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#1 Edited by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

Shazam vs. Flash

Shazam(New 52): Has super strength, can fly, and shoots lightning.

The Flash(New 52): Can enter the speed force, and can shoot vortexes.

Setting: Wasteland

Shazam starts out as a kid, and Flash starts out without his suit on. Shazam is on the ridge in the middle and The Flash is on the left.

When you choose your winner, choose on a scale from 1-10 how easy/hard it was for your winner to win (10 being easy and 1 being hard)

If you use an example from a comic, try to find a picture of the comic to post with your reason.

Thanks!-Hal

#2 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

Shazam.

#3 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

: Why? And rate 1-10 on how difficult it was.

#4 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: 6/10

Mainly cause Barry is not too durable and if he trips he'll be in a serious world of pain, Barry is just tooooo frail.

#5 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

SHAZAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 7/10

#6 Posted by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

Shazam wins 10/10. Barry has shown practically no relevant striking feats and got owned by Cheetah. Shazam should be well out of his league. He'd dodge around a lot, but he has no way of actually winning.

#7 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Moderator
#8 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

Shazam wins 10/10. Barry has shown practically no relevant striking feats and got owned by Cheetah. Shazam should be well out of his league. He'd dodge around a lot, but he has no way of actually winning.

To be fair, wasn't Cheetah dunking on pretty much everyone?

#9 Edited by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@Dredeuced said:

Shazam wins 10/10. Barry has shown practically no relevant striking feats and got owned by Cheetah. Shazam should be well out of his league. He'd dodge around a lot, but he has no way of actually winning.

To be fair, wasn't Cheetah dunking on pretty much everyone?

Yeah, but Barry's been getting tagged by everyone lately. He just spent this current arc getting his ass kicked over and over again by guys who Shazam way outclasses. This is the weakest Flash has been since Wally could only clock in at 700mph lol.

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Yeah, now if only Barry's only striking feats weren't "can take out a normal guy or annoy a gorilla" he'd have a shot. He has no way to deal with flight and no way to hurt Shazam unless we can say he speedblitzes while he's still Billy (which I don't see morals on Barry doing).

#10 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel should win.....

#11 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm giving it to Flash. Even if Barry New 52 doesn't have the striking feats he used to, he DOES have another feat that makes a great deal of difference here: His ability to pause time and look at all the possible outcomes. Think a Speed Force version of Midnighter's Battle Computer. He armors up, Billy yells Shazam, Barry figures out how to beat Shazam in a second, applies said method.

#12 Posted by Squalleon (4565 posts) - - Show Bio

Shazam hasn't any feats.

Flash Wins.

#13 Posted by ComicStooge (12591 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Could that count as a feat of durability?

#14 Posted by sage1000 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash wins 7/10, he did take on Supergirl and he was really holding back there and Shazam just got his butt kicked by Black Adam.

#15 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge said:

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Could that count as a feat of durability?

It could if Adam wasn't equally featless. Billy took two hits and then ran for his life.

@Dredeuced said:

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Yeah, now if only Barry's only striking feats weren't "can take out a normal guy or annoy a gorilla" he'd have a shot. He has no way to deal with flight and no way to hurt Shazam unless we can say he speedblitzes while he's still Billy (which I don't see morals on Barry doing).

Billy hasn't flown yet in the DCnU, so I'm not sure why Barry would have a problem with that. And Flash does have a way of hurting Shazam, he can simply vibrate him through a wall and leave him half-in, half-out. He used the vibrating tactic extensively in his fight with Supergirl, and Kara remarked that while she was going all out with her speed, she could barely keep up with Barry who was holding back and unwilling to fight her. Supergirl has basically every stat in the book over Shazam at this point. He was also capable of disorienting Supergirl with arm-funnels.

Shazam doesn't have a single feat thus far that suggests he can react faster than, say, Batman. Barring jobbing, there's no reason he should even touch Barry.

Moderator
#16 Posted by dondave (36587 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash ftw

#17 Posted by tomlikesfries (4643 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

Shazam wins 10/10. Barry has shown practically no relevant striking feats and got owned by Cheetah. Shazam should be well out of his league. He'd dodge around a lot, but he has no way of actually winning.

