#1 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

Discuss

#2 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends.

Is there knowledge on the opponents?

Where are they fighting?

Question: Has Krillin ever moved faster than thought?

I'm inclined to say Krillin owns Kahn in a physical fight due to his speed and strength, but Kahn's magic (TK, soul mainp., etc) is God-like so I can't count him out completely.

#3 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

Depends.

Is there knowledge on the opponents?

Where are they fighting?

Question: Has Krillin ever moved faster than thought?

I'm inclined to say Krillin owns Kahn in a physical fight due to his speed and strength, but Kahn's magic (TK, soul mainp., etc) is God-like so I can't count him out completely.

His durability not god-like though, so I don't see how is this last longer than 0.1 sec. The fight start, Krillin kick, SK fly away. This moment happened on the first budokai with Krillin.

#4 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

Depends.

Is there knowledge on the opponents?

Where are they fighting?

Question: Has Krillin ever moved faster than thought?

I'm inclined to say Krillin owns Kahn in a physical fight due to his speed and strength, but Kahn's magic (TK, soul mainp., etc) is God-like so I can't count him out completely.

No, random encounter, I actually think this is a good fight because of the magic as you say.

#5 Posted by NeonGameWave (7786 posts) - - Show Bio

Shao Kahn at full power stomps Krillin.

#6 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

...... stomp for Krillin. Super speed (literally fought a minuet long battle in .a split second in Dragon Ball and much faster during Frieza Saga) and has Destructo Disc that cuts mountains in half. Easy win.

As seen they fought a whole battle in .02 seconds and then had a Paper Rock scissors match to finish it!

Shao Khan gets murder stomped!

#7 Posted by pinhead24 (10 posts) - - Show Bio

Shao Kahn wins.

#8 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@SSJLozza:

Random encounter. No knowledge. In character?

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Depends.

Is there knowledge on the opponents?

Where are they fighting?

Question: Has Krillin ever moved faster than thought?

I'm inclined to say Krillin owns Kahn in a physical fight due to his speed and strength, but Kahn's magic (TK, soul mainp., etc) is God-like so I can't count him out completely.

His durability not god-like though, so I don't see how is this last longer than 0.1 sec. The fight start, Krillin kick, SK fly away. This moment happened on the first budokai with Krillin.

His durability is super human though.

@CadenceV2:

How would Krillin act in the opening parts of a random encounter fight? Or with an opponent he knows thing about? I can't recall Krillin fighting in a random bout, only in prepped matches.

I know Kahn would probably underestimate Krillin off the bat (due to him being human and all), but as soon a Krillin tipped his hat I think Kahn would go for his soul.

#9 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: Khan is Bullet timer max. krillin would fight Shao Khan like any World wrecker foes he has fought and open up like this.

Khan has no defense for the speed or over 20 ton strength and Destructo Disc attack. Krillin will land 20 attacks of 20 ton force easy in .02 seconds.

#10 Posted by bornstar (1320 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@onilordasmodeus: Khan is Bullet timer max. krillin would fight Shao Khan like any World wrecker foes he has fought and open up like this.

Khan has no defense for the speed or over 20 ton strength and Destructo Disc attack. Krillin will land 20 attacks of 20 ton force easy in .02 seconds.

this

#11 Edited by Mortein (2909 posts) - - Show Bio

21st budokai Krillin could win this

and 21st budokai Krillin>>Master Roshi << Kid Goku (Red Ribbon saga)<<<<Kid Goku(22nd budokai)<<Old Piccolo<<<<King Piccolo<Kid Goku (King Piccolo saga)<<<<Mr. Popo<<<Kami<<<<Goku (start of DBZ)<<<Raditz<<<Nappa<<Krillin (namek saga)<<<<<<< EOS Krillin

#12 Posted by Grandmastersexyhd (305 posts) - - Show Bio

Krillin

#13 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2:

Krillin doesn't know Kahn is a "world wrecker", and in the scans you posted Krillin's opponent got the first attack.

I hate to say it, but if Kahn attacks first, Krillin would be like "wtf, the is guy is slow" and not take him serious...then Kahn would kill him.

#14 Edited by Walzo (4355 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

I highly doubt a single punch from Kahn would kill Krillin.

