of the phoenix would win this white crown stomps.

@comic_book_fan said:

any version of the phoenix would win this white crown stomps.

lolno

@comic_book_fan said:

any version of the phoenix would win this white crown stomps.

No they don't.

Shuma

WOPTC wins easily, sure Shuma is a powerful demon and a multiversal entity but the Phoenix Force is a the very creation and the Big Bang itself, it is pure limitless. it represents Creation so all Life that was, is and every will be is subject to it and i don't see Shuma defeating Creation.

So Jean as WPOTC is one with Creation/Life itself, u can not distroy her cz she is no longer a being. every dimension there is, every being r subject to the WPOTC, she has every power there is.

She is the very nexus of all psionic energy, meaning u need to drain psionic energy from the PF in order to use psionic abilities, plus she would be competely invisible against a psionic user.

I don't see Shuma harming the WPOTC for two reasons, first she is way above her League as WPOTC is beyond any reality, time and space and Shuma is not. second Shuma can not overcome or rival Creation/life and the big bang. the PF is second ony to the creator himself

@emmett_frost: If this is such a mismatch, then why bump it?

a multiversal entity

Not even close.

u can not distroy her cz she is no longer a being. every dimension there is, every being r subject to the WPOTC, she has every power there is.

So any being who can destroy creation can destroy WOPTC?

the PF is second ony to the creator himself

Just a statement, Pre-Retcon Beyonder, God Doom etc are all superior.

Phoenix

@emmett_frost: Shuma is not a demon, he is a creature that resides in the void outside reality. Shuma consumes reality, perhaps he is the perfect weapon against the WPotC. That said, I believe this version of the Phoenix is meant to be more powerful...still, over time Shuma would be a threat.

Phoenix.

@six-deuce: actually that honor goes to the First Fallen "the opposite of the PF", not Shuma. And yes Shuma-Gorath is a demon just like Cyttorak, Chlthon, Set etc. No creature can rival the PF/WPOTC as they r creation itself.

@apewar012467: no one can distroy creation itself and the big Bang except TOAA himself. All of those u mentioned r TOAA's creation and the PF is part of TOAA. And no one is above the Phoenix except him.

Shuma.

Phoenix easy. This version is the sum total of all the PF in the multiverse. This Phoenix manipulates universes at will. Shuma cannot even get a foot hold on 616 earth LMAO.

@apewar012467: 1) Yes she is a multiversal entity. I will only cite Here Comes Tomorrow as one feat since everyone in the Vine cites it. A more solid feat in my opinion is this one from the Uncanny X-Men Annual.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wiEbcOVj-is/U8afvfhM2yI/AAAAAAAEFFc/hWpgez8YWFM/s1600/-004.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kNDJAfqyXJg/U8af3gUz8gI/AAAAAAAEFHQ/D7qMcQHIc6g/s1600/-018.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OmWra3GBaIk/U8af34nTesI/AAAAAAAEFHM/sCbaH2XtWbA/s1600/-019.jpg

Not to mention the Phoenix itself without a host, and weaker than White Phoenix, was capable of a multiversal level feat.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/56904/1204550-phoenix_tower_multiverse.jpg

Then there is the White Hot Room, residing in the M'Kraan Crystal, aka the Nexus of all Realities. You destroy the M'Kraan Crystal, according to one of the guardians Jaff, you destroy the multiverse.

https://uncannyxmen.net/sites/default/files/images/article/mkraan2.jpg

2) That theory is debunked by the fact that Phoenix survived the previous time the M'Kraan Crystal breaking and destroying a universe. That would be the universe Galactus was from and it restarted the universe once the M'Kraan Crystal was repaired under unknown circumstances. We are not talking about any ordinary Phoenix that must sustain its energy form by feeding, we are talking about White Phoenix, who is Jean Grey and Phoenix as one being, no separate distinguishment, ergo giving her access to all of the Phoenix power in their natural state.

3) Beyonder is debatable. God Doom is not at all superior. His powers were sustained by other beings and he could not gain powers that the White Phoenix clearly has such as what I demonstrated above: Omniscience. What is more, Cassandra Nova nearly accessed a White Phoenix (one of the first established alternate White Phoenixes aside from the ones in video games), and claimed to have the capability with her at Cassandras side to reach mutants across Battleworld. From what I had gathered from Secret Wars, none of the sections are allowed to cross the barriers, or else incurring Dooms wrath. That mean she she had the confidence that not even Doom could stop her with White Phoenix at her side sustaining an for helping her.

http://abload.de/image.php?img=1i3ue3.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SwoNMYbyYIQ/VbB1uzGAY9I/AAAAAAANlFY/V6RB2Kotups/s1600/p_33_46.jpg