#101 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

@superbot400: what do you mean be *countered* exactly?

You have to admit that their classic version had insane feats and they haven't performed any of those feats in a long time. If some1 is gonna use Classic versions then it would be really great if they put it in the op but unfortunately these r the current versions.

So just because Hulk can lift a mountain, it means gravity won't affect him at all in any way? wow, so if he had the weight of a mountain on him he can fight normally as if there's nothing on his back? how come i find it hard to believe?

#102 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@superbot400: what do you mean be *countered* exactly?

You have to admit that their classic version had insane feats and they haven't performed any of those feats in a long time. If some1 is gonna use Classic versions then it would be really great if they put it in the op but unfortunately these r the current versions.

So just because Hulk can lift a mountain, it means gravity won't affect him at all in any way? wow, so if he had the weight of a mountain on him he can fight normally as if there's nothing on his back? how come i find it hard to believe?

Unless you're increasing his weight by an insane amount of gravity distortion, to the point of creating something to black hole, the Hulk should have no issues since he's just dealing with his own weight being multiplied - which for how insanely strong he is isn't much. The guy's a Flash that does squats I tell you - - -

#103 Posted by Shiryu (3595 posts) - - Show Bio

You should add Jotaro Kujo to the Shonen Jump Main Characters:

He might be able to help out greatly with Thor.

#104 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11276 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait Ichigo lost his Sword again,I thought he just got it back

Sorry I Drop Bleach awhile ago

Also we're are only using character in the Picture

and I'm editing Ichigo to be at the level shown in the picture

#105 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: I can't rly tell what's happening in that scan >.> the previous owner of the earth ring could create six mini *black holes* so i believe Tsuna could do it combined with his earth and sky flames but that's just speculation on my part and i guess it wouldn't be in character to do it. In the end, i think it would most likely end up with every shounen characters vs Thor. They're too fast and i haven't seen any good reaction feats of Thor so they could speedblitz him and land multiple mountain + on the right places.They could use energy beams, frog song,petrification,soul attacks etc. i believe it would be too much for Thor

#106 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: Lets not hop into the tsuna being FTL because he hopped away from the blackhole, that is hyperbolic at best

#107 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: dude, i never said he's FTL, i said he have FTL reaction/Striking speed

#108 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
#109 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio
#110 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait Ichigo lost his Sword again,I thought he just got it back

Sorry I Drop Bleach awhile ago

Also we're are only using character in the Picture

and I'm editing Ichigo to be at the level shown in the picture

It broke when he hacked his way out of an unbreakable cage. This time he needed to go to the guy who invented said reaper blades and he failed the challenge.

@isaac_clarke: I can't rly tell what's happening in that scan >.> the previous owner of the earth ring could create six mini *black holes* so i believe Tsuna could do it combined with his earth and sky flames but that's just speculation on my part and i guess it wouldn't be in character to do it. In the end, i think it would most likely end up with every shounen characters vs Thor. They're too fast and i haven't seen any good reaction feats of Thor so they could speedblitz him and land multiple mountain + on the right places.They could use energy beams, frog song,petrification,soul attacks etc. i believe it would be too much for Thor

He's quite honestly out-manuevering the Surfer last second and all he needs to do is command his hammer to release. Not to mention the lack of showings that prove that any of these characters could hurt the Hulk isn't lost on me, despite speed - it doesn't matter much if you don't have some sort of gimmic to put him down.

Glory was using Spiritual attacks on Thor, that didn't work. He ended up killing Glory using his own attack at him with 10x the force. If the petrification is based off actual heat, that won't work. Thor's simply sporting way too much heat resistance and if the Surfer can't hurt him with direct blasts - I have no idea how these characters would. Naruto has not ever used Frog Song, it's an exclusive to the toads and he isn't going to go completely out of character to summon them against Thor.

Which character here can spam mountain + attacks with the exception of Yosuke and that's a maybe? And why can't Thor counter them like he's done with multiple attacks from his opponents?

#111 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

Which character here can spam mountain + attacks with the exception of Yosuke and that's a maybe? And why can't Thor counter them like he's done with multiple attacks from his opponents?

So now you don't believe Yuske can spam Mountain busting attacks after the Vids I showed, Really?

Your just trying to put Yuske down now and defend Thor. Get real.

Also show me Thor reacting to Mach 30 Blasts shot from a guy he cannot perceive much less react too.

"Oh but he fought Silver Surfer" Which means **** when SS clearly is not fighting at Super Speeds and showing his move intentions before they happen. I seen the F4 dodge SS blast. They clearly do not compare in the speed of say Yuske's whos blast move faster than Sensui (Who is Mach 30+) can dodge. Thus all Thors showings are PIS really in any match vs SS who could out speed and blast him to Hela.

This Island is over 2 Miles in Length and those are legit size Mountains. The Blast Alone is Dwarfing that Island.

This is A Class Yuske. Not even the further power boost from becoming a S Class!

As Sensui prove S Class Power is too much for the Human Plane. Only the Under World and Dimension can withstand such power. Unleash from powering up would wreck the Earth.

Hell Sensui here shakes off a Blast design for S Classes. It registers as a Earthquake across Japan as Sensui flexes his Power to break out of a World Destroyer level Force field..

Hell King Yamma Power is so great that his Anger from the Spirit World causes 9.0 Earth Quakes in our world as well Volcanic Eruptions! That is his power reaching from the incredible durable Spirit Dimension into our lower Dimension!

So when was the last Time Thor tank 5-10 Mountain Busters in the face at Mach 30+? Or Thor flexed his muscles and threaten the destruction of Earth?

You got nothing to defend Thor against Yuske alone much less the rest of the Manga Team. Thor has lost to Red Hulk. PIS? Sure, but it happen. Yuske has never had a PIS moment to count against him. Whats Thors excuse? Just that, excuses. Thor MANY TIMES been beaten by lesser.

Yuske has never been beaten but once against another S Class Demon! Another World Breaker being. Thor Win Loss Record is far inferior.

#112 Edited by dum529001 (1634 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

There plenty of things consistent to every comic book character. The real question is , what is MORE consistent? Thor has shown greater reaction times and speed more than not.

We have to Judge this way because the characters' abilities are not allowed to be used 100 percent of the time for the sake of a story. Within comics, Allowing all battle to occur realistically, 100 percent of the time, would not leave readers uninterested, certain character dead and the comic book industry would end up gong out of business. This is the business of entertainment. It not all about letting things go as we know they should if it were a merciless, all-out battle.

Every characters has shown less than Superhuman ability for the stories but that is not the issue. The point is that Thor shown great Superhuman reaction speeds at supersonic and light-speed more than he has not.

Just because a feat is consistent does not mean its really an accurate display of a characters ablilties. All character are consistent jobbers, and victim of jobber aura. By that standard, Should you define solely based on that, then none can even be considered superhuman. And if we wnet by this standard, how would we judge since everyone is equally un-super? We couldn't.

Basing a character's power-level solely off of low showings, while ignoring the greater number of high showings is not what you'd call fair or honest debate.

We should avoid judging characters by a hypocritical, illogical standard and self-defeating standard.

Again, the issue is not which feats are consistent but which feats are MORE consistent.

#113 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001:

SINCE YOUR USING BIG LETTERS I WILL TOO!

There plenty of things consistent to every comic book character. The real question is , what is MORE consistent? Thor has shown greater reaction times and speed more than not.

