Shuma gorath vs Dormammu

I'm by no means saying Shuma-Gorath isn't a huge threat just that he isn't going to take Dormammu. His feats are nowhere near as impressive. I mean I never seen Shuma-Gorath's version of Earth and it's heroes. Doctor Strange has never said that Dormmamu's power has become pitiful either like he has with Shuma-Gorath about there last meeting in the Chaos Dimension too.

@CitizenBane said:

Anyone who's warped the universe has beaten Eternity.

Warping the universe or reality is by no means beating Eternity.

@OneDoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor said:

@nickthedevil said:

@Eternity is a cosmic punching-bag who simply exists in the 616 universe to get wrecked by reality warpers and beings like Dormammu when the writer doesn't have a creative way of showing their power scales. Besides, I'm pretty sure Dormammu had some sort of outside help/amp/prep when taking on Eternity. Both Zom and Shuma are far more "terrible foes" for Strange, and the universe.

who else has beaten Eternity?

also, Dormammu had no Amping to his power when he disintegrated Eternity. put up those scans in the Dormammu vs THor thread earlier today.

Mephisto, Nightmare, D'Spayre with the Crimson Gem, Thanos (IG), Ancient One, Zom, Shuma, Dweller in Darkness, Beyonder, Slorioth, Korvoc, an Infinity Being's finger, Protege plus more

For Thanos with the IG and the Beyonder defeating or in their cases Eternity not even being able to do anything against them isn't much of a feat for them since they were on a completely different level. But the others like Mephisto for example didn't best Eternity in the same way Dormammu did. Dormammu recreated Earth and it's heroes the way he wanted it. Not just that Dormammu immersed himself into Eternity's essence becoming the Lord of Creation. Other than Shuma-Gorath's power in the Chaos Dimension he isn't on Dormammu's level outside it. And when entering another dimension he must sleep for a looong time. Shuma-Gorath couldn't even destroy his own creation he made as a protege Quoggoth. When Quoggoth rebelled Shuma-Gorath had to imprison him because he could not destroy him. Dormammu's greatest weakness is his arrogance in which he shows to many of his weaker or "lesser" opponents. But if he were to take on someone like Shuma-Gorath you best believe he wouldn't make arrogant mistakes.

shuma

Shuma-Gorath was beaten by Dr. Strange the first time, but only when he had absorbed the power of Gorath's servant and some of Gorath's power himself. He was utilising the same Chaotic powers from the Chaos Dimension as Gorath was, so he essentially had to tap into Gorath's own power to destroy him. The second time, Shuma Gorath had was weak and hungry, so not at his most powerful (this is stated in the middle of the fight) even then, Strange had to teleport him to Stonehedge (a place of magic) in order to banish him. The third time, he was stabbed by a godly spear that had been pretty much imbued with the power of Jesus. He has only been beaten when the odds have been stacked against him.

I'd say that they were about equal. It implies here that Gorath was stronger, but that could have easily been Gorath being arrogant. There is no evidence to support that one is stronger than the other. Both are dimension lords, both can damage the earth extensively (Gorath with his voodoo), both have vast mystic powers, and both are extremely hard to kill.

Of course, if I was giving in to my fanboy side, I would proclaim Gorath to be stronger, but i'm trying to be unbiased xD From what i've seen, I'd say they were equal in terms of power. Shuma does seem to have superior personal powers, though; he can make extremely powerful servants such as Quoggoth, control, manipulate and speak with people across dimensions, and can rain down fire on a town when stuck inside a mountain.

Shuma stomps

Shuma

Shuma should be more powerful.

Isnt this pretty much one dimensional conqueror vs one sentient dimension?

@Huokimo said:

Shuma-Gorath was beaten by Dr. Strange the first time, but only when he had absorbed the power of Gorath's servant and some of Gorath's power himself. He was utilising the same Chaotic powers from the Chaos Dimension as Gorath was, so he essentially had to tap into Gorath's own power to destroy him. The second time, Shuma Gorath had was weak and hungry, so not at his most powerful (this is stated in the middle of the fight) even then, Strange had to teleport him to Stonehedge (a place of magic) in order to banish him. The third time, he was stabbed by a godly spear that had been pretty much imbued with the power of Jesus. He has only been beaten when the odds have been stacked against him.

I'd say that they were about equal. It implies here that Gorath was stronger, but that could have easily been Gorath being arrogant. There is no evidence to support that one is stronger than the other. Both are dimension lords, both can damage the earth extensively (Gorath with his voodoo), both have vast mystic powers, and both are extremely hard to kill.

Of course, if I was giving in to my fanboy side, I would proclaim Gorath to be stronger, but i'm trying to be unbiased xD From what i've seen, I'd say they were equal in terms of power. Shuma does seem to have superior personal powers, though; he can make extremely powerful servants such as Quoggoth, control, manipulate and speak with people across dimensions, and can rain down fire on a town when stuck inside a mountain.