I think the New 52 Flash is underrated. Shazam has no feats, and Cheetah caught Barry unaware by cutting his Achilles Tendon. Nonetheless, throughout the New 52 so far, Barry has had great reaction feats as shown in Flash #2 or 3 if I'm not mistaken (he has that speed of mind thing. Forgive me for I cannot really remember since it was several months ago) and could always speed-blitz Billy.

I say Flash takes it 7/10.

#18 Edited by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

: Explain why and give a rating on how easy it was for your winner to win on a scale from 1-10.

: Why? And give a rating.

#19 Posted by Bo88gdan (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

Shazam wins 10

#20 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

: Explain why.

#21 Posted by Bo88gdan (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: more powerfull

#22 Edited by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

: I guess that counts as explaining, but if you can, go into more detail on that.

-Hal

#23 Posted by Bo88gdan (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: hmm he would tag him with lightning then destroy him with fists is that good explanation :D

#24 Posted by dondave (36587 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: 7-8/10

#25 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@ComicStooge said:

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Could that count as a feat of durability?

It could if Adam wasn't equally featless. Billy took two hits and then ran for his life.

@Dredeuced said:

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Yeah, now if only Barry's only striking feats weren't "can take out a normal guy or annoy a gorilla" he'd have a shot. He has no way to deal with flight and no way to hurt Shazam unless we can say he speedblitzes while he's still Billy (which I don't see morals on Barry doing).

Billy hasn't flown yet in the DCnU, so I'm not sure why Barry would have a problem with that. And Flash does have a way of hurting Shazam, he can simply vibrate him through a wall and leave him half-in, half-out. He used the vibrating tactic extensively in his fight with Supergirl, and Kara remarked that while she was going all out with her speed, she could barely keep up with Barry who was holding back and unwilling to fight her. Supergirl has basically every stat in the book over Shazam at this point. He was also capable of disorienting Supergirl with arm-funnels.

Shazam doesn't have a single feat thus far that suggests he can react faster than, say, Batman. Barring jobbing, there's no reason he should even touch Barry.

Billy's flown before.

#26 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio
Joyride

@CitizenBane:

#27 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Flash ftw
#28 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

: Well, The Flash can outrun Billy's bolts, right?

#29 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: If he can outrun Superman's heat vision and Darkseid's Omega Beams he can dodge the lightning.

#30 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

Good point Clark, and : Your move......

-Hal (and Clark)

#31 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone have a good reason for Shazam to beat Flash?

#32 Edited by Dredeuced (5509 posts) - - Show Bio

@Clark_EL said:

@Hal__Jordan: If he can outrun Superman's heat vision and Darkseid's Omega Beams he can dodge the lightning.

We don't know if New-52 Darkseid's beams are equivalent to the old one, or how fast they are, or anything. New-52 Barry didn't outrun Superman's heat vision unless that wasn't in JL (I've only kept up with JL and Flash in new-52 so far). And he only just barely stayed ahead of the Omega Beam until he got it to hit someone else. That said:

@Hal__Jordan said:

: Well, The Flash can outrun Billy's bolts, right?

Pretty easily, as seen here:

#33 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

: Yeah that was Wally, but I think The Flash can still outrun his bolts.

: True, true.

#34 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

For anyone who wants to post a reason from a comic, please put the comic page with your post (as a picture).

#35 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: Does it really matter?

#36 Posted by tomlikesfries (4643 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bo88gdan said:

@Hal__Jordan: hmm he would tag him with lightning then destroy him with fists is that good explanation :D

Not really. Barry could outrun Billy's lightning.

#37 Posted by asIsuspected (543 posts) - - Show Bio

both are featless so far......

#38 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

: What doesn't matter?

#39 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: If it's Wally or Barry.

#40 Edited by tomlikesfries (4643 posts) - - Show Bio

@asIsuspected said:

both are featless so far....

Batson really is featless. Barry, however, has a couple of feats. Check this out:

New 52 Flash Respect Thread

#41 Posted by asIsuspected (543 posts) - - Show Bio
@tomlikesfries said:

@asIsuspected said:

both are featless so far....

Batson really is featless. Barry, however, has a couple of feats. Check this out:

New 52 Flash Respect Thread

thanks
#42 Edited by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash doesn't have IMP (and it's debatable if he will ever get it), but let's think here if you just tapped lightly on your skin for a couple hours it would start to hurt really bad. Flash could do that but I don't know how many punches he could get in before billy can react, he's not slow either. I was thinking maybe 10 hits which wouldn't be enough to put him down. So until I see better feats...