#15 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@CadenceV2:

Krillin doesn't know Kahn is a "world wrecker", and in the scans you posted Krillin's opponent got the first attack.

I hate to say it, but if Kahn attacks first, Krillin would be like "wtf, the is guy is slow" and not take him serious...then Kahn would kill him.

World Wrecker lol Liu Kang beats him as does a Mortal and depowered Raiden. C'mon now.

#16 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@SSJLozza:

Random encounter. No knowledge. In character?

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Depends.

Is there knowledge on the opponents?

Where are they fighting?

Question: Has Krillin ever moved faster than thought?

I'm inclined to say Krillin owns Kahn in a physical fight due to his speed and strength, but Kahn's magic (TK, soul mainp., etc) is God-like so I can't count him out completely.

His durability not god-like though, so I don't see how is this last longer than 0.1 sec. The fight start, Krillin kick, SK fly away. This moment happened on the first budokai with Krillin.

His durability is super human though.

@CadenceV2:

How would Krillin act in the opening parts of a random encounter fight? Or with an opponent he knows thing about? I can't recall Krillin fighting in a random bout, only in prepped matches.

I know Kahn would probably underestimate Krillin off the bat (due to him being human and all), but as soon a Krillin tipped his hat I think Kahn would go for his soul.

Krillin had a random encounter on namek, against some noname soldier of Freeza. He and Gohan one shot them. He had an another random encounter after the second budokai, when Piccolo Daimao's monster killed him. He was acting offensively, that's how he tried to protect the dragon ball(s?). And as I mentioned, on the first budokai, he didn't know anything about the opponent, he scared from fight, so kicked as he could.

Also I think if Kahn could steal his soul(ki) it would be like the Yakon scene. Not the exploding part, I mean, Krillins soul is not just a single thing like in MK. It would be more difficult to steal.

#17 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@onilordasmodeus: Khan is Bullet timer max. krillin would fight Shao Khan like any World wrecker foes he has fought ...

@CadenceV2 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@CadenceV2:

Krillin doesn't know Kahn is a "world wrecker", and in the scans you posted Krillin's opponent got the first attack.

I hate to say it, but if Kahn attacks first, Krillin would be like "wtf, the is guy is slow" and not take him serious...then Kahn would kill him.

World Wrecker lol Liu Kang beats him as does a Mortal and depowered Raiden. C'mon now.

I didn't call him a world wrecker...you did. And with kahn's magic unrestrained, he can cause destruction on a global scale.

@Walzo said:

@onilordasmodeus:

I highly doubt a single punch from Kahn would kill Krillin.

Hell no Kahn couldn't one shot Krillin with a punch...but his magic could.

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@SSJLozza:

Random encounter. No knowledge. In character?

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Depends.

Is there knowledge on the opponents?

Where are they fighting?

Question: Has Krillin ever moved faster than thought?

I'm inclined to say Krillin owns Kahn in a physical fight due to his speed and strength, but Kahn's magic (TK, soul mainp., etc) is God-like so I can't count him out completely.

His durability not god-like though, so I don't see how is this last longer than 0.1 sec. The fight start, Krillin kick, SK fly away. This moment happened on the first budokai with Krillin.

His durability is super human though.

@CadenceV2:

How would Krillin act in the opening parts of a random encounter fight? Or with an opponent he knows thing about? I can't recall Krillin fighting in a random bout, only in prepped matches.

I know Kahn would probably underestimate Krillin off the bat (due to him being human and all), but as soon a Krillin tipped his hat I think Kahn would go for his soul.

Krillin had a random encounter on namek, against some noname soldier of Freeza. He and Gohan one shot them. He had an another random encounter after the second budokai, when Piccolo Daimao's monster killed him. He was acting offensively, that's how he tried to protect the dragon ball(s?). And as I mentioned, on the first budokai, he didn't know anything about the opponent, he scared from fight, so kicked as he could.

Also I think if Kahn could steal his soul(ki) it would be like the Yakon scene. Not the exploding part, I mean, Krillins soul is not just a single thing like in MK. It would be more difficult to steal.

If Krillin comes out offensively and seriously, Kahn is done for. I am 100% sure if Killin came out conservatively though, that Kahn would just get back up.