No its really is not, Thor fights at normal speed 80% thru comics. Yuske fights at Hypersonic+ speed 100% thru the Mangas. Thor been blitz by street Levelers, Yuske been Blitz by Hyper Sonic City Busters to Planet Busters.

Big Difference

We have to Judge this way because the characters' abilities are not allowed to be used 100 percent of the time for the sake of a story. Within comics, Allowing all battle to occur realistically, 100 percent of the time, would not leave readers uninterested, certain character dead and the comic book industry would end up gong out of business. This is the business of entertainment. It not all about letting things go as we know they should if it were a merciless, all-out battle.

That is the down fall of defending a comics. What you said is a excuse, plain and simple! It is not my problem as a debator that comics make their characters look weaker and then stronger. It is not my problem they have inconsistent showings when AVERAGE out are over all lower than Yuske or half the Manga guys here. Not my problem!

Every characters has shown less than Superhuman ability for the stories but that is not the issue. The point is that Thor shown great Superhuman reaction speeds at supersonic and light-speed more than he has not.

The point and fact is he has sometimes shown it, then more often DOES NOT!

Just because a feat is consistent does not mean its really an accurate display of a characters ablilties. All character are consistent jobbers, and victim of jobber aura. By that standard, Should you define solely based on that, then none can even be considered superhuman. And if we wnet by this standard, how would we judge since everyone is equally un-super? We couldn't.

Not Yuske, which is why he is overall better. That is again the down fall of debating Comic Characters in Debates. Sorry if other Marvel Writers believe Red Hulk can own Thor. Not my problem!

Basing a character's power-level solely off of low showings, while ignoring the greater number of high showings is not what you'd call fair or honest debate.

I am going by average. Its all fun and game to pull out BS few and far in between High Ends that do not go along with over 70% other showings. Thats the fact that Fans do not want to hear.

We should avoid judging characters by a hypocritical, illogical standard and self-defeating standard.

Im just saying and debating with the FACTS and actual SHOWINGS of CONSISTENT weakness to Speed of Thor.

Again, the issue is not which feats are consistent but which feats are MOREconsistent.

No they really are not. Yuske always fighting at Hyper Sonic Speeds is consistent. Flash fighting at Hyper Sonic Speed is Consistent.

Thor every now and then show a seeming speed feat when blitzed by others more times as well NOT FIGHTING at Hyper Sonic Speed in over 90% of fights is Consistent Proof!

#114 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

The fight consisted primarily of talking, the destruction of small plateaus and them spam punching each other while staying in the same place. The only big blast Yusuke uses was intentionally large in his attempt to hit his opponent. And I was hearing how end of the series Yusuke was a planet buster, I haven't seen him spam planet busters.

I don't see how I am. And you keep saying it's because of Thor when I've made it clear I don't think these slew of characters have the showings to put the Hulk down, let alone Hyperion or Thor.

Sigh. Now Thor can't react to energy blasts despite doing so for decades.

Take special note of what happens when Thor stops twirling:

Notice him being completely embraced by said blast? Now look at him simply blocking said attack by putting Mjolnir in-front of it.

I'm not going to post scans of the Psi-Blast redirect against the Phoenix, despite those tending to be on the instantaneous / light-speed point of view because it is too old. I'll just run off his subsequent showings where the Surfer's blasts prove completely ineffective to tag Thor if he doesn't do it right in-front of him.

And the Surfer blasts have their own assortment of speed associated with them, whether he's blasting multiple objects at once or blasting individuals such as Beta Ray Bill while flying at Hyperspace speeds. But honestly, the one thing Thor has been doing consistently for years is defending himself from blasts of energy or psi blasts or blasts of whatever - to the extent that what-ever you claim about Thor, he's not going to get blasted by just any generic blast of energy unless writers really want him to - because most of the time he can knock them right out of his way.

That is the most consistent feature of the character, whether you like it or not.

You're trying to claim the Surfer's blasts are suddenly slower when fighting Thor when Beta Ray Bill was blocking them just the same while they where both chucking along Hyperspace by skuttlebutt the . : / I'm glad the Fantastic Four - point out to me in any of the scans of Yusuke blasting or dodging that states things are going at Mach 30. Because apparently that's a requirement in these type of threads now, because Yusuke clearly has some varying level at which he can fire his spirit gun or what have you.

Not to mention him maneuvering around the Silver Surfer in their fight is completely consistent with said Hammer out-pacing the Surfer to Thor when he called it back to him post death. Stop complaining about it, Thor can move fast with Mjolnir in tow.

Instead of saying that, can you prove it? As in not just posting a single scan out of context but all the ones relevant to that scene.

Does S - class do anything worth merit, because all you keep posting are scans of his A class. That's starting to make me thing he has GT syndrome.

So? Thor and Lokium killing the Fantastic Four / Spiderman resulting in a scene where Thor's literally wiped humanity off the map and needed Odin to turn the clock back.

Hell Thor was taking hits from Apocolypse in his younger days that was sending shock-waves for hundreds of miles:

And that was a younger, weaker Thor that Apocolypse was targeting with the purpose of killing Thor before he became the guy he was today. Bear in mind, he cleaves Apocolypse in half in their next encounter. It's not like Thor doesn't have a series of showings where he's doing insane amount of collateral damage in his past. : /

Hell Sensui here shakes off a Blast design for S Classes. It registers as a Earthquake across Japan as Sensui flexes his Power to break out of a World Destroyer level Force field..

Hell King Yamma Power is so great that his Anger from the Spirit World causes 9.0 Earth Quakes in our world as well Volcanic Eruptions! That is his power reaching from the incredible durable Spirit Dimension into our lower Dimension!

Why should be impressed by a host of showings that pale in comparison to the Hulk nearly sinking the Eastern Seaboard with his foot-steps or Skaar's 100-trillion ton punch? They made Earthquakes, wooptydoo. Just fighting Morg the Surfer was blowing up planets. Just fighting Stardust Bill was throwing heralds through planets effortlessly. Two of Thor's major fights in the last few years consisted of him fighting a being that was crushing planets with his bear hands or devouring them mid-fight.

When was the last time Yusuke actually fought a planet buster? When was the last time Yusuke's supposed equal was dead center of a planet buster or star going Nova? When was the last time he incinerated someone that had no issues being in the sun with a lightning bolt?

The only worth-while feat of strength that comes to mind from flexing was Thor and Herc throwing the planet out of orbit over an arm-wrestle.

The thing is I have, the problem is you don't care. From your perspective characters that can easily blast apart worlds are apparently pulling their blasting power for no reason. Apparently the fact he regularly fights with a green Goliath with an assortment of insane feats in the past 10 years and hurt him doesn't count. We could go back and forth all day and you're just going to insist Thor is more or less at the levels of Masterson for the sake of arguing he is. You know next to nothing of most of the shonen roster here so I have no idea why you keep talking about them like you do, it's dishonest.

Thor has lost to Red Hulk. PIS? Sure, but it happen. Yuske has never had a PIS moment to count against him. Whats Thors excuse? Just that, excuses. Thor MANY TIMES been beaten by lesser.

Yuske has never been beaten but once against another S Class Demon! Another World Breaker being. Thor Win Loss Record is far inferior.

