Shuma-Gorath is a quite powerful magic user. But let's see how far he can go in this scenario.
The various mystic entities of the Marvel Universe have decided that Shuma is a nuisance to their goals and a general d!ck, so they plan to kill him. Rather than let Shuma-Gorath get the jump on them elsewhere, they decide to go directly to Shuma's native dimension and give him a taste of his own medicine. Unfortunately for them, Shuma-Gorath has placed a mystic barrier around the realm that will only allow one visitor at a time.
If a challenger loses to Shuma-Gorath, that challenger gets its essence absorbed by Shuma-Gorath before the next challenger arrives. Battle can only be won by the challengers if Shuma-Gorath is destroyed. BFR is not an option since this is Shuma's realm.
How far does Lord Gorath get?
Note: All characters are their 616 versions, no alternate reality versions here.
Firstly Shuma Gorath, cant run very well i am afraid.
Secondly, pretty hard to say how he would compare against Master Order, but being an unaccomplished abstract i am willing to give Shuma a benefit of the doubt in his place of power.
At full power Shuma is going to have a pretty decent challenge from Solorith, neutral realm could go either way, but you are fighting Shuma in his place of power.
I would say stops are Death, not sure what power level Galactus would be, but if Thanos Imperative is any indication Death is capable of halting an entire cancervese invasion and push back the many angled ones, one of whom was Shuma Gorath (though outside his realm).
Death i cant understand , why Galactus though? Thanos Imperative pretty much solidifies how superior he is against Galactus and Celestials, any boost he gets from absorbing a solar system should be compensated by the boost Shuma gets from his own dimension, no?
Death i cant understand , why Galactus though? Thanos Imperative pretty much solidifies how superior he is against Galactus and Celestials, any boost he gets from absorbing a solar system should be compensated by the boost Shuma gets from his own dimension, no?
Probably.
Though, I'm pretty certain Death could take him out.
EDIT: My mistake. I just read the OP again, and it turns out the battles take place in Shuma's home dimension.
Though, I'm pretty certain Death could take him out.
EDIT: My mistake. I just read the OP again, and it turns out the battles take place in Shuma's home dimension.
In this case, Shuma-Gorath clears everyone out.
LOL i though you did not read the OP too.
Well Eternity might be a problem, i think Eternity could take Shuma. Death would take him outside his dimension, as we saw during Thanos Imperative, in his dimension given how much Death jobs against people whom she cant really claim, i.e. Galactus and InBetweener.
i don't have a clear idea of Shuma-Gorath level of power, but i he surely stops at Death, i doubt he can pass through Slorioth or Galactus.
PS: Galactus just consumed a solar system, should be above Galactus who ate 4 planets and was stronger than 4 average Celestials.
Galactus and normal Celestial were like mere insects against the cancerverse Galactus engine, which was said to be less powerful than Shuma Gorath. Galactus engine alone fought a bunch of celestials, primordial gods and Galactus, with the team being on the losing side before Thanos and plot kicked in.
Shuma Gorath jobs, and jobs a lot but written properly is a monster.
i don't have a clear idea of Shuma-Gorath level of power, but i he surely stops at Death, i doubt he can pass through Slorioth or Galactus.
PS: Galactus just consumed a solar system, should be above Galactus who ate 4 planets and was stronger than 4 average Celestials.
Galactus and normal Celestial were like mere insects against the cancerverse Galactus engine, which was said to be less powerful than Shuma Gorath. Galactus engine alone fought a bunch of celestials, primordial gods and Galactus, with the team being on the losing side before Thanos and plot kicked in.
Shuma Gorath jobs, and jobs a lot but written properly is a monster.
Wait...so if Shuma absorbs the essence of a god that loses to him doesn't that mean he gets increasingly more powerful the further along the gauntlet? If so, Shuma's going to have his in-realm power PLUS the power of all those other gods surging through him, right? I can totally see Shuma stomping Galactus, Death, Eternity if he has the powers of all those before that point within himself.
Wait...so if Shuma absorbs the essence of a god that loses to him doesn't that mean he gets increasingly more powerful the further along the gauntlet? If so, Shuma's going to have his in-realm power PLUS the power of all those other gods surging through him, right? I can totally see Shuma stomping Galactus, Death, Eternity if he has the powers of all those before that point within himself.
^^^^ This is what the battle would boil down to, essentially.
