#1 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio
Battle takes place in the jungle,no weapons.
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#2 Posted by The_Martian (36980 posts) - - Show Bio

Cause its in the Jungle I'm going with Shanna. Anywhere else, I'm not sure.

#3 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Misty.It's in the jungle,which Shanna knows very well but I believe Misty's intellect and fighting skill will keep her in it,since Shanna isn't allowed any weapons.

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#4 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

I was thinking Shanna (depending on which Shanna obviously, but I was going with Frank Cho's, Marvel Knights Shanna since that's my favorite) but then I looked at what Misty has in her arm. A freeze ray (which could probably be dodged but would be dangerous especially if Shanna didn't see it coming) and an anti-gravity field generator (not sure what that would do since I haven't seen it). I think those outweigh Shanna's physical advantages if they fight face to face for any real length of time. Of course in the jungle Shanna could make it so she doesn't have to deal with those directly or at least not until she understands them. She could disappear and keep an eye on her to figure her out, or she could lead her into a trap where she has to face some dinosaurs and that would give her a better look at what Misty can do (and maybe even hurt her if the dinosaurs do well). Shanna is very smart and once she knows how Misty moves and reacts to certain things she could engage her, probably going for stealth so she can take Misty out before she can really use her arm. With her ability to move invisibly through the jungle she could get  Misty to walk right by her and then snap her neck as she passes.

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#5 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"I was thinking Shanna (depending on which Shanna obviously, but I was going with Frank Cho's, Marvel Knights Shanna since that's my favorite) but then I looked at what Misty has in her arm. A freeze ray (which could probably be dodged but would be dangerous especially if Shanna didn't see it coming) and an anti-gravity field generator (not sure what that would do since I haven't seen it). I think those outweigh Shanna's physical advantages if they fight face to face for any real length of time. Of course in the jungle Shanna could make it so she doesn't have to deal with those directly or at least not until she understands them. She could disappear and keep an eye on her to figure her out, or she could lead her into a trap where she has to face some dinosaurs and that would give her a better look at what Misty can do (and maybe even hurt her if the dinosaurs do well). Shanna is very smart and once she knows how Misty moves and reacts to certain things she could engage her, probably going for stealth so she can take Misty out before she can really use her arm. With her ability to move invisibly through the jungle she could get  Misty to walk right by her and then snap her neck as she passes.
"

So do you think that Shanna is smarter than Misty or just a smarter fighter? And also do you think that Misty is a good enough fighter to go hand to hand with her without even using those weapons the arm is equipped with?
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#6 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't know how smart either of them are really. I honestly don't know a lot about Misty (seen her a few times in other people's books but I've only read a few issues of Heroes for Hire and not much else where she's a main character). Shanna's intelligence isn't very clear, but it's portrayed as superhuman in some senses. She learns with incredible speed and can apply that knowledge to her benefit. Below is an example of her intelligence how I think it could be used in this fight.

Explaining how she beat a T-Rex
After studying Misty from a distance I think she could come up with a way to beat her (knowing the right angle to come at her from, knowing how aware of her surroundings she is, knowing how she moves, how quickly she reacts, etc). I don't know if Misty is  good enough fighter to take her without the weapons in her arm. Shanna could put her down with a single hit and she has the speed (she's at least peak human in all areas, probably low level superhuman) to do it. Do you think Misty could avoid her hits for long? Could she land her own? Is her arm powerful enough to put down Shanna if it connects? I don't know exactly, which is why I had Shanna taking this more like a hunt than a face to face fight. It plays to her strengths and makes sense. She doesn't have to worry about the arm if she can sneak up on Misty and kill her before she uses it.

















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#7 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio


Ok...Buckshot,fair argument.I think I can top this though and prove Misty wins.