Yusuke hasn't had poorly written showings so he's better? Cool, that is a smashingly good argument with absolutely no fault to point out.
For the sake of ending this argument: Current Hyperion solos, he's sporting durability to survive two universes emploding around him and he's a Superman rip off with Hulk like strength.
Yay thread over.
#115 Edited by xlab3000 (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

“For Haku, it’s possible to move between the mirrors at the speed of light. It’s impossible to see attacks send out from this literal light speed movement”

Haku flat out says that it’s impossible to follow his movement with your eyes (like in the databook).

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/45332-ShounenSuki-s-Databook-1-translations-(21-jutsu-5-characters-1-misc)

Even naruto Implying he moved at Mach 5 (genin speed)

#116 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke

The fight consisted primarily of talking, the destruction of small plateaus and them spam punching each other while staying in the same place. The only big blast Yusuke uses was intentionally large in his attempt to hit his opponent. And I was hearing how end of the series Yusuke was a planet buster, I haven't seen him spam planet busters.

So the answer is "yes, I ignore it all." Good to know. I showed his Blast lager than a Mile as well those "Plateus" the size of most Mountains in Italy and Greece!

The difference between Thor and Yuske in Planet Busting is we see the Statements and results from flexing their power in the Human World. Thor has NEVER been stated or shown a Planet Buster at all.

Also I never said he can Spam Planet Busters, again you failed to pay attention in this debate. I said he is a Mountain buster and his overall energy aura can destroy the planet. The Earth could not contain the power flexing of the Auro, they were force to fight in the Demon Plane where they could flex that power!

I don't see how I am. And you keep saying it's because of Thor when I've made it clear I don't think these slew of characters have the showings to put the Hulk down, let alone Hyperion or Thor.

Hyperion is not in the match. You again failed as a debater to remember the Vine Rules. If not stated who is fighting we go by picture.

Hmmmmm... nope know Hyperion. Good job.

Sigh. Now Thor can't react to energy blasts despite doing so for decades.

Take special note of what happens when Thor stops twirling:

Notice him being completely embraced by said blast? Now look at him simply blocking said attack by putting Mjolnir in-front of it.

All you show is Thor is too slow to dodge and has to swing his hammer like Cap uses his shield to defend from a attack that ANY Street Level guy can see coming.

Not speed feat.

Also the whole point of Thor tanking Destroyer blast, so what?! Destroyer Blast wreck Mountains now? Show me! I love to see that!

Both points fail.

I'm not going to post scans of the Psi-Blast redirect against the Phoenix, despite those tending to be on the instantaneous / light-speed point of view because it is too old. I'll just run off his subsequent showings where the Surfer's blasts prove completely ineffective to tag Thor if he doesn't do it right in-front of him.

Good Job, lets post SS moving at what appears normal speed, making a hand movemnet, and Thor seeing this like Captain America would, side step. Good feat!

And the Surfer blasts have their own assortment of speed associated with them, whether he's blasting multiple objects at once or blasting individuals such as Beta Ray Bill while flying at Hyperspace speeds. But honestly, the one thing Thor has been doing consistently for years is defending himself from blasts of energy or psi blasts or blasts of whatever - to the extent that what-ever you claim about Thor, he's not going to get blasted by just any generic blast of energy unless writers really want him to - because most of the time he can knock them right out of his way.

That is the most consistent feature of the character, whether you like it or not.

Except Thor sees every attack of blast coming. He has time to react because of the slow hand motions and peak human speeds of a attack about to happen. Just because the Blast is Light speed, does not mean the attack is when the person wielding it is not using ANY SUPER SPEED noted or shown.

You're trying to claim the Surfer's blasts are suddenly slower when fighting Thor when Beta Ray Bill was blocking them just the same while they where both chucking along Hyperspace by skuttlebutt the . : / I'm glad the Fantastic Four - point out to me in any of the scans of Yusuke blasting or dodging that states things are going at Mach 30. Because apparently that's a requirement in these type of threads now, because Yusuke clearly has some varying level at which he can fire his spirit gun or what have you.

Not to mention him maneuvering around the Silver Surfer in their fight is completely consistent with said Hammer out-pacing the Surfer to Thor when he called it back to him post death. Stop complaining about it, Thor can move fast with Mjolnir in tow.

Again you fail at addressing my main point. You cannot defend from what you cannot PERCEIVE. Simple fact of real world life guy.

Here is a demonstration.

Thor sees Yuske, as well 99% of his foes in ALL your Showings!

Thor vs Yuske while Yuske using his CONSISTENT Speed.

That is my point that ALL your scan fail to address!

Instead of saying that, can you prove it? As in not just posting a single scan out of context but all the ones relevant to that scene.

What Context you want? The scan is a Spirit gun the size of the Island. You fail to use your eyes now? Yuske made a Blast to prove he can one shot Toguro. It flew out to sea. What is SO HARD To understand here?

Or do you wish to say that showing from a WEAKER Yuske is no proof of the CLEARLY drawn Spirit blast becoming larger than the island.

Right.....

Does S - class do anything worth merit, because all you keep posting are scans of his A class. That's starting to make me thing he has GT syndrome.

I kinda showed it and again you ignore it? LOL Your hopeless in a worthwhile debate. I showed what S Class means. It Means you have the power to destroy earth with your Aura Energy alone.

I showed how battles in another dimension cause 9.0 Earthquakes on Earth as well Volcanic eruptions. Stop ignoring the facts that make your hopeless defense of Thor look bad.

So? Thor and Lokium killing the Fantastic Four / Spiderman resulting in a scene where Thor's literally wiped humanity off the map and needed Odin to turn the clock back.

Hell Thor was taking hits from Apocolypse in his younger days that was sending shock-waves for hundreds of miles:

And that was a younger, weaker Thor that Apocolypse was targeting with the purpose of killing Thor before he became the guy he was today. Bear in mind, he cleaves Apocolypse in half in their next encounter. It's not like Thor doesn't have a series of showings where he's doing insane amount of collateral damage in his past. : /

All you showed was Thor wiped out mankind, yet the earth is intact. Then does the same feat as a weaker S Class Sensui. All you shown is Thor strength is on par with Sensui who Yuske decimated.

Why should be impressed by a host of showings that pale in comparison to the Hulk nearly sinking the Eastern Seaboard with his foot-steps or Skaar's 100-trillion ton punch? They made Earthquakes, wooptydoo. Just fighting Morg the Surfer was blowing up planets. Just fighting Stardust Bill was throwing heralds through planets effortlessly. Two of Thor's major fights in the last few years consisted of him fighting a being that was crushing planets with his bear hands or devouring them mid-fight.

Maybe because Yamma and Sensui are proven inferior to Yuske power and that Yamma did his feat from another Dimension. He breach Dimensions in power.

Dimension Breaching Power >>>> Eastern Sea bored. You really think Easter Sea bored fest is better? LMAO!

Then you make the mistake of comparing Morg and SS taking out planets to relate to .... what? Thor? SS has far superior feats to Thor in every way. Any battle with SS holding back vs a all out Thor proves how Inferior Thor is to SS. Get over it.

When was the last time Yusuke actually fought a planet buster? When was the last time Yusuke's supposed equal was dead center of a planet buster or star going Nova? When was the last time he incinerated someone that had no issues being in the sun with a lightning bolt?

Yuske fought a few in the 3 Kings Saga as well Sensui in Chapter Black. So yeah.

The only worth-while feat of strength that comes to mind from flexing was Thor and Herc throwing the planet out of orbit over an arm-wrestle.

