Shay Cormac vs. Connor

Since Rogue has been released, how would he fare against our native assassin?

Bonus Round: What would happen if Shay returned to Colonial America after killing Arno's true father?

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Bumpity Bump.

Conner, handily.

I'm leaning towards Connor, though I doubt it would be easy.

This^

What are you guys basing your opinions on? If you look at the abilities of both Shay and Connor, Shay takes the fight. His eagle vision is superior to Connor's, his air rifle has longer range than Connor's bow and he fights with dual weapons, which should give him an advantage over Connor's tomahawk.

Shay also fought against hardened Assassins whereas Connor hunted down mostly Templars who weren't fighters anyway. His only formidable opponent was Haytham and he only BARELY survived that because Haytham hesitates to kill his own son.

Shay

connor

Connor.

@raecinio said:

Connor consistently and singlehandedly smacks around British soldiers like little girls, and they aren't your average brutes. Britain's army was probably the best in the world, at the time.

Connor expertly uses the hidden blade as an open combat weapon, along with a knife/sword/tomahawk, so I consider that dual wielding.

None of that other stuff even matters in a close combat fight.

Connor was so weakened and injured that he could barely even walk when Haytham attacked him. Connor and Haytham are clearly on the same level, and if Connor was at his full strength during that fight, he would've come out the victor whether Haytham hesitated or not.

Connor's durability and tolerance for pain is also unbelievable. Dude gets impaled on a piece of wood, and still has enough left in him to walk a couple hundred meters through the woods and kill Charles Lee.

Wouldn't be an easy fight, but Connor can undoubtably hold his own against Shay.

Connor curbstomps hard. Shays killing spree of assasins would find an end by connor.

Connor has better Combat and kills british soldiers to shit. He is a master of all kind of weaopns and for sure a grand Master. If it takes place in city than Shay maybe has the hand above connor outside connor kills brutaly. He is a better Stealth Master than Shay and more skilled and experienced and he was one of the chosen assasins. Connor is even more modern with better weapons and combat techniques.

Connor stomps

Bumby bumb.

@fanboyasylum: yeah and Shay consistently knocks around French soldiers AND ASSASSINS. Shay is a master with the hidden blades and his weapons as well. Let's not forget, Shay destroyed the Colonial Assassin brotherhood. Connor's enemies were weak Templars who weren't even fighters. Again based off of the enemies they fought, Shay is clearly deadlier than Connor. Shay's eagle vision is FAR AND ABOVE superior to Connor's and he is better at stealth than Connor is. Lastly, the Morrigan would tear the Aquila to shreds.

And you can't say what would have happened between Haytham and Connor because Haytham was injured as well.

Shay still takes it in a close fight.

Conner

Conner

Shay. He actually fought and beat trained and master Assassin's. He was easily killing French Soldier's with ease. He single handily wiped out the entire Colonial Assassin Oder. Connor's trials were nothing compared to that. The Templars he killed couldn't fight in anyway bar Haytham and his victory over him was pure luck due to the fact that Haytham had no intention of killing Connor.

People saying Connor stomps have presented no real argument as to why.

Shay.

@monsterstomp what are your thoughts.

Connor.

@ultragreenboy: From what I've seen, Connor should win.

I'm going to try and weigh up the pros and cons of each and add points

Firstly I think Shay appears to be a better captain with better eagle vision is just gameplay mechanics, if a DLC was made with Connor being the protagonist I imagine his skills in both would be better.

Also ones in italic are weak pros/cons.

Connor:

Pros:

Superior hunter.

Apprentices and allies, including Aveline.

Achilles' teaching may have included warning him of Shay.

Versatile and brutal fighter.

Physically slightly stronger

Hidden blades can also be used as daggers.

High pain tolerance

Cons:

Fashion sense makes blending in more difficult.

Poorer social skills.

Shay:

Pros:

More experienced and used to fighting Assassins.

Better outfitted ship (if he still has it).

First hand experience of how Assassins work.

Rifle with grenade launcher.

Slightly faster

Cons:

Weak power base due to Connor and time away.

To be perfectly honest they'd be quite evenly matched but I'd put my money on Connor.

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Shay for 2 reasons.

1. Better feats. Shay hunted hardened assassins. Connor hunted templars that weren't really fighters. The only true fighter Connor beat was Haytham, but only because Haytham hesitated. He had no intention of killing his son. Yes Connor tossed around the British army but Shay tossed around the French army.