Wait...so if Shuma absorbs the essence of a god that loses to him doesn't that mean he gets increasingly more powerful the further along the gauntlet? If so, Shuma's going to have his in-realm power PLUS the power of all those other gods surging through him, right? I can totally see Shuma stomping Galactus, Death, Eternity if he has the powers of all those before that point within himself.
^^^^ This is what the battle would boil down to, essentially.
Even without absorbing the powers of defeated demons he should clear, he is supposed to be omnipotent in his realm so I don't see how anybody in this gauntlet can beat him.
Wait...so if Shuma absorbs the essence of a god that loses to him doesn't that mean he gets increasingly more powerful the further along the gauntlet? If so, Shuma's going to have his in-realm power PLUS the power of all those other gods surging through him, right? I can totally see Shuma stomping Galactus, Death, Eternity if he has the powers of all those before that point within himself.
^^^^ This is what the battle would boil down to, essentially.
Even without absorbing the powers of defeated demons he should clear, he is supposed to be omnipotent in his realm so I don't see how anybody in this gauntlet can beat him.
Uhh... Strange beat Shuma-Gorath. Heck Shuma's probably the only godlike entity in the Marvel universe who has been made a bizzatch in his own realm. And it was done by Doc Strange no less.
Wait...so if Shuma absorbs the essence of a god that loses to him doesn't that mean he gets increasingly more powerful the further along the gauntlet? If so, Shuma's going to have his in-realm power PLUS the power of all those other gods surging through him, right? I can totally see Shuma stomping Galactus, Death, Eternity if he has the powers of all those before that point within himself.
^^^^ This is what the battle would boil down to, essentially.
Even without absorbing the powers of defeated demons he should clear, he is supposed to be omnipotent in his realm so I don't see how anybody in this gauntlet can beat him.
Uhh... Strange beat Shuma-Gorath. Heck Shuma's probably the only godlike entity in the Marvel universe who has been made a bizzatch in his own realm. And it was done by Doc Strange no less.
Shuma stops at Round 3 (Mephisto).
Upon his inception in Marvel Comics by the author Steve Englehart, Shuma-Gorath was portrayed to be the most magically powerful evil god within the Marvel universe. Shuma-Gorath is most powerful in its home dimension as it is omnipotent in every sense of the word, being the realm itself. It is not quite as powerful in its lesser realms and even less so in a realm not belonging to it, yet even in one of its lesser realm its power was stated to make the powerful demons Mephisto and Satannish look like “mice in a great temple”.
Shuma-Gorath force-fed his own essence to Strange, which, in turn, allowed the latter to defeat him and was the ONLY way the latter could do so.
@Ohgawd said:
Heck Shuma's probably the only godlike entity in the Marvel universe who has been made a bizzatch in his own realm.
Cyttorak jobbed to his Avatar in his own realm. Mephisto struggled against and even lost to a number of beings in his own realm. Dormammu jobbed to the Mindless Ones in the Dark Dimension. For your own sake... actually PICK UP a comic before you come onto these threads and start debating.
@Ohgawd said:
Shuma stops at Round 3 (Mephisto).
This same entity (Mephisto) who got bested by a NON-AMPED Strange and Doom in his own realm, suckered by Thanos, and fears the Serpent?
Beating Shuma in the Chaos Dimension?
Excuse me while I go take a few minutes to LAUGH my ass off.
Even in one of Shuma's lesser dimensions, Mephisto is recognized as an insignificant MICE compared to the powers that permeate the area.
Shuma-Gorath force-fed his own essence to Strange, which, in turn, allowed the latter to defeat him and was the ONLY way the latter could do so.
It was Strange that forced Shuma's energy into himself. He did the very same thing to one of his generals right before. Shuma even tells him something like "you drain my power, Strange..." Why would Shuma forcibly transfer his own power into someone else? That's stupid.
@Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper said:
@Ohgawd said:
Heck Shuma's probably the only godlike entity in the Marvel universe who has been made a bizzatch in his own realm.
Cyttorak jobbed to his Avatar in his own realm. Mephisto struggled against and even lost to a number of beings in his own realm. Dormammu jobbed to the Mindless Ones in the Dark Dimension. For your own sake... actually PICK UP a comic before you come onto these threads and start debating.
Cyttorak only faked defeat to toy with Cain Marko. Others have been beaten in their realms sure, but I haven't seen any other godlike entity get physically destroyed as shuma in the most pathetic way possible.
@Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper said:
@Ohgawd said:
Shuma stops at Round 3 (Mephisto).
