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#1 Posted by Spartan101 (2489 posts) - - Show Bio

This battle sentry is at full power,the million suns,full void powers everything written about him NO PIS,he fights are full potential!!. All players are in the pictures below. Fight in nyc,start 1 mile apart.

,,,,vs,,,,,,,,,

#2 Posted by SoA (5241 posts) - - Show Bio

with no PIS Thor dies though! but yes the teams take down Sentry

#3 Posted by Israphael (354 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

I'm going to say the Justice League wins this. Supes fights Hulk while Flash eliminates the puny humans Iron Man, Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Lantern take on Thor. Martian Manhunter gets into Sentry's head and pushes Sentry into allowing himself harm/death. Martian then decks him, killing him. By that point, if Thor is still standing, everyone remaining can gang up on him.

And where's Batman during all this, you may ask?

Sitting this one out, because Supes tells him before the fight that they want this to be fair. Killing the opposing team with 'I'm Batman' just isn't sporting.

This.

adding Batman is spite and you should be banned.

#4 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3370 posts) - - Show Bio

Team should win

Online
#5 Posted by Oscars94 (2621 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk,Superman,Aquaman,Wonderwoman,J'onn,Thor,and John Stewart all punch him at once! Goodbye Bob!

#6 Posted by mk111 (3139 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Thor, Hulk, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Martain Manhunter should be enough to handle Sentry, even if he is at full-Void power.

#7 Posted by RoyalDivinity (3157 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA said:

with no PIS Thor dies though! but yes the teams take down Sentry

The chances of Thor dying before the entirety of the Avengers is naught, which only insinuates a certain depiction you possess towards him. Interesting to be cognizant of said information for the future ;)

As for this thread, the team wins.

#8 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5656 posts) - - Show Bio
@Israphael

@JonSmith said:

I'm going to say the Justice League wins this. Supes fights Hulk while Flash eliminates the puny humans Iron Man, Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Lantern take on Thor. Martian Manhunter gets into Sentry's head and pushes Sentry into allowing himself harm/death. Martian then decks him, killing him. By that point, if Thor is still standing, everyone remaining can gang up on him.

And where's Batman during all this, you may ask?

Sitting this one out, because Supes tells him before the fight that they want this to be fair. Killing the opposing team with 'I'm Batman' just isn't sporting.

This.

adding Batman is spite and you should be banned.

You do realize the Avengers and JLA are ON THE SAME TEAM? Lol.
#9 Edited by Lord_Johnathan (3300 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry dies horribly at the hands of the forces arrayed against him.

And nothing of value was lost.

The heroes then celebrate because Ding Dong the Sentry's dead, never again to plague comic books with his terrible Mary Sueishness.

#10 Posted by Israphael (354 posts) - - Show Bio

@WaveMotionCannon said:

@Israphael

@JonSmith said:

I'm going to say the Justice League wins this. Supes fights Hulk while Flash eliminates the puny humans Iron Man, Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Lantern take on Thor. Martian Manhunter gets into Sentry's head and pushes Sentry into allowing himself harm/death. Martian then decks him, killing him. By that point, if Thor is still standing, everyone remaining can gang up on him.

And where's Batman during all this, you may ask?

Sitting this one out, because Supes tells him before the fight that they want this to be fair. Killing the opposing team with 'I'm Batman' just isn't sporting.

This.

adding Batman is spite and you should be banned.

You do realize the Avengers and JLA are ON THE SAME TEAM? Lol.

This should be Batman vs Avengers/JLA. Batman still stomps with 3 minutes prep.

#11 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5656 posts) - - Show Bio
@Israphael

@WaveMotionCannon said:

@Israphael

@JonSmith said:

I'm going to say the Justice League wins this. Supes fights Hulk while Flash eliminates the puny humans Iron Man, Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Lantern take on Thor. Martian Manhunter gets into Sentry's head and pushes Sentry into allowing himself harm/death. Martian then decks him, killing him. By that point, if Thor is still standing, everyone remaining can gang up on him.

And where's Batman during all this, you may ask?

Sitting this one out, because Supes tells him before the fight that they want this to be fair. Killing the opposing team with 'I'm Batman' just isn't sporting.

This.

adding Batman is spite and you should be banned.

You do realize the Avengers and JLA are ON THE SAME TEAM? Lol.

This should be Batman vs Avengers/JLA. Batman still stomps with 3 minutes prep.