Threw the planet out of whack. LOLOLOLOL and I guess Herc Holding up the Universe for Atlas was true huh!

What a poor choice of feat to use. If they did that Earth and all mankind would have Flash Freeze and died from mass Earthquakes. Get real.

You sound like Thor could beat Flash the way you try to defend your stance on Thor. Thor limits is Speed in the High Tier Battles.
The thing is I have, the problem is you don't care. From your perspective characters that can easily blast apart worlds are apparently pulling their blasting power for no reason. Apparently the fact he regularly fights with a green Goliath with an assortment of insane feats in the past 10 years and hurt him doesn't count. We could go back and forth all day and you're just going to insist Thor is more or less at the levels of Masterson for the sake of arguing he is. You know next to nothing of most of the shonen roster here so I have no idea why you keep talking about them like you do, it's dishonest.
You sound like Thor could beat Flash the way you try to defend your stance on Thor. Thor limits is Speed in the High Tier Battles.
The thing is I have, the problem is you don't care. From your perspective characters that can easily blast apart worlds are apparently pulling their blasting power for no reason. Apparently the fact he regularly fights with a green Goliath with an assortment of insane feats in the past 10 years and hurt him doesn't count. We could go back and forth all day and you're just going to insist Thor is more or less at the levels of Masterson for the sake of arguing he is. You know next to nothing of most of the shonen roster here so I have no idea why you keep talking about them like you do, it's dishonest.
LOL What? Hell No Thor is Below Herald but way above Hulk overall. Thor is Thor. He has the ability to outright beat Yuske.... if he had the Speed which is my whole point.
Problem is your post have never adress this point becuase fact is Thor cannot counter Yuske Speed or take the Punishement Yuske can dish out in a split second.
Also you keep mentioning Hyperion in this battle. He is not! Quit acting Desperate for a Avenger win!
#117 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Those plateaus aren't close to mountain size outside maybe height. Outside that they're pillars of rock. The fight Ichigo had with Grimmjaw was more impressive.

@cadencev2 said:

"PLANET KILLERS AND WORLD BREAKERS" - the narration is referring to Thor, Hyperion and the Hulk. Given Hyperion was able to hold two planets, till the point before they are crushed around him - it's a good bet that he has the power to destroy worlds as far as Hickman is concerned. Thor and the Hulk are on the same boat, the Hulk having torn apart planets in that time-loop over and over. Thor I guess can't bust planets like Bill, he just fights planet busters over and over. : /

@cadencev2 said:

I'm referring to what people kept arguing on Vice not too far back. And you're just saying he's a character that can cause planetary destruction with a flex. It's more hyperbole.

@cadencev2 said:

Read the battle forum rules and then read the OP. I've already posted an answer to that completely baseless argument.

@thatguywithheadphones said:

No Prep

Most Modern Incarnation/End of Series Strength

Standard Gear

Fight to K.o(s)

In character

Which team wins

I'm running under the assumption that most modern incarnation meansmost modern incarnation. I don't know the battle forum rules?

Be Specific About Fights

When these things are left out it’s generally assumed that characters are fighting to the best of their ability but still within the limits of their personality, using their standard gear, have no prep time, and are their current mainstream versions. Their starting distance is close and the setting is most often a city. Without any specifications to a battle, those are what we go by. It’s always best to give as much information about the fight in the first post.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/battle-forum-rules-please-read-for-more-informatio-675391/

There was no one explicitly stated for the Avengers roster, the image itself is left ambiguous given that isn't the completely Avengers roster currently operating in the actual book of Avengers. Now if you were actually reading Hickman's Avengers you would know this, pretending Hyperion isn't on the Avengers or not in this thread quite literally using the OP's picture as a bench mark is dishonest. Following the directions in the OP, we're running with the most current / modern Avengers Roster. Going by the battle forum rules, we're going by the most modern / recent version of the Avengers roster.

If I'm breaking any rules or am not correct - follow the link and quote the rules that aren't being followed. Stop pretending I'm not following the rules, unlike yourself.

@cadencev2 said:

All you show is Thor is too slow to dodge and has to swing his hammer like Cap uses his shield to defend from a attack that ANY Street Level guy can see coming. Not speed feat.

Also the whole point of Thor tanking Destroyer blast, so what?! Destroyer Blast wreck Mountains now? Show me! I love to see that! Both points fail.

You realize those street levelers have to react to what they're defending themselves from right? What I'm depicting is how fast the Visor Blast is for example in that scan and that Thor himself is reacting to it to defend himself. Same with the Surfer's attack. I'm not using those specific showings as speed feats, feel free to actually read my post competently. I don't want to fill in the blanks or make a coloring book so you can understand my points.

@cadencev2 said:

Good Job, lets post SS moving at what appears normal speed, making a hand movemnet, and Thor seeing this like Captain America would, side step. Good feat!

What the devil are you talking about? The Silver Surfer is responding to Thor having just blind-sided him with a hammer toss and blasting Thor who defends. He's on the ground, he isn't moving and the scene is going left to right in terms of action. He stops blasting after he realizes the futility. The action is happening from left to right, quite honestly stop trolling.

@cadencev2 said:

Except Thor sees every attack of blast coming. He has time to react because of the slow hand motions and peak human speeds of a attack about to happen. Just because the Blast is Light speed, does not mean the attack is when the person wielding it is not using ANY SUPER SPEED noted or shown.

You are either being intentionally oblivious to the context of the scene or simply refuse to acknowledge it. Thor was given no warning:

View scans from right to left

Notice how the Surfer has been knocked onto the ground and then blasted the surfer? Read the scans from left to right so you don't confuse yourself with Manga / Comic action in America.

@cadencev2 said:

Again you fail at addressing my main point. You cannot defend from what you cannot PERCEIVE. Simple fact of real world life guy.Here is a demonstration. Thor sees Yuske, as well 99% of his foes in ALL your Showings!Thor vs Yuske while Yuske using his CONSISTENT Speed.That is my point that ALL your scan fail to address!

He had absolutely no issue tracking Ego and seeing him moving at FTL speeds. He's had absolutely no issue reacting to or perceiving blasts of energy being blasted at him. Don't start muttering nonsense about traveling speed where apparently Thor is able to process things more quickly in space and not with his vision. Same with this nonsense that everyone apparently moves really slowly and makes it really obvious where the attack is going to be. And he's have no issue having his hammer strike an opponent when he hurls it fast enough to strike them.

Quite honestly, Thor apparently has amazing processing power in space, but it's gone on foot. And those scans make no confirmation to how fast any of those blasts Yusuke's fired or dodged - which is kinda the point of me asking since it's your logic.

@cadencev2 said:

Thor sees Yuske, as well 99% of his foes in ALL your Showings!

Thor vs Yuske while Yuske using his CONSISTENT Speed.

That is my point that ALL your scan fail to address!

Congradulations, Yusuke pulled a Dare Devil and Wolverine. It's not like we haven't see just about every melee fighter in comics pulling the exact same feat:

The whole disappearing or instant appearance in another space isn't at all unique to Yusuke and it's an incredibly common feat for Marvel's street level. Even Thor's pulled it off.

@cadencev2 said:

What Context you want? The scan is a Spirit gun the size of the Island. You fail to use your eyes now? Yuske made a Blast to prove he can one shot Toguro. It flew out to sea. What is SO HARD To understand here? Or do you wish to say that showing from a WEAKER Yuske is no proof of the CLEARLY drawn Spirit blast becoming larger than the island.Right.....

