Severus Snape vs Bellatrix Lestrange

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Kal-L

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First new, knowledge will allow me to achieve anything. Messi prepare yourself a new champion is coming !

Definitely Snape. He was the right hand man of the 2 strongest wizards of the time.

Bellatrix lost to Molly whereas Snape was making his own spells and learned how to fly from Voldemort himself. That's an honor and ability Bellatrix was not given, despite being Voldy's #1 groupie.

You have it on your own headcanon right ? Because I never see anywhere Snape being stated to be any right hand however I have Lucius Malfoy being called Second-in-command on Pottermore and Bellatrix being called his best lieutenant.

Flawed argument about Molly, JKR already explain the reason why.

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Cregan_Stark

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@cpt_nice: when we cut to the heart of your entire post it boils down to "Snape doesn't have dueling feats" which I said in my post. There is no doubt in my mind that had Snape actually dueled to the best of his abilities, he would have been called the 4th most powerful wizard in the series behind Dumbledore, Grindelwald and Voldemort.

I've also explained many times why Bella was able to block Dumbledores spell. It wasn't aimed just at her, it was a blanket spell aimed at a large group. We see just how insignificant she is to Dumbledore just moments later.

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cpt_nice

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#103  Edited By cpt_nice

@cregan_stark said:

@cpt_nice: when we cut to the heart of your entire post it boils down to "Snape doesn't have dueling feats" which I said in my post.

Snape does not have good dueling feats. Every single duel he has been in has him stomping over fodder or getting his ass handed to him. That does not mean he is bad, but that is just a simple fact.

There is no doubt in my mind that had Snape actually dueled to the best of his abilities, he would have been called the 4th most powerful wizard in the series behind Dumbledore, Grindelwald and Voldemort.

In your mind, sure. But there is no empirical evidence for this. Nor has anyone ever convinced me this is true by using scaling or other means.

I've also explained many times why Bella was able to block Dumbledores spell. It wasn't aimed just at her, it was a blanket spell aimed at a large group.

That is irrelevant. Dumbledore has used a larger area of effect spell to blind sight Umbridge and 2 aurors (and Kingsley, but he knew it was coming). Umbridge is fodder, but aurors are at least solidly above average when it comes to dueling skill. They had their eyes on Dumbledore and he still 'blitzed' them. Yet Bellatrix blocked his spell, a feat that no one has ever accomplished, aside from Voldie.

We see just how insignificant she is to Dumbledore just moments later.

As is.... pretty much everyone in the series, again aside from Voldie. Is Bellatrix < Snape because she could not stand up to him? Snape got one-shotted by Dumbledore as well.

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Cregan_Stark

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@cpt_nice: When exactly did he "get his ass handed to him"? He was in harmed when he faces the proessors and he was holding back the whole time. If you count that as "getting his ass handed to him" then we will never agree. Also if you call the Voldemort situation as such then we won't agree either, he didn't try to fight back and he was attacked by the snake. Also outside of Dumbledore and Grindlewald, no one is the series makes it out of that shack alive.

So you are comparing a blanket spell place over 3 or 4 people in a tiny area to a blanket spell placed over a large group of people in a huge area?? Kingsley didn't have a chance I defend himself, no as if he could if he wanted to. Also since when is Dawlish a "solidly above average dueler"??????

Irrelevant, in a duel, Bella gets one shotted by Dumbledore too.

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pateuvasiliu

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@kal-l: Snape was entrusted by Voldemort to spy on Dumbledore himself. A job no one else could do, in his mind. His faith in Snape was supreme.

And mind telling me why Molly beating Bellatrix isn't a clear showing of Bellatrix's dueling abilities?

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Kal-L

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#107  Edited By Kal-L

@pateuvasiliu said:

@kal-l: Snape was entrusted by Voldemort to spy on Dumbledore himself. A job no one else could do, in his mind. His faith in Snape was supreme.

And mind telling me why Molly beating Bellatrix isn't a clear showing of Bellatrix's dueling abilities?

That's not what happened, Snape was asked to spy Dumbledore during the first Wizarding War when he was just some no name half blood minion skilled in occlumency while his best followers were too much involved to be trusted. At the time Voldemort's Right Hand were Lucius (who for his part is officially called Second-in-command) and Bellatrix his greatest duellist, two purebloods who were each entrusted with his greatest secrets: Horcruxes.