Umm .. Yeah .. Ok.
#12 Posted by Lord_Johnathan (3300 posts) - - Show Bio

@WaveMotionCannon said:

@Israphael

@WaveMotionCannon said:

@Israphael

@JonSmith said:

I'm going to say the Justice League wins this. Supes fights Hulk while Flash eliminates the puny humans Iron Man, Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Lantern take on Thor. Martian Manhunter gets into Sentry's head and pushes Sentry into allowing himself harm/death. Martian then decks him, killing him. By that point, if Thor is still standing, everyone remaining can gang up on him.

And where's Batman during all this, you may ask?

Sitting this one out, because Supes tells him before the fight that they want this to be fair. Killing the opposing team with 'I'm Batman' just isn't sporting.

This.

adding Batman is spite and you should be banned.

You do realize the Avengers and JLA are ON THE SAME TEAM? Lol.

This should be Batman vs Avengers/JLA. Batman still stomps with 3 minutes prep.

Umm .. Yeah .. Ok.

Israphael likes to kid around. Just a heads up.

#13 Posted by JonSmith (4010 posts) - - Show Bio

@WaveMotionCannon said:

You do realize the Avengers and JLA are ON THE SAME TEAM? Lol.

When I made that post, I had misread the parameters of the OP. When I realized my error, I promptly deleted said post. My argument was thus retracted.

#14 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

I just finished rereading Siege. Why would anyone from the team be able to dish out more damage than Sentry can handle? What gave the Marvel heroes the victory during the Siege were the Norn stones, since they vastly empowered them all. An empowered Iron Man was doing damage to the Void. Imagine the damage Thor did to him, if you take into consideration that Iron Man actually doesn't stand a chance against people like Sentry and Thor. In my opinion there are many non-factors in this fight: Hulk, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Captain America, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Iron Man, and even the god damn Batman. Thor? Let's face it, it really didn't look like he was standing a chance against the Void at all. He was much weaker than Void and he was much slower than Void. Are the others much more durable and stronger than Thor? I doubt it for the most part.

I'm actually going with Sentry on this one. Matter manipulation? Empathy? Regeneration? Super speed + super strenght? Force Fields? Invisibility? I don't see them being able to handle that much versatility and simply that much raw power.

#15 Posted by YoungJustice (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry easily.

#16 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

If Sentry didn't resist Void's possession, then he should wins. I don't think Void itself can be harmed physically anyway...

#17 Posted by BigCimmerian (8835 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins, effortless curbstomp

#18 Posted by Dredknott416 (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA: bassically

#19 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungJustice said:

Sentry easily.
#20 Posted by Enzeru--defunct (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I simply can't understand how anyone could say that the team would win this fight ...
Why would you do such a thing ?_?

#21 Posted by green_skaar (4718 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry atomizes both teams with but a thought. Total mismatch.

#22 Posted by beautifulrevery (1521 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry(w. Void) has better MM than Post Retcon Cosmic Cube Molecule Man included with super strength, super speed, telepathy, etc etc. He team busts them both with ease.

#23 Posted by ImNemotheGemini (845 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sorry.. A void Sentry that doesn't want to lose.. Doesn't lose ! He's going to toy around with them and one by one.. Rip them apart ! Then he and Hulk go smoothies cause he wont stay ripped apart lol !

#24 Posted by Evil Incarnate (4217 posts) - - Show Bio

What stops Sentry from being knocked out...?

#25 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

There is going to be a lot of Ares repeat's here....

#26 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I simply can't understand how anyone could say that the team would win this fight ...

Why would you do such a thing ?_?

With Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and Wally West capable of soloing Sentry along with Hulk and Thor who've fought evenly with the Sentry, I think you've bumped this thread for the wrong reasons if you're trying to prove Sentry can win this one. He loses horribly to the combined forces of the Avengers and the Justice League.

#27 Posted by TheBournePoster (1793 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

@enzeru said:

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I simply can't understand how anyone could say that the team would win this fight ...

Why would you do such a thing ?_?

With Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and Wally West capable of soloing Sentry along with Hulk and Thor who've fought evenly with the Sentry, I think you've bumped this thread for the wrong reasons if you're trying to prove Sentry can win this one. He loses horribly to the combined forces of the Avengers and the Justice League.

QFT

#28 Posted by Enzeru--defunct (2893 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

With Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and Wally West capable of soloing Sentry along with Hulk and Thor who've fought evenly with the Sentry, I think you've bumped this thread for the wrong reasons if you're trying to prove Sentry can win this one. He loses horribly to the combined forces of the Avengers and the Justice League.

The only two factors in this fight are Flash and Martian Manhunter and even that for other reasons, than you might think.
Flash, because he can use the tactic to do one step in front of the other at the speed of light in the opposite direction and Martian Manhunter, because he can turn invisible and intangible and flee back to Mars.