Shazam - New 52
#43 Posted by tgd124 (27 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@ComicStooge said:

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Could that count as a feat of durability?

It could if Adam wasn't equally featless. Billy took two hits and then ran for his life.

@Dredeuced said:

@CitizenBane said:

People are aware Shazam only has two feats, right? One-shotting a burglar and getting lolstomped by Black Adam?

Yeah, now if only Barry's only striking feats weren't "can take out a normal guy or annoy a gorilla" he'd have a shot. He has no way to deal with flight and no way to hurt Shazam unless we can say he speedblitzes while he's still Billy (which I don't see morals on Barry doing).

Billy hasn't flown yet in the DCnU, so I'm not sure why Barry would have a problem with that. And Flash does have a way of hurting Shazam, he can simply vibrate him through a wall and leave him half-in, half-out. He used the vibrating tactic extensively in his fight with Supergirl, and Kara remarked that while she was going all out with her speed, she could barely keep up with Barry who was holding back and unwilling to fight her. Supergirl has basically every stat in the book over Shazam at this point. He was also capable of disorienting Supergirl with arm-funnels.

Shazam doesn't have a single feat thus far that suggests he can react faster than, say, Batman. Barring jobbing, there's no reason he should even touch Barry.

Shazam wins 9/10

Billy has actually flown, and shown super-speed as he fled from the cops after stopping a bank robbery. He also has lightning abilities, giving off bolts and also very few (at the moment) magical abilities when he says "shazam". The fact that he was chosen to protect the earth and be it's champion obviously means he has some more powers we havn't seen. The fact that he was curb-stomped by Black Adam means little to nothing, BA has had powers equal to superman for thousands of years, and billy only received some earlier that day. It's like saying Batman must suck because superman was able to punch him in the face.

The fact that Shazam joins the league next issue will probably reveal more power as well, because the back up is his origin, and he's already well established if the JL wants his help.

#44 Posted by tgd124 (27 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: Doesn't Flash give off lightning? Couldn't Shazam just zap him with the bolts he gives off, or grab him and wail him in the face

Also, the fact that Shazam is beating up Superman (enough to make him bleed), while being restrained by Wonder Woman, has to show he's pretty tough

#45 Posted by Hal__Jordan (45 posts) - - Show Bio

#46 Posted by tgd124 (27 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: well, supermans caught the flash, and shazam is equal or greater than supes, so, im going to say yes. he has the speed of murcury after all, and flash has only been clocked at like 700 miles per hour (been dialed back since reboot) and can't maintain top speed while fighting anyway, so yea, billy still beats barry

#47 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hal__Jordan: Barely

#48 Posted by thrashmoney (8 posts) - - Show Bio

lets say Shazams lightning travels.....ehhh idk, the speed of light. Flash is 13 trillion times the speed of light. Shazam can never touch him because I know he isn't anywhere as fast as Superman and if he is he still couldn't touch him.

#49 Posted by thrashmoney (8 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF....up at the top where it says the characters abilities you kinda left all of them out.


Powers (Flash)

Speed Force Conduit: While all speedsters are powered by the force, West mainlines the power from the force itself and cannot be cut off from the source, unlike the others. Wally is the fastest of all the Flashes perhaps rivaled only by his mentor, Barry Allen. He is arguably one of the fastest beings that has ever existed.[47] He is currently fast enough to easily break all the barriers and even enter the Speed Force. Wally has, on several occasions, traveled much faster than light and been pulled into and exited the Speed Force by his own volition. The Flash is considered to be one of the most formidable and powerful meta-humans on the planet.

Decelerated Aging: Along with every speedster that draws from the speed force, the loved ones of the speedsters will gain eternal youth like Jay's wife and Barry's wife ages have shown.

Energy Construct Creation: Wally discovered if he concentrated, the Speed Force could be used to create solid constructs which he used to compose his costume. The first time he used this ability was to create a solid armor enabling him to run despite having broken legs. Later examples included sealing up the openings of his costume against disease, creating pockets for holding things, etc. His costume itself is a construct molded from the Speed Force. At times he'll create walls of pressurized debris to surround an area. [citation needed]

Sharing the Force: "Lending" velocity to objects or people already in motion. Since his interaction with the Speed Force, he may also lend his speed and angular momentum to another object or person. This may allow others to run alongside with the Flash.

