I'll state a case for Shang-Chi as he's worked with Iron Fist and he's top 2 Marvel martial artists but I need to know some serious Shiva feats,I know she's an impressive martial artist and Batgirl's mom but that's about it.
@jashro44: Not at all mate, he's been around since 1974-90 even making 2 solo series with more than 100 issues each. In modern days though, he's doesn't have much appearances.
Shang Chi both rounds. He seems to have actual powers, unlike Lady Shiva who seems to be more Batman's level. Shang Chi turns rubies into dust, easily breaks through metal, moves fast enough to cause a minor whirlwind, is good enough to beat the likes of Wolverine and be equal with Iron Fist and be described by Black Panther as "the best" and more. He's also outfought and out-agilitied spider-man twice, broken his webs, and hurt 80 tonner bricks like the Thing.
@ghostravage: Shiva is regarded as the deadliest assassin and arguably the most skilled martial artist (excluding Karate Kid) in the DCU. Batman has been quoted saying that Shiva "may well be the best fighter alive." She is able to anticipate the moves of other by reading their body language, which gives her a leg up on opponents. Every moves Lady Shiva makes is geared toward one thing only... To kill.
However, it is only my opinion that she would win.
@darkraiden Is anyone able to clarify whether or not Shang-Chi has powers? I have read that he has the power to manipulate chi. In one instance he used his chi to be able to detect a psychically hidden Jean Grey. Lets not forget that he has used his chi to deflect bullets.. Yet, he is still considered non-powered by a lot of people, including comicvine.
@jashro44: Not at all mate, he's been around since 1974-90 even making 2 solo series with more than 100 issues each. In modern days though, he's doesn't have much appearances.
What I mean is he doesn't seem to have a lot of note worthy fights against other fighters. This is based mostly on what I have seen. I think its because he just hasn't fought a lot of other top tiers. He has been able to match his rival the cat who was skilled enough to make deadpool look like a novice (the argument can be made deadpool is a fan boy of the cat which can play a role), I think he has a few fights with iron fist but I think they pretty much all have context to them (willing to be corrected on that), he defeated ghostmaker who has been able to hold his own with daredevil (He beat daredevil but I recall there being context as to why ghostmaker won). There is his sparring match with Steve where he floored cap, but IIRC cap got back up and floored him back. He has danced around silver samurai as well for a page but that fight didn't last very long. He fought Elektra while sipping his noodles however I hear mixed opinions of Elektra and I don't know what to think of her....
He does have a lot of amazing feats when it comes to chi, and pressure points, and knowledge but I haven't seen much in terms of winning fights to suggest he can take shiva. I'm willing to be open to correction on that though.I just don't know if he has any wins or fights against other martial artists which suggest him taking a majority on shiva.
Shiva has been able to one shot bronze tiger IIRC (I know he once stated it would take the entire league of assassins to take shiva down), fights evenly with batman, beat connor hawke and humiliated nightwing at the same time, she beat cassandra cain once (All though she also lost to Cass twice admittedly), while she was pregnant she stomped david cain while david was in his prime (David Cain in his prime stalemated deathstroke), and a few other stuff. Assuming she isn't jobbing she should edge out a majority.
Shang Chi both rounds. He seems to have actual powers, unlike Lady Shiva who seems to be more Batman's level. Shang Chi turns rubies into dust, easily breaks through metal, moves fast enough to cause a minor whirlwind, is good enough to beat the likes of Wolverine and be equal with Iron Fist and be described by Black Panther as "the best" and more. He's also outfought and out-agilitied spider-man twice, broken his webs, and hurt 80 tonner bricks like the Thing.
The only time he beat wolverine was during origins and wolverine was going through his whole berserker phase. That fight continuity wise takes place in the past, years later shang chi would encounter bone claw wolverine who would beat him quite decisively. Also origins pretty much ends with shang chi bowing to wolverine as "the master" or something along those lines.
Not sure what you mean by "out-agiliated" spider-man twice. They fought once when Peter was an experience teenager, which isn't too impressive because Peter was also struggling with the enforcers in that decade. Current Peter>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Teenage Peter, its not even up for debate. He has had significant improvement. I'm assuming the other encounter is spider-island when shang chi trained spider-man and he didn't "out-agiliate" spider-man there. What black panther states is irrelevant especially considering shiva has been refereed to as the best fighter in the DCU on multiple occasions by batman and a few other people.