-Misty isn't just an ok fighter,in fact she's possibly the most underrated fighter in the Marvel U.She bested Cage in their first fight,she embarrased Bushmaster by throwing him around with one arm which caused him to hold a personal crudge on her(Don't forget,Bushmaster has the same exact powers as Cage,as far as strength and durability).She also owned Rhino and her own partner Colleen Wing and she once held her own against Sabretooth and Constrictor at the same time.

Here is some brief scans showing a few feats.

Owning Rhino



Easily Tossing Bushmaster


Assessing Colleen Wing's Fighting styles


Knocking Colleen's block off


Vs.Colleen


















-The second thing is Misty's arm.It's fully equipped with Iron Man's repulsor blast like he has in the gauntlets in his suit,which could turn the jungle into a log mansion.Her latest arm is created from a combination of titanium for bending...Diamond and Antarctic vibranium as opposed to the original steel version.This arm also has a cryogenic energy beam that can liquify any known metal except for adamantium.

-Lastly,I believe Misty has an exceptionally gifted intellect.She makes a living finding people who don't want to be found and is an excellent detective,she found and brought down a bunch of criminals during Civil War...she has also matched wits with Tony Stark on occassion.Shanna's ability to create a stretegy for taking out that T-Rex was pretty clever but how would she do against a creature more intellegent,with the skills and built in weaponry to match.
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#8 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
-Misty isn't just an ok fighter,in fact she's possibly the most underrated fighter in the Marvel U.She bested Cage in their first fight,she embarrased Bushmaster by throwing him around with one arm which caused him to hold a personal crudge on her(Don't forget,Bushmaster has the same exact powers as Cage,as far as strength and durability).She also owned Rhino and her own partner Colleen Wing and she once held her own against Sabretooth and Constrictor at the same time.


That's all well and good, but it really doesn't matter. You're trying to make this about fighting skill when that really doesn't weigh into it if it goes how I've suggested. You need to tell me why it won't. Why won't Shanna be able to disappear into the jungle? Why won't she able to get a look at Misty and guage her abilities? Why won't she be able to kill her stealthily and before she can do anything about it? As for the scans, throwing Bushmaster around means what? He clearly didn't see her coming, didn't know they were about to get into a fight, and she really didn't do much to him at all. If her "besting Cage" is anything like this then it's nothing worth mentioning. Her fight with Colleen seems to be missing a few pages where they were interrupted. Looks like Misty was getting beaten and didn't win until Colleen was trying to hit someone else (while Misty was bruised and bleeding on the ground) and Misty surprised her by coming into the fight. Rhino is slow and stupid, two things that Shanna is not, and there's no telling what went on in the rest of that fight anyway. You need better examples.

Vance Astro said:

-The second thing is Misty's arm.It's fully equipped with Iron Man's repulsor blast like he has in the gauntlets in his suit,which could turn the jungle into a log mansion.Her latest arm is created from a combination of titanium for bending...Diamond and Antarctic vibranium as opposed to the original steel version.This arm also has a cryogenic energy beam that can liquify any known metal except for adamantium.
I know about her arm, I already mentioned the weapons it posesses (I think you've mixed it up btw, the cryogenic beam freezes, the antarctic vibranium is what destroys metal). You were the one that said, "And also do you think that Misty is a good enough fighter to go hand to hand with her without even using those weapons the arm is equipped with?" I thought we were ignoring the weapons in the arm. In any case, my first post suggests how she might avoid what it can do.

Vance Astro said:
-Lastly,I believe Misty has an exceptionally gifted intellect.She makes a living finding people who don't want to be found and is an excellent detective,she found and brought down a bunch of criminals during Civil War...she has also matched wits with Tony Stark on occassion.Shanna's ability to create a stretegy for taking out that T-Rex was pretty clever but how would she do against a creature more intellegent,with the skills and built in weaponry to match.