Kahn's souls steal would act more like Ginyu's body swap, or Babidi's magic, more so than a ki focused attack. Since it is pure magic it would basically negate ki all together...except for in those special cases as shown throughout DBZ and GT. Ki may come from a person's life force (their soul), but it isn't their soul completely.

#18 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

SPITE

Krilin stomps.

#19 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@onilordasmodeus: Khan is Bullet timer max. krillin would fight Shao Khan like any World wrecker foes he has fought ...

@CadenceV2 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@CadenceV2:

Krillin doesn't know Kahn is a "world wrecker", and in the scans you posted Krillin's opponent got the first attack.

I hate to say it, but if Kahn attacks first, Krillin would be like "wtf, the is guy is slow" and not take him serious...then Kahn would kill him.

World Wrecker lol Liu Kang beats him as does a Mortal and depowered Raiden. C'mon now.

I didn't call him a world wrecker...you did. And with kahn's magic unrestrained, he can cause destruction on a global scale.

@Walzo said:

@onilordasmodeus:

I highly doubt a single punch from Kahn would kill Krillin.

Hell no Kahn couldn't one shot Krillin with a punch...but his magic could.

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@SSJLozza:

Random encounter. No knowledge. In character?

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Depends.

Is there knowledge on the opponents?

Where are they fighting?

Question: Has Krillin ever moved faster than thought?

I'm inclined to say Krillin owns Kahn in a physical fight due to his speed and strength, but Kahn's magic (TK, soul mainp., etc) is God-like so I can't count him out completely.

His durability not god-like though, so I don't see how is this last longer than 0.1 sec. The fight start, Krillin kick, SK fly away. This moment happened on the first budokai with Krillin.

His durability is super human though.

@CadenceV2:

How would Krillin act in the opening parts of a random encounter fight? Or with an opponent he knows thing about? I can't recall Krillin fighting in a random bout, only in prepped matches.

I know Kahn would probably underestimate Krillin off the bat (due to him being human and all), but as soon a Krillin tipped his hat I think Kahn would go for his soul.

Krillin had a random encounter on namek, against some noname soldier of Freeza. He and Gohan one shot them. He had an another random encounter after the second budokai, when Piccolo Daimao's monster killed him. He was acting offensively, that's how he tried to protect the dragon ball(s?). And as I mentioned, on the first budokai, he didn't know anything about the opponent, he scared from fight, so kicked as he could.

Also I think if Kahn could steal his soul(ki) it would be like the Yakon scene. Not the exploding part, I mean, Krillins soul is not just a single thing like in MK. It would be more difficult to steal.

If Krillin comes out offensively and seriously, Kahn is done for. I am 100% sure if Killin came out conservatively though, that Kahn would just get back up.

Kahn's souls steal would act more like Ginyu's body swap, or Babidi's magic, more so than a ki focused attack. Since it is pure magic it would basically negate ki all together...except for in those special cases as shown throughout DBZ and GT. Ki may come from a person's life force (their soul), but it isn't their soul completely.

I don't know what you mean by "isn't their soul completely" but when they die in db, on the other world, there are only a little cloud thing, that contain their mind. Those who are good enough, "hero", can keep their body. And this is the only difference. And they refer to those clouds as souls, IIRC. They didn't tell anything about ki as a separated thing. Only when Goku was coming back for one day, but that was because he had a ki limit for the living world. Even when the old Kaioshin gave his life to Goku, Goku only got the right to return to the living world.

Also SK's power depends on where are they fight, in his realm or outer world, if I know correctly.

#20 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234 said:

I don't know what you mean by "isn't their soul completely" but when they die in db, on the other world, there are only a little cloud thing, that contain their mind. Those who are good enough, "hero", can keep their body. And this is the only difference. And they refer to those clouds as souls, IIRC. They didn't tell anything about ki as a separated thing. Only when Goku was coming back for one day, but that was because he had a ki limit for the living world. Even when the old Kaioshin gave his life to Goku, Goku only got the right to return to the living world.

Also SK's power depends on where are they fight, in his realm or outer world, if I know correctly.

What I mean is basically exactly what you said.