IMO the best evidence of Dormammu being more powerful is Doctor Strange himself saying that Dormammu is his "most terrible foe", and "at full power no one could stand against". Also Dormammu's feats are leaps and bounds above Shuma-Gorath's. Most of Shuma-Gorath's feats are hyperbole.

I will say that if Shuma-Gorath is at 100% in the Chaos Dimension he is more powerful than Dormammu but outside of it (anywhere else) he is weaker.

The thing is Shuma-Gorath doesn't invoke on other powers but its own and the ambient energy that is around him. In other words, Shuma's personal powers is far greater no matter how you look at it. He naturally drains all energy just by being present and the gravity of his absorption can reach out into universes from universes. Dormammu has incredible personal power that might be in par to Agamotto, but he also has stackable invoking powers from other extra-dimensional beings including Shuma. Though it may sound a little bit redundant, the only way Dormammu can defeat Shuma, is by becoming Shuma itself. Otherwise, there won't be a point since Shuma will just suck dry the energy used against him anyway.

Shuma > Dormammu

@Ego said:

shuma wins

@ChompOnThis12589:

And when entering another dimension he must sleep for a looong time. Shuma-Gorath couldn't even destroy his own creation he made as a protege Quoggoth. When Quoggoth rebelled Shuma-Gorath had to imprison him because he could not destroy him.

And yet Dormammu couldn't even contain his OWN creation (the Mindless Ones) from his OWN home dimension, and needed Doctor Strange's help to recreate the barrier that prevented them from completely overwhelming him.

Whereas Quoggoth never posed a similar strain of difficulty for Gorath.

@ChompOnThis12589:

But the others like Mephisto for example didn't best Eternity in the same way Dormammu did.

All thanks to a huge shift in the cosmic axis which GREATLY amped his and his sister Umar's personal powers, which in turn nullifies the implication that he could best Eternity at ALL under normal circumstances.

In any event.... the god Agamotto (either with or without the help of Hoggoth and Oshtur) could not best Shuma, and yet he is >>>>>>>>>>>Dormammu.

Therefore Shuma is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dormammu.

Shuma Gorath wins

SHUMA GORATH!!!!

Dormammu is a more interesting character, but that doesn't give him the win for this fight. Sorry Dorma.

I'm on Dormammu's side. Hyperbole feats won't suede me.

Shuma Gorath stomps

Shuma gorath

Shuma easy.

im new to comics and i dont know much about these 2 curious to see what people would say today

@vance_astro: When Reed says things like that. I honestly think he is just trying to think of people who are smart enough to get him.

One is stronger than the other.

i need a more convincing argument than that..i need feats, scans etc...

Shuma-Gorath wins.

1. He's a Multiverse demonic entity whose billions of years old & rules over hundreds of Universes.

2. Is the the ruler of the Lovecraftian race of demons called the Many-Angled Ones.

3. Ability to transmutate worlds.

4. Destroys multiple galaxies thru aura-pressure alone.

How many infinite universes has Dormammu conquered. Can only think one or two alternate realities where that alternate Dormammu conquered his universe. In Earth-616 he came close to conquering the universe twice, once with the Eye of Evil in the 1970s and later when cosmos aligned perfectly. For Shuma-Gorath to conquer the universe without use of Infinity Gauntlet, Eye of Evil, Cosmic Cube, etc it means used his own power & his race of demons, enslaving-destroying the Celestials & the Cosmic Aspects.

@esparza3368: The Dark Dimension is infinite in size and Dormammu conquered many Universes too:

Gallery

Shuma.

Shuma.

Shuma

Can The Vishanti combined take out Shuma using a small amount of his full power? Nope.

Can Dormammu take out the Vishanti? Nope

Thusly, Shuma takes out Dormammu without much of a problem.

@asmodeus12345:

My mistake, after reading your most recent post & doing further research I agree that Dormammu is a multiversal conqueror making him more formidable than I believed. Still have to say Shuma-Gorath is greater threat. Here is my reasoning:

1. Officially per Marvel and per canon in the comics, the Old Ones are the most powerful demons out there. Just as normal demons rose from the nightmares & evil of the mortals of the universe, the Old Ones came from the nightmares & evil of the demons. Therefore Shuma-Gorath being the "Master of the Old Ones" he would have to be the most powerful demon in existence.

2. Shuma-Gorath is unique, only one of him in the Multiverse. Only others that are likely unique that come to mind is the Living Tribunal & the Shadow King. Granted that could change in the future after all originally Set was also unique (and Multiversal conqueror of a number of Earths - see the Congress of Crowns), until it was revealed there were 2-3 other alternate Sets. Marvel has never said or implied that there is only one Dormammu.