JKR already stated that when asked how the female warrior was defeated by a housewife that she wanted Molly to beat Bellatrix because her "maternal love" trounced Bella's "obsessive love". Biggest PIS moments were always about love in that serie.

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pateuvasiliu

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@kal-l: That by no means diminishes the fact that Molly lost. I thought JKR stated something like ''Bella was exhausted'' which would give her an excuse to lose. Seems she was just outmatched.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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Snaps easily

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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I'd probably side with Snape

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MaZeRaIII

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Snape.

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Kal-L

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#112  Edited By Kal-L

@pateuvasiliu said:

@kal-l: That by no means diminishes the fact that Molly lost. I thought JKR stated something like ''Bella was exhausted'' which would give her an excuse to lose. Seems she was just outmatched.

You're free to think Molly is stronger than Bella but I fail to see what does that have to do with Snape.

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pateuvasiliu

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@kal-l: It just shows Bella wasn't all that she was cranked up to be.

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deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

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Bellatrix for feats. Snape for hype.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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Bellatrix was a powerful wizard but by no means was she a Prodigy Wizard, Snape from a young age was already creating powerful spells and rewriting the potions book

He was one of the only two wizards who could fly without a broom

He stalemated 3 powerful professors while holding back,

He disarmed and countered Harry Potter numerous Occassions without trying

He has shown to use higher level spells and also has shown to use a variety of spells and doesn't just rely on the unforgivables unlike Bellatrix, he has also been shown to use unforgivable curses aswell, I see no reason why Bellatrix would win one round

snape was a prodigy on the same level as Voldenort and Dumbledoor, if he lived and continued studying and growing more powerful he may of even surpassed the two great wizards

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Kal-L

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@kal-l: It just shows Bella wasn't all that she was cranked up to be.

That's why she quickly defeated Kingsley. Show me proofs Snape is able to reciprocate it.

Bellatrix was a powerful wizard but by no means was she a Prodigy Wizard, Snape from a young age was already creating powerful spells and rewriting the potions book

He was one of the only two wizards who could fly without a broom

He stalemated 3 powerful professors while holding back,

He disarmed and countered Harry Potter numerous Occassions without trying

He has shown to use higher level spells and also has shown to use a variety of spells and doesn't just rely on the unforgivables unlike Bellatrix, he has also been shown to use unforgivable curses aswell, I see no reason why Bellatrix would win one round

snape was a prodigy on the same level as Voldenort and Dumbledoor, if he lived and continued studying and growing more powerful he may of even surpassed the two great wizards

The bold never happened. The rest is... whatever.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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@kal-l: lol yes t did happen during battle of hogweeds and what do you ran the rest what ever? That's better feats than anything bellatrix has done, tell me one thing she has done to put her above snape

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Kal-L

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#118  Edited By Kal-L

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

@kal-l: lol yes t did happen during battle of hogweeds and what do you ran the rest what ever? That's better feats than anything bellatrix has done, tell me one thing she has done to put her above snape

It didn't happen, read the book carefully before making wrong statement here.

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pateuvasiliu

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@kal-l: Snape could freaking fly. Voldemort taught him. But he did not teach his ''first lieutenant''. That says loads.

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Kal-L

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@kal-l: Snape could freaking fly. Voldemort taught him. But he did not teach his ''first lieutenant''. That says loads.

Voldemort rewarded him for killing Dumbledore. Basically Snape became his favourite after that yet he still didn't share his biggest secret with him.

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Kal-L

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@pateuvasiliu: His horcruxes, mate. He entrusted his horcruxes to his two former lieutenants while he never said anything about that to Snape. He screamed at Bellatrix his "best lieutenant" death (she is the only one who got that "honor") showing how valuable she was to him while at the same time he just watched Snape dying completely unconcerned.

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pateuvasiliu

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#123  Edited By pateuvasiliu

@kal-l: Voldemort is incapable of love. Bellatrix's death simply meant he was losing the battle. Even if he beat Harry there were still dozens of wizards around that would've beaten him.

He killed Snape for the Wand. He had no reason to regret it. Bellatrix died for nothing.

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Kal-L

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@kal-l: Voldemort is incapable of love. Bellatrix's death simply meant he was losing the battle. Even if he beat Harry there were still dozens of wizards around that would've beaten him.

He killed Snape for the Wand. He had no reason to regret it. Bellatrix died for nothing.

Who did talk about love here ? I only talked about how valuable they were and Bella despite how her fails was portrayed as his "best lieutenant". And despite everything Voldemort still never said anything about the horcruxes to Snape.