Basically everyone on this battlefield is a non-factor, because they will get hit by shadowy tentacles and then spend a lot of time crying in vain:

Batman will see the death of his parents.
Aquaman will see the death of his son by the hands of Black Manta.
Superman will see the destruction of his planet and he will see Lois Lane lying dead in front of him, with her blood on his hands.
Thor will see his murdered father and Loki with Sif in his hands being the new king of Asgard.
Captain America will see his precious America being overrun by Red Skull's Nazi regime. No more freedom and American Way.

And so on. Everyone has inner demons and Void lets you experience the pain of your past, your present and your future.
No one on the team can really do something against Void's attacks, which render them helpless immediately.

#29 Posted by ImBoredLetsDebate (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@enzeru said:

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I simply can't understand how anyone could say that the team would win this fight ...

Why would you do such a thing ?_?

With Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and Wally West capable of soloing Sentry along with Hulk and Thor who've fought evenly with the Sentry, I think you've bumped this thread for the wrong reasons if you're trying to prove Sentry can win this one. He loses horribly to the combined forces of the Avengers and the Justice League.

He was not void in any of those fights, was he?
Wally is the only one that is capable of soloing Void, and that is because of speed steal.

#30 Edited by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

@lvenger said:

With Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and Wally West capable of soloing Sentry along with Hulk and Thor who've fought evenly with the Sentry, I think you've bumped this thread for the wrong reasons if you're trying to prove Sentry can win this one. He loses horribly to the combined forces of the Avengers and the Justice League.

The only two factors in this fight are Flash and Martian Manhunter and even that for other reasons, than you might think.

Flash, because he can use the tactic to do one step in front of the other at the speed of light in the opposite direction and Martian Manhunter, because he can turn invisible and intangible and flee back to Mars.

Basically everyone on this battlefield is a non-factor, because they will get hit by shadowy tentacles and then spend a lot of time crying in vain:

Batman

will see the death of his parents.

Aquaman

will see the death of his son by the hands of Black Manta.

Superman

will see the destruction of his planet and he will see Lois Lane lying dead in front of him, with her blood on his hands.

Thor

will see his murdered father and Loki with Sif in his hands being the new king of Asgard.

Captain America

will see his precious America being overrun by Red Skull's Nazi regime. No more freedom and American Way.

And so on. Everyone has inner demons and Void lets you experience the pain of your past, your present and your future.

No one on the team can really do something against Void's attacks, which render them helpless immediately.

Ah you're the guy who writes those Sentry FAQs. Always with something to prove. Lol at your pitiful misunderstandings of Wally and Manhunter. Let me educate you on how they solo Sentry easily.

First up, Wally. I'll provide 3 simple arguments why Wally wins.

  1. The INSANE speed advantage Wally has over Sentry. For example, here Wally evacuates the entire population of North Korea in less than 0.0000001 microseconds.

Now ignore the hair breadth speed of light quote. Actual calculations have been done on this feat and Wally's speed for this feat clocks in at around about 13 trillion times the speed of light on average. He can accelerate to FTL speeds in an instant and travel to the end of time itself. He'll attack Void before he can even blink.

2. The Infinite Mass Punch - Quite frankly, Wally can hit much harder than Void can even dream of. Here's the classic feat in action:

Zoom, a character who has powers similar to Flash has fought Wonder Woman and she's commented that Zoom hits far harder than Superman, who can definitely give the Void something to chew on with his moon busting striking power

And for the cherry on top, he was the only character to ever shatter the armour of the Anti Monitor when the combined forces of the Pre Crisis heroes, including Pre Crisis Superman who is ridiculously powerful only scored glancing blows on the Anti Monitor. But Wally ripped straight through the Anti Monitor's armour. He didn't beat him because he couldn't get at the anti matter which powers the monitor but that is the Void's chances of winning down the drain

3. Finally, we have the speed steal. This technique of Wally's allows him to lend speed to others or take it away from them. Here he turns Inertia, another speedster into a lifeless statue

Void has no counter for that to my knowledge. As for MM, I'll leave this thread for you so you can see exactly what he's capable of. Please do try to learn more about all the characters involved before placing your bets on the Sentry. It helps me save time on writing this comprehensive post showing you why Sentry/Void loses: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/citizenbane/blog/martian-manhunter-respect-thread/85677/

#31 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@enzeru said:

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I simply can't understand how anyone could say that the team would win this fight ...

Why would you do such a thing ?_?

With Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and Wally West capable of soloing Sentry along with Hulk and Thor who've fought evenly with the Sentry, I think you've bumped this thread for the wrong reasons if you're trying to prove Sentry can win this one. He loses horribly to the combined forces of the Avengers and the Justice League.

