Shadow Cabinet Neo VS World Breaker Hulk

Shadow Cabinet Neo:

Icon, Mr. Terrific, Steel (all non-Entropy Aegis feats applicable), Fatality, Static, Monet St. Croix, Hawkman(Pre and Post-Flashpoint feats applicable), Black Lightning, Twilight, Blue Marvel, & Bloodwynd

VS

World Breaker Hulk:

Battle takes place on Ryut.

The Shadow Cabinet is extremely serious and seeks to calm WBH, but if he continues his rampage, they have orders from Dharma to put him down.

Team gets 1 weeks prep.

Who wins?

Pardon me if I didn't tag you, but all are welcome:

@ghostravage, @willpayton, @blacharrt1, @killemall, @pooty, @joygirl, @tifalockhart, @czarny_samael666

@frozen, @carter_esque, @iconrocket123, @ancient_0f_days, @matchesmalone21, @realitywarper, @reaverlation,

@xiix, @beatboks1, & @warlordeternal

@heraldofganthet: I'm quite sure Icon, Mr. Terrific, Steel, Hawkman, Bloodwynd and Blue Marvel can't even get near him due to the omnidirectional planet threatening passive gamma burst. I don't know if Twilight is someone intangible or anything but as far as im concerned, everyone here gets disintegrated sans Monica, due to the reasons i stated in the other thread, she's basically intangible for most things to harm her and anyone short of high end energy manipulator let alone with lightspeed reflexes shouldn't be able to deal with her.

In other words, more than half the team is rather overpowered without Hulk even moving mate, there's an abysmal difference between Green Scar and World Breaker Hulk even though they are the same incarnation but with different levels of anger.

@heraldofganthet:
I'm going with team due to prep. Mr. Terrific has an impressive respect thread with feats. Add Blue Marvel and Steel, who are genius, and with prep i think they can come up with someone to at least subdue or incapacitate him. SpinTech and inhibitor collars have been around for years. With their speed and coordinated attacks they could get one on him. This is not their invention but I don't think it's beyond their abilities. Scan below

@ghostravage: Unless he edited the OP, Monica is not here

Team wins..hate this thread the most..actually no..stalemate...it depends on the Hulk and his level of anger. Base level wbh is waaay above wwh base. When he went at Red She Hulk in the Dark Dimension, he was base before he went all out. The team has a lot of powerhouses that can probably slow ole jade jaws down, but they can most likely have to put him down fast. It's either stalemate, or Hulk wins, or the Cabinet wins.

@ghostravage:

I'm quite sure Icon, Mr. Terrific, Steel, Hawkman, Bloodwynd and Blue Marvel can't even get near him due to the omnidirectional planet threatening passive gamma burst. I don't know if Twilight is someone intangible or anything but as far as im concerned, everyone here gets disintegrated sans Monica, due to the reasons i stated in the other thread, she's basically intangible for most things to harm her and anyone short of high end energy manipulator let alone with lightspeed reflexes shouldn't be able to deal with her.

In other words, more than half the team is rather overpowered without Hulk even moving mate, there's an abysmal difference between Green Scar and World Breaker Hulk even though they are the same incarnation but with different levels of anger.

I can't speak for Blue Marvel's ability in that front, as I don't know nearly enough about him as I do his teammates. We'll have to wait for experts like @realitywarper to provide more info on that front. That said, I know that Fatality, Icon, Steel, Black Lightning, and Mr. Terrific all have the ability to generate force fields. Steel especially, since he combines his force fields with his armor's Kinetic Dampeners to lessen the impacts the armor has to endure. And yes, Twilight isn't really...here. If that makes sense to you. As far as Hawkman goes, i'm not sure how resiliant his Post-Flashpoint Battle Armor is to radiological attacks. Perhaps @matchesmalone21 and/or @ancient_0f_days can help us out there. But on a planet like Ryut however, there are plenty of both dead bodies/people who suffered immensely before they died. That won't boost Bloodwynd up to WBH levels of durability/strength IMO, but it would certainly get him to the Class 100+ club with all the goodies that go with it. Well, that and his ability to attack with tele-blitz/optic blasts from around the margins if he chose to go that route...

@pooty:

I'm going with team due to prep. Mr. Terrific has an impressive respect thread with feats. Add Blue Marvel and Steel, who are genius, and with prep i think they can come up with someone to at least subdue or incapacitate him. SpinTech and inhibitor collars have been around for years. With their speed and coordinated attacks they could get one on him. This is not their invention but I don't think it's beyond their abilities. Scan below

I have never seen this scan before. It is plausible that a similar device could be used by the Neo. Hopefully they think that far ahead, for their sakes.