2. Better equipment. Shay had a grenade launcher and two guns. Connor had a bow and a gun. Shay duel-weilded a sword and dagger. Connor had a tomahawk.

Also for those saying Connor is stronger than Shay, if he is stronger, it's not by much. Shay can stop a charging elk just just as well as Connor can. Don't believe me? Find an elk in AC Rogue then make it mad.

In the end Shay wins in a good fight.

1. Connor was hesitating as well, so it doesnt matter. Besides, Haytham is far better than anyone Shay ever fought.

2. Connor had tomahawk AND dagger. He also has heavy two handed weapon.

It doesnt matter if he stops elk. Thats a gameplay mechanic and gameplay mechanics are non canon.

@penderor: then you can't say that Conor killed scores of British soldiers since it isn't exactly canon how many soldiers he's killed. In the end, Shay's feats are far more impressive compared to Connor's. Although I like the Assassins better, I think Shay has this fight. Not to mention that Shay pretty much single handedly defeated Assassins all trained by Achilles, who trained Connor. Connor doesn't have anything Shay hasn't already encountered.

Shay would win because of his equipment.

But in everything else Shay and Connor are equal.

I say Connor would win for one simple fact: he beat Haytham.

I honestly don't think Shay would have been able to beat Achilles, as Haytham had that "honor," and Shay convinced him to spar his life. Achilles poured all of himself into Connor, and as such Connor became one of the best, most skilled Assassin's of them all.

Shay would hold his own, but Connor would take him in the end. It is true that Shay has the advantage in the long range, but Connor is fast, stronger, more agile, and more durable than Shay is. Even if Shay got a shot on Connor at a distance, Connor would still be able to close the distance, and defeat him in cqc.

@onilordasmodeus: Connor beat Haytham because Haytham wasn't going to kill his own son, Haytham hesitated, if Haytham didn't hesitate Connor would be dead.

AC3 is my first assassin creed game and Conner is a better character, so I think he's a stronger fighter too

For those saying that Conner should win because he beat Haytham have to understand that Haytham was on the older side of things, injured and hesitating because Connor was his son. The fight itself could go either way but I'd give Shay a slight majority...definately not a stomp for anybody

Shay is more experienced since he has been doing it longer than connor along with having to be constantly on his guard against stalkers which are everywhere, he has to react in less then seconds, and he smacks around the British AND the French. He also survived a hundred foot drop in blistering cold to which he then while still in recovery, taught some assassin soldiers the meaning of pain.

Shay wins this. He pretty much took down the whole Assassins operation by himself. Assassins >> Templars/British soldiers. He has better weapons than Connor too. He got his training from a variety of different Assassins, rather than a weak old Achilles.

Haytham losing to Connor despite him being weak as hell was clearly PIS.

Also, Morrigan > Aquila

Why are people downplaying the Haytham fight? Connor got shelled twice. One before the fight and another during the fight and yet he was still able to fight Haytham to a standstill.

Anyway, I would really interpret his death as him being so caught up in his own bloodlust that he left himself unguarded. I think you die when you don't do the QTE, but then again I've never tried not doing it so I can't say.

@cooldudeachyut: One thing no one thinks about is the fact that Connor's fighting style is different than any other assassin's or french soldier's style.Yes Shay does have the equipment advantage but Connor has the experience to fight him.Connor's stealth,fighting,climbing and shooting skill are outclassing any other assassin's one.Connor has fought other like Shay,for example Haytham,people keep underrating this fight,he's got experience in avoiding bullets,matrix style up in this bitch.

Shay has many of the unique skills Connor has,like tree-climbing but he doesn't really do them as Connor...Connor had to do them to survive,I don't think living in a native tribe constantly threatened by the british was easy,also his resistance to pain is pretty much inhuman,gets 2 cannonballs hit him yet he still continues to fight with Haytham,after that he gets impaled and keeps going to fight Charles Lee,he has been continously tortured in prison.Also the bow isn't really that bad compared to Shay's rifle,Connor can fire way faster than Shay and I don't really think it will be a long ranged battle.Dual wielding weapons is an advantage but it does depend on who you are fighting too,both of them had fought 10-20 maybe even more soldiers at once so defending from multiple enemy attacks at one wouldn't be a problem.

Everyone takes this "Oh but Shay killed assassins" stuff for granted it's not even close to that none of the assassins that you are talking about are at Connor's level.Yes Achilles might have trained some of them but at that point they've already had protection from other assassin's.Connor didn't.