He was not void in any of those fights, was he?

Wally is the only one that is capable of soloing Void, and that is because of speed steal.

Manhunter definitely can too because of his TP feats. I'm of the mind Superman and Wonder Woman can too but I can't prove their victory as convincingly as I can Wally and Manhunter's. Also Wally's IMP and sheer speed advantage are what give him even more of an edge over Void.

#32 Posted by Jgames (1691 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry can't die, once Flash killed the void, he come back and rip him from molecue from molecue

#33 Posted by TheBournePoster (1793 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't Martian Manhunter battled 400 White Martians in a telepathic battle simultaneously?

#34 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

Sentry can't die, once Flash killed the void, he come back and rip him from molecue from molecue

Well if that's true, he could just BFR him in the speed force or the end of the universe.

#35 Posted by heymanjack (713 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry wins as he can't be destroyed.

#36 Edited by thanosii (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: @lvenger: you do know speed steal is useless against a being of voids power? Because it didnt work on Anti monitor. Sentry defeated Owen the most powerful cosmic cube who had multiversal feats so he is right up there.

Also he overloaded Absorbing man whose power is to absorb infinite amounts so flash can steal as much energy as he wants its not fazing Void, the rest of JLA are cannon fodder and he does to them what he did to Ares

Most of your scans are out of context as void can't be destroyed using physical means and even if he is he immediately regens back so blowing him up is useless even more so punching him. Also sentry can teleport so hats out of the ball park

Maybe you need to read more on characters before reducing abstract level beings to flashes level, therefore saving me the time to correct you( see what I did there?)

#37 Edited by BigCimmerian (8835 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't Martian Manhunter battled 400 White Martians in a telepathic battle simultaneously?

He slaughtered them all while he was in his Fernus form.

#38 Posted by TheBournePoster (1793 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: No one needs to respond to a post where you compare Sentry to the Anti-Monitor.

#39 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

@enzeru: @lvenger: you do know speed steal is useless against a being of voids power? Because it didnt work on Anti monitor. Sentry defeated Owen the most powerful cosmic cube who had multiversal feats so he is right up there.

Owen was weakened in that fight and Sentry got him to fix what he'd done first weakening him more before killing him. There's an iffiness about that feat that Sentry can beat someone who stalemated the Beyonder before he got nerfed as an Inhuman

@thanosii said:

Also he overloaded Absorbing man whose power is to absorb infinite amounts so flash can't steal as much energy as he wants its not fazing Void the rest of JLA are cannon fodder and he does o them what he did to Ares

Yes he can because Wally has turned speedsters into statues and stolen speed from the entire freaking universe. You really think Void is beyond that based on this feat? Pitiful reasoning. And the fact you use Ares undermines your position immensely given how weak Ares is

@thanosii said:

Most of your scans are out of context as void can't be destroyed using physical means and even he is he immediately regens back so blowing him up is useless even more so punching him.

Wrong. You have no proof they're out of context. Just because you say they are doesn't prove it. You haven't a shred of proof that they are so all you can do is say they are. Exactly what creationists do about scientific evidence for evolution. Ironic really.

@thanosii said:

Maybe you need to read more on characters before reducing abstract level beings o flashes level, therefore saving me the time to correct you( see what I did there?)

Maybe you need to go back to the drawing board and stop overestimating the Void to be on that level since that's just plainly poor reasoning. It'll save me the time of debunking your arguments with ease.

#40 Posted by Enzeru--defunct (2893 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

Ah you're the guy who writes those Sentry FAQs. Always with something to prove. Lol at your pitiful misunderstandings of Wally and Manhunter. Let me educate you on how they solo Sentry easily.

I don't underestimate the characters. I know what they're capable off, but when facing Sentry / Void, they're not simply facing yet another character with limits, which can be exploited.

First up, Wally. I'll provide 3 simple arguments why Wally wins.

  1. The INSANE speed advantage Wally has over Sentry. For example, here Wally evacuates the entire population of North Korea in less than 0.0000001 microseconds.

God, I hate that feat so much, because of its stupidity, but yeah, DC Comics, right?
However some of Sentry's feats are questionable as well.

1. Because he differs on a molecular level from other beings, he has limitless strenght and speed:

Now ignore the hair breadth speed of light quote. Actual calculations have been done on this feat and Wally's speed for this feat clocks in at around about 13 trillion times the speed of light on average. He can accelerate to FTL speeds in an instant and travel to the end of time itself. He'll attack Void before he can even blink.