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pateuvasiliu

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@kal-l: Are you sure Bella knew about the Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort just told her to guard the relic with her life.

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Kal-L

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@kal-l: Are you sure Bella knew about the Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort just told her to guard the relic with her life.

Actually it doesn't matter, Voldemort still entrusted two of his horcruxes to Lucius and Bella stating that it was important to him, a honor that only those twh ever had. We're playing on the hype and portrayal fields which isn't right here especially as both have their own. Bellatrix duelling feats trumps everyone and she is considered to be the most dangerous death eaters along with Sirius (although he happened to not be one). She was portrayed as the last one still standing and fighting against three opponents a feat only shared by Dumbledore and Voldemort.

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Snape from a young age was already creating powerful spells and rewriting the potions book

Has nothing to do with duelling skill

He was one of the only two wizards who could fly without a broom

Has nothing to do with duelling skill

He stalemated 3 powerful professors while holding back,

He stalemated Mc Gonagall for half a minute and immediately ran when Bane and Sprout entered the room. Bane fired off one spell that made a set of armor go after Snape. That's it. He did not stalemate 3 professors.

He disarmed and countered Harry Potter numerous Occassions without trying

Harry was both in a disastrous emotional state because of Dumbledore's death (Snape himself commented on the fact that he was just throwing spells at him) and a student at the time. Defeating him is a mediocre feat at best.

He has shown to use higher level spells and also has shown to use a variety of spells and doesn't just rely on the unforgivables unlike Bellatrix

Bellatrix used plenty of other curses

, he has also been shown to use unforgivable curses aswell, I see no reason why Bellatrix would win one round

Because she has way better actual feats, like defeating actually good duellists like Black and Kingsley

snape was a prodigy on the same level as Voldenort and Dumbledoor

This is conjecture

, if he lived and continued studying and growing more powerful he may of even surpassed the two great wizards

And this is conjecture as well

So all in all you have an extremely weak case

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pateuvasiliu

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@kal-l: No shit, how was he supposed to give a horcrux to snape when snape was right under dumbledore's nose?

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cpt_nice

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@kal-l: No shit, how was he supposed to give a horcrux to snape when snape was right under dumbledore's nose?

Some of his horcruxes were hidden in Hogwarts, one of them given to a 11-year-old girl...

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Kal-L

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@kal-l: No shit, how was he supposed to give a horcrux to snape when snape was right under dumbledore's nose?

Voldemort gave his horcruxes to Lucius and Bellatrix before Snape was teacher, hell even before he was a spy. It happened a long time ago when they were his most trusted followers, which lasted until the end of OoTP where they failed to take the prophecy.

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Snape

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MiracleComeBack

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bump

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cpt_nice

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Bellatrix still murks him

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marvelfan1992

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in a duel i'd go with bellatrix, but snape was no doubt more gifted than her

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Lawz

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Snape curb stomps. Dramatically more intelligent. Snape is arguably the most brilliant Wizard in the series behind Dumbledore and Voldemort, not counting Grindelwald.

Bellatrix was just a fanatical whack job who got owned by a house wife.

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WardedMan7050

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#136  Edited By WardedMan7050

Lawz There's no way Snape curbstomps. His dueling feats simply don't support that. His best feat is dueling McGonagall to a draw. And embarrassing Harry in HBP although that was all Ligilimency so I don't think it's that great. He got one shoted both by Voldemort and Dumbledore.

J.K Rowling would have given him better dueling feats if he's as great as you seem to think.

While I agree Snape was great at Potions, Occlumency, and a very gifted knowledgeable wizard his dueling skills are lacking. He is shown "missing" his target numerous times.

What you have to keep in mind is that being knowledgeable in magic although usually does not always translate into great dueling skill. Just like Harry is not as knowledgeable in magic as Hermione yet after the 3rd book Rowling said he'd beat her in a duel. So it is with snape.

Also intelligence has nothing to do with dueling. Again see Hermione vs. Harry.

Bellatrix on the other hand has the best dueling feats of anyone outside of Dumbledore, Voldemort, and Grindelwald.

She defeated Tonks, Sirius, and Kingsley quickly back to back then deflected a spell from Dumbledore on top.

Then defeated 4 snatchers singlehandedly.

Later she killed Tonks and fought Hermione, Ginny, and Luna 3vs. 1 to a stalemate. And was the last Death Eater standing iirc.