When someone in DB/Z dies, their soul goes to another place and their ki is lost (either that or it just becomes stangnant). Think back to Vegeta and after he died. His soul went to hell, and I think it was in the Janemba movie where Goku said to Vegeta after he was restored, that he was suprised that Vegeta was as strong as he was since he had been dead so long. Same thing when Vegeta came back in the Buu saga and suddenly he had ki again. Ki (at least in the living realm) is the living force that is in everything; even though it can be focused through the soul/spirit, it isn't the soul/spirit.

Goku using ki in the otherworld is a completely different matter.

I'm not up on exactly why Goku was able to keep his body in the afterlife, but I would venture to say it's because someone somewhere allowed it. I can't prove this next part explicitly, but it seems to me that when Goku was in otherworld he used a different type of ki...like he was granted the ability to tap into a whole other power source. I only say this because living-world ki and otherworld ki are treated as separate things shown in the limited energy pool that Goku had for that one day. Whether I'm right or wrong about the particulars, I think it's pretty evident that even in the DB/Z universe the soul is a separate thing from ki.

About Kahn's power, Kahn is "stronger" in outworld due to that being the place where he has complete dominion (control over all the souls). There are scans showing that he has an omnipresent like preception in that realm as he can sense when new people/souls enter his domain. In Outworld he was able to blow up Raiden just by willing it from miles away, and from Outworld was where he was able to strip Earth of all life from across dimensions. Since the OP of this thread made this battle a random encounter though, and I'm assuming this takes place in a neutral setting, Kahn's magic would still be awsome (he'd have the power to merge planets and take souls easy), but i can't argue that he'd be an omnipresent-like being (i.e. think faster/as fast as Krillin could move) as he would be able to in Outworld.

In a neutral setting Krillin has all the advantage in physical speed and strength, but Kahn's magic is still a factor, and he can use it, activate it, at the speed of thought.

#21 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4062 posts) - - Show Bio

Krillen

Online
#22 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

I know more of what Krillin can do in cannon than Kahn so I'm not too confident, but I'm pretty sure Krillen can win this one. I mean he's by no means some insanely powerful juggernaut but he is very quick and has some good energy attacks. If he can get destructo disk to work then he might darn well one shot Kahn, unless Kahn can survive being cut in half.

#23 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@mypasswordis1234 said:

I don't know what you mean by "isn't their soul completely" but when they die in db, on the other world, there are only a little cloud thing, that contain their mind. Those who are good enough, "hero", can keep their body. And this is the only difference. And they refer to those clouds as souls, IIRC. They didn't tell anything about ki as a separated thing. Only when Goku was coming back for one day, but that was because he had a ki limit for the living world. Even when the old Kaioshin gave his life to Goku, Goku only got the right to return to the living world.

Also SK's power depends on where are they fight, in his realm or outer world, if I know correctly.

What I mean is basically exactly what you said.

When someone in DB/Z dies, their soul goes to another place and their ki is lost (either that or it just becomes stangnant). Think back to Vegeta and after he died. His soul went to hell, and I think it was in the Janemba movie where Goku said to Vegeta after he was restored, that he was suprised that Vegeta was as strong as he was since he had been dead so long. Same thing when Vegeta came back in the Buu saga and suddenly he had ki again. Ki (at least in the living realm) is the living force that is in everything; even though it can be focused through the soul/spirit, it isn't the soul/spirit.

Goku using ki in the otherworld is a completely different matter.

I'm not up on exactly why Goku was able to keep his body in the afterlife, but I would venture to say it's because someone somewhere allowed it. I can't prove this next part explicitly, but it seems to me that when Goku was in otherworld he used a different type of ki...like he was granted the ability to tap into a whole other power source. I only say this because living-world ki and otherworld ki are treated as separate things shown in the limited energy pool that Goku had for that one day. Whether I'm right or wrong about the particulars, I think it's pretty evident that even in the DB/Z universe the soul is a separate thing from ki.

About Kahn's power, Kahn is "stronger" in outworld due to that being the place where he has complete dominion (control over all the souls). There are scans showing that he has an omnipresent like preception in that realm as he can sense when new people/souls enter his domain. In Outworld he was able to blow up Raiden just by willing it from miles away, and from Outworld was where he was able to strip Earth of all life from across dimensions. Since the OP of this thread made this battle a random encounter though, and I'm assuming this takes place in a neutral setting, Kahn's magic would still be awsome (he'd have the power to merge planets and take souls easy), but i can't argue that he'd be an omnipresent-like being (i.e. think faster/as fast as Krillin could move) as he would be able to in Outworld.

