People often side with Nate Grey because of his ridiculous telepathy, but people are failing to notice that Silver Surfer has never outright been defeated by telepathy.
He's shrugged off tp blasts that have put Professor X in a coma.
He's sent his thoughts across the universe.
He's telepathically merged 2 realities. (although this was accompanied by also coating the entire planet in cosmic energy).
He's fought off beings that can telepathically match Galactus. (He then destroyed their dimension, which was itself pure consciousness).
@citizensentry: sorry but I was a little unclear on how Surfer could harm Nate? I know Shaman Nate doesn't burn out or need a physical body. We've seen Norrin beat down physically by Thor and Thanos and his energy blasts did basically nothing to the Mad Titan. Nate being the psionic beast telepathically and telekinetically he is, could probably harm Norrin. Not to mention his low end reality warping and time traveling ability. Then theirs the statement from Moira about Nate psionically being equal to the Phoenix (Dark), which should have little issue putting Surfer down also. I'm just confused because I've seen some great viners in other threads argue at his peak Nate could contend within Legion (everyone but True and Moira) and Franklin Richards. Even arguing he could take the Mad Titan Thanos and DC characters like Despero and Darkseid (not Dark saga) etc. so he's really hard to gauge imo
I was a little unclear on how Surfer could harm Nate? I know Shaman Nate doesn't burn out or need a physical body. We've seen Norrin beat down physically by Thor and Thanos and his energy blasts did basically nothing to the Mad Titan. Nate being the psionic beast telepathically and telekinetically he is, could probably harm Norrin. Not to mention his low end reality warping and time traveling ability. Then theirs the statement from Moira about Nate psionically being equal to the Phoenix (Dark), which should have little issue putting Surfer down also. I'm just confused because I've seen some great viners in other threads argue at his peak Nate could contend within Legion (everyone but True and Moira) and Franklin Richards. Even arguing he could take the Mad Titan Thanos and DC characters like Despero and Darkseid (not Dark saga) etc. so he's really hard to gauge imo
What are Cable's top feats? Anyone have some scans or at least some issue numbers to point me to?
I did read issue 10 of Cable and Deadpool, so I saw the fight between Surfer and Nate, but wasn't Nate diverting a s**t ton of power toward other stuff during the fight with Surfer? Maybe I'm misremembering.
@blackstaroblivion: just adding that in another thread it was discussed that yes Cable was fighting Surfer but not really wanting to and losing power. Nate will not have that issue and is on another level and weve never seen his full potential. Plus he doesn't need a physical form
I'm inclined to say nate. Nate (to me) is more powerful than cable. Not only is he one of the most powerful telepaths...he's also probably the most powerful tk. At the very least, he would give surfer a much harder fight.
just adding that in another thread it was discussed that yes Cable was fighting Surfer but not really wanting to and losing power. Nate will not have that issue and is on another level and weve never seen his full potential. Plus he doesn't need a physical form
I would go with Nate Grey, first he was said to be on par with the Dark/Phoenix which is way beyond any level the SS can reach. Dark/Phoenix>>>>>Galactus>>>>>>SS. Nate Grey is a matter and energy manipulator due to his level of telekinesis.
He can transmutate objects and beings, change the reality as he sees fit, manipulate energy on a sub-atomic level, he is a powerful telepathy and he is soooo good at what he does. They hv the same power, almost. But Nate has more raw power than the SS and is more powerful than Galactus.
Nate IMHO. He is just more powerful than Surfer on average. They both have crazy versatility. I would still love to read it regardless of a winner if it was done right.
Silver Surfer. As an energy manipulator of the highest level, he could disrupt Nate's psionic form and incapacitate him, or drain the psionic energy from him in order to temporarily depower him, much like Weapon Omega, and Mimic did recently. Nate as the Shaman holds far greater experience than his original self, but the Surfer has perfected his mastery of the power cosmic through the eons. I give him the edge.
This. Even in his Shaman form, I believe I’d back Norrin though Nate is no one to be trifled with.
So last week we had multiple people arguing Shaman Nate over Odin and now we have multiple people picking Norrin over Shaman Nate. Something is off here people..
So last week we had multiple people arguing Shaman Nate over Odin and now we have multiple people picking Norrin over Shaman Nate. Something is off here people..
Last week we had Nate overpower Legion, a character more powerful than Odin by a bit, and wipe out the X-men and their history, but it was revealed he was amped by the life seed. People may be confusing Nates versions. In any event, Shaman Nate doesn’t actually have any powers that Silver Surfer doesn’t have besides becoming pure energy... which I’m not sure of. But we know Norrin can control, redirect, manipulate and even dispel that energy. He’s also faster, has limited feats of time control, and has feats to stand up to Nate telepathically (defense-wise).
So last week we had multiple people arguing Shaman Nate over Odin and now we have multiple people picking Norrin over Shaman Nate. Something is off here people..
Last week we had Nate overpower Legion, a character more powerful than Odin by a bit, and wipe out the X-men and their history, but it was revealed he was amped by the life seed. People may be confusing Nates versions. In any event, Shaman Nate doesn’t actually have any powers that Silver Surfer doesn’t have besides becoming pure energy... which I’m not sure of. But we know Norrin can control, redirect, manipulate and even dispel that energy. He’s also faster, has limited feats of time control, and has feats to stand up to Nate telepathically (defense-wise).
I think people overrate Surfer by using his theoretical power set rather than the power set he actually tends to use in battles.
@spambot: you’re not completely wrong there. Silver Surfers abilities are weird because for awhile I’m the classic days, his power cosmic let him do randomly potent crap. No where near the lengths of like a PC Superman randomly developing telepathy or telekinesis etc.. but low key, he is extremely versatile and has the capability to take Nate Grey, since I’m not sure what Nate could do in defense, or even offensively to him.
Does Silver surfer have Tp Defences if not Nate one shots but if he has it depends how good because any X-Telepathy has feats of breaking through psyhic defences
@psi-bite234: Been thinking about this one lately, I'm going with silver surfer.
Surfer has Tp defenses, he's also a high level Telepath , he broke free of the mind control of The goddess who had 30 cosmic cubes and mind controlled the universe. He tanked psi blast from mind gem moondragon who had one shot Xavier casually, he's gone toe to toe with a young Galactus in a tp Battle, he's broken free of being trapped in the soul gem by the Supreme intelligence (another high level Telepath), gone toe to toe with Mephisto in battle on the astral plane.
I don't think Nate has good enough telepathy to take him out.
@ssj_god: we can just discuss the tp side. The phoenix itself doesn't hold all the psionic energy ever, she's a physical representation of it, galactus was already universal in tp even before he became galactus as demonstrated in silver surfer black where he was incubated.
@ssj_god: nate is really good because he's got exotic tp abilities like being able to pick a mind from a different universe like Rachel was able to project through time.
Overall, I might go with a non jobbing Surfer. Too versatile.
and nate grey isn't too versatile aswell?
these two are the most versatile high herald tier characters I've known. there isn't like any ability there which these can not pull out to some extent. nate is even a low level reality warper and a very good reality hopper
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