Evidence the island is as big as you say it is. Which is a common issue with you're posts since they have a bad penchant for ignoring the context of almost everything you do post.

@cadencev2 said:

I kinda showed it and again you ignore it? LOL Your hopeless in a worthwhile debate. I showed what S Class means. It Means you have the power to destroy earth with your Aura Energy alone.

I showed how battles in another dimension cause 9.0 Earthquakes on Earth as well Volcanic eruptions. Stop ignoring the facts that make your hopeless defense of Thor look bad.

You keep yammering on about S - Class and posting A - Class feats. If he can destroy the planet with his aura - prove it. Don't tell me about it, don't give me hyperbole about it. If Yusuke is a planet buster, I want to see evidence for it. Like you know busting something more than small mountains. Causing Earth quakes or Volcanic eruptions isn't close to planet busting out-put.

@cadencev2 said:

All you showed was Thor wiped out mankind, yet the earth is intact. Then does the same feat as a weaker S Class Sensui. All you shown is Thor strength is on par with Sensui who Yuske decimated.

It's a showing where Thor decimates humanity when he wasn't in check. You haven't shown anything akin to that and pretending otherwise is dishonest.
@cadencev2 said:

Maybe because Yamma and Sensui are proven inferior to Yuske power and that Yamma did his feat from another Dimension. He breach Dimensions in power.

So Yusuke's power < Thor's fingers? Neat.
Right to left
Abstract feats that mean nothing on the battle forums are fun to mention right?
@cadencev2 said:

Dimension Breaching Power >>>> Eastern Sea bored. You really think Easter Sea bored fest is better? LMAO!

Then you make the mistake of comparing Morg and SS taking out planets to relate to .... what? Thor? SS has far superior feats to Thor in every way. Any battle with SS holding back vs a all out Thor proves how Inferior Thor is to SS. Get over it.

I have no idea why you are trying to relate the Hulk's foot-steps sinking the eastern seaboard to Yusuke's "breaching dimension power". It relates to the power of Thor's opponents.
The fun fact is you're claiming the Surfer is holding back and Thor's the one sporting the critical wound that kills him later - that is causing him godly amount of pain during that fight. And he's still denting the Silver Surfer's skull with a headbutt and hitting him with a hammer that hurts Galactus = the Surfer is totally holding back and is completely immune to Thor's assault. Brilliant argument.
@cadencev2 said:

Yuske fought a few in the 3 Kings Saga as well Sensui in Chapter Black. So yeah.

Show me them busting planets. Show me anyone in Yu Yu Hakasho busting planets.
@cadencev2 said:

Threw the planet out of whack. LOLOLOLOL and I guess Herc Holding up the Universe for Atlas was true huh!

What a poor choice of feat to use. If they did that Earth and all mankind would have Flash Freeze and died from mass Earthquakes. Get real.

Difference was that was a flash-back told by Hercules as I recall of his exaggerated feats of strength as a demi-god based off his labors. The other actually happened. But nice try.
That didn't happen on Earth.

@cadencev2 said:

You sound like Thor could beat Flash the way you try to defend your stance on Thor. Thor limits is Speed in the High Tier Battles.

LOL What? Hell No Thor is Below Herald but way above Hulk overall. Thor is Thor. He has the ability to outright beat Yuske.... if he had the Speed which is my whole point.
Problem is your post have never adress this point becuase fact is Thor cannot counter Yuske Speed or take the Punishement Yuske can dish out in a split second.
Also you keep mentioning Hyperion in this battle. He is not! Quit acting Desperate for a Avenger win!

The Flash would beat everyone here and stomp the Manga-team to high- heaven. How about you stop putting words in my mouth and actually debate. Try reading my posts and actually posting things that are relevant. The guy that has fought almost every herald to date is the guy that is below herald - especially from the Silver Surfer's own lips sporting mallet of superior power to his power cosmic. Seems legit.
Read the battle forum rules and then come back to me. Hyperion is fair game, find a rule or a part of the OP that disagrees. It's petty argument after petty argument thus far, with idiotic taunts that only make you look childish. If you're writing LOL more than once, when something that doesn't actually read as remotely funny - you're putting a pointless emphasis to provoke some measure of anger on my part.
Call me when Yusuke fights guys like this. Whose destroying the moons / planets of everything around him.

#118 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: Im so tired of putting your sad arguments down.

1) You have no answer to the Speed Advantage of the team.

2) You wish to throw in Hyperion, showed the rules and blah blah yet the point of the rules is OP said Avenegrs Team. He Posted a Picture of those Avengers. He never stated which members. BY YOUR LOGIC of following the Rules ANYONE WHO HOLDS A AVENGERS CARD (Half of Marvel Earth) is in this fight. Your bending the rules to add in Hyperion. gtfo.

3) Your just not worth my time. In the future it might be best to ignore eachother. All you do is spout the same crap over again and Claim Hyperbole on my facts when I showed the proof of Dimension Crossing Power, (.0 Earthquakes, and the Human World Shuddering under restrain Power.

Just dont talk to me no more. Ever again preferably.

#119 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (25198 posts) - - Show Bio

As always Isaac is debating like a boss.

#120 Edited by GonnaRain (752 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys the OP said already that each roster consists of the characters depicted in the picture. So no Hyperion.

@thatguywithheadphones said:

Wait Ichigo lost his Sword again,I thought he just got it back

Sorry I Drop Bleach awhile ago

Also we're are only using character in the Picture

and I'm editing Ichigo to be at the level shown in the picture

Also, I'm not entirely sure, but is current Tsuna still capable of manipulating gravity? Because IIRC he was using Enma's flame then, so it isn't exactly in Tsuna's capabilities to do so every time he likes.

Also, Yoh could probably fill that part, since the Spirit of Earth can manipulate gravity, and if I remember well he was able to defend himself and his team mates from a black hole using that same ability.

#121 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: Im so tired of putting your sad arguments down.

1) You have no answer to the Speed Advantage of the team.

2) You wish to throw in Hyperion, showed the rules and blah blah yet the point of the rules is OP said Avenegrs Team. He Posted a Picture of those Avengers. He never stated which members. BY YOUR LOGIC of following the Rules ANYONE WHO HOLDS A AVENGERS CARD (Half of Marvel Earth) is in this fight. Your bending the rules to add in Hyperion. gtfo.

3) Your just not worth my time. In the future it might be best to ignore eachother. All you do is spout the same crap over again and Claim Hyperbole on my facts when I showed the proof of Dimension Crossing Power, (.0 Earthquakes, and the Human World Shuddering under restrain Power.

Just dont talk to me no more. Ever again preferably.

  • You came into this thread announcing how Iron Man has never tanked a nuke. I pointed out an instance where he tanks multiple nukes exploding around him, providing scans. You denied it and moved on saying you disproved it without posting anything or even saying anything outside it not being the case.
  • You then decided to use a slew of Masterson scans as being interchangeable for Thor. You argued Thor has issues with 80 tonners (the Hulk).. You rated him below the heralds of Galactus, but significantly more powerful that the Hulk. And suddenly Beta Ray Bill > Thor and completely ignored Thor by some miracle can fight planet busters, over and over and win. Trying to argue everyone he fights pulls their punches, or blasts and apparently the Silver Surfer is superior in EVERY way despite that not being the case.
  • You undermined the Hulk for no reason. The Hulk no-show tanks attacks that would have killed everyone on team Manga and you start talking about dimensional abstract nonsense. And I'm actually familiar with these characters to say that is true.
  • Suddenly every S - Rank character is interchangeable with Yusuke, and they're all planet busters without busting a single planet. That abstract dimension crossing nonsense is a feat or erupting volcanoes / Earthquakes are a place-holder for actually busting a planet or how incredibly small plateaus are larger than mountains in Greece / Italy.