In a neutral setting Krillin has all the advantage in physical speed and strength, but Kahn's magic is still a factor, and he can use it, activate it, at the speed of thought.

The non-canon things are inaccurate. For example, the extremely evil beings like Freeza, can't keep their body in hell. So that doesn't matter what Goku said in Janemba movie.When Vegeta came back in the Buu saga, he not suddenly had ki, he had while he was speaking with Emma(he almost destroyed that place by powering up) too on otherworld. He just got closer to Goku that's how he felt it.

Completely different matter than ki? No, it doesn't make sense. Goku trained his ki. If he would have use an another "power source". he would have train that power, not his ki.

His body was dead, that's how he had more stamina, and could train his ki easier.

Also, in character, Kahn would try to steal Krillin's soul immediately.

#24 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234 said:

The non-canon things are inaccurate. For example, the extremely evil beings like Freeza, can't keep their body in hell. So that doesn't matter what Goku said in Janemba movie.When Vegeta came back in the Buu saga, he not suddenly had ki, he had while he was speaking with Emma(he almost destroyed that place by powering up) too on otherworld. He just got closer to Goku that's how he felt it.

Completely different matter than ki? No, it doesn't make sense. Goku trained his ki. If he would have use an another "power source". he would have train that power, not his ki.

His body was dead, that's how he had more stamina, and could train his ki easier.

Also, in character, Kahn would try to steal Krillin's soul immediately.

I know that the Jenemba movie is non-canon, but look at the Vegeta/King Yemma scene again:

Maybe I miss spoke about Vegeta "suddenly" having ki again in when he got back to earth, because the fact is that he "suddenly" had ki again (or at least had access to it) when he regained his physical body at Yemma's. Your point about Goku being able to train harder since he was dead stands; maybe that's how it is, that ki is produced in the union between the body and the soul/spirit. Regardless, my only point stands that when a person is just a soul in DB/Z, they don't have access to any ki, and thus the soul is a separate thing from ki.

#25 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody who says Krillin, I'm convinced, has never played a Mortal Kombat game. That guy cheats so much.

#26 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@mypasswordis1234 said:

The non-canon things are inaccurate. For example, the extremely evil beings like Freeza, can't keep their body in hell. So that doesn't matter what Goku said in Janemba movie.When Vegeta came back in the Buu saga, he not suddenly had ki, he had while he was speaking with Emma(he almost destroyed that place by powering up) too on otherworld. He just got closer to Goku that's how he felt it.

Completely different matter than ki? No, it doesn't make sense. Goku trained his ki. If he would have use an another "power source". he would have train that power, not his ki.

His body was dead, that's how he had more stamina, and could train his ki easier.

Also, in character, Kahn would try to steal Krillin's soul immediately.

I know that the Jenemba movie is non-canon, but look at the Vegeta/King Yemma scene again:

Maybe I miss spoke about Vegeta "suddenly" having ki again in when he got back to earth, because the fact is that he "suddenly" had ki again (or at least had access to it) when he regained his physical body at Yemma's. Your point about Goku being able to train harder since he was dead stands; maybe that's how it is, that ki is produced in the union between the body and the soul/spirit. Regardless, my only point stands that when a person is just a soul in DB/Z, they don't have access to any ki, and thus the soul is a separate thing from ki.

Suddenly at Yemma? He just remembered what he did to Buu and realized his sacrificing was useless, so he got mad(I can understand his reason, who wouldn't got mad?). When he has body, he has ki. This is indisputable. When they don't have body, that soul is still just a ki, life force. If it is an evil ki, they purify it, but it will reincarnate. That's how Buu reincarnated/reborn as a good guy.

"they don't have access to any ki" - this is paradox, makes no sense to me as I said, those little clouds are ki too. But they have limited things allowed. Can't teleport anywhere, and such. So I think they can't manipulate/control ki without body either.

#27 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@mypasswordis1234 said:

The non-canon things are inaccurate. For example, the extremely evil beings like Freeza, can't keep their body in hell. So that doesn't matter what Goku said in Janemba movie.When Vegeta came back in the Buu saga, he not suddenly had ki, he had while he was speaking with Emma(he almost destroyed that place by powering up) too on otherworld. He just got closer to Goku that's how he felt it.

Completely different matter than ki? No, it doesn't make sense. Goku trained his ki. If he would have use an another "power source". he would have train that power, not his ki.

His body was dead, that's how he had more stamina, and could train his ki easier.

Also, in character, Kahn would try to steal Krillin's soul immediately.

I know that the Jenemba movie is non-canon, but look at the Vegeta/King Yemma scene again:

Maybe I miss spoke about Vegeta "suddenly" having ki again in when he got back to earth, because the fact is that he "suddenly" had ki again (or at least had access to it) when he regained his physical body at Yemma's. Your point about Goku being able to train harder since he was dead stands; maybe that's how it is, that ki is produced in the union between the body and the soul/spirit. Regardless, my only point stands that when a person is just a soul in DB/Z, they don't have access to any ki, and thus the soul is a separate thing from ki.

Suddenly at Yemma? He just remembered what he did to Buu and realized his sacrificing was useless, so he got mad(I can understand his reason, who wouldn't got mad?). When he has body, he has ki. This is indisputable. When they don't have body, that soul is still just a ki, life force. If it is an evil ki, they purify it, but it will reincarnate. That's how Buu reincarnated/reborn as a good guy.

"they don't have access to any ki" - this is paradox, makes no sense to me as I said, those little clouds are ki too. But they have limited things allowed. Can't teleport anywhere, and such. So I think they can't manipulate/control ki without body either.

Vegeta got mad and almost brought the house down, yes, but do you think if he got mad as a puff of smoke that it would have had the same effect?

This is where we are disconecting.

Yes, as shown in the Vegeta scene, when a person in DB/Z has a body, they have ki (a life force). But when they are just a puff of smoke (i.e. just a soul), they are dead, there is no life force, just the soul.

Here, check this out: http://www.usjjf.org/articles/chi.htm

Chi (qi) is described as being a living energy that flows through the body. One can increase this "energy" through training and meditation, among doing other things, and in DB/Z, ki, works the same way pretty much. The knowledge of how to use ki is is stored in the mind/soul/spirit, but the actual ki is in the body. When someone dies, their conection to their body, and thus their ki, is severed. Without a body, there can be no ki.

That was why I said I thought people in otherworld who have a body seemingly draw from a different pool of energy. I mean, how can they draw from a pool of "living energy" when they are dead? Or why would Goku "use up" his energy when visiting in the living world if that same energy can go back and forth when alive or dead? The only answer I can come up with is that they are different energies, and thus play by different rules.

- Maybe it's as simple as positive and negative.

- Maybe in otherworld, the people with bodies since they are dead, run on a below zero energy level, thus their energy level can go down to infinity and never be used up.

- Maybe in the living world, people with bodies run on positive energy that can go up to whatever level they have been able to achieve (through training and such), but as they use up their energy, and/or just live and get older, their ki level just gets closer to zero and thus they die.

- Maybe its as easy as a swith that can be fliped for one of the Kai's to where they can let someone go back and forth to use living energy vs ki in the afterlife.

Whatever the case, ki in the afterlife and ki in the living world have got to be somewhat different because they play by different rules.

#28 Posted by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@spinningbirdcake said:

Anybody who says Krillin, I'm convinced, has never played a Mortal Kombat game. That guy cheats so much.

LOL not on Easy ;)

#30 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@mypasswordis1234 said:

The non-canon things are inaccurate. For example, the extremely evil beings like Freeza, can't keep their body in hell. So that doesn't matter what Goku said in Janemba movie.When Vegeta came back in the Buu saga, he not suddenly had ki, he had while he was speaking with Emma(he almost destroyed that place by powering up) too on otherworld. He just got closer to Goku that's how he felt it.

Completely different matter than ki? No, it doesn't make sense. Goku trained his ki. If he would have use an another "power source". he would have train that power, not his ki.

His body was dead, that's how he had more stamina, and could train his ki easier.

Also, in character, Kahn would try to steal Krillin's soul immediately.

I know that the Jenemba movie is non-canon, but look at the Vegeta/King Yemma scene again:

Maybe I miss spoke about Vegeta "suddenly" having ki again in when he got back to earth, because the fact is that he "suddenly" had ki again (or at least had access to it) when he regained his physical body at Yemma's. Your point about Goku being able to train harder since he was dead stands; maybe that's how it is, that ki is produced in the union between the body and the soul/spirit. Regardless, my only point stands that when a person is just a soul in DB/Z, they don't have access to any ki, and thus the soul is a separate thing from ki.

Suddenly at Yemma? He just remembered what he did to Buu and realized his sacrificing was useless, so he got mad(I can understand his reason, who wouldn't got mad?). When he has body, he has ki. This is indisputable. When they don't have body, that soul is still just a ki, life force. If it is an evil ki, they purify it, but it will reincarnate. That's how Buu reincarnated/reborn as a good guy.

"they don't have access to any ki" - this is paradox, makes no sense to me as I said, those little clouds are ki too. But they have limited things allowed. Can't teleport anywhere, and such. So I think they can't manipulate/control ki without body either.

Vegeta got mad and almost brought the house down, yes, but do you think if he got mad as a puff of smoke that it would have had the same effect?

This is where we are disconecting.

Yes, as shown in the Vegeta scene, when a person in DB/Z has a body, they have ki (a life force). But when they are just a puff of smoke (i.e. just a soul), they are dead, there is no life force, just the soul.

Here, check this out: http://www.usjjf.org/articles/chi.htm

Chi (qi) is described as being a living energy that flows through the body. One can increase this "energy" through training and meditation, among doing other things, and in DB/Z, ki, works the same way pretty much. The knowledge of how to use ki is is stored in the mind/soul/spirit, but the actual ki is in the body. When someone dies, their conection to their body, and thus their ki, is severed. Without a body, there can be no ki.

That was why I said I thought people in otherworld who have a body seemingly draw from a different pool of energy. I mean, how can they draw from a pool of "living energy" when they are dead? Or why would Goku "use up" his energy when visiting in the living world if that same energy can go back and forth when alive or dead? The only answer I can come up with is that they are different energies, and thus play by different rules.

- Maybe it's as simple as positive and negative.

- Maybe in otherworld, the people with bodies since they are dead, run on a below zero energy level, thus their energy level can go down to infinity and never be used up.

- Maybe in the living world, people with bodies run on positive energy that can go up to whatever level they have been able to achieve (through training and such), but as they use up their energy, and/or just live and get older, their ki level just gets closer to zero and thus they die.

- Maybe its as easy as a swith that can be fliped for one of the Kai's to where they can let someone go back and forth to use living energy vs ki in the afterlife.

Whatever the case, ki in the afterlife and ki in the living world have got to be somewhat different because they play by different rules.

I told in my previous reply. I think they can't do such things without having the right to keep their body. I can't officially quote it to you, same as you can't officially prove the other power source thing, but I think this is logical. The cloud doesn't have the right/removed from other abilities, such telekinetic. That only contain their essence, their mind, like a facebook page with chat ability, lol.

The "real life ki" is not a proof in a dbz ki debate. It's different. Firstly, the dbz ki is built from 3 components: mind, courage, energy. IRL it's just a placebo-like small level hormone and/or blood, muscle manipulation. Of course, a dead people can't do anything with chi, because he can't do any other thing either, only being dead. In the dbz ki used more versatile, and on extremely higher level. It's like a comparing the parents shouting the santa claus theory to their kids when they doubting it (lying, manipulating) with Martian Manhunter's mindrape and memory replacing.

Also it's just a word. Just because it's called life force, it doesn't has to be always related to life. But after all, when they die, they not die completely/literally, like us. Did Vegeta look like a dead? The only difference was the glory above his head. Similarly as we are free, we can do whatever we want - except those that aren't allowed, or physically impossible. Their rights just strongly limited, after they die.

They play by different rules, but I mentioned the difference between living and dead fighter.

" His body was dead, that's how he had more stamina, and could train his ki easier."

With another words, their body are weaker/vulnerable than their ki. Even if their brain crushed, they can continue after some second.

My "maybe" theory is: Those little clouds are ki, but 1 component(energy) forced to zero.

#31 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (1839 posts) - - Show Bio

Krillin takes this!

#32 Posted by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

In outworld, Kahn can't be beaten.