You're talking about Sentry / Void like they're slow. Sentry's S.H.I.E.L.D. files (so that's not even a bio, but information about the character in the Universe itself) state that he has limitless strenght and speed and on top of that we now also have other feats to back that up to a degree:

What happens after Sentry grabs Thor is that Wolverine falls to the ground, rolls around a little bit and gets eaten by a giant worm.
During that short timespan Sentry travels many lightyears. He bends space and time and even overpowers Thor with the velocity, who was already traveling with speeds beyond light before, but he couldn't handle Sentry's speed.
On top of that it can be argued that Sentry was holding back the entire time, since he didn't want to kill Thor and was holding back.

"BUT ENZERU, SENTRY GAINED THE APOCALYPSE UPGRADE AND IS THEREFORE MORE POWERFUL THAN BEFORE!"
That is indeed correct, but it was also stated that he has limitless strenght and speed. It has been stated over and over again and we've seen him traveling from Earth to the Sun in a matter of seconds and from the Earth to Saturn during one scream, which is a much larger distance than from the Earth to the Sun.

And there he travels MANY lightyears (and I wouldn't consider many to be 10-12 ... I guess it's more, but it's just a guess, so whatever). One lightyear has over 9,5 billion kilometers and he travels that distance in a matter of moments, while probably still holding back, because of Thor's inability to handle the velocity.
And you're saying me that he wouldn't stand a chance against the Flash in the speed department?

But then again, 13 trillion times the speed of light ... it's stupid, but it's there and it's an over the top feat. Nice.

2. The Infinite Mass Punch - Quite frankly, Wally can hit much harder than Void can even dream of. Here's the classic feat in action:
Zoom, a character who has powers similar to Flash has fought Wonder Woman and she's commented that Zoom hits far harder than Superman, who can definitely give the Void something to chew on with his moon busting striking power

Saying that Superman could do anything to the Void is just silly. Silly, silly, silly.
Thor, who is most likely the better striker than Thor, thanks to his own strenght and additionally to the the increased impact due to Mjolnir didn't do anything to the Void, even though not holding back and hitting him with everything he got.
Hitting harder than Superman is nothing special. Once again, the limitless strenght argument for the Sentry. He punched Thor so hard, that the entire world (19 billion residents) felt it and he was most likely still holding back in order not to kill him.

Busting a moon with a strike is nothing that World War Hulk couldn't replicate and a depowered Sentry took on World War Hulk and was willingly tanking his punches with the face and smiling about it, asking for more. Superman wouldn't give the Void anything to chew.

Also Sentry and Void are far, far, far, far beyond the level of simple planetary destruction. Especially the Sentry got portrayed as someone with more power even in weakened states than other planet-busters.



And for the cherry on top, he was the only character to ever shatter the armour of the Anti Monitor when the combined forces of the Pre Crisis heroes, including Pre Crisis Superman who is ridiculously powerful only scored glancing blows on the Anti Monitor. But Wally ripped straight through the Anti Monitor's armour. He didn't beat him because he couldn't get at the anti matter which powers the monitor but that is the Void's chances of winning down the drain

But neither Void, nor Sentry are Anti-Monitor.
They both have their own advantages. The entire argument that speeks for the Flash is his speed and that's what also helped him in the fight against Anti-Monitor.
If I was an ass I could say that to pull off something like that would make Flash disappear, while Void would simply return back.

But I don't care about that tactic, because it's much more simple:
You're talking about physical damage, while we have never seen the Void being challenged in that department, besides when he was fighting against the Sentry, who has limitless strenght and speed, when somewhat at his peak.
Void has already shown intangibility. Flash would have to vibrate him back and at the same time to attack him, that's should be enough time for the Void to strike and all it takes is one attack from the Void and you're done.

Right now you could say that Flash could vibrate his molecules out of Void's control, but you can't really back that claim up against someone like the Void, who had the control over the master of the molecules himself and at the same time I can't make the argument, that Flash couldn't do it, because 13 trillion times the speed of light yaaay DC Comics.

3. Finally, we have the speed steal. This technique of Wally's allows him to lend speed to others or take it away from them. Here he turns Inertia, another speedster into a lifeless statue

The same question still remains... can you speed-steal someone, who has access to limitless speed? It doesn't sound to me like someone who is supposed to have limitless power cares all too much about kinetic energy.

The way I see their fight is a scenario, where it's all about who gets the first shot, IF Flash would be able to speed-steal the Void, which I personally doubt, but I have less proof to back my claim up, so it's simply more about the first shot. And due to the Void's versatility and overall physical attributes, which you underestimate massivly I give the Void the victory, because there are simply too many questions, which need answers: What if Void sees Flash coming? Can Flash get past force fields, which are based on molecule manipulation? Can Void stop Flash at the spot via molecule manipulation? Can Flash phase through Void's already intangible tentacles? What if Flash touches the Void and gets mind-raped through that? Can Flash reach Void, who flys around and has tentacles all over the place, even on the ground, since he is a powerful shapeshifter as well?