At best you could argue that Snape vs. Bellatrix would be a draw/ toss up if you think McGonagall is equal to Bellatrix. I highly doubt that though.

Bellatrix should win most of the time.

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Chair-Sama

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@kal-l said:
@pateuvasiliu said:

@kal-l: Are you sure Bella knew about the Horcruxes? Maybe Voldemort just told her to guard the relic with her life.

Actually it doesn't matter, Voldemort still entrusted two of his horcruxes to Lucius and Bella stating that it was important to him, a honor that only those twh ever had. We're playing on the hype and portrayal fields which isn't right here especially as both have their own. Bellatrix duelling feats trumps everyone and she is considered to be the most dangerous death eaters along with Sirius (although he happened to not be one). She was portrayed as the last one still standing and fighting against three opponents a feat only shared by Dumbledore and Voldemort.

have you also considered WHY he didnt entrust them to snape? maybe because SNAPE WAS LIVING INSIDE OF HOGWARTS.

let me ask you, why would he give a horcrux to snape with snape being so close to both 1. Dumbledore AND 2. to harry potter?

voldemort went to great lengths to hide his horcrux's from dumbledore, and he knew dumbledore had the Wand, why, in his right mind, would he willing let snape walk into the school filled with powerful professors, with a part of his soul?

the fact remains as this, 1. he DID entrust a horcrux to snape. Snapes whole reasoning to be in hogwarts was as a double agent, and to close to Harry potter, Who happens to be a horcrux.

bellatrix was trusted because he knew nobody would be able to get to her horcrux, and lucius was trusted as with his political position and his families wealth he also could not be touched. with the death eaters and voldy controlling the Ministry, the only thing that could go against either was Dumbledore himself, which he couldn't exactly go around busting down doors for one of the most prestigious families in the potter verse.

but lets face it, just like with snape, both bellatrix and lucious would be nothing faced directly by Dumbledore wielding the wand. the only difference is snape was literally right down the hall in the dungeon, while bellatrix/lucious were not.

The reason he killed snape was because it was his last chance, he was against a wall and was starting to lose the battle, he knew he needed control over the wand to be able to finish it, other wise the battle was lost. he was down to two horcrux's, harry and Nagima the snake. both of which are the two most vulnerable without having mastery of the wand.

this was the whole reason Draco was supposed to kill dumbledore to begin with, Draco kills dumble--> voldemort takes the wand---> voldy then kills draco--> voldy takes control of wand.

he even states that because snape did it for draco he was the rightful master of the wand and thus he had to die. he thought he was at the end, he had no further need for snape as

1. no more dumbledore

2. no more hogwarts(if he won the battle)

3. he has the Wand

all this means he has no further use for a double agent in the school, and if it meant getting the wand i wouldnt doubt he would have killed any other death for it too, even bella.

on top of all of this there are a few things we need to consider.

bella has some better feats, but she was still topped by fodder quite a few times. \

while Molly is no slouch, bella was still countered by some teenage students. something snape was not.

snape was effortlessly able to disarm harry, and probably would have killed him if not for his little secret. something that almost nobody else in the series (other then bella once) can attest to.

Snape is a prodigy, and has a list of Dark Magic spells that he himself created. now I'm not going to downplay the Unforgivables, because bella clearly pointed out to harry, they are not easy spells to control, but he have seen that they can be countered and blocked, something that snape theoretically should be able to do.

Snape is also a master of Occlumency, a potions master, a defense against the Dark Arts' teacher(meaning he also has access to all the text and research on the dark arts and the many ways to counter and defend against them)

His biggest advantage over bella imo though is his level-headedness. Bella is powerful but she is also very fanatical. she is partly insane and acts very sporadically. And while against a normal wizard or kid this is very effective, as its hard to determine her actions and predict what she will do in time tone able to react, against somebody like snape, who is a experienced wizard somebody trained in not only the Dark arts but somebody trained to defend against them, who is also known to keep a level head, it could be more of a flaw then a benefit.

