should the battles forum have mentors like the rpg forum?

Getting into battles and debating can be very tricky for people just learning the rope's, so I though having a mentor system like the RPG forum could result in more well informed debating and better battles.

Or people can read the rules and take a look at this thread while they're at it.

I dont think it should have mentors so much but general guidelines / tutorials on how to provide feats since it appears people like to point the finger and say you provided no feats if you do not provide scans / images. Maybe a specific wording.

No.

No, I understand the reason, but it is not needed or is essential.

all you need to understand are in the battle forum rules

Not really

Tell more about your idea.

Its not hard to teach people the "put your fingers in your ears and say la la la" tactic thats so commonly used

Nope. RPG and Battles are completely different.

You didn't provide enough feats for a need of a mentor

People who say that mentors aren't required in the battle forums are those who need mentors the most.

I disagree. I don't think people need mentors per se, but reading and analyzing the debating styles and techniques of top debaters (like yourself for instance) would certainly help newer debaters. They could then further that by asking for more help if they need it.

Perchance my wording was off.

What I mean is those who don't think they have anything to learn here on the Battle Forums are the ones who need to learn the most. Those who believe they are already as good as can be are generally those who I think need the most improvement.

:)

@thetruebarryallen: Ah ok. I agree with that then. One can never really stop learning.

If I was a mentor I would say to never make an equalized stats battle and always make battle with character with their morals on and in character because otherwise we won't debate the real characters.

But I think nobody agrees with me about that.

Nah, if they just read @thetruebarryallen's debating tips and follow that they should be good to go.

There is no point. When people start debates or CAV they tend to want their first match to be against a viner who has experience debating and posting battles and they learn that way.

@thetruebarryallen: HOFs should just rule all with a iron fist :)

Comicvine? HOW BOUT' DICTATORSHIPVINE! MUAHAHAHA

It's not necessary, but it should be fun.

I prefer the 'evolve or die' environment of the battle forum right now.

What would that help?

If you don't know what you are doing in the battle forums, you are corrected, laughed at, and ignored.

But with the rpg, if you don't know what you're doing, you interfere with the fun of everyone. There is actually a serious need for mentors there.

@superdrummer: And you like that? Mentors could help decrease those types of things. Less embarrassment and mockery seems like a great thing imo.

why the need to be mentored when the battle forumites grows on making mistakes and accepting counter arguments. embarrasment and mockery happens in real life so why even be so soft on such hard things in the forum ?

But if there's a way to avoid/reduce it, why not?

i believe in "standing up after falling" and whether you get a "slight touch" like a counter argument or a "blast" like mockery and embarassment because of that would help in the long run. besides you learn not to do those kind of "blasts" for no reason.

And a mentor can directly give you all you can learn like that, in a shorter time.

would it ? no, IMO a mentor can also subconsciously hold you back. you now have someone to defer with your arguments here because of the way that mentor taught you.

I don't see that at all.

you now have someone to defer with your arguments here because of the way that mentor taught you.

Elaborate.

because of what that mentor taught you, you subconsciously try to align your arguments to that lesson and unless you can assert yourself better, you would technically defer to that lesson over and over again without putting a lot more critical thinking to it.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work, but if someone has a mentor, they'll hardly be handing out results to a topic. They'll teach about the common mistakes made, or how to look at the topic, ways they followed. It doesn't stand in the way of critical thinking, it prevents wastage of time.

Instead of subconsciously picking up the trolling you keep dealing with because you know any better, it is much more helpful to pick up tips and pointer from a respected debater.

if you have been mentored, all the things they taught to you would be a followed to a point on a subconscious level. there is nothing wrong with that but if you keep doing that without you growing and being more assertive than what is originally taught of you, then that mentor has effectively held you down.

picking up pointers and tips is good but if you can't process things on your own, you are half as effective as you will be in the long run.

Support. I see too many people making terrible opinions based on no facts

I'm pretty sure this is what the Hall of Fame is for already. A list of the most relapse red debaters on the forum for others to seek out for advice or aspire to be like. I still get bit up for questions, help, Ect in my PMs.

Pretty much the same thing really.

How does this mentoring stuff works in RPG?

I kind of agree, only except for the part in bold. Granted, I have been a member of the forums for a very short time, but I still couldn't help but notice that there are many people with 2k+ posts who can't make a proper argument, ignore other's points or just respond to them by reposting the comment that the other person was adressing, use certain terms without even knowing what they mean and well, are just plain ignorant.

In fact, I have seen very few people who you can have a constructive discussion with, who point out mistakes even in arguments of people who are debating the same side as them, who can accept it when they were clearly wrong about something.

So... if you're subconsciously following good grammer, disregarding clear PIS, and being respectful to others after a few chats, it's much better than writing 500 posts full of nonsense so you can learn similar things. Having a mentor doesn't stop you from learning on your own at all, it just points you to the accurate direction.

There are mentors on CV?!?!? Whoa. Cool

By laughing, I don't mean personal attacks. I'm going to get a laugh out of anyone who says Broly is stronger than Cell. That doesn't mean I'm going to say anyone who thinks that is a bad person and go out of my way to embarrass them (although I will debate them, and some embarrassment might come from learning something new and realizing they were wrong).

Everyone debates differently and finds different evidence valuable. Its just how it is. I personally find doing good calcs extremely important, as well as applying science until evidence shows you can't. Some people think my trig and force vectors are garbage. They will laugh at me for applying reality to fiction. Some people really value when the author has to say, while I really couldn't care less.

So yes, I do think a culture where people laugh at and move on from other people's arguments is important. It encourages a verity of views and evidence types, and the two can co-exist on the same thread.

Thing is, two different approaches to role playing can cause the whole forum to erupt into flames.

or if you flip it around, you see beyond good grammar and see the whole message, clearly distinguish PIS, WIS, CIS or stupid comic stuffs, and generally be accommodating than respectful. having a mentor can hold you down at some point and if you can't grow from that, then your mentor just made a copy of himself.

I feel there should be more of a beginners guide, but honestly I feel debaters should find there own identity. Debating as a whole is pretty natural thing since people tend to argue and disagree in real life. No matter what, the longer you do it, the better you'll get. Theres also at to many people that come in ratio to the people who have time and willingness to actually coach somebody in debating.

Having a mentor doesn't stop you from achieving any of that, just helps do it faster.

maybe, maybe not but it still falls on the aptitude of that student on change and evolution

Not really. It's not 'either a mentor or self-learning'. It's self learning vs mentor+self learning.

A mentor could be someone that teaches how to organize a post or structure your opinion and to point out what you need to read to now better a character or where they can find some feats for that character.