1) The Hulk's, Hyperion's and Thor's durability. The fact Thor can have his hammer tag them all on auto-pilot and he's had absolutely no issue perceiving things in space moving at FTL or defending himself from blasts of energy throughout decades.

2) Read the battle-forum rules. Then read the OP. You are arguing against the rules in the OP and on the Battle-Forum's rules page. I've provided a link - educate yourself.

3) Define how powerful a character has to be to "dimension cross" because you're just throwing completely pointless feats in favor of trying to argue something

Point out to me where it's explicitly said which Avengers are being used or my fault in pointing out the forums rules twice to you to find flaw with what I'm saying. Repeating over and over again that Hyperion is hands off despite being a main member of the current roster just asking

The entire debate consists of off-hand insults on your part and complete denial of showings as you try to undermine them with nonsensical arguments - while providing nothing of significance when asked. It's ridiculous, but expect me to comment again if I see you posting plainly inaccurate things that show very little knowledge of the character's you're arguing with.

#122 Posted by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys the OP said already that each roster consists of the characters depicted in the picture. So no Hyperion.

@thatguywithheadphones said:

Wait Ichigo lost his Sword again,I thought he just got it back

Sorry I Drop Bleach awhile ago

Also we're are only using character in the Picture

and I'm editing Ichigo to be at the level shown in the picture

Also, I'm not entirely sure, but is current Tsuna still capable of manipulating gravity? Because IIRC he was using Enma's flame then, so it isn't exactly in Tsuna's capabilities to do so every time he likes.

Also, Yoh could probably fill that part, since the Spirit of Earth can manipulate gravity, and if I remember well he was able to defend himself and his team mates from a black hole using that same ability.

hmm don't feel like butting in their *arguement* >.>

well, i asked the op about that in the first page and he said we're using Tsuna with every gear and power ups.

i acually didn't know Yoh could do that. wonder what would happen if two gravity manipulators used it.

#123 Edited by GonnaRain (752 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14 said:

@gonnarain said:

Guys the OP said already that each roster consists of the characters depicted in the picture. So no Hyperion.

@thatguywithheadphones said:

Wait Ichigo lost his Sword again,I thought he just got it back

Sorry I Drop Bleach awhile ago

Also we're are only using character in the Picture

and I'm editing Ichigo to be at the level shown in the picture

Also, I'm not entirely sure, but is current Tsuna still capable of manipulating gravity? Because IIRC he was using Enma's flame then, so it isn't exactly in Tsuna's capabilities to do so every time he likes.

Also, Yoh could probably fill that part, since the Spirit of Earth can manipulate gravity, and if I remember well he was able to defend himself and his team mates from a black hole using that same ability.

hmm don't feel like butting in their *arguement* >.>

well, i asked the op about that in the first page and he said we're using Tsuna with every gear and power ups.

i acually didn't know Yoh could do that. wonder what would happen if two gravity manipulators used it.

Haha, me neither to be honest. I just wanted to clarify that the OP already spoke about the matter.

Anyways, yeah, Yoh with the Spirit of Earth is capable of manipulating gravity, and since it seems that Yoh kept the SoE even after the events of Mu (as shown in some flash backs in Shaman King Flowers or whatever the manga name was), he could use it in this fight as well.

#124 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

is it something Thor does consistently? sry if i'm wrong but didn't Silver Surfer get tagged by the thing Namor,Hulk,spiderman and Black Panther etc?

While his travel speed is light speed, i can't say the same for his reaction speed. and how well can he control his speed in short bursts?

I believe spiderman also dodged Thor's hammer recently.

Didn't i already post about this in the previous page?meh, like i said b4 Tsuna's sky flame is not ordinary flames, it's kinda like ki,reiatsu,haki,chakra and stuff like that so it's no ordinary flame and no, he's not using heat to turn his foes into stones.His cloak have the ability to petrify and nullifies incoming attacks and enemies.he could also use zero point breakthrough.

i imagine it wouldn't go any different than this, not that i'm saying Tsuna's equal or more powerful than Dorammu ofc not

#125 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14: Concerning 2 of your points silver surfer allowed black panther to put him in a choke hold according to the writer and in ends of the earth (which is where spider-man dodged the hammer) thor was holding back as much as he could and resisting otto's mind control. So it is likely he didn't throw it as hard as he could.

I have no opinion on this fight as I don't know much about the shounen jump team I am just throwing that out there.

#126 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@theorder14 said:

@isaac_clarke:

is it something Thor does consistently? sry if i'm wrong but didn't Silver Surfer get tagged by the thing Namor,Hulk,spiderman and Black Panther etc?

I'm referring to Thor defending himself from energy assaults from his opponents. Everyone mentioned, including the Hulk to physically can't hurt the Surfer significantly for him to warrant dodging most of the time. Although Black Panther built a plot device to steal some of his power cosmic and with a lot of bad writing was able to immobilize him by squeezing on his wind-pipe, the thing he doesn't use to breath. Apparently McDuffie, the writer at the time said he was faking it - but it was just bad writing.

@theorder14 said:

His travel speed is FTL - as in he can toss his hammer from Earth to the furthest part of the galaxy and have it return in just over 60 seconds, which at the very least is very FTL. It's consistent with how he gets around in the universe within a couple of hours at the most on his cosmic journey's.

You mean his bullrush? I haven't seen him miss anyone yet with one. It's more accurate than his usual Mjolnir toss at street-levelers to be honest.

@theorder14 said:

This is canon:

Thor's tossed his hammer faster than Spiderman's spider-sense could react to and as a result ended up killing him in space.

From how I understood you're post you tried to say the pretification wasn't magical - which reads off as him using heat to petrify his opponents.

That particular character is actually really powerful - kind of a hard choice to compare to many non-magical reality warpers.

#127 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: okay ty, i haven't rly read much about SS

i didn't mean ends of the earth, i meant this one

but ofc he's not going all-out here

#128 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: okay ty, i haven't rly read much about SS

i didn't mean ends of the earth, i meant this one

but ofc he's not going all-out here

So has Red Skull in Uncanny Avengers, the thing is Thor doesn't throw his hammer at the same speeds. Realistically if he's throwing it as hard as he did as Star-Brand for example, Spiderman wouldn't have dodged.

#129 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000 said:

@isaac_clarke:

“For Haku, it’s possible to move between the mirrors at the speed of light. It’s impossible to see attacks send out from this literal light speed movement”

Haku flat out says that it’s impossible to follow his movement with your eyes (like in the databook).

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/45332-ShounenSuki-s-Databook-1-translations-(21-jutsu-5-characters-1-misc)

Even naruto Implying he moved at Mach 5 (genin speed)

Why are you using showings for Naruto from that time period (although not Mach 5 fast)? He's much faster now.

#130 Posted by xlab3000 (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: I using canon sources to back up that the shounen team would win

#131 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: can't quote for some reaon so it might get messy.