@ghostravage: Unless he edited the OP, Monica is not here

Correct. Monica is on vacation in New Orleans during this fight. She tagged in Fatality to take her place and Dharma said it was fine!;)

@iconrocket123: It's either stalemate, or Hulk wins, or the Cabinet wins.

You covered all the bases

@heraldofganthet: Calling me an expert of Blue Marvel is a bit too much. ^^

He has a very few appareances and feats.

@pooty: It's good to see you Pooty

Hope all is well with you with you, my friend!

I'm not sure who takes this...

@pooty:

I'm going with team due to prep. Mr. Terrific has an impressive respect thread with feats. Add Blue Marvel and Steel, who are genius, and with prep i think they can come up with someone to at least subdue or incapacitate him. SpinTech and inhibitor collars have been around for years. With their speed and coordinated attacks they could get one on him. This is not their invention but I don't think it's beyond their abilities. Scan below

I'm skeptical to what they will be able to do within a week of preparation without any significant knowledge on Hulk when it took years of preparation for Banner's formula to be any useful for someone like Reed Richards to actually make a decent preparation set against Hulk in the ways you're suggesting.

SPIN is overrated and most likely it wouldn't even work on Hulk considering the huge gap in power levels, let alone flat out adaptability between Hulk and the victims of this technology. I actually took the bother a few months ago to create a thread explaining precisely why the tech would have failed anyways and i think it does pertains plenty of reliable proof to prove it. S.P.I.N Tech Inevitable Failure.

As for your scan there, i don't think it will work on Hulk given a few factors that need to be taken into account. First of all, Hulk was freshly transformed in the instance, which most likely means he wasn't strong enough to actually pull feats like his past instances where he had his strength built up or was flat out in a more stressful situation. Secondly, that Hulk is a dumber version of Savage Hulk which then again is exponentially below Green Scar incarnation of Hulk, let alone the Green Scar in uncontrollable levels of anger as World Breaker Hulk. Thirdly, Hulk has already dealt multiple times with devices that would screw his brain activity up back in the day, for example Incredible Hulk #203 and he wasn't even that mad...

I fail to see how they will deal with that kind of tactic without someone who is literally Hulk's strongest, angriest and most powerful incarnation so far. Im willing to debate so i would suggest you to take the chance :).

@realitywarper:

Calling me an expert of Blue Marvel is a bit too much. ^^

He has a very few appareances and feats.

Fair enough. You do seem fairly knowledgeable on him however, and I wanted to make sure I gave you your props!;)

Ah thanks.

I don't know if he can canalyze the gamma energies like he did with the anti-energies of Anti-Man, or counter the gamma burst with an anti-gamma burst.

Moreover I think that WBH is actually strong enough to deal with every superman-like characters who haven't show enough striking power to destroy planets with their bare-hands.

@warlordeternal:

I'm not sure who takes this...

I tried to make a super throw down. What complicates this battle for you, mon ami?

@realitywarper:

Ah thanks.

You're very welcome.

I don't know if he can canalyze the gamma energies like he did with the anti-energies of Anti-Man, or counter the gamma burst with an anti-gamma burst.

Hmm.. How powerful was the counter-wave he created? It might go a long way to establishing his part in all this.

Moreover I think that WBH is actually strong enough to deal with every superman-like characters who haven't show enough striking power to destroy planets with their bare-hands.

If all of the anecdotal evidence is to be believed, you may be right. Thinking about it though, just by being on Ryut, Bloodwynd would be at unbelievable new levels of power due to all the carnage and death that occurred there. Will that boost him to "World Breaker" levels? Probably not, but he'd be at least strong enough to contend here IF he decided to go the h2h route. IMO.

Hopefully this aspect won't be overlooked in this melee...

@heraldofganthet:

@realitywarper:

Impressive. Wow! Well, it's certainly not out of the question that with the prep time the geniuses assembled here could invent something to harness his/their combined power and weaponize it similar to what @pooty was saying. Steel would certainly have access to things like Sunstone and other Kryptonian weapons since Superman trusts John with both his life and his stuff. Hmm..

That said, I'll pass the baton to @ghostravage as he is far more knowledgeable on WBH than I am and is always good for juicy info on all things Hulk. You're up, mon ami!;)

I'll side with team for know.

Bump.

