Posted by darklord_apoc (1310 posts) 7 months, 23 days ago

Poll: Shadow King vs Sinister (11 votes)

Shadow King 73%
Sinister 27%

Both are at full power and blood lust....

Round 1: Who can win in a random encounter and why?

Round 2: Who can win with prep and why?

#1 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16944 posts) - - Show Bio

R1: SK

R2: Sinister.

#2 Edited by darklord_apoc (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

R1: SK

R2: Sinister.

May I ask why you feel Shadow King wins round 1 and Sinister wins round 2?:)

#3 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16944 posts) - - Show Bio

Shadow King seems to be greater threat in standard telepatic battle. They are both one of the most teleapths on the planet, but Sinister is often preparing some background to boost his own chances, like against Emma in MC and against Xavier in X-M:L.

#4 Edited by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

Shadow King is basically Xavier level. I don't think Sinister is quite there. It would, by no means, be an easy battle, but I think eventually SK is going to take a majority.

Round 2: I give this to Sinister. Shadow King isn't really the kind of character to benefit greatly from prep, whereas Sinister preps even when he doesn't have to. He's already close enough in power to defend himself well from SK, and with prep and his knowledge of mutations and psionics, would almost certainly be able to come up with some sort of device to either contain or harm SK, or shield himself from SK's abilities.

#5 Posted by Wolverine08 (38546 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting fight.

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#6 Posted by Dextersinister (5763 posts) - - Show Bio

Gillens Sinister which is the current one since the Uncanny reboot before the most recent reboot should take both rounds easily enough, he is far less of a physical threat than the Sinister most people think of but had harvested phalanx tech to turn himself into a hive mind and celestial energy to clone himself. He has other resources he could access even in a random encounter but the multiple Sinisters seals it.

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#7 Posted by darklord_apoc (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

Gillens Sinister which is the current one since the Uncanny reboot before the most recent reboot should take both rounds easily enough, he is far less of a physical threat than the Sinister most people think of but had harvested phalanx tech to turn himself into a hive mind and celestial energy to clone himself. He has other resources he could access even in a random encounter but the multiple Sinisters seals it.

Is that the same Sinister that controlled or manipulated Pro X since Pro X was a child? I read some thing about that..

#8 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (9981 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Edited by Roddy010 (5142 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: That's impressive but Shadow King has a few perks too. He has no body so physical attacks won't harm him, being that he's an entity. So Sinister will be no more a physical threat than SK would be to him. This fight will be brought to the astral plane, where SK is multiversal and powerful enough to manipulate the plane itself, something only Galactus and Phoenix lvl characters have been shown to do. He's manipulated billions of minds simultaneously and created his own nexus of psychic energy to amp his own telepathy as well as the the shadows that completely envelop Sinister's soul. I don't think Sinister has the experience to contend with SK on the astral plane, especially if SK's serious.

#10 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (9981 posts) - - Show Bio

@roddy010 said:

@dextersinister: That's impressive but Shadow King has a few perks too. He has no body so physical attacks won't harm him, being that he's an entity. So Sinister will be no more a physical threat than SK would be to him. This fight will be brought to the astral plane, where SK is multiversal and powerful enough to manipulate the plane itself, something only Galactus and Phoenix lvl characters have been shown to do. He's manipulated billions of minds simultaneously and created his own nexus of psychic energy to amp his own telepathy as well as the the shadows that completely envelop Sinister's soul. I don't think Sinister has the experience to contend with SK on the astral plane, especially if SK's serious.

Well said. I forgot about his feat of channeling a billion thoughts into Psylocke during Psi-War.

#11 Posted by darklord_apoc (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

@roddy010 said:

@dextersinister: That's impressive but Shadow King has a few perks too. He has no body so physical attacks won't harm him, being that he's an entity. So Sinister will be no more a physical threat than SK would be to him. This fight will be brought to the astral plane, where SK is multiversal and powerful enough to manipulate the plane itself, something only Galactus and Phoenix lvl characters have been shown to do. He's manipulated billions of minds simultaneously and created his own nexus of psychic energy to amp his own telepathy as well as the the shadows that completely envelop Sinister's soul. I don't think Sinister has the experience to contend with SK on the astral plane, especially if SK's serious.

Oh WOW! Can you show that scan because I would love to see it because I don't know much on SK...

#12 Posted by Roddy010 (5142 posts) - - Show Bio

@roddy010 said:

@dextersinister: That's impressive but Shadow King has a few perks too. He has no body so physical attacks won't harm him, being that he's an entity. So Sinister will be no more a physical threat than SK would be to him. This fight will be brought to the astral plane, where SK is multiversal and powerful enough to manipulate the plane itself, something only Galactus and Phoenix lvl characters have been shown to do. He's manipulated billions of minds simultaneously and created his own nexus of psychic energy to amp his own telepathy as well as the the shadows that completely envelop Sinister's soul. I don't think Sinister has the experience to contend with SK on the astral plane, especially if SK's serious.

Oh WOW! Can you show that scan because I would love to see it because I don't know much on SK...

Yeah I have a few I can share.