As for hurting the thing if we are going to take PIS feats I will just bring up the time Shiva was owning shadow dragon who not only was dancing around superman but actually made superman state shadow dragon was faster then him. So high end feats for Shiva make her faster then superman....
@jashro44: Not at all mate, he's been around since 1974-90 even making 2 solo series with more than 100 issues each. In modern days though, he's doesn't have much appearances.
What I mean is he doesn't seem to have a lot of note worthy fights against other fighters. This is based mostly on what I have seen. I think its because he just hasn't fought a lot of other top tiers. He has been able to match his rival the cat who was skilled enough to make deadpool look like a novice (the argument can be made deadpool is a fan boy of the cat which can play a role), I think he has a few fights with iron fist but I think they pretty much all have context to them (willing to be corrected on that), he defeated ghostmaker who has been able to hold his own with daredevil (He beat daredevil but I recall there being context as to why ghostmaker won). There is his sparring match with Steve where he floored cap, but IIRC cap got back up and floored him back. He has danced around silver samurai as well for a page but that fight didn't last very long. He fought Elektra while sipping his noodles however I hear mixed opinions of Elektra and I don't know what to think of her....
He does have a lot of amazing feats when it comes to chi, and pressure points, and knowledge but I haven't seen much in terms of winning fights to suggest he can take shiva. I'm willing to be open to correction on that though.I just don't know if he has any wins or fights against other martial artists which suggest him taking a majority on shiva.
Shiva has been able to one shot bronze tiger IIRC (I know he once stated it would take the entire league of assassins to take shiva down), fights evenly with batman, beat connor hawke and humiliated nightwing at the same time, she beat cassandra cain once (All though she also lost to Cass twice admittedly), while she was pregnant she stomped david cain while david was in his prime (David Cain in his prime stalemated deathstroke), and a few other stuff. Assuming she isn't jobbing she should edge out a majority.
Shang Chi both rounds. He seems to have actual powers, unlike Lady Shiva who seems to be more Batman's level. Shang Chi turns rubies into dust, easily breaks through metal, moves fast enough to cause a minor whirlwind, is good enough to beat the likes of Wolverine and be equal with Iron Fist and be described by Black Panther as "the best" and more. He's also outfought and out-agilitied spider-man twice, broken his webs, and hurt 80 tonner bricks like the Thing.
The only time he beat wolverine was during origins and wolverine was going through his whole berserker phase. That fight continuity wise takes place in the past, years later shang chi would encounter bone claw wolverine who would beat him quite decisively. Also origins pretty much ends with shang chi bowing to wolverine as "the master" or something along those lines.
Not sure what you mean by "out-agiliated" spider-man twice. They fought once when Peter was an experience teenager, which isn't too impressive because Peter was also struggling with the enforcers in that decade. Current Peter>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Teenage Peter, its not even up for debate. He has had significant improvement. I'm assuming the other encounter is spider-island when shang chi trained spider-man and he didn't "out-agiliate" spider-man there. What black panther states is irrelevant especially considering shiva has been refereed to as the best fighter in the DCU on multiple occasions by batman and a few other people.
As for hurting the thing if we are going to take PIS feats I will just bring up the time Shiva was owning shadow dragon who not only was dancing around superman but actually made superman state shadow dragon was faster then him. So high end feats for Shiva make her faster then superman....
Shang Chi has consistent feats with these though. They're not high end at all. His high end feat is straight up blocking/tanking a 100 tonner's punch with seemingly no severe ill effect (Hiroshim or w/e, some guy with Hulk).
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Maybe that's the same fight which would lead to my mistake, but he's clearly superior to Spidey easily in both instances.
And yeah Wolverine was having berserk problems.....he still managed to fight with skill and pretty calm for the most part, and Shang Chi beat him. That's a feat.
He's also fell several stories through concrete, easily beat guys who easily block bullets from multiple shooters, he's knocked down radio towers with one hit, and beaten a doombot. Like i said, he's consistently more superhuman than Lady Shiva seems to be thus he wins.
My general feeling is Shiva takes both rounds. But it is good to see some old Shang Chi scans. I do think Marvel has been making him more prominent again, so maybe he will end up being top dog here. Any good stuff from his Secret Avengers issues?