This same entity (Mephisto) who got bested by a NON-AMPED Strange and Doom in his own realm, suckered by Thanos, and fears the Serpent?
Beating Shuma in the Chaos Dimension?
Excuse me while I go take a few minutes to LAUGH my ass off.
Even in one of Shuma's lesser dimensions, Mephisto is recognized as an insignificant MICE compared to the powers that permeate the area.
Gorath STOMPS every round.
In case you didnt notice, Shuma-Gorath was also in the Devil's Advocacy meeting and was farther behind the chair of Satan in the illustrations than practically every other demon, meaning he was one of the weakest there. And I dont know why an exaggerated statement from Kaluu means so much to you. Doc Strange has once called Satannish his most powerful adversary but how many actually believe that to be true?
Shuma-Gorath force-fed his own essence to Strange, which, in turn, allowed the latter to defeat him and was the ONLY way the latter could do so.
It was Strange that forced Shuma's energy into himself.
Wrong again.
Page 22: Shuma-Gorath strikes Stephen Strange with a tentacle, forcing the transformation upon him.
Page 24: The transformation allows Stephen Strange to tap into the essence of Shuma-Gorath.
Conclusion: Pick up a friggin' comic and actually READ it.
@Ohgawd said:
He did the very same thing to one of his generals right before.
Refer to my first point and the scans above.
@Ohgawd said:
Shuma even tells him something like "you drain my power, Strange..." Why would Shuma forcibly transfer his own power into someone else? That's stupid.
Because that's what happened AFTER Shuma-Gorath forced the transformation on Strange.
@Ohgawd said:
Cyttorak only faked defeat to toy with Cain Marko. Others have been beaten in their realms sure, but I haven't seen any other godlike entity get physically destroyed as shuma in the most pathetic way possible.
Shuma-Gorath was physically destroyed because his own energies were directed against him, due to a single MISTAKE that he made.
Mephisto getting shot down by a non-amped Strange in his home dimension and suffering physical destruction from Doom's tech IN his home dimension? Now THAT's COMPLETELY PATHETIC.
@Ohgawd said:
In case you didnt notice, Shuma-Gorath was also in the Devil's Advocacy meeting and was farther behind the chair of Satan in the illustrations than practically every other demon, meaning he was one of the weakest there.
So was Dormammu.... (the same guy who punked Mephisto... IN Hell too).
And Cyttorak.... (whose power by a meager fraction allowed a mere Avatar to punch holes through reality itself).
And CHTHON..... (whom I don't even have to BEGIN to explain)
If the Devil's Advocacy meeting is your strongest excuse for why Mephisto would beat Shuma-Gorath, then you're practically done here.
And using this same logic, Mephisto would also beat Dormammu (who he was consistently dwarfed and BESTED by), Cyttorak, and Chthon in their home dimensions.
Yeah.
Retarded.
@Ohgawd said:
And I dont know why an exaggerated statement from Kaluu means so much to you.
Kaluu's statement is an exaggeration and yet the Devil's Advocacy meeting (which makes next to NO statement or even the slightest implication of who's stronger than whom) means a thing or two to you?
Hypocrisy much?
We have an explicit statement from the Ancient One's equal Kaluu that Mephisto is CLEARLY inferior to Shuma-Gorath, whereas, Mephisto being closer to an empty chair is a feasible counter-evidence?
Excuse me while I go take another hour to LAUGH my ass off again.
Wait...so if Shuma absorbs the essence of a god that loses to him doesn't that mean he gets increasingly more powerful the further along the gauntlet? If so, Shuma's going to have his in-realm power PLUS the power of all those other gods surging through him, right? I can totally see Shuma stomping Galactus, Death, Eternity if he has the powers of all those before that point within himself.
Why single out Chthon on a list of Dormammu and Cyttorak, when Chthon has done next to nothing to even warrent a claim at 1/100th of a power level?
Also its wasnt a meager fraction it was 1/8 of his gem, and his feats in the same series is lackluster when compared to this level. He was explained as a universal threat but apart from punching through the dimension, and being mentally tweaked by Prof X what has Trion really done?
@I_am_Warlock: so,who powerful beyonder or AZathoth?or LT?
You will never got a 100% correct answer as we are talking about 2 beings from 2 completely different universe who have never met, and are never likely to meet. If i had to make my opinion similar level as LT rather than Beyonder, coz the latter is beyond multiversal concept.