While Hulk in this incarnation is just sick, I'm inclined to believe that the team would eventually win though by all evidence it would be a hard victory and universe might be a few moons short as a result.

@green_skaar, @joygirl, and @darkraiden, what do you all think happens here?

Hulk

@heraldofganthet: did you really give Steel and Terrific prep together? seriously if i wanted to take down AMAZO those would be the 2 prep guys i wanted.

@serrure:

did you really give Steel and Terrific prep together? seriously if i wanted to take down AMAZO those would be the 2 prep guys i wanted.

I agree. But I was told by Hulk fans I truly respect like @ghostravage, @green_skaar, and others that WBH is one bad mofo. If this is true, I thought it best if they had time to prepare themselves considering just how poorly Marvel's brains did against a weaker incarnation of the Hulk in the form of World War Hulk.

That said, do you think I should remove the prep time from the Neo's? Would they be able to contend with (or even defeat) WBH in a completely random encounter?

What say you, mon ami?

@heraldofganthet: actually i dont know enough about WBH to really comment on whether these guys can take him without prep but with prep there wont even be a battle they'll show up and Hulk'll drop

Icon and Blue Marvel should be enough tbh. Steel and Terrific with prep just makes it easy

Team definitely wins. They have LOTS of options and could likely take this with a select half of their numbers.

@joygirl: in a straight fight do any of them have the damage output to seriously hurt him?

@thedailybagel: Icon does, maybe Blue Marvel too (don't know him well).

Hawkman, also, depending on who's writing him.

@joygirl: blue marvel won't be scratching him tbh, he probably won't even survive the gamma burst. what has icon and hawkman done to suggest they can hurt him?

@thedailybagel: Icon is considered equal to Superman, or thereabouts.

Hawkman, if memory serves (not an expert on him) put a hurt on Despero. He may have had the Claw of Horus when he did that though. He also fought (lost, badly, but still fought) Black Adam and his hits seemed to annoy him.

@joygirl: then I can't really see them hurting him significantly, but thanks for the info.

@joygirl:

Team definitely wins. They have LOTS of options and could likely take this with a select half of their numbers.

I've been advised by @serrure and @darkraiden to make this a random encounter. Would that be more fair in your opinion?

@thedailybagel:

blue marvel won't be scratching him tbh, he probably won't even survive the gamma burst. what has icon and hawkman done to suggest they can hurt him?

I'm unclear as to how fast Blue Marvel is (I'll let @realitywarper elaborate on that aspect of his powers, if he'd be so kind as to lend his voice to the thread), so he might be able to outrun it. Possibly. That said, he has several different members of his team who could potentially shield him from such an attack. As the OP I can't vote here, but do take in consideration the battlefield:

Several billion souls were literally exterminated in the most brutal fashion possible. As just one example, Bloodwynd absorbs the pain and suffering of dead bodies (the more miserable their death(s), the more power he can glean from them). And while I don't see Bloodwynd taking WBH by himself, he shouldn't be ignored here, IMO.

I think that we've got ourselves a horserace here, but I will stand corrected if arguments to the contrary serve to bring home the point.

He is fast :

Blue Marvel has flight to the Moon in minutes and avoided lasers while flying too.

@heraldofganthet: blue marvel isn't outrunning an omnidirectional planet threatening explosion that moves at lightspeed. He gets roasted.

@thedailybagel:

blue marvel isn't outrunning an omnidirectional planet threatening explosion that moves at lightspeed. He gets roasted.

@realitywarper:

Blue Marvel has flight to the Moon in minutes and avoided lasers while flying too.

Okay, now I'm confused. RW has Blue Marvel blitzing both the Moon and laser fire, while Bagel is completely unimpressed. Hmm... Well, umm, he does have at least 3 teammates who are able to teleport (Bloodwynd, Twilight, and Steel) so.... maybe there's that in his favor.

I wonder @thedailybagel, do you think Blue Marvel to be fragile (honest question)?

@heraldofganthet: do I think he's fragile? No. But he's fragile enough to be humbled by sentry in three blows, so world breaker hulk should be able to take his head off with one punch.

Besides, getting to the moon in minutes isn't lightspeed, and that's how fast hulks gamma bursts are. And I can't really see how teleporting is going to make a difference, if you want to hit him, your going to be hit by the gamma burst one way or another. It's impossible to physically dodge it.

@thedailybagel:

@heraldofganthet: do I think he's fragile? No. But he's fragile enough to be humbled by sentry in three blows, so world breaker hulk should be able to take his head off with one punch.

Three blows?! @realitywarper, did you know about this? First time I've heard of it..... Damn.

Besides, getting to the moon in minutes isn't lightspeed, and that's how fast hulks gamma bursts are. And I can't really see how teleporting is going to make a difference, if you want to hit him, your going to be hit by the gamma burst one way or another. It's impossible to physically dodge it.

Well, all radiation moves in waves/pulses. At lightspeed yes, but teleports can be timed to coincide with an incoming energy wave's frequency. But if by chance that didn't succeed, I know that Mr. Terrific, Black Lightning, Fatality, Static, & Steel have pretty good shielding they can bring to bear here (Steel especially considering the multiple layers of force fields he incorporates into his various armors). Bloodwynd has a healing factor (which would be pretty turbocharged in this place) plus tele-blitz, and maybe Monica can absorb some/all of the incoming gamma wave...? I'm unclear on that last one, admittedly (lol)!

Still this one is going to be crazy. And loud. Very loud.

@heraldofganthet: he wasn't beaten but he was on the ropes and It was more than enough time for sentry to ask him to stand down several times. Then he sucker punched sentry and sent him into orbit.

Not hulks gamma burst. It's literally a constant grenade, and youd need to be lightspeed+ to dodge the intervals of gamma rays anyway.

I don't know if Monica can absorb it, but his gamma burst is at least equal to 310 tsar bombs going off at the same time, and that's while holding back. When he cuts loose its planet threatening, it should be more than enough to slow everyone down so he can comfortably hit them.

And yea, say good bye to North America and several other continents.

Sentry was stable and holding back but anti-matter have a negative effect on Sentry powers (at least that's what he wants).

Quoting the wiki :

The Negative Zone is an alien universe with several characteristics that distinguish it from our own. First, and most important, it is composed entirely of anti-matter. Anyone or anything that moves from one universe to the other must reverse its polarity on a molecular level or be instantly annihilated. Second, it is a mature universe that has already started to contract (ours is still expanding); eventually, it will implode. Third, time passes at a faster rate relative to ours. Fourth, a still unknown factor (possibly lack of water) makes evolution difficult, because much of the Negative Zone is still uninhabited. The best-known characters from the Zone include Annihilus and Blastaar.

So when Bob uses positive energy to create the Sentry, he can be weakened by negative energy (and he will absorb and use the negative energy).

But Blue Marvel is strong.

I guess that World Breaker Hulk is stronger.

@thedailybagel:

he wasn't beaten but he was on the ropes and It was more than enough time for sentry to ask him to stand down several times. Then he sucker punched sentry and sent him into orbit.

Gotcha. Is it possible that Dr. Brashear was playing a "rope-a-dope" style game on Sentry to lull him into a false sense of security (I only ask because I didn't read the issue)?

Not hulks gamma burst. It's literally a constant grenade, and youd need to be lightspeed+ to dodge the intervals of gamma rays anyway.

Agreed. Several members of the Neo possess this speed so its at least plausible that they employ that option. IMO...

I don't know if Monica can absorb it, but his gamma burst is at least equal to 310 tsar bombs going off at the same time, and that's while holding back. When he cuts loose its planet threatening, it should be more than enough to slow everyone down so he can comfortably hit them.

And yea, say good bye to North America and several other continents.

If they were on Earth, I'd easily agree with you. As it stands right now though, they're fighting on Ryut.

@realitywarper:

So when Bob uses positive energy to create the Sentry, he can be weakened by negative energy (and he will absorb and use the negative energy).

But Blue Marvel is strong.

I guess that World Breaker Hulk is stronger.

I see. One on one, Blue Marvel would have his hands more than full by my estimation. But thankfully he's got backup here. How do you feel about their chances?

@heraldofganthet: I have no idea. ^^

@realitywarper: how well do you think BM would do against WB hulk by his self?

BAD.

IIRC the fight between Red She-Hulk and Hulk was huge and they destroyed the planet.

I guess that Blue Marvel will trade some blows but sooner or later he will fall.

@realitywarper: it was, they hit each other and the planet as well as two of its surrounding moons was destroyed. Both of them were fine and they just did it again.

And thanks for letting me know your opinion.

My pleasure.

@realitywarper:

I have no idea. ^^

LOL! Because it's a toss up or because the Neo's get blown out?

How about you:

@life_without_progress, @hiddenlight, @eisenfauste, @citizensentry, @kingant27, @captain_batman_ftw, @lvenger, and @icecold14?

Me no knowledge.