Are her detective skills going to be useful here? There are a lot of different kinds of detectives that figure things out different ways. Will Misty be able to find Shanna in the jungle? Will she know what to look for in this environment? Even if she knows, will she be able to find it if Shanna covers her tracks? Shanna knows the jungle, knows how to avoid predators with better senses than Misty and how to sneak up on them. Will Misty's knowledge and methods be useful in this situation? I think most of what Shanna displayed against the T-Rex will work against Misty. Gauging her reaction speed and learning how she moves are things that she can use. Add that in with knowing how to stay hidden and I think it's more than possible for her to beat Misty here.
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#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Vance Astro said:
-Misty isn't just an ok fighter,in fact she's possibly the most underrated fighter in the Marvel U.She bested Cage in their first fight,she embarrased Bushmaster by throwing him around with one arm which caused him to hold a personal crudge on her(Don't forget,Bushmaster has the same exact powers as Cage,as far as strength and durability).She also owned Rhino and her own partner Colleen Wing and she once held her own against Sabretooth and Constrictor at the same time.


That's all well and good, but it really doesn't matter. You're trying to make this about fighting skill when that really doesn't weigh into it if it goes how I've suggested. You need to tell me why it won't. Why won't Shanna be able to disappear into the jungle? Why won't she able to get a look at Misty and guage her abilities? Why won't she be able to kill her stealthily and before she can do anything about it? As for the scans, throwing Bushmaster around means what? He clearly didn't see her coming, didn't know they were about to get into a fight, and she really didn't do much to him at all. If her "besting Cage" is anything like this then it's nothing worth mentioning. Her fight with Colleen seems to be missing a few pages where they were interrupted. Looks like Misty was getting beaten and didn't win until Colleen was trying to hit someone else (while Misty was bruised and bleeding on the ground) and Misty surprised her by coming into the fight. Rhino is slow and stupid, two things that Shanna is not, and there's no telling what went on in the rest of that fight anyway. You need better examples.

Vance Astro said:

-The second thing is Misty's arm.It's fully equipped with Iron Man's repulsor blast like he has in the gauntlets in his suit,which could turn the jungle into a log mansion.Her latest arm is created from a combination of titanium for bending...Diamond and Antarctic vibranium as opposed to the original steel version.This arm also has a cryogenic energy beam that can liquify any known metal except for adamantium.
I know about her arm, I already mentioned the weapons it posesses (I think you've mixed it up btw, the cryogenic beam freezes, the antarctic vibranium is what destroys metal). You were the one that said, "And also do you think that Misty is a good enough fighter to go hand to hand with her without even using those weapons the arm is equipped with?" I thought we were ignoring the weapons in the arm. In any case, my first post suggests how she might avoid what it can do.

Vance Astro said:
-Lastly,I believe Misty has an exceptionally gifted intellect.She makes a living finding people who don't want to be found and is an excellent detective,she found and brought down a bunch of criminals during Civil War...she has also matched wits with Tony Stark on occassion.Shanna's ability to create a stretegy for taking out that T-Rex was pretty clever but how would she do against a creature more intellegent,with the skills and built in weaponry to match.

Are her detective skills going to be useful here? There are a lot of different kinds of detectives that figure things out different ways. Will Misty be able to find Shanna in the jungle? Will she know what to look for in this environment? Even if she knows, will she be able to find it if Shanna covers her tracks? Shanna knows the jungle, knows how to avoid predators with better senses than Misty and how to sneak up on them. Will Misty's knowledge and methods be useful in this situation? I think most of what Shanna displayed against the T-Rex will work against Misty. Gauging her reaction speed and learning how she moves are things that she can use. Add that in with knowing how to stay hidden and I think it's more than possible for her to beat Misty here."

Ok..the point I was trying to make with Bushmaster and Cage is,they are both physically way stonger than Misty and at the time Cage was a far better fighter,but if her fighting skill doesn't mean much here because the fight is in the jungle,I still don't think Shanna could injure or kill her before she could react.

The point I was also making about her detective skills is,you said that Shanna wold sneak up on her,which means she would be hiding.I was attempting to say that Misty could possibly find her.

