#1 Posted by nickzambuto (11427 posts) - - Show Bio

Steven Armstrong from Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance

vs

The original Fantastic Four, Human Torch, Invisible Woman, The Thing, and Mr. Fantastic.

No prep.

No knowledge.

Fight takes place in the middle of NYC.

#2 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

I will admit my knowledge of the senator isn't that good but I don't see why Sue can't solo unless the senator has more then just physicals going for him.

#3 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: The only reason i don't see sue soloing is due to her morals. It's just not like her to blow people open from their insides with no knowledge. In my opinion, Armstrong should dominate this fight until Sue decides to cross the line and kill him.

#4 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10238 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see why Ben can't do this alone...

#5 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: The only reason i don't see sue soloing is due to her morals. It's just not like her to blow people open from their insides with no knowledge. In my opinion, Armstrong should dominate this fight until Sue decides to cross the line and kill him.

Why can't she incapacitate him? Is the senator that strong? Her blasts have shielded her from a celestial before in Hickmans FF and IIRC she has contained both professor hulk and the thing at the same time effortlessly. Does he have the means to detect her while she is invisible as well?

#6 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Have you played the game? Ben would get murdered by Armstrong.

#7 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: He has combat speed that rivals the likes of Jetstream Sam, who can use a single Katana to deflect machine gunfire from 3 turrets at the same time with minimal effort. His travel speed basically surpasses Raiden's. He can rush/blitz opponents so quickly that both Raiden and Sam have trouble getting out of the way of the attacks. He is significantly stronger than Raiden, and at one point overpowered Raiden's two hands with his one, Raiden can lift an excess of 10,000+ tons. He is so durable that Raidens sword, that can cut at a molecular level couldn't even come close to piercing his skin, even amped up. Raiden blitzed him for about 20 seconds straight with a volley of amped punches, and he just stood there, didn't even flinch.

On top of all of this, he has powerful energy attacks that can be used from a distance or up close. Using an energy-infused punch, he put Raiden through Metal Gear Excelsus, sending parts of the robot flying everywhere in one strike. He can use attacks from a range too. I understand that sue's shields are strong, but IIRC, they don't cover the ground she walks on, which can be a huge problem, seeing how he can use energy attacks that come up through the ground in order to hit their targets. These attacks are strong, capable of dropping Raiden's health from full, to critical levels in one hit.

That's a basic rundown of what he can do. I don't think he could find sue while invisible to be honest. That could be his downfall.

#8 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10238 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Have you played the game? Ben would get murdered by Armstrong.

I have not played the game, but I saw the full fight, when did Raiden lift 10,000 tons

#9 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: For starters, he could lift a Metal Gear Ray and toss it like it was a medecine ball. A Metal Gear Ray is easily 5,000+ tons. What i am actually reffering to, is when he lifts and throws Metal Gear Excelsus. A world war 2 military sub weighs an excess of 40,000+ tons. In terms of mass and size, Metal Gear Excelsus was well over a world war 2 sub. So in reality, he can lift an ecxess of 50,000+ tons, and Armstrong was overpowering Raiden's two hand with his one.

#10 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara said:

@ancient_0f_days: For starters, he could lift a Metal Gear Ray and toss it like it was a medecine ball. A Metal Gear Ray is easily 5,000+ tons. What i am actually reffering to, is when he lifts and throws Metal Gear Excelsus. A world war 2 military sub weighs an excess of 40,000+ tons. In terms of mass and size, Metal Gear Excelsus was well over a world war 2 sub. So in reality, he can lift an ecxess of 50,000+ tons, and Armstrong was overpowering Raiden's two hand with his one.

Rex was 1000 tons and weight just a little more than Ray.

Grey Fox held the stomping Hydralic foot with Strain. Raiden with momentum toss a Ray which is impressive. Either way this puts high end showings of Cyborg Ninjas showings in the 500 ton area.

So Thing is 100 tons.... Raiden is 500 tons.....

You do the math.

#11 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I'm pretty sure Ben is above 100 tons.

#12 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I'm pretty sure Ben is above 100 tons.

Im pretty sure he is stated most times around 80 tons and now barely 100 tons by many official sources.

Beside, when Thing can beat Hulk or Abomination (who is only 200 tons) in a fight, let me know.

#13 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: He did beat Gray Hulk. And the best feats I have seen are him over powering a machine that can go through a planet and holding up an oil rig along with pushing a skyscraper back into place when it fell.