Connor was fighting for survival during his time with Achilles. It would be the other way around if Connor were to fight Shay.

Connor takes round 1 narrowly , but he wins round 2 decisively.

@kriotix: Having a different fighting style doesn't make it automatically better. It's been a while since I've played AC3 but I would really like to know how Connor has more experience than Shay. Anyway, does experience even matter among these fictional world characters? People keep taking down opponents with far more experience all the time, example being Connor taking down Haytham(which was purely PIS even if Haytham was pretty old).

It depends upon the environment whether the assassins' climbing skills will come to play here. Dual wielding isn't exactly an advantage and I doubt any of them actually fought against 20 multiple soldiers at once, unless you are talking about gameplay which really doesn't matter.

Shay killing a lot of assassins isn't important because it shows his cqc fighting skills but rather shows how he can counter other assassins' tactics(smoke bombs, long range weaponry, stealth etc). Connor might have a slight edge in close and personal fight but Shay's overall experience fighting the assassins plus his own fighting skills would give him the win.

Also, the one who has the plot on his side will win because most of the AC protagonists have almost similar skill levels at the end of the game.

@cooldudeachyut: Well... at least i kept fighting with huge groups of enemies :))) And i do get what you are saying.

@kriotix: Yeah, it's sometimes fun to keep decimating armies. I once killed like 150 enemies in AC3 in one go and only didn't kill more because I got bored. AC games were so easy to complete in a perfect way ... until Unity came.

I honestly think that Shay would win, Both in a straight battle and naval battle. Yes Connor is built but Shay is craftier, More experienced and remorseless. Plus his ship The Morrigan while technically smaller boasts things like burning oil and mortars..

Is anyone considering Shay's age at the time he was have been 45 by 1776 when Connor wasn't even yet at the height of his abilities. In the same year Connor would have been only 20 putting Connor before the prime of his life and Shay already after it. Though I will say Altiar and Ezio fought long into their later years and were indeed master assassins, Shay only had the upper hand on the Assassin order because he was one of them, not only did he have access to then entirety of their training knowledge, but also base location and all the Templar recourse he wanted or need which explains the Morrigan. That being said, the Alquila is the fastest ship on the North Atlantic and wouldn't even have to engage Shay in Naval. In range Shay might have some grenades and darts but if he can't land on on a high flying Connor hes left to his blade. Not only does connor have experience with more weapons than Shay he has access to a whole lot more, not to mention that both Connor and Haytham's left-hand hidden blades sat on a hinge to allow it to become a weildable dagger. Connor wins hands down. That's why Shay never tried hunting for him.

It would be close but Shay wins. Here are my reasons:

1. Shay has butchered Assassins and French soldiers who are greater than the British Army.

2. While Connor has weapons and Assassin techniques, Shay was an Assassin and knows the Assassin mentality and fighting techniques.

3. The Morrigan can stomp the Aquila and destroy the Jackdaw pretty easily (I have played AC3, AC4, and AC Rogue and the Morrigan tops it ALL)

4. He faced stronger competition on land and sea (He destroyed the most powerful ship the Storm Fortress and survived chemical warfare, Connor wasn't on that tier yet and the Storm Fortress would MAUL the Aquila)

5. He destroyed the Colonial Assassin Brotherhood (who had tough and well-trained Assassins) and made Achilles look in the mirror every day and see himself as a failure to the Brotherhood

6. Connor's strongest competition was an old Haytham Kenway who struggled to keep up. The reason why Connor won and killed him cause Haytham would not kill his own son.

7. People bring up the ending where Connor has taken a wooden plank and managed to walk and kill Charles Lee. If prime Shay Cormac was there, he would easily have done that. Cormac's armor is stronger.

8. Connor has tomahawks and a bow and arrow and a gun. Shay has an AIR RIFLE which can shoot darts & grenades from long range, he also has a longsword and dagger, and has guns. Cormac has the weapons advantage.

People underrate Shay Cormac because he is a Templar. For me, he is the 3rd strongest playable Assassin out of any game. The only people better than him are Ezio and Edward Kenway. Other than those two, EVERYONE Loses to Cormac either close or godstomp. Go back to AC Rogue and complete the FULL game, not storyline ok. Then you see how good Shay and the Morrigan is.

Shay

+More Experience

+Smarter and a better battle tactician

+Better Gear

+Ruthless

+Enhanced Eagle Vision

Connor

+Physically Better

+Stealthier

+Better Freerunner

+Better Hunter

+Better Tracker