But these are questions over questions, because speed-steal is that stupid.

Void has no counter for that to my knowledge. As for MM, I'll leave this thread for you so you can see exactly what he's capable of. Please do try to learn more about all the characters involved before placing your bets on the Sentry. It helps me save time on writing this comprehensive post showing you why Sentry/Void loses: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/citizenbane/blog/martian-manhunter-respect-thread/85677/

Forget about Martian Manhunter. He is as useless in this fight as Superman. Telepathy won't help you against the Void, since the character was never portrayed that way, even though Marvel has more than enough powerful telepaths, who were all affected by Sentry's telepathy, but the opposite didn't really happen.
Sentry has erased the minds of people like Thor and Doctor Doom, who have resistances to telepathy... From people like Hulk, who are immune to it and even from high level telepaths like Professor Xavier.
Other than that there is nothing that would even speak for Martian Manhunter.

From the very first beginning Flash was the only character worth even being mentioned. Everyone else on the battlefield is canon-fodder and most of the people know it by now.

#41 Posted by TheBournePoster (1793 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter would mind-rape Void. He is more powerful than any telepath in Marvel could hope to be.

#42 Edited by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

God, I hate that feat so much, because of its stupidity, but yeah, DC Comics, right?
However some of Sentry's feats are questionable as well.
1. Because he differs on a molecular level from other beings, he has limitless strenght and speed:

Limitless? Please do give me a break, Feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>statements and Sentry doesn't have the feats to back that up. He's extremely strong and fast, that much is true but he has no proof of having unlimited strength and speed. It's the same for Hulk in that department too. He's supposed to have unlimited strength but there's always a bar we can measure them by. And Sentry's speed bar<<<<<Wally's speed bar. You can hate that feat all you want but I have more to prove Wally>>>>>>>>>>Sentry in speed.

@enzeru said:

You're talking about Sentry / Void like they're slow. Sentry's S.H.I.E.L.D. files (so that's not even a bio, but information about the character in the Universe itself) state that he has limitless strenght and speed and on top of that we now also have other feats to back that up to a degree:

What happens after Sentry grabs Thor is that Wolverine falls to the ground, rolls around a little bit and gets eaten by a giant worm.
During that short timespan Sentry travels many lightyears. He bends space and time and even overpowers Thor with the velocity, who was already traveling with speeds beyond light before, but he couldn't handle Sentry's speed.
On top of that it can be argued that Sentry was holding back the entire time, since he didn't want to kill Thor and was holding back.
"BUT ENZERU, SENTRY GAINED THE APOCALYPSE UPGRADE AND IS THEREFORE MORE POWERFUL THAN BEFORE!"
That is indeed correct, but it was also stated that he has limitless strenght and speed. It has been stated over and over again and we've seen him traveling from Earth to the Sun in a matter of seconds and from the Earth to Saturn during one scream, which is a much larger distance than from the Earth to the Sun.
And there he travels MANY lightyears (and I wouldn't consider many to be 10-12 ... I guess it's more, but it's just a guess, so whatever). One lightyear has over 9,5 billion kilometers and he travels that distance in a matter of moments, while probably still holding back, because of Thor's inability to handle the velocity.
And you're saying me that he wouldn't stand a chance against the Flash in the speed department?
But then again, 13 trillion times the speed of light ... it's stupid, but it's there and it's an over the top feat. Nice.

Oh boy, let me get the laughs out of my system. (Ahem) Now that I've done that, let me tell you've made rookie error number one on the battle forum. TRAVEL SPEED IS NOT THE SAME AS COMBAT SPEED. That's in nice big capital letters so you see how mistaken you are. What you have just posted is a travel speed feat. That's all well and good but in that time, Sentry TRAVELLED with Thor to that far away planet. He didn't land a gajillion hits on him or even fight with him in that time. He flew him to another planet. That is a clear travel speed, not combat speed. Wally has thrown thousands of punches in less than a second during a fight with Zoom. And in that first IMP feat I posted, you'll also see he said he could have hit Zum a thousand times before Zum blinked. Again, please, I implore you, read the damn scans before replying and please remember the golden rule that travel speed is not the same as combat speed. Sentry wasn't fighting at that speed, only travelling at it.

