Semifinals: TNBB vs Solomon

"I can shadow travel," Nico said. "A few hundred miles at a time"

Waves of darkness rolled off the son of Hades. When they hit Jason, he almost lost consciousness, overwhelmed by hatred and fear and shame...

Nico screamed, and the Earth swallowed them whole

Since Reed has access to stark tower and the brain of tony stark he would just grab the latest models of Iron man suits which are proven to have gamma shielding. All he would have to do is have Jarvis activate the AI controlled armor option and have the armors get battle ready while Reed was working on other things.

While it is certainly powerful it is limited by his own mind as well as not being able to harm other organic life without taking lethal feedback. Batman, Midnighter, and B5 have all had experience with him in the past and in B5's case he knows almost everything about him even before the buff that my whole team received in the way of full knowledge and perfect teamwork. Reed was able to defeat Diablo who was capable of transmutation but to be fair nothing he ever did was on the scale of Firestorm. Firestorm is very powerful and will be the first person brought down as soon as the fight starts. He wont have the time to react and will be blasted by Bullseye due to my 15 minutes of prep as well as perfect teamwork. Devils Advocate: Assuming I chose not to go with that plan I could just use one of Reeds targeted Bio Bombs that would render much of his transmutation useless without causing great harm to himself.

Gallery

Reed was capable of overloading Cerebro with a slight tweak causing a much greater effect than anything that Nico could produce. I did some digging on the boy and found that all he can do with his power is make people afraid for the most part and it isn't a permanent effect. I highly doubt he would even make it far enough into this fight for him to even matter but if he did the Iron man helmets tuned up to be like Magnetos helmet should work just fine.

My team possess the Necronomicon which is a book of great power ruling over the dead and daemons. The power of the book in enough to match Nico and even outmatch him. The Necronomicon has much better