Snape also knows more about the current bella then she knows of him, she's been sitting in azkaban for most of the series, while he's been at hogwarts, practicing possibly mastering knew spells and potions while in the dungeon.and the fact that she locks the knowledge of him is obvious by their encounter in his house. bella, especially for a former death eater, is not a surprise, she comes in fast and strong and is not afraid to blast some H.K.'s, while snape has spells that nobody outside of him/draco/and harry knows about, and that could easily catch her off guard.

now when it comes down to pure dueling, by Feats i agree bella has a much better showing, but thats what her whole job in the death eater spectrum seems to be, thats why she is his "lieutenant' she is the crazed wizard who is not afraid to straight up launch Killing spells willy nilly, and against an army of mostly fodder students and a few parents(most who haven't seen action since the last wizarding war) and some professors, she is the perfect one to be leading the charge, where as I've always seen snape as more of the Secret Spy for voldemort, not only is he skilled, but he's deceptive, can play it cool and keep calm(something bella could never do) enough to be a double agent. but even voldemort knows, when it comes to double agents, you need somebody that can still defend themselves when dealing with Hogwarts professors + dumbledore.

its like trying to compare G.I. Joe to Jason bourne. Both are more then capable when it comes to killing, but both have different skill sets.

if this were in a open battle field with multiple people fighting on both sides, i easily give it to bella, if this is a 1v1 duel with them alone, snape takes it easy IMO. i just feel 1v1 he has more skill to be able to manipulate the battle, he can fly, more unique spells and his use of Occlumency, and leligimency(i know i spelt that wrong but the opposite of occlumency, the ability to invade ones mind) and just being able to keep calm under pressure.

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cpt_nice

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#138  Edited By cpt_nice

@lawz said:

Snape curb stomps. Dramatically more intelligent. Snape is arguably the most brilliant Wizard in the series behind Dumbledore and Voldemort, not counting Grindelwald.

Bellatrix was just a fanatical whack job who got owned by a house wife.

When has intelligence ever held any significant sway in a straight up battle? Would Albert Einstein make mince meat out of Ali? No.

Snape might have more magical aptitude, but he has few and average dueling feats. Bellatrix, by actual feats, is easily the best duelist outside of the big three. Read my respect thread if you need proof.

@chair-samaif this were in a open battle field with multiple people fighting on both sides, i easily give it to bella, if this is a 1v1 duel with them alone, snape takes it easy IMO.

Same for you, read my thread. Bellatrix has way better dueling feats to support her easily beating Snape. I'd give her a win 9/10, for sure.

bella has some better feats, but she was still topped by fodder quite a few times.

Like when? She got disarmed by Ron who already had his wand out when she had her back turned towards him and she lost to Molly, which Rowling herself admitted she did because she wanted to demonstrate the power of love. She did not lose any other fight she was in.

while Molly is no slouch, bella was still countered by some teenage students. something snape was not.

She stalemated and arguably was winning against three of them at once, Snape never even fought more than one opponent and his only duel where he was won was Harry by himself, who is definitely a lot weaker than Hermione + Ginny + Luna.

Snape is a prodigy, and has a list of Dark Magic spells that he himself created. now I'm not going to downplay the Unforgivables, because bella clearly pointed out to harry, they are not easy spells to control, but he have seen that they can be countered and blocked, something that snape theoretically should be able to do.

Actually the unforgiveable curses can't be blocked, they can only be parried. And Bellatrix used plenty of other spells. She took out both Tonks and Kingsley with one.

Snape is also a master of Occlumency, a potions master, a defense against the Dark Arts' teacher(meaning he also has access to all the text and research on the dark arts and the many ways to counter and defend against them)

None of which gives him better dueling feats.

and against an army of mostly fodder students and a few parents(most who haven't seen action since the last wizarding war) and some professors, she is the perfect one to be leading the charge

And, you know, experienced aurors.

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Lawz

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#139  Edited By Lawz

@cpt_nice:

Your dismissal of intelligence as a factor by comparing Ali and Einstein might be the most ridiculous thing I've read on a site laden with ridiculousness, so kudos on that.

Bellatrix was taken down and helpless by a bloodlusted Harry after the death of Sirius.

A bloodlusted Harry was still getting schooled by Snape after the death of Dumbledore.

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cpt_nice

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@lawz:

Actually she was not, at all. Harry used the cruciatus spell on her but she got up in record time and managed to almost hit him with a counter spell. Not long after that Voldemort came to the scene and battled Dumbledore.

Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed “Crucio!” Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe and shriek with pain as Neville had — she was already on her feet again, breathless, no longer laughing. Harry dodged behind the golden fountain again — her counterspell hit the head of the handsome wizard, which was blown off and landed twenty feet away, gouging long scratches into the wooden floor.

Maybe you need to read the books again.

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Lawz

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@cpt_nice said:

@lawz:

Actually she was not, at all. Harry used the cruciatus spell on her but she got up in record time and managed to almost hit him with a counter spell. Not long after that Voldemort came to the scene and battled Dumbledore.

Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed “Crucio!” Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe and shriek with pain as Neville had — she was already on her feet again, breathless, no longer laughing. Harry dodged behind the golden fountain again — her counterspell hit the head of the handsome wizard, which was blown off and landed twenty feet away, gouging long scratches into the wooden floor.

Maybe you need to read the books again.

Harry tagged Bellatrix. Snape was casually giving Harry lessons as he deflected spells.

Edge goes to Snape in the VS Bloodlusted Harry feat.

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Bellatrix.

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#143  Edited By cpt_nice

@lawz: You are acting like a moron. The only reason Harry tagged Bellatrix is because he was hiding behind the fountain in the atrium

He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed “Crucio!”

Snape faced Harry out in the open. Not even comparable.

That was literally the only fight Snape has ever won. Ever. Against book 6 Harry. Let's go over what Bellatrix has done, since you are too lazy to actually open a link and read.

Book 5

At the Department of Mystery, she faced Tonks (a trained auror),

Tonks, still halfway up the tiered seats, was firing spells down at Bellatrix —

1 page later.

A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius; across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

Sirius Black (veteran Order of the Phoenix member and often hailed prodigy)

Only one couple were still battling, apparently unaware of the new arrival. Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix’s jet of red light: He was laughing at her. “Come on, you can do better than that!” he yelled, his voice echoing around the cavernous room. The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest. The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock.

and Kingsley (a veteran auror with considerable dueling expertise) in a row and managed to beat all of them.

Kingsley had run forward to continue Sirius’s duel with Bellatrix.

There was a loud bang and a yell from behind the dais. Harry saw Kingsley, yelling in pain, hit the ground.

And just to add a cherry on top, as she flees the scene, she blocks a spell from Dumbledore himself, being the only person outside of Voldemort we ever see do this.

Bellatrix Lestrange turned and ran as Dumbledore whipped around. He aimed a spell at her but she deflected it. She was halfway up the steps now.

Now that is a gauntlet not many wizards could complete, yet Bellatrix did so in style.

Book 7

Bellatrix has no problem fighting multiple opponents at once. In fact, when she fights 4 snatchers in the Deathly Hallows, she casually stomps them.

Lucius froze, his index finger hovering over his own Mark. Bellatrix strode out of Harry’s limited line of vision. “What is that?” he heard her say. “Sword,” grunted an out-of-sight Snatcher. “Give it to me.” “It’s not yours, missus, it’s mine, I reckon I found it.” There was a bang and a flash of red light; Harry knew that the Snatcher had been Stunned. There was a roar of anger from his fellows: Scabior drew his wand. “What d’you think you’re playing at, woman?” “Stupefy!” she screamed, ”Stupefy!” They were no match for her, even thought there were four of them against one of her: She was a witch, as Harry knew, with prodigious skill and no conscience. They fell where they stood, all except Greyback, who had been forced into a kneeling position, his arms outstretched. Out of the corners of his eyes Harry saw Bellatrix bearing down upon the werewolf, the sword of Gryffindor gripped tightly in her hand, her face waxen.

During her final battle at Hogwarts, she battled 3 people at once just like her master Voldemort, and was holding her own. One of them was Hermione, a seventh year student with a score of victories against adult death eaters.

Bellatrix was still fighting too, fifty yards away from Voldemort, and like her master she dueled three at once: Hermione, Ginny, and Luna, all battling their hardest, but Bellatrix was equal to them, and Harry’s attention was diverted as a Killing Curse shot so close to Ginny that she missed death by an inch.

“Stupefy!” yelled Harry. He had edged right around to where the goblin stood beaming up at the now headless wizard and taken aim at her back as she peered around the fountain for him. She reacted so fast he barely had time to duck. “Protego!” The jet of red light, his own Stunning Spell, bounced back at him. Harry scrambled back behind the fountain, and one of the goblin’s ears went flying across the room.

Despite aiming at her back, Harry can't catch Bellatrix off guard and barely has enough time to take cover of his own spell bouncing back.

“And I think,” said Bellatrix’s voice, “we can dispose of the Mudblood. Greyback, take her if you want her.” “NOOOOOOOOOOOO!” Ron had burst into the drawing room; Bellatrix looked around, shocked; she turned her wand to face Ron instead— “Expelliarmus!” he roared, pointing Wormtail’s wand at Bellatrix, and hers flew into the air and was caught by Harry, who had sprinted after Ron.