@enzeru said:

Saying that Superman could do anything to the Void is just silly. Silly, silly, silly.
Thor, who is most likely the better striker than Thor, thanks to his own strenght and additionally to the the increased impact due to Mjolnir didn't do anything to the Void, even though not holding back and hitting him with everything he got.
Hitting harder than Superman is nothing special. Once again, the limitless strenght argument for the Sentry. He punched Thor so hard, that the entire world (19 billion residents) felt it and he was most likely still holding back in order not to kill him.

Please, I am to Superman as what you are to Sentry. I know what he's capable of. Superman's punches have shockwaves to them too and have caused earthquakes from his mere striking power. Don't overestimate Sentry and underestimate Superman to fit your flawed argument. And yes, I admit Thor has better striking feats than Superman with Mjolnir. And please stop with the unlimited strength argument. Saying it enough times will only convince you, not people who want feats to back it up.

@enzeru said:

Busting a moon with a strike is nothing that World War Hulk couldn't replicate and a depowered Sentry took on World War Hulk and was willingly tanking his punches with the face and smiling about it, asking for more. Superman wouldn't give the Void anything to chew.

Also Sentry and Void are far, far, far, far beyond the level of simple planetary destruction. Especially the Sentry got portrayed as someone with more power even in weakened states than other planet-busters.

Ah so this is the part where you show me Sentry and Void's planet busting feats? What's that? There aren't any quantifiable ones? Oh what a shame you can't back up what you're saying with proper feats. Such a shame.

@enzeru said:

But neither Void, nor Sentry are Anti-Monitor.
They both have their own advantages. The entire argument that speeks for the Flash is his speed and that's what also helped him in the fight against Anti-Monitor.
If I was an ass I could say that to pull off something like that would make Flash disappear, while Void would simply return back.
But I don't care about that tactic, because it's much more simple:
You're talking about physical damage, while we have never seen the Void being challenged in that department, besides when he was fighting against the Sentry, who has limitless strenght and speed, when somewhat at his peak.
Void has already shown intangibility. Flash would have to vibrate him back and at the same time to attack him, that's should be enough time for the Void to strike and all it takes is one attack from the Void and you're done.
Right now you could say that Flash could vibrate his molecules out of Void's control, but you can't really back that claim up against someone like the Void, who had the control over the master of the molecules himself and at the same time I can't make the argument, that Flash couldn't do it, because 13 trillion times the speed of light yaaay DC Comics.

You're still relying on the limitless fallacy? How quaint. Shame I debunked it earlier on. So that leaves us with Wally actually being the one to possess damn near unlimited speed and outclassing the Sentry by a mile along with being an expert at vibrating his molecules and being able to have entire fights in less than a second. Yeah I think it's clear who'll do more damage to you don't you? Unless you're going to be biased to Sentry like you are in your FAQs?

@enzeru said:


The same question still remains... can you speed-steal someone, who has access to limitless speed? It doesn't sound to me like someone who is supposed to have limitless power cares all too much about kinetic energy.
The way I see their fight is a scenario, where it's all about who gets the first shot, IF Flash would be able to speed-steal the Void, which I personally doubt, but I have less proof to back my claim up, so it's simply more about the first shot. And due to the Void's versatility and overall physical attributes, which you underestimate massivly I give the Void the victory, because there are simply too many questions, which need answers: What if Void sees Flash coming? Can Flash get past force fields, which are based on molecule manipulation? Can Void stop Flash at the spot via molecule manipulation? Can Flash phase through Void's already intangible tentacles? What if Flash touches the Void and gets mind-raped through that? Can Flash reach Void, who flys around and has tentacles all over the place, even on the ground, since he is a powerful shapeshifter as well?

But these are questions over questions, because speed-steal is that stupid.

Wally will have handed Sentry his ass before the Void can even blink. He's done it to far faster people than the Sentry and WILL get the first shot in, I can guarantee that. You claim to know these characters yet these arguments reek of ignorance of them. Void has no defense against someone who can hit him a thousand times in less a second with more force in each punch than being punched by Superman. Close to infinity in fact. The speed steal is down to Wally's control over all motion given his connection to the speed force meaning he can rob the Void of all his Kinetic energy before Void can move an eyelid.

@enzeru said:

Forget about Martian Manhunter. He is as useless in this fight as Superman. Telepathy won't help you against the Void, since the character was never portrayed that way, even though Marvel has more than enough powerful telepaths, who were all affected by Sentry's telepathy, but the opposite didn't really happen.
Sentry has erased the minds of people like Thor and Doctor Doom, who have resistances to telepathy... From people like Hulk, who are immune to it and even from high level telepaths like Professor Xavier.
Other than that there is nothing that would even speak for Martian Manhunter.
From the very first beginning Flash was the only character worth even being mentioned. Everyone else on the battlefield is canon-fodder and most of the people know it by now.