Mjolnir didn't even tag him and it's spiderman who put himself in that situation. webbing Mjolnir lol

in superior spiderman issue 1, otto had trouble with a speedster (didn't even go FTL) and spider sense couldn't keep up with him so it's no wonder spiderman couldn't avoid it.

shounen characters r hyper sonic in combat speed and two of them even have precog. one of them have FTL reflexes/dodging/striking speed so i wouldn't compare them to Spiderman lols.

correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Thor admit that some street lvls r faster than him?at least i'm sure he admitted wolverine is faster than him.

i rather go with consistent showings so can u maybe show me some scans of current Thor in character throwing a FTL homing Mjlonir against some1 who have FTL reaction speed with precog?

yea, in my opinion, i doubt Thor could handle speedblitz and multiple mountain + with clean hits (imagine a mounatin + between the legs jk) + Their techniques like i mentioned before. petrification,,zero point breakthrough,vg,shamanic spells,food honor etc would prove to be too much. there's also two gravity manipulators and one could inverse a black hole.

I know Thor's FTL in travel speed with Mjolnir but he obviously can't control that speed in combat in short bursts like Tsuna and Ichigo

note that this is early/mid series Tsuna without any of his major gears and power boost speed/reflexes

I believe u already have seen this so i guess i don't have to say he's alot faster in the picture op posted

#132 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke: can't quote for some reaon so it might get messy.

Mjolnir didn't even tag him and it's spiderman who put himself in that situation. webbing Mjolnir lol

We'll there are few things to mention:

  1. Mjolnir's speed is not static. What we're talking about is if Thor's actually chucking the thing at the speeds it can go, rather than his occasional toss at a bank-robber speeds on Earth.
  2. Mjolnir is still in Thor's hand. As soon as he chucks it, Spiderman lacks the reaction time to just let go of his web before being thrown into orbit - there is a clear indication that his spider-sense went off, but that wasn't until he was already thrown into orbit.
  3. The Hulk has been able to grab a-hold of Spiderman. Just about every brick out there has, or they at the very least inevitably hit him. The best example that comes to mind is when he tried to Blitz Hercules and was swatted away like a fly, pun intended.

in superior spiderman issue 1, otto had trouble with a speedster (didn't even go FTL) and spider sense couldn't keep up with him so it's no wonder spiderman couldn't avoid it.

That has even less to do with Mjolnir.

shounen characters r hyper sonic in combat speed and two of them even have precog. one of them have FTL reflexes/dodging/striking speed so i wouldn't compare them to Spiderman lols.

You are continuing to ignore that Thor's hammer doesn't go at FTL everytime it leaves his fingers and he does in-fact hold back considerably when he does toss it. If he had thrown it as fast / hard as he did against Starbrand it would have hit Spiderman.

correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Thor admit that some street lvls r faster than him?at least i'm sure he admitted wolverine is faster than him.

He did, in the comic called "Wolverine vs Thor" which took a number of liberties in regards to Thor's overall power to make that fight not entirely one-sided. At other times he has fought both the Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock at the same time, who where mentioning how he was as fast as the lightning he commands. But every-time I hear about Wolverine vs Thor as some sort of ground-work for how Thor's slow I'm either brought to the image of Daken being flash-fried by Thor's lighting and Wolverine on the same boat not burning a hair - either Wolverine's stats were upped to insane proportions during that fight or Thor's just went painfully down to make it interesting:

Thor from "Thor vs Wolverine" is slower than Wolverine, however with the emphasis not being on the two of them doing the standard super-hero pissing contest - the context is generally going to be more akin to above or below:

This is Wolverine's son Daken, healing factor and all, getting hit by one of Thor's lightning bolts. So perhaps using a fight where Wolverine does more damage to Thor than the Silver Surfer as a benchmark for Thor isn't the best idea in the argument.

i rather go with consistent showings so can u maybe show me some scans of current Thor in character throwing a FTL homing Mjlonir against some1 who have FTL reaction speed with precog?

No one here is faster than light and is sporting pre-cog and the issue is Thor can throw his hammer at speeds insanely faster than just twice the speed of light. The Silver Surfer quite honestly in the Annihilators was sporting pre-cog (in the sense he could perceive time in a way that he could predict the happenings about to befall his team) and Thor had no issue hitting him at all in their book or running RIGHT around him to hit Galactus before the Surfer does a FTL Bullrush to slam the Thor into Mars. Thor's reaction was he didn't feel a thing.

yea, in my opinion, i doubt Thor could handle speedblitz and multiple mountain + with clean hits (imagine a mounatin + between the legs jk) + Their techniques like i mentioned before. petrification,,zero point breakthrough,vg,shamanic spells,food honor etc would prove to be too much. there's also two gravity manipulators and one could inverse a black hole.

That's nice but Thor's already cruised right into the event horizon of a black hole to save Rulk and has had absolutely no issues with gravity despite being dead in-front or inside the son on occasion. He's quite honestly going to move INTO the sun in the future to be a god cop.

I know Thor's FTL in travel speed with Mjolnir but he obviously can't control that speed in combat in short bursts like Tsuna and Ichigo

Since when? He had no issues cruising right past the Surfer at high speed and the Surfer's a character that can visually search the planet for single individual's when Strange's magic couldn't locate them before Strange could finish a sentence. In Pak's run the Surfer cruised around the globe while everyone was completely unaware of his presence as he watched them.

note that this is early/mid series Tsuna without any of his major gears and power boost speed/reflexes

I'm not sure what you want me to see here, a lot of this is just street level kind of stuff that are in Dare Devil's or Wolverine's playbook.

I believe u already have seen this so i guess i don't have to say he's alot faster in the picture op posted

Ichigo wasn't a lot faster, unless he puts on his Hollow mask. The guy saw little to no training since his stand-off with Byakuya outside learning to use his Hollow Powers.

@xlab3000 said:

@isaac_clarke: I using canon sources to back up that the shounen team would win

But I don't see why there is any merit in posting scans from his fights way back when he fought Haku (Sasuke's flames were tagging Haku without issue). Nor some off-hand comment about running over to meet people at mach 5. Quite honestly, current Naruto has WAY better feats.

#133 Edited by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

yes, i do know that Thor doesn't always toss Mjolnir in light speed but that doesn't change the fact that the *speedsters* r alot faster than Spiderman. My point was that Spider sense couldn't even keep up with that speedster so i wouldn't compare him with the shounen characters.

Haven't Thor been called slow a few times by street levels? i believe even captain america called thor slow and it's consistent that he have gotten tagged by street levels.

I still haven't seen a single good reaction scan from current Thor and so far, u have only mentioned him hanging with Silver Surfer who have gotten tagged countless times by street levels. u said he doesn't need to avoid it but he sure looks like he doesn't enjoy getting punched so i don't understand why he just won't dodge lol.

How fast did Thor bullrush there? shounen characters clearly have superior speed and reaction then Dakon so i'm not surprised Thor could blitz him.

In the end, i believe it's too much for Thor. They have various power sources with too many abilities that would be useful in many ways.Petrification,zero point, spells, demonic energy beams and many more.

Anyways, it seems we're going back and forth and we see things differently(obviously since u do not have full knowledge of the characters) so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

#134 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

yes, i do know that Thor doesn't always toss Mjolnir in light speed but that doesn't change the fact that the *speedsters* r alot faster than Spiderman. My point was that Spider sense couldn't even keep up with that speedster so i wouldn't compare him with the shounen characters.