Manages to react to Ron bursting into the room, spinning around and pointing her own wand, all in the time it takes Ron to cast a spell.

- - -

Those are all Bellatrix feats. Snape's feats are winning against Harry and stalemating Mcgonagall. And getting blitzed by both Dumbledore AND voldemort, while Bellatrix actually blocked a spell from Dumbledore himself. Snape is trash compared to Bellatrix. Hell, he is trash compared to Kingsley, someone Bellatrix made look like a joke.

I swear, Snape fanboys are literally the worst type of Harry Potter fans out there.

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@chair-sama:

have you also considered WHY he didnt entrust them to snape? maybe because SNAPE WAS LIVING INSIDE OF HOGWARTS.

He entrusted the horcruxe to Lucius and Bellatrix long before Snape was a teacher.

let me ask you, why would he give a horcrux to snape with snape being so close to both 1. Dumbledore AND 2. to harry potter?

voldemort went to great lengths to hide his horcrux's from dumbledore, and he knew dumbledore had the Wand, why, in his right mind, would he willing let snape walk into the school filled with powerful professors, with a part of his soul?

He could have entrusted a horcrux to Snape after Dumbledore's death.

the fact remains as this, 1. he DID entrust a horcrux to snape. Snapes whole reasoning to be in hogwarts was as a double agent, and to close to Harry potter, Who happens to be a horcrux.

He didn't entrust aything to Snape, Voldemort didn't even know Harry was one.

bellatrix was trusted because he knew nobody would be able to get to her horcrux, and lucius was trusted as with his political position and his families wealth he also could not be touched. with the death eaters and voldy controlling the Ministry, the only thing that could go against either was Dumbledore himself, which he couldn't exactly go around busting down doors for one of the most prestigious families in the potter verse.

but lets face it, just like with snape, both bellatrix and lucious would be nothing faced directly by Dumbledore wielding the wand. the only difference is snape was literally right down the hall in the dungeon, while bellatrix/lucious were not.

He chose them because he trusted them more than anyone else and at the time of the first wizard war they were his right hands. It comes Pottermore on Malefoy family.

That being said the horcrux discussion was to show that Snape was a favourite of Dumbledore after Voldemort and Bellatrix failed at the DoM and he killed Dumbledore. Before that the lieutenant were Lucius Malfoy and Bellatrix Lestrange.

The reason he killed snape was because it was his last chance, he was against a wall and was starting to lose the battle, he knew he needed control over the wand to be able to finish it, other wise the battle was lost. he was down to two horcrux's, harry and Nagima the snake. both of which are the two most vulnerable without having mastery of the wand.

this was the whole reason Draco was supposed to kill dumbledore to begin with, Draco kills dumble--> voldemort takes the wand---> voldy then kills draco--> voldy takes control of wand.

he even states that because snape did it for draco he was the rightful master of the wand and thus he had to die. he thought he was at the end, he had no further need for snape as

1. no more dumbledore

2. no more hogwarts(if he won the battle)

3. he has the Wand

all this means he has no further use for a double agent in the school, and if it meant getting the wand i wouldnt doubt he would have killed any other death for it too, even bella.

on top of all of this there are a few things we need to consider.

I read the book, what is your point ?

bella has some better feats, but she was still topped by fodder quite a few times. \

Which "fodder" did top Bellatrix aside of Molly who was explained to have been induced with the biggest plot armor at the time which is "love".

while Molly is no slouch, bella was still countered by some teenage students. something snape was not.

Snape never fought several students at once, however he was once knocked out by three third students in PoA.

snape was effortlessly able to disarm harry, and probably would have killed him if not for his little secret. something that almost nobody else in the series (other then bella once) can attest to.

You should look at the context of the fight which was really convenient to Snape.

Snape is a prodigy, and has a list of Dark Magic spells that he himself created. now I'm not going to downplay the Unforgivables, because bella clearly pointed out to harry, they are not easy spells to control, but he have seen that they can be countered and blocked, something that snape theoretically should be able to do.

List of curses won't make him win a duel, it was already shown at numerous times that there are many others factors.

Snape is also a master of Occlumency, a potions master, a defense against the Dark Arts' teacher(meaning he also has access to all the text and research on the dark arts and the many ways to counter and defend against them)

Only the underlined is relevant.