AZ is equivalent to his universe's TOAA, but so is Beyonder and so is current LT, wasnt so before. There are about same power level, but Beyonder was an entire freakin multiverse, LT watcher over multiple multiverses at the moment.
Wait...so if Shuma absorbs the essence of a god that loses to him doesn't that mean he gets increasingly more powerful the further along the gauntlet? If so, Shuma's going to have his in-realm power PLUS the power of all those other gods surging through him, right? I can totally see Shuma stomping Galactus, Death, Eternity if he has the powers of all those before that point within himself.
This, but Shuma can still beat the list even without siphoning their own power
There is a reason why Shuma can not enter the multiversal sphere... He's simply too big.
Any extradimensional entity would have to use a representative manifestation form or an astral form just to take a peak and interact with it. Shuma-Gorath (Cyttorak, Beyonder etc...)
@I_am_Warlock: so,who powerful beyonder or AZathoth?or LT?
You will never got a 100% correct answer as we are talking about 2 beings from 2 completely different universe who have never met, and are never likely to meet. If i had to make my opinion similar level as LT rather than Beyonder, coz the latter is beyond multiversal concept.
AZ is equivalent to his universe's TOAA, but so is Beyonder and so is current LT, wasnt so before. There are about same power level, but Beyonder was an entire freakin multiverse, LT watcher over multiple multiverses at the moment.
by pure feats, Beyonder is the most powerful, no bias, i don't know Azathoth well, but i don't think he has feats like millions of times stronger than all the power in the multiverse combined including Molecule Man, LT, Eternity and others. and many other feats. not Azathoth nor current LT has shown feats of the same caliber.
If a being who possessed the power to literally destroy and recreate the universe couldn't destroy him, then neither can Odin.
Especially, when this is taking place in Gorath's home dimension. Odin gets bloodstomped.
Sise Neg wasn't at the end of his journey when he found Shuma so he wasn't a universe creator at that point. I've seen better feats from Odin. And Tom Brevoort of Marvel has even said that Odin is superior to the Phoenix Force.
If a being who possessed the power to literally destroy and recreate the universe couldn't destroy him, then neither can Odin.
Especially, when this is taking place in Gorath's home dimension. Odin gets bloodstomped.
Sise Neg wasn't at the end of his journey when he found Shuma so he wasn't a universe creator at that point. I've seen better feats from Odin. And Tom Brevoort of Marvel has even said that Odin is superior to the Phoenix Force.
He was near the end of his journey, accumulated enough magical energy to transcend the 3rd-dimensional plane, and became 'God'.
Even with all that energy, he couldn't simply destroy Shuma-Gorath, even OUTSIDE the Chaos Dimension.
"Tom Brevoort of Marvel has even said that Odin is superior to the Phoenix Force."
Odin had trouble with Thanos, Surtur and the Celestials. Shuma-Gorath and his Many Angled peers empowered a weapon made from the body of a Cancerverse Galactus that made Celestials look like ants. Brevoort's claim is inconsistent.
Meanwhile, the Phoenix Force gets blasted to piece by a Shi-Ar weapon, a planetary EMP, contained by Dormammu, shrugged off by Cyttorak, and possesses the very universal energies that Shuma-Gorath could easily exploit.
Any extradimensional entity would have to use a representative manifestation form or an astral form just to take a peak and interact with it. Shuma-Gorath (Cyttorak, Beyonder etc...)
Show us one canon explanation that says Shuma Gorath or any other extradimensional entity are too big for marvel multiverse, apart from PR Beyonder and Solorith.
What is it with people wanking extra-dimension as if it means anything special.
@TabithaCucumber said:
Sise Neg wasn't at the end of his journey when he found Shuma so he wasn't a universe creator at that point. I've seen better feats from Odin. And Tom Brevoort of Marvel has even said that Odin is superior to the Phoenix Force.
Odin could likely beat Phoenix Force without a host, as many beings have. Its vulnerable. With host, well i doubt it given what Jean with White Phoenix has done.
I dont like using Sise Neg's example to skipping that. Feat wise, lets look at Thanos Imperative, Glactus engine, stated to be less powerful than Gorath , alone fought a whole bunch of Celestials + Galactus and was winning.
Reason i used this feat more often is because, thats the first time Shuma Gorath without a PIS has gone up against cosmic heavy weight, and finally stopped dead in track after Lady Death intervened. As per Imperative, Shuma > Celestials and Galactus but less than a full bloodied Abstracts when they unleash their powers.
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