Don't bring it here. You've already BS'd your way in two other threads, lost all credibility, and act like you're king stuff.
BS'd? I took an L on the Rogues's thread but I still haven't conceded on the Iron Fist vs Cain argument,your logic is severely warped,it isn't even logic.
@jeanralphio: Look up the words you type before you post them, child. There's absolutely nothing ironic about me criticizing your terrible thread and me making the simple mistake of confusing 2 characters at 3:00 in the morning
@texasdeathmatch: You didn't criticize the thread,you criticized my fandom of Iron Fist while not even knowing the difference between Shang-Chi and Iron Fist. I'll give you the terrible thread though,I severely underestimated the rogues.
@jeanralphio: Not going to repeat myself here because clearly you lack the comprehension skills to understand what I've been saying several times now. Please continue writing nonsensical posts like this one, because they're hilarious:
Shang Chi looks awesome on paper, but has he actually beat any credible fighters?
In a lot of books, without chi, he has stalemated Iron Fist or fought him to a stand still a few times. But current Iron Fist has had a LOT more training since their previous spars.
He's landed a hit on Steve Rogers in a spar, but Steve got the better of him. They were busy talking though.
He's about to go up against Gorgon to take control of the hand.
Shang Chi has a lot of other really cool feats but I don't remember them off the top of my head right now.
@slimj87d: Cool, I've seen the Steve Rogers sparring scans. Wasn't aware of the Gorgon fight though, that should be interesting. Do you have any scans of his fights with IF?
@jeanralphio: I've already admit that I made a mistake. It was late at night and I wasn't exactly sober. Honestly, you seem a little too into this and it's getting creepy. Drop it. You're not going to get the satisfaction you seem to be striving for.
@slimj87d: Cool, I've seen the Steve Rogers sparring scans. Wasn't aware of the Gorgon fight though, that should be interesting. Do you have any scans of his fights with IF?
@jeanralphio: I've already admit that I made a mistake. It was late at night and I wasn't exactly sober. Honestly, you seem a little too into this and it's getting creepy. Drop it. You're not going to get the satisfaction you seem to be striving for.
I don't, it was during that time Marvel published black and white comics. They pretty much traded and blocked dozens of multiple strikes on single panels.
Check these scans out. He fights 3 other martial artist at the same time and manages to actually chop and slice a metal sword with his hand.
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He also helped mentally prepare Wolverine and beat him on one of their encounters. This isn't when Logan was having the crazy mutation. Wolverine then beats him later. But NOTABLE strength feat, he holds a 300+ lb Wolverien with one hand and tosses him back into the arena. I would say Shang Chi can lift at least 1000lbs over his head if he can do this.
What I mean is he doesn't seem to have a lot of note worthy fights against other fighters. This is based mostly on what I have seen. I think its because he just hasn't fought a lot of other top tiers.
Shang Chi doesn't have much ABC feats like many other more popular Martial Artists like Wolverine, Daredevil or Iron Fist... But his skill is consistently shown all the time...
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He can deliver the same deadly blows Shiva can, the fact that he's a pacifist and still manages to fight most people who aren't holding back is something worth the mention. The Black Panther statement scan is already uploaded, but Shang Chi was receiving such compliments since classic days...
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He's also extremely agile...
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Really, that jump is WAY over peak human IMO...
At least from what i've seen about both Shiva and Chi, their striking speed is comparable, slightly leaning towards Chi tough...
He can deliver 4 KOing blows before the person even moves from the first blow...
For real, he's like a softer version of Wonder Woman as long as Multitasking/reflexes matters...
Also, he may not look like it, but he can tank HUGE hits and stay strong...
Not only this is an awesome durability feat, but a speed feat as well, since it's visible how far he was and he was still able to block Hiroim's attack when he was 1 second from hitting her...
In skill i think both are pretty even, now, i don't know about her striking force, but Shang Chi surely is a beast in that department...
For example, he can make pretty big holes in thick rock walls...
As well as sending someone as big and heavy like Ben flying in the air by kicking it...
This striking force is consistent throughout the years mate... Even more modern instances keep this stats...
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Sending people flying over cement walls just by kicking them...
Anyway, im not arguing for either, but i think a good case can be made for Shang Chi beating Lady Shiva. There's WAY too many useful instances for someone who's been around more than 40 years.
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