Forget about...Ugh I've done enough replying to you for one day. You haven't even looked at the thread based on that comment because MM is that much higher than any other telepath Sentry has ever faced. I can call in some more experts on Wally and Manhunter to prove my points far more succintly than I can.

#43 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced @citizenbane Sorry to bother you two but both of you are Manhunter/Wally experts. I was wondering what you thought of my opponent's attempts to prove that the Sentry can solo the Avengers and the Justice League with these two in it.

#44 Posted by Dredeuced (5833 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I wouldn't say I'm an expert on Manhunter. I mean I've read a lot of JL comics but there's so many I'd be skeptical if I could say I've even read a third of Manhunter's post crisis showings.

I actually don't believe Wally can do anything to full void Sentry. His speed steal should be effectively countered by Void's ability to control molecules completely and, without PIS, it is impossible to hurt him physically. If you take the Siege fight where he gets harmed by the Helicarrier and Thor then Wally should quite easily be able to punch him into submission, but I'm unsure as to what level Void was hindered by the use of the runes amping the avengers and Bob literally doing his best to get him to stop and trying to let Thor kill him.

Manhunter has the best chance. Void has been detained by powerful psychics before (Emma Frost, Professor X, hell Cyclops even shut off a small fraction of the void through sheer mental discipline when void invaded his mind) and Manhunter is more powerful than any of them. Manhunter has the best matchup, here. I would like to address this, though:

@thanosii said:

@enzeru: @lvenger: you do know speed steal is useless against a being of voids power? Because it didnt work on Anti monitor. Sentry defeated Owen the most powerful cosmic cube who had multiversal feats so he is right up there.

Flash did not have speed steal when he fought Anti Monitor. Chain Lightning happened before the Dark Flash saga, which is when Wally learned how to speed steal. Sentry defeating Owen was more PIS than anything (Void is not a multiversal cube level reality warper) and I believe Owen was in one of his...episodes at that time. That said, I won't contest that Void clearly has some level of high tier molecular control as he is able to reform himself out of nothing and battle Owen, even if Owen was jobbing out of his mind.

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#45 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: Interesting. For you to say that is quite something for Void's power level. What about BFR like he did to the Black Flash? Surely that's still on the table?

#46 Edited by Saren (25067 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Eh, really no point stepping in. Typical Sentry thread, especially considering who's posting in it. "Void has defeated Xavier telepathically!" (not really). Void has also failed to beat Spider-Man telepathically, but whatever. Void doesn't actually have a single telepathy showing that even remotely compares to most of Martian Manhunter's mid-level TP feats, so if I point out that J'onn's TP has worked against people like Dr. Destiny and the Red King, both of whom are ludicrously more powerful than Sentry, that's really the entire argument wrapped up then and there. That is, if I wanted to trumpet high-end feats like they're everyday occurrences for the character, but I really don't feel like stepping into Enzeru's shoes to see what that feels like.

I don't know why anyone even bothers trying to debate with Enzeru any more. He's so infatuated with his fantasy ideal of the Sentry that it's impossible to hold any kind of discussion with him; suggest that Sentry might not be the all-powerful entity he thinks he is, and sooner or later Enzeru will start crying about how the only reason (the only reason! Nothing else!) that you think Sentry can lose is that you hate the Sentry and can't stand the thought that your favorite character would lose to Lord Reynolds, Peace Be Upon Him.

Honestly, Void doesn't have a single offensive telepathy feat that compares to even New 52 Martian Manhunter's showing of defeating a psychic so powerful he murdered billions of telepaths with a wayward thought. That's the size of the gulf between them as far as psychic ability goes.

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#47 Edited by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Apologies for calling you out unnecessarily then. My experience with Enzeru is limited and I was wondering what you thought of his arguments and MM being unable to TP him.

#48 Posted by Saren (25067 posts) - - Show Bio

Although I did get a giggle over the suggestion that Sentry might have a chance at competing with the flipping Flash in the speed department, so I guess this thread was good for something.

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#49 Posted by jojjimbo (2463 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA/Avengers win.

#50 Edited by Dredeuced (5833 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@dredeuced: Interesting. For you to say that is quite something for Void's power level. What about BFR like he did to the Black Flash? Surely that's still on the table?

What he did to the Black Flash would not apply because Black Flash chased Wally to the end of the universe. If Wally attempted that he'd just be BFRing himself because Void has no need to chase him.

Now Wally HAS pseudo-BFR'd both Savitar and Cobalt Blue by running them into the Speed Force, which completely absorbed their energy. Who knows if that would work on Void -- it's entirely speculative if Void would be able to resist the Speed Force dump.

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