Alters the Astral Plane
Psylocke injured the Shadow King with her psi-blade. The damage was transferred to every being under the control of the Shadow King at the speed of thought causing a chain reaction magnifying the assault a trillion times, which destroyed Psylocke's astral being. The wave of psi-energy was so intense and pure that it broke the psi-plane itself, damaging the collective subconscious of every being on Earth, the basis of the psi-plane. Jean Grey, Nate Grey, Cable, Emma Frost Chamber. "Maddie" Pryor, Nate Grey's psionic construct made from Madelyne Pryor's psionic remnants, was completely obliterated. Dr. Strange and Spider-Man were also affected.
In an alternate universe he possessed Rachel and reduced her mind to an infant and harnessed the power of the Phoenix to fight jean.
Earth-295 He completely destroys Xavier's mind and later forms his version of the X-men.

#13 Edited by Dextersinister (5763 posts) - - Show Bio

@roddy010: That's impressive but Shadow King has a few perks too. He has no body so physical attacks won't harm him, being that he's an entity. So Sinister will be no more a physical threat than SK would be to him.

I am well aware of that, he merely needs to kill his astral form.

This fight will be brought to the astral plane, where SK is multiversal and powerful enough to manipulate the plane itself, something only Galactus and Phoenix lvl characters have been shown to do.

That is rubbish any half decent psychic can manipulate the astral plane and all psychic battles effectively take place via the astral plane. Where do you think Emma Frost brings them when she's having dinner with the team in their minds or when she turned Xavier into a pack of playing cards.

As it stands Xavier has struggled with and even lost to Sinister and he has beaten Nate Grey with his greater skill vs Nates raw power. That was one Sinister, I would say 2 at most would be certain victory let alone 100's even 1000's and he has amped his mind since then. Sinister improves himself all the time, he bypassed Magiks mental shields which Xavier cannot do and took control of Storm and the rest of the team instantly when Shadow King struggles to control just her.

Considering the Shadow King has struggled with individual telepaths such as Xavier or Psylocke I fail to see how he stands a chance and even if he did find a way the affected clones die and every version from that point onwards is immune, Emma Frost couldn't do anything to a single Sinister after he had adapted.

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#14 Edited by Roddy010 (5142 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: You do know that the none of those instances took place in the astral plane right? Many people get this misconstrued but that's called a psychic rapport which usually takes place within the minds of who ever is within the union and yes any decent telepath with can alter the perception within the mind.

The actual Astral plane is a seperate dimension housing multiple entities and spirits Emma has never manipulated this dimension to my knowledge. She has access there but has never manipulated the plane itself. Her fight with Rachel, Xavier, Exodus and Nate all took place in the physical realm with her manipulating their minds/astral bodies.

Sinister is still just a mutant with a dark past for SK to exploit. Remember SK is powered by the shadows within the soul. Sinister creating clones of himself would be adding fuel to the fire. SK never struggled against Xavier, he underestimated him and never took their battles seriously. However SK gave Charles hell in the Muir Island Saga and depowered every psychic on the planet in Psi-War including Psylocke. Also in World's Apart he manipulated multiple X-men as well as Black Panther simultaneously and there was nothing Emma could do about it.

#15 Posted by Dextersinister (5763 posts) - - Show Bio

@roddy010: Sinister is still just a mutant with a dark past for SK to exploit. Remember SK is powered by the shadows within the soul. Sinister creating clones of himself would be adding fuel to the fire. SK never struggled against Xavier, he underestimated him and never took their battles seriously. However SK gave Charles hell in the Muir Island Saga and depowered every psychic on the planet in Psi-War including Psylocke. Also in World's Apart he manipulated multiple X-men as well as Black Panther simultaneously and there was nothing Emma could do about it.

The difference between manipulating the astral plane is js just fluff, the astral plane only resists manipulation if there is someone else to oppose you but anyway here is Sinister defeating Jean who specifically mentions her astral self.

Shadow King in Psi which would be his most powerful version is powered by a comatose Legion. The weakness of this version being that they can simply kill a helpless Legion and contend with a much weaker hostless SK

Emma was able to exploit Sinister using part of Cyclops mind to make up his own after which Sinister immunized himself to that flaw and considering he was taking the hate from billions and still lost it seems he really doesn't get much mileage.

The SK regardless of power level has been brought down by at most 2 powerful telepaths I still fail to see how he could beat an army who made himself mentally more powerful than older versions of the same character.

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#16 Edited by Roddy010 (5142 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: Manipulating the astral plane requires a great deal of energy and skill pull off. That "fluff" is called ectoplasm and SK can manipulate this substance at a much higher degree than Sinister. After that scan I posted Xavier commented on how SK enough power to warp the battlefield thousands of times simultaneously nearly driving Xavier insane.

[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/jluncannyxmen11713j][IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/705/uncannyxmen11713.jpg[/IMG][/URLa]

That scan you posted in from Inferno and at that time Jean didn't possess telepathy. That was Psylocke who mentions her astral form and all of this is taking place within Jean's mind.

Shadow King wasn't powered by Legion on Psi Wars. His first host was Ananasi, from the tribe that worshipped Storm as a Goddess. He states to Storm and Betsy that he draws power from the shadows in the heart. When Psylocke tried to kill him, every person within his control felt the struggle and her attack was amplified a trillion times before being backfired on her. This same attack caused every Psi on the planet to lose their ability.

Those two telepaths won by unconventional means and both struggled in their encounters with SK. Sinister's darkness will be Shadow King's fuel and I don't see Sinister lasting against someone who can fight on multiple planes at once.