His biggest advantage over bella imo though is his level-headedness. Bella is powerful but she is also very fanatical. she is partly insane and acts very sporadically. And while against a normal wizard or kid this is very effective, as its hard to determine her actions and predict what she will do in time tone able to react, against somebody like snape, who is a experienced wizard somebody trained in not only the Dark arts but somebody trained to defend against them, who is also known to keep a level head, it could be more of a flaw then a benefit.

Kingsley a highly experienced auror was supposed to have the great advantage over her and still got trounced really hard. Being calm isn't that much of a big factors against her, she already showed that you need more than that to defeat her.

Snape also knows more about the current bella then she knows of him, she's been sitting in azkaban for most of the series, while he's been at hogwarts, practicing possibly mastering knew spells and potions while in the dungeon.and the fact that she locks the knowledge of him is obvious by their encounter in his house. bella, especially for a former death eater, is not a surprise, she comes in fast and strong and is not afraid to blast some H.K.'s, while snape has spells that nobody outside of him/draco/and harry knows about, and that could easily catch her off guard.

Are you talking about sectumsempra ? It seems to be common knowledge on the field, Lupin knew it was Snape's signature and death eaters already saw him using it

now when it comes down to pure dueling, by Feats i agree bella has a much better showing, but thats what her whole job in the death eater spectrum seems to be, thats why she is his "lieutenant' she is the crazed wizard who is not afraid to straight up launch Killing spells willy nilly, and against an army of mostly fodder students and a few parents(most who haven't seen action since the last wizarding war) and some professors, she is the perfect one to be leading the charge, where as I've always seen snape as more of the Secret Spy for voldemort, not only is he skilled, but he's deceptive, can play it cool and keep calm(something bella could never do) enough to be a double agent. but even voldemort knows, when it comes to double agents, you need somebody that can still defend themselves when dealing with Hogwarts professors + dumbledore.

its like trying to compare G.I. Joe to Jason bourne. Both are more then capable when it comes to killing, but both have different skill sets.

if this were in a open battle field with multiple people fighting on both sides, i easily give it to bella, if this is a 1v1 duel with them alone, snape takes it easy IMO. i just feel 1v1 he has more skill to be able to manipulate the battle, he can fly, more unique spells and his use of Occlumency, and leligimency(i know i spelt that wrong but the opposite of occlumency, the ability to invade ones mind) and just being able to keep calm under pressure.

Just to be clear occlumency won't matter here as I doubt Bella is going to use legilimency on him nor she would managed actually, the same goes for Snape who wouldn't be able to use it on Bella.

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Kal-L

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@lawz said:
@cpt_nice said:

@lawz:

Actually she was not, at all. Harry used the cruciatus spell on her but she got up in record time and managed to almost hit him with a counter spell. Not long after that Voldemort came to the scene and battled Dumbledore.

Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed “Crucio!” Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe and shriek with pain as Neville had — she was already on her feet again, breathless, no longer laughing. Harry dodged behind the golden fountain again — her counterspell hit the head of the handsome wizard, which was blown off and landed twenty feet away, gouging long scratches into the wooden floor.

Maybe you need to read the books again.

Harry tagged Bellatrix. Snape was casually giving Harry lessons as he deflected spells.

Edge goes to Snape in the VS Bloodlusted Harry feat.

Bloodlust Harry is a perfect opponent for Snape the man who was trying to teach him occlumency, however Snape won't have the same luck against a more experienced wizard and definitely not on an occlumens such as Bellatrix.

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Bella 5.5/10

Snape on a good day

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marvelfan1992

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this whole argument about voldy entrusting horcruxes seems irrelevant. Who voldy entrusted horcruxes =/= better duelist. I still hold by bella winning in a duel based on feats. Snap again is more gifted but she is a better duelist

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#148 anthp2000  Moderator

this whole argument about voldy entrusting horcruxes seems irrelevant. Who voldy entrusted horcruxes =/= better duelist. I still hold by bella winning in a duel based on feats. Snap again is more gifted but she is a better duelist

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snape takes it.

aside from voldemort he was the only one to cancel spells directed at him without saying anything. + the knowledge on magic seems to be a lot higher (guy created his own magic and changed previous rules on how to set up magic potions)

all bella had going for her was her lunatic and cruel behaviour

none of this will save here

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#150  Edited By marvelfan1992

@ravensupreme: knowledge of magic =/= a better duelist. Hermione knew soooo much more than harry but he is the better duelist. and im pretty sure later on in the series almost all the wizards and witches duel with a mix of verbal and non-verbal magic