#14 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio
@bronze_surfer said:

@cadencev2: He did beat Gray Hulk. And the best feats I have seen are him over powering a machine that can go through a planet and holding up an oil rig along with pushing a skyscraper back into place when it fell.

He beat Grey Hulk when he had a major power amp. And even then Grey Hulk won the second fight.

High End feats. He does that but fails to hold his own against Savage Hulk, WWH, weakest version Grey Hulk (Second Round and Thing had Power Amp) and basically overall stated as little better than Colossus or Doc Samson in strength.

#15 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10238 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, now that I know exactly how strong Raiden is (500 tons, not 50,000) and can compare his strength to Armstrong's and speculate the rest. I retract my earlier statement and now know that it will take the whole team to beat Armstrong, as Thing would in fact get murdered alone .....

#16 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing short of Torch going Nova or Sue Head Popping for any easy win. The next question is can they react to a guy somewhere in the Mach 1.5-2 area. He may be Mach 3 depending on the speed of bullets the turrets use. Most rounds are around 2400 FPS (Mach 2) and Anti Tank rounds are even faster in the Mach 3s.

So Speed blitzing may be a major factor as well.

#17 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Rex was 1000 tons and weight just a little more than Ray.

I guess the actual fact book rules out, i really don't think that it would be 1,000 tons, It should, realistically be a lot more. Still, Raiden did lift and toss Metal Gear Excelsus. Since there is no actual stats released on this monster of a machine (that i am aware of) It can be assumed that, Metal Gear Excelsus weighs over 10,000 maybe even 50,000 tons.

This is your standard container ship, averaging around 50,000 tons. Excelsus is a big, if not bigger than this ship in terms of pure mass and size.

In reality, this makes sense. Raiden was under quite the strain while lifting Excelsus, he lifted and threw Ray's without too much effort at all.

#19 Edited by God_Spawn (35982 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not exactly sure where people are getting their information from, but the Thing has been well beyond class 100 in terms of feats for awhile now.

Moderator
#20 Edited by dondave (26665 posts) - - Show Bio

FF

#21 Posted by nickzambuto (11427 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Rex was 1000 tons and weight just a little more than Ray.

I guess the actual fact book rules out, i really don't think that it would be 1,000 tons, It should, realistically be a lot more. Still, Raiden did lift and toss Metal Gear Excelsus. Since there is no actual stats released on this monster of a machine (that i am aware of) It can be assumed that, Metal Gear Excelsus weighs over 10,000 maybe even 50,000 tons.

This is your standard container ship, averaging around 50,000 tons. Excelsus is a big, if not bigger than this ship in terms of pure mass and size.

In reality, this makes sense. Raiden was under quite the strain while lifting Excelsus, he lifted and threw Ray's without too much effort at all.

I think I might actually have an explanation for this. The bipedal Metal Gear units, such as REX, are meant for maneuverability and agility in combat. They are designed to travel long distances and remain hidden from the enemy so they're not destroyed. Though technically not a Metal Gear due to having no nuclear launch capabilities, RAY was likewise meant for agility and underwater capabilities. If I remember correctly, RAY's original purpose was to actually swim across the ocean to remain undetected, pop up at an enemy base, destroy it before anyone can react, then quickly retreat. According to Otacon, it's for this reason that they were designed with lightweight, composite armor

Excelsus on the other hand, has no need for agility. Doktor tells Raiden that the purpose of Excelsus was to combat the growing cyborg population through raw power, rampaging through enemy bases and just destroying everything. That's why it was quadrupedal instead of bipedal. We can clearly see in-game that the machine has enough trouble supporting it's own weight; it won't be doing backflips and engaging in h2h combat like REX and RAY were.

So basically, REX and RAY needed travel capabilities and were created with lightweight armor. Excelsus was the exact opposite, created to be an unstoppable juggernaut with impermeable armor to destroy everything in it's path (Doktor gives a pretty good explanation of this if you CODEC call him a few times. Metal Gears were originally created as the "missing link between infantry and artillery." To combat these mechs, cyborgs were created, using speed and numbers, an army of cyborgs could destroy a Metal Gear. Then to combat the cyborgs, Excelsus was created to overcome them with sheer power. It's a never ending cycle. Pretty soon every cyborg will be as powerful as Raiden, then in response the Metal Gears will get even bigger, etc.) So since we have no numbers on Excelsus's exact weight, it'd make more sense for it to be within the tens of thousands of tons, instead of only a couple. This is supported by the fact that white suit Raiden manhandled Metal Gear RAY and bodily tossed it tens of meters through the air, whereas black suit Raiden (much more powerful) struggled just to flip Excelsus.