We could totally ignore what weapons are in the arm,but a punch with arm,even if it's not her best shot is going to knock Shanna out.As you can see from her fight with Colleen,she doesn't ever punch her with her left arm,only grasp.

As far as what Shanna did to the T-rex...Shanna would be more likely to know what the T-Rex is fully capable of in the Savage Land as compared to what she knows about a woman with a bionic arm,she has never met.In order for her to gauge Misty's reactions...she would have to do something other than wait for the right time to attack,and with no weapons;how is she going to do that? I mean if Misty is just alking along looking for her,what is she reacting to?
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#10 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"
Battle takes place in the jungle,no weapons.
"

Putting this battle in the Jungle, you pretty much gave Shanna the advantage here. The jungle is where she lives. Misty Doesn't have as much experience fighting the jungle like Shanna has. Shanna for the win....
#11 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Vance Astro said:
"
Battle takes place in the jungle,no weapons.
"

Putting this battle in the Jungle, you pretty much gave Shanna the advantage here. The jungle is where she lives. Misty Doesn't have as much experience fighting the jungle like Shanna has. Shanna for the win....
"

A fight against the devil in hell can be won so I don't see why Shanna can't lose in the Jungle.
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#12 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"A fight against the devil in hell can be won so I don't see why Shanna can't lose in the Jungle."
Who's beaten Satan in Hell besides Ghost Rider himself (who is a demon, himself)?
#13 Edited by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Vance Astro said:
"A fight against the devil in hell can be won so I don't see why Shanna can't lose in the Jungle."
Who's beaten Satan in Hell besides Ghost Rider himself (who is a demon, himself)?
"
Ghost Rider isn't a demon...he's an Angel or something like that.
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#14 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Ok..the point I was trying to make with Bushmaster and Cage is,they are both physically way stonger than Misty and at the time Cage was a far better fighter,but if her fighting skill doesn't mean much here because the fight is in the jungle,I still don't think Shanna could injure or kill her before she could react.

The point I was also making about her detective skills is,you said that Shanna wold sneak up on her,which means she would be hiding.I was attempting to say that Misty could possibly find her.

We could totally ignore what weapons are in the arm,but a punch with arm,even if it's not her best shot is going to knock Shanna out.As you can see from her fight with Colleen,she doesn't ever punch her with her left arm,only grasp.

As far as what Shanna did to the T-rex...Shanna would be more likely to know what the T-Rex is fully capable of in the Savage Land as compared to what she knows about a woman with a bionic arm,she has never met.In order for her to gauge Misty's reactions...she would have to do something other than wait for the right time to attack,and with no weapons;how is she going to do that? I mean if Misty is just alking along looking for her,what is she reacting to?"

If Misty doesn't see her coming I don't see why Shanna couldn't put a fist through her head or break her neck before she realized what was going on.

How would Misty find her though? Is she any good at jungle tracking? Is she as good as Shanna? As I said, different detectives do things different ways and know different things, just because Misty's a "detective" doesn't mean she automatically knows how to find someone in the jungle.

And if she can't land a punch or doesn't get time to throw one, the arm power of the arm doesn't matter much. Also, Shanna is a fair deal stronger and more resiliant than Colleen or a normal human.

It seems like you didn't read my first post. I suggested that not only could Shanna just hide and watch, she could also lure Misty to some other creatures and then watch her fight. Even without that though, watching Misty move through the jungle should tell her something. If she hears a noise and turns to it, that would be a clue as to Misty's reaction speed as well as her general awareness depending on how startled she is. Observing how easily she gets through obstacles (vines, downed trees, holes, etc) could tell her how agile and maneuverable Misty is. If Misty starts running (after something chases her, if she thinks she sees Shanna and goes after her, whatever) that's an example of her speed. There's probably a lot more as well. Shanna's mind works like that and she's good at figuring that stuff out, plus she can take as much time as she needs to.
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#15 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Ghost Rider isn't a demon...he's an Angel or something like that."


Demon or Angel, they somewhat fit the same category. They are just the opposite of each other.
#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Ok..the point I was trying to make with Bushmaster and Cage is,they are both physically way stonger than Misty and at the time Cage was a far better fighter,but if her fighting skill doesn't mean much here because the fight is in the jungle,I still don't think Shanna could injure or kill her before she could react.

The point I was also making about her detective skills is,you said that Shanna wold sneak up on her,which means she would be hiding.I was attempting to say that Misty could possibly find her.

We could totally ignore what weapons are in the arm,but a punch with arm,even if it's not her best shot is going to knock Shanna out.As you can see from her fight with Colleen,she doesn't ever punch her with her left arm,only grasp.

As far as what Shanna did to the T-rex...Shanna would be more likely to know what the T-Rex is fully capable of in the Savage Land as compared to what she knows about a woman with a bionic arm,she has never met.In order for her to gauge Misty's reactions...she would have to do something other than wait for the right time to attack,and with no weapons;how is she going to do that? I mean if Misty is just alking along looking for her,what is she reacting to?"

If Misty doesn't see her coming I don't see why Shanna couldn't put a fist through her head or break her neck before she realized what was going on.

How would Misty find her though? Is she any good at jungle tracking? Is she as good as Shanna? As I said, different detectives do things different ways and know different things, just because Misty's a "detective" doesn't mean she automatically knows how to find someone in the jungle.

And if she can't land a punch or doesn't get time to throw one, the arm power of the arm doesn't matter much. Also, Shanna is a fair deal stronger and more resiliant than Colleen or a normal human.

It seems like you didn't read my first post. I suggested that not only could Shanna just hide and watch, she could also lure Misty to some other creatures and then watch her fight. Even without that though, watching Misty move through the jungle should tell her something. If she hears a noise and turns to it, that would be a clue as to Misty's reaction speed as well as her general awareness depending on how startled she is. Observing how easily she gets through obstacles (vines, downed trees, holes, etc) could tell her how agile and maneuverable Misty is. If Misty starts running (after something chases her, if she thinks she sees Shanna and goes after her, whatever) that's an example of her speed. There's probably a lot more as well. Shanna's mind works like that and she's good at figuring that stuff out, plus she can take as much time as she needs to."

Ok.Then let me ask you another question.How fast s Shanna?

I can agree if Misty doesn't see Shanna coming,she's f#cked...she's not very durable and Shanna is really strong.

As for Misty finding Shanna,I guess i'm reaching on that one.To my knowledge Misty has only been to the Savage Land once,when she helped Namor and Namorita fight Super-Skrull.So i'm not sure how she would find Shanna,if she could at all.

Shanna is stronger than a normal human but so are Cage and Rhino.

Let me ask you another question.If this fight wasn't in the Jungle,do you think Misty would beat her.If the was maybe,in an open field or in a closed in space,a building or something...do you think Misty would win?
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#17 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

She's a nazi supersoldier built to genetic perfection. All her attributes (including speed) are at least peak human or higher (I think higher because she's stronger than a dozen men and I'm not sure even a peak human could hold open the jaws of a T-Rex).

They may be stronger than normal humans (and stronger than Shanna), but strength isn't the reason for the win here. It's more about stealth and the environment.

Not sure who would win outside of the jungle. Having a better understanding of the environment would no longer be an advantage Shanna posessed, but I think her physical attributes are enough that there could be a close fight (if Misty isn't using the weapons in her arm) that I don't know the winner of.

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#18 Edited by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio

Misty Knight wins.

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#19 Posted by BIackFlash (1909 posts) - - Show Bio

Shanna will use the environment to her advantage

#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio

Misty could just destroy the environment.

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#21 Posted by Ellocobruja (559 posts) - - Show Bio

Misty Wins