your wank means you are either a troll or a totally lost person.
if you think that Mephisto soloing Dormammu, Gorath, and Nightmare simultaneously is an accurate portrayal of all of these characters' power levels and is consistent, then you're just coping.
it's not even like it was a true Gorath since the fight happened outside of his realm and we know that Gorath uses avatars to manifest himself in other dimensions.
@betatesthighlander1: ah yeah because Sise-neg at his absolute height of power (which was universe+) could only make Shuma sleep. He couldn't so anything else. Shuma beats mephisto like a violent stepdad beats his son.
1. Sise wasnt at the height of his power. He would not be until he would absorb the big bang.
2. He didnt say all he could do was make Shuma sleep. He said fighting Shuma further could interfere with his plans.
3. Even if that was a universe level feat, Shuma's multiple losses to Crom and others blatantly below universe level make that an outlier
4. Even if Shuma was universe level (which he very clearly us not) we know, for a fact, that Mephisto wins. Because they fought and Mephisto won.
1. Technically true, yet the core point still stands that he was at an absurd height of power.
2. What do you mean? He literally says he can't attempt to destroy it because it would take time, so he resorted in using Shuma's own powers to manipulate him to sleep. It's literally what he says and what he narrates himself doing. It's needless to claim anything else. He literally says that he can't attempt it, not that it would be a certainty even at that point and height at his power. That says plenty..
3. It's because IIRC Shuma's losses are stipulated with conditions. His prescence and power-utilization is always hinged on something/conditions need to be met. Isn't it always some reason as to why his full power? I'm fairly sure. Either that or i'll honestly pull the "low end feat"-string.
4. He is. And that's ok, because Thor's lost to opponents he should win vs, Odin's performed shitty vs opponents he would sweep vs, Fodder has knocked out or dealt absurd damage to several tiers of characters often and so on and so forth. Just because it's 1-0 doesn't mean it's 100-0 on paper. On paper it's more like 99 to Shuma and 1 to Meph..
1. Okay well what's an absurd power and why would you assume it was comparable to mephisto?
2. "Because it would take time" being the key word. That's him saying he could do it. If you say " I cant paint that wall because it would take 8 hours" you are saying you are capable of painting the wall. Just that you don't feel like it. Maybe Sise was overestimating himself, but he did evaluate himself at a power capable of destroying Shuma Gorath.
3. I dont know if I'm correctly interpreting what you said here, the sentences are vague and stilted so I may not be replying to what you are trying to say but: if you can only use your full power under very specific circumstances then that's a pretty major weakness. Which is essentially what I'm trying mainly, to say.
4. On paper it is not. Mephisto has matched Galactus, Shuma cant even defeat skyfathers. Shuma has lost literally every on panel fight he has ever been involved in. Mephisto won at least a few battles.
@betatesthighlander1: True form shuma Has never really been beaten and Shuma has minions that are multiversal. Threats to the multiverse. Accoridinging to LT.. Further Even with all the magic if a universe Side was only able to Banish his avatar.. Its his avatars who are banished never shuma beaten.. You talk about Mephisto not losing to skyfathers but Odin beat em heck Thor beat em in his own realm. Armed with a fraction of shuma power Strange busted a entire galaxy by accident..Mephisto has always been terrified by shuma and the shuma he beat was another avatar...shuma is well beyond Mephisto who is around Odin levels
On panel evidence doesn't say that Mephisto wins, it just says that Mephisto won against Shuma (likely avatar) during one encounter. Won once =/= will win again, will always win, regardless of conditions, or the author.
There is a reason why there are terms like "wanker" and "outlier" and "PIS" on battle forums, it's made for ignorant people like you who use just cherrypick one or a few specific instances that align with their headcanon and handwave the rest like they didn't happen.
You claiming that this is how the fight going to be is headcanon. Nobody claims that what you say didn't happen, but just because it happened doesn't mean it should be taken at face value or as be-all-end-all factor, especially when there are such things as character consistency and fight conditions.
I personally find several pieces of evidence more convincing than headcanon based on a single piece of evidence. If you want to argue why your headcanon superceded Marvel canon, be my guest.
Every version of Shuma Gorath who has ever appeared on panel was defeated on panel. So yes, the true form of Shuma Gorath the comic character has been beaten. If you are talking about some battleboarding headcanon character and not the Shuma Gorath we see in the comics: kindly refrain and discuss the topic at hand instead.
Shuma has never been anywhere near multiversal in the comics. Neither him nor any of his minions.
@sirdragonfly: it says Mephisto beat Shuma and several other foes at once with mo major injuries to himself.
Also, "likely avatar" is a pretty hilarious cope. The words "Shuma Gorath Avatar" have never even appeared on panel, it's something battlebosrd wankers invented to explain why a character they wanted based on no evidence loses every single fight he ever gets involved in.
Because, to be clear, Shuma Gorath has lost every. Single one. Of his on panel fights. As far as we know he has never once defeated a single opponent.
Anyway, everything that happens is necessarily taken at face value. If you dont take a factual event at face value, you are trying to explain how the event never happenned. No amount of equivocation will ever change that.
Okay and this may be difficult for you to understamd... but things that happen on panel are actually just canon. Not headcanon.