3. Shuma-Gorath rules a dimension (whose size at minimum is the size of a galaxy) that is outside the Multiverse and populated by the Old Ones. That makes his realm unique like that of the Dimension of Manifestations & the dimension where the Executioners were imprisoned by the Celestials (both of them outside the Multiverse). It also has never been said or implied that the Dark Dimension is also unique in that manner.

4. As we have already discussed when Shuma-Gorath presence makes itself known in a regular universe (many galaxies destroyed), never has Dormammu had that effect. Nor has Dormammu been able to dp what Shuma-Gorath can do which is transmutate a planet outside his reality by sending a tiny fraction of his power thru (Dormammu has to absorb the planet into his realm).

5. Marvel specifically mention that Shuma-Gorath has conquered "Hundreds" of universes which can mean 101 Universes to 999 Universes. The fact that is specifically mentioned by Marvel is to emphasize his power and the danger that he is to the Multiverse. No number is thrown out for Dormammu nor do they say countless or numerous, which would imply that he conquered a few universes or perhaps couple dozen universes.

Now all the above being said Dormammu may appear to be the greater threat or power for the simple fact he gets a lot more print in the comics than Shuma-Gorath does. In fact he has been one of the main villains of Marvel and archenemy of Doctor Strange & the Defenders. Reason for that is Shuma-Gorath was a big villain for short time in 1970s then mostly away, until he came back in a video game where he became popular and now is getting alot more print. Personally I have always been a fan of Thanos & Magneto myself.

Cosmic Conquerors based on own power:

1. Shuma-Gorath

2. Dormammu.

3. Tyrant

4. Thanos

Cosmic Conquerors based on print time:

1. Thanos

2. Dormammu

3. Shuma-Gorath

4. Tyrant

@duke_checkmate_iii: no,dormammu jobs to strange.he doesnt lose.and all times doctor strange has defeated dormammu is by running our banishing him

shuma gorath destroys.

Shuma Gorath, on paper.

Dormammu via feats.

Shuma

Stephen Strange needed to accumulate incredible power to even challenge dread Shuma-Gorath.

1) Train in the ways of black magic

2) Become master of the Wings of Needless Sorrow

3) Contain chaos energies within himself of the extra-dimensional Old One Ghaszaszh Nyirh

4) Absorb the magic potential of the mystic Victoria Bentley - her magic potential was higher than that of Strange's rival Baron Mordo

5) Absorb the very essence of Shuma-Gorath's lieutenant Arioch, who was a being composed of infinite energy

Yet while Stephen Strange was stuck in the body of a rat and powerless, he managed to beat back Dormammu with the Wings of Needless Sorrow alone, even when Dormammu had fully incarnated on Earth and had all of Strange's Sorcerer Supreme powers combined with his own. And even earlier, Strange was unable to communicate with the Elder God Gaea because she was weakened from multiple disturbances, the largest one being Shuma-Gorath's recent attack of Earth.

Shuma-Gorath destroys Dormammu. So says Ghaszaszh Nyrih.

@mr-luxcipher: 1 up

I think Shuma-Gorath>>>>>>>Dormammu

Xoxo~::/gossip~Guy!!!!!!.......❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

I think Dormammu can take it. I think his race is older than Shuma Gorath and has much more magical power and sources than Shuma. Plus, he is cooler :P

hentai

@laylah

I'd go with Dormy but Shuma has shown some pretty insane things as well.

Both have amassed entire dimensions under their heel and thats nothing to scoff at.

As far as I know, Shuma-Gorath is more powerful.

Shuma is obviously more powerful even dorms said that what is your bidding ancient one. Shuma is much older and more powerful then dorms.

when?

That was actually an illusion created by Shuma-Gorath, or, now that I think of it, are you referring to Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3?

Regardless, in the comics Strange noted that the real Dormammu is too proud to admit inferiority (even if it's true) to anyone. But this was written by Steve Englehart who was responsible for many of the major things in Strange's lore and he wrote Shuma-Gorath to be more powerful (the most powerful malevolent mystic force). It's possible Shuma-Gorath did this in boasting of his power and putting it in perspective for Strange. Or simply turned a memory of the Ancient One into a weapon against Strange.

Plus there are other signs, like the Ancient One's reaction to the potential invasion of both. When Dormammu set his eyes on Earth the Ancient One sent a fairly inexperienced and lesser powered Strange to the Dark Dimension to stop him. Where as when the Ancient One realized Shuma-Gorath was using his mind to cross over, he tried to kill himself and when that failed had Strange kill him in order to prevent it. Plus, we know Agamotto beats Dormammu, where as he couldn't beat Shuma-Gorath.

While the hype in the upcoming Strange issues are ambiguous at best with their plots and meaning behind the descriptions this might actually change in the hands of Strange's new writer.

@jrupert1: Nice insight

Dormmy

Shuma's still more powerful as far as we know.

Well....Until Jason Aaron decides to change that in the next issues of Strange's new series, which seems to be the case.