Haven't Thor been called slow a few times by street levels? i believe even captain america called thor slow and it's consistent that he have gotten tagged by street levels.

I still haven't seen a single good reaction scan from current Thor and so far, u have only mentioned him hanging with Silver Surfer who have gotten tagged countless times by street levels. u said he doesn't need to avoid it but he sure looks like he doesn't enjoy getting punched so i don't understand why he just won't dodge lol.

How fast did Thor bullrush there? shounen characters clearly have superior speed and reaction then Dakon so i'm not surprised Thor could blitz him.

In the end, i believe it's too much for Thor. They have various power sources with too many abilities that would be useful in many ways.Petrification,zero point, spells, demonic energy beams and many more.

Anyways, it seems we're going back and forth and we see things differently so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Spiderman himself is actually really fast. It's not about keeping up with a speedster bit, it's the whole toss so fast that even the Spider Sense going off didn't allow Pete to let go. Captain America told Thunderstrike when he was calling himself a dork for getting hit by those balls in the training exercise, muttering something about Thor having issues with it too. That's about all that comes to mind, more or less Captain America referring to something off-panel to make Thunderstrike not feel like a loser. One panel a depowered Thor was able to react quickly enough to prevent Captain America from getting killed and proceeded to KO the opponents using his shield.

Except in the showings I'm pointing out with that fight the Silver Surfer was an actual moving target, as in using his speed to confront Thor - who maneuvers around him and slings himself into Galactus' head. Almost everyone of the instances you're thinking of where the Surfer is getting hit by "street-levers" it's while he's talking to them / trying to reason standing completely still and by usually someone that can't hurt him. He's literally been punched in the face by She-Hulk and apologized for bumping into her fist.

He didn't blitz Daken, he blasting him with a lightning bolt. The guy he was hitting / one-shotting was Wolverine in the scans. The issue is a lot of these powers will have next to not effect on Thor, let alone Hyperion.

Oky doky then.

#135 Posted by NightwingX (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Team shounen jump wins

#136 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

While i would consider a manga fan i am also a comic book fan. To the die hard manga fans, mind explaining how the shonen characters beat someone like iron man, who at 2 percent shields quite casually took a nuke. Someone like hulk, who resists energy attacks that can soften and reshape adamantium unharmed, while not even that angry. Someone like hyperion who took the force of 2 planets crushing him. And last and most powerful thor, the guy who despite not having his hammer fought a being inside the sun, who caused a chasm to form separating africa in 2 while not even wanting to kill anyone, who resisted mephisto's and doctor strange's soul manipulation because of his godly soul and much more. I think isaac know's what im talking about when i say thor,hulk,hyperion and iron man dont go down. And thor can use his 'wind of 1000 worlds attack' to literally shred his opponents to nothing. If they are on the ground they are already at a disadvantage, thor controls all earth because his mom is gaia. And mjolnir has travelled lightyears in seconds. Loki was said to move at the speed of thought, so he was faster than thor. Didnt stop thor from throwin mjolnir as fast as light to tag loki. So thors reactions are not as bad as you think. I say avengers win after a tough battle with the survivors being thor,hyperion,hulk and iron man.

#137 Edited by Cooldes (4122 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think people who say Avengers win Understand that they will never get the chance to even see Luffy, Naruto, Ichigo, Yusuke, etc. the list goes on, rinse and repeat.

The blitzing would be.... Tremendous...

#138 Posted by OriginalGL_Alan (236 posts) - - Show Bio

World Breaker Hulk + Odin Force Thor + PhoenixBuster Iron Man = Death to Shonen

#139 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor can just use winds of 1000 world to tag them or he could throw mjolnir to track and kill them. It move lightyears in seconds so they wony even see it let alone dodge it

#140 Posted by Jgames (1691 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor solo with mid difficulty

#141 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

@originalgl_alan: why the need for their top power, shonens arent worth it (this is coming from a die hard bleach,naruto,one piece fan). @jgames: you have the right idea. To cadencev2 who argues for shonens like a boss, and for isaac to laugh on the floor, cadence, explain how that whole shonen team beats glory.

To all you shonen fans, explain how they take glory (who thor beat alone).

#142 Edited by DarkRaiden (7521 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers are decimated besides Hulk and Thor. Hulk will take out at least Naruto, Ichigo, probably Tsuna as well as Yusuke fights pretty head up with Thor. I can see Yusuke (mach 350+ btw, not mach 30) taking on Thor in a good fight, but he'd only win a good 2 or 3/10 IMO so he'd need some help. Can Luffy and others provide this help? It's unknown. If Thor goes serious, I'm not sure even Yusuke can beat him so....Avengers 5/10 I'll say.

#143 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor really isn't in the same league..

#144 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

Yusuke and Ichigo could solo. Even with Thor.

#145 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: yeah, he's not in the same league as toaa. He is more than enough for the shonems. Hulk is almost invunerable. Yet when thor got a tad angry and showed some of his true power and hit hulk he stated that if he didnt stop himself hulk would die. If mjolnir touches these guys who just killed thors friend then they are dead meat. A hammer moving lightyears that weighs the same as a cannon (hammer is incalculable in weight). Think of what would happen if it touched then..... they cant even dodge it's speed cos it's faster than their thought let alone reactions.

#146 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: yeah, he's not in the same league as toaa. He is more than enough for the shonems. Hulk is almost invunerable. Yet when thor got a tad angry and showed some of his true power and hit hulk he stated that if he didnt stop himself hulk would die. If mjolnir touches these guys who just killed thors friend then they are dead meat. A hammer moving lightyears that weighs the same as a cannon (hammer is incalculable in weight). Think of what would happen if it touched then..... they cant even dodge it's speed cos it's faster than their thought let alone reactions.

I was saying he's not in the same league as other avengers/shonen here. He's stronger.

#147 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9779 posts) - - Show Bio

Just want to say Tsuna isn't faster than light. It's a common misconception much like the feat where Thor saved Rulk. Even in the scans above, the character fighting Tsuna (I forget his name) is only light speed when going through the portals. He's not attacking Tsuna that fast at all. It's just a way to sneak attack. Just look at the scan. You see him breaking sound barriers. With such short a distance, if he really were moving light speed the sound wouldn't catch up until well after the fact. Also, even if Tsuna were that fast, explain why he continues to be hit by characters who clearly aren't a light speed level??

#148 Posted by Theorder14 (1547 posts) - - Show Bio

Just want to say Tsuna isn't faster than light. It's a common misconception much like the feat where Thor saved Rulk. Even in the scans above, the character fighting Tsuna (I forget his name) is only light speed when going through the portals. He's not attacking Tsuna that fast at all. It's just a way to sneak attack. Just look at the scan. You see him breaking sound barriers. With such short a distance, if he really were moving light speed the sound wouldn't catch up until well after the fact. Also, even if Tsuna were that fast, explain why he continues to be hit by characters who clearly aren't a light speed level??

umm where did any1 say he could go FTL?

-aaand ur putting logic into fiction?

aaaand he wasn't in his TDW mode in those other fights he got tagged LOL >.>

ur turn

#149 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets not pressure him, though avengers still win

#150 Edited by hudyman (1704 posts) - - Show Bio

Tsuna and Naruto Solo.