@betatesthighlander1: that a funny cause on panel literally Living tribunal states his generals are a threat to the multiverse itself. Also Shuma himself Defeated am onslaught of mumtiversal beings. Dormmamu waited and went to shuma realm thinking to take over only to his dismay finding Shuma the victor. Yes hes mumtiversal and No only his avatars have been beaten strait up
@betatesthighlander1: again incorrect only been avatars defeated including The one Side Neg banished and he held universal power and barely could do that.....Comics on panel>>> wiki
1. An absurd powet us every magic present in existence bar Shuma and the event of spark of creation. Sise-neg travelled throughout time and took every droplet of magic and energy there was at every instance of time. He literally had all of the magic there ever was at every frame of time bar Shuma and Big bang. Mephisto's got his tiny pocket realm where he didnt even manage to boot out Galactus, whom in turn ate of his gathered souls.
2.We fundamentally disagree. Sise-neg literally says attempt to do it. Not just do it. If you're at that absurd height of powet and still cant even be sure of victory, nor the time fighting it would take, you're facing a universe level threat.
3. Well no, i'd say its a feat for whomever or whatevet placed the stipulation.
4. Avatars. Its cannon that the prescence if Shuma destroys the ... Eeh was it dimensions, galaxy or universes... Regardless, when he manifests his own body, it's Lovecraft level of destruction. People dont usually beat him.
1. the comic didn't say that to any extent. And yes, Mephisto at least stood up Galactus though. Way better of a feat than anything done by Shuma Goath or by anybody who ever defeated him.
2. he does not literally say "attempt to do it", no. He says "I cannot attempt to destroy it since that would take time -- and in that time it would leech some of my carefully accumulated energy from me". That means he at least thinks he can destroy Shuma Gorath. Because if he couldn't destroy it, there would be no timeframe, he would say something like "I could die" or "it could destroy me". but he says, with absolute confidence that it could mess with his carefully accrued mystical energy while he fights it.
3. Okay? well if Shuma's powerset does not include "capable of fighting competently outside his home dimension" that's his weakness. That just means his power is "always losing nd always having an excuse for why he lost" which is a pretty useless power to anybody but battle board wankers.
4. No, that has literally never been canon. He has appeared on Earth multiple times and the narration ahs specifically said "shuma Goath" not "some avatar of shuma gorath" every guidebook he has appeared in agrees otherwise. What you are suggesting is just a lie. it's blatantly against canon.
Brevoort considers shuma Gorath weaker than Cytorrak under more circumstances than not.
Mephisto shook multiple galaxies in his battle with Galactus. Shuma Gorath has literally never had a feat on par with that. In his entire existence, not one.
As for this "avatar" talk, we have seen what Dr Strnage calls an "avatar" of Shuma Gorath, and an "avatar" of Shuma Goath literally is not even peak human
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We know that because Conan beat the shit out of it with his bare hands.
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And we see later that he can easily kill one with his sword. and when Shuma sends another Avatar to Earth, he beats it to death with a prosthetic leg.
Doctor Strange also easily killed an Avatar of Shuma Gorath with a microwave
Gallery
Actual comic book canon says an "Avatar" of Shuma Gorath is too weak to defeat Conan, and we know this because he manifested one specifically to kill Conan and Conan killed dit with trivial ease.
Three separate feats from three separate issues, consistency is on the side of Shuma not being all that powerful.
Now, even going beyond that, when Strange enters Shuma's dimension he bares the scars of the microwave and even specifically says Kulan Gath has bested him
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Kulan Gath is a guy who the likes of Conan, Red Sonja, Spider-Man, etc all regularly fight.
And that exchange ended with Shuma Gorath begging Strange to kill him, and Strange eventually acquiesced and did it.
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Just going by feats...Shuma Gorath is completely pathetic. As I keep saying, he has won zero fights in his entire existence. He has NOTHING on Mephisto.
Brevoort considers shuma Gorath weaker than Cytorrak under more circumstances than not.
Breevort also said that 9 year old kids are faster than Thor
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Breevort says that Odin >>> Mjolnir enchantment >> Phoenix Force
Breevort says that making his fans angry is good for selling comic books, pretty much every comment he has ever made makes people angry because they're nonsensical, he is just a troll but he makes money from it.
Brevoort considers shuma Gorath weaker than Cytorrak under more circumstances than not.
Breevort also said that 9 year old kids are faster than Thor
Loading Video...
Breevort says that Odin >>> Mjolnir enchantment >> Phoenix Force
Breevort says that making his fans angry is good for selling comic books, pretty much every comment he has ever made makes people angry because they're nonsensical, he is just a troll but he makes money from it.
alright dude do you have any actual writer statements or comic narration or guide statement or like, any "voice of God" stating that Shuma is very powerful at all?
1. Yes it did. Dr strange explains it to us. Sise-neg travels through time and absorbs every ounce of magic.
2. False. I was looking at the actual panel when i wrote it the first time in post #17, you know, the one you replied to before i reinforced my stance and emphasis that he LITERALLY said ATTEMPT. He said exactly what i wrote. And the emphasis the second time was ATTEMPT. He would've done it if he could. The dude did it with each and every single opponent and encounter he came across, across space and time. That's like 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times itself amount of opponents he drained without going "hmmm maybe not, the best i can do is an attempt ...".
3. Ok
4. No. It's cannon that encounters isnt always with him himself, and the comic has explained why. Shuma tears the plane apart and it tears low tier beings apart just being near him. Im aware of contradictions and yet what i am saying is cannon as well.
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