Steal Speed: He is able to "steal" speed and/or momentum from anyone or anything, including beings such as Superman or Inertia effectively turning them into living statues. Also can steal speed from bullets and other fast moving objects thrown at him or at others. This ability is so great, that he once took the speed from the entire planet, and its population, including the very fast beings such as Superman, Jay Garrick etc. He cannot, however, steal speed from speedsters such as Doctor Zoom, who creates his own negative Speed Force and is able to corrupt/negate the Speed Force and Barry Allen who is the Speed Force and its sole creator.

Speed Force Aura: The Flash's body is surrounded by what he calls his "speed force aura". This aura protects him and anyone who is running with him or carried by him, from the effects of using his speed. This includes friction and airborne particulate matter. It also protects him from injury from high speed impacts such as punches he delivers and receives from his opponents. With this aura, he is able to absorb kinetic energy. Wally can sync his aura with his children, giving him the ability to pull either of them to him with a thought.[48]

Superhuman Stamina: The Flash possesses vast superhuman endurance that is nearly inexhaustible. He was able to run non-stop for over 10 days straight without tiring against Krakkl (Who was stealing the speed of his entire race and adding it to his own. A race where every single individual could achieve the speed of light.), through time and space across existence (Everywhere from the fourth dimension to the Big Bang was their track field.) at speeds so far beyond light and so unimaginable, he was constantly breaking through all the barriers and even brushed the true Speed Force itself directly.

Self-Sustenance: He has shown that he can survive in harsh environments such as space without any hindrance and has shown that he can gain all the energy he needs from the Speed Force's infinite storage of energy.

Superhuman Speed: It appears that the Flash may run at any speed that he thinks is possible. Wally West is by far one of the fastest beings on the planet, and is arguably one of the fastest beings to ever exist (Although the title of "Fastest Man" has been given back to Barry Allen in his return in "Final Crisis"). Theoretically, speeds greater than Mach 10, are dangerous to both the people and to the environment. This speed would still be the equivalent to approximately 2 miles per second, allowing him to cross the United States in about 23 minutes, or circle the world in about 3 hours, but the Speed Force has shown that if needed, Wally West can use it to prevent such effects from occurring, hence why he is able to run at speeds much faster than light on the planet Earth without it having devastating effects on the planet. He can also run across bodies of water and up the sides of buildings. Wally has shown that he can achieve practically any speed he wishes and that there are no limits to his speed. He has been able to casually move beyond the speed of thought, easily move so fast that even an attack moving at the speed of light seems to be standing still and at the same time scans the face of over five hundred thousand people for a specific expression in less than a picosecond. He is able to easily save and carry over half a million people 35 miles away from a Nuclear Warhead that had already detonated including the ones at ground zero in only 100 picoseconds, and even move so fast that he exists everywhere at once. He is able to casually reach speeds such as 500 times the speed of light. He has moved and ran so fast, that he was capable of outrunning and defeating death itself (the Black Flash) by outracing it to the end of time/space, past entropy, the next Big Bang and into the next Universe. His speed is so immeasurable that he has moved and reacted by the attosecond (an attosecond is one quintillionth of a second. To put this in perspective, one attosecond is to one second, what one second is to the age of the universe.), and has even reacted and calculated by the zeptosecond (Which is one trillionth of one billionth of one second.) and has other feats of speed that are immeasurable.

Infinite Mass Punch: Traveling near the speed of light acquired the relativistic mass of such speed to impart blows which could hit with a force greater than that of "a white dwarf star", Flash's own durability regulated by the Speed Force in such cases. Realistic effects take over as a body approaches light-speed (His control over his powers and the Speed Force is so great, that he can choose to ignore these realistic effects if he wishes to). Visual input will begin to blueshift and his body's mass will increase towards infinity. With this ability, he was able to knock out a martian as durable/tough as Superman from Mount Rushmore to the plains of Africa, all with one devastating punch.

Dimensional Travel: Wally West has shown to be able to traverse time and dimensions with his own powers, unlike Barry Allen, and the other speedsters. However, Wally now accelerates to the point that he is skirting the very edge of the Speed Force dimension or even entering it. He can traverse along the time-stream to specific points as they become visible, much like watching a movie in fast forward or reverse. In order to enter the Speed Force and time travel to different periods, he must exceed light speed, which he can easily and instantly do.

Regeneration: Accelerating his healing factor while using the Speed Force to sustain him, he could heal from any injury instantly, without prematurely aging like his alternate version, Walter West.

Phasing: The Flash has always possessed the ability to control his speed and angular momentum at the molecular level, and control his molecular interactions to allow his body to pass through any substance. If he chooses Wally can excite the molecules of whatever substance he vibrates through to critical mass causing it to explode. While in an intangible state, the Flash is immune to any airborne viruses and can breathe regularly. He can also vibrate so fast that light does not reflect off him, rendering him invisible.

Flight: By spinning like a helicopter, he can even perform a limited kind of flight. Since his power is a quantum/molecular phenomenon, the Flash has been able to fly just as other metas do (and there have been other flying speedsters in the past, such as the deceased Johnny Quick) because he can control his absolute molecular energy and direction and force it in the direction he wished to move without running. Though he rarely makes use of this ability as he enjoys running. The Speed Force also allows him to run in frictionless environments, as he was able to run in space itself, as casually as he was running on the ground without any outside assistance.

Increased Perceptions: The Flash possesses the ability to alter his perceptions so that falling objects can appear to be standing still and can be caught and moved back to their normal position. He can disarm or jam any number of opponents weapons before they are even aware of his movement and can hurl small projectiles at hypersonic velocities. His ability to alter his own perception of time is so great, that if he wishes, the tick between a second can pass for millions of years. He can even push this ability to the point, that to him, it's as if the Universe is standing still. It does not truly stand still, it is his own perception of time that seems to stand still, and his body automatically adjusts to his perception, hence, the slower he views the world, the faster his body moves through time/space to adjust to his perception. He can even all together, break time through the time and dimension barrier, to truly be beyond time/space. He can do this so quickly as to have it happen invisibly to the normal human eye. He can effortlessly strike a single opponent or multiple opponents million of times in a second.

Supercharged Brain Activity: The Flash's mental abilities are also increased in speed, simple computations can be done at lightning speeds, and his ability to perform normal feats at increased speeds has allowed him to build hundreds of force field generators in a matter of minutes, move sandbags to cover a beach or search an entire area for something as small as a paper clip. Wally can also read at super-speed, but rarely takes advantage of this ability to learn at increased speeds, although Jay Garrick has done so and has become a jack of all trades in several disciplines and languages.

Vortex Creations: By running in a circle at a certain speed, Flash is able to create a vortex with a variety of effects. One effect is pulling the air away from the center in order to suffocate an enemy. Another effect is levitating whoever and whatever was in the center. Also, able to send anyone or anything into another dimension when running around them. Some other effects are acting as barriers to movement or funnels for toxic gases. The Flash also can spin his arms to create directed funnels of hurricane speed air that can knock down barriers or reduce the speed of a falling object. When putting out forest fires, what the Flash does when he runs around the perimeter is create a pocket tornado. The updraft lowers the temperature inside the funnel and raises the fire off the ground which takes away its fuel source.

Powers (Shazam)

Divine Empowerment: Given powers by a dying Shazam, Billy Batson was granted the magic of Shazam which allowed him to transform and make use of powerful magical abilities.[1]

Transformation: Billy Batson can transform into an adult version of himself with magical powers. He can fly, generate electricity, crush cars and deflect bullets off his skin. He has no inherent control of these abilities and must learn to use them.[1]

Superhuman Strength: Billy can lift cars with ease, crush guns, and knock over superhuman enemies with little effort.[1]

Superhuman Durability: Bullets have no effect on Billy, knives conventional weaponry does nothing to his physical body as well. Only the most powerful of superhumans can topple him.[1]

Superhuman Speed: Billy can move super-humanly fast, he can take off into the skies or run past cars. He is surprisingly quick at getting away from situations that would land him into trouble.[1]

Magic: Billy can absorb and generate electricity from ambient sources of lightning such as ATMs, cars, street lights and computers. To what end this energy is used for is unknown.[1]

Flight: Billy can fly with no upper known limits. He's fought villains in the sky and been knocked out of the sky by the same villains with the grace of a falling brick.[1]




I got these off http://dc.wikia.com/

Now choose who would win using all their abilities.

#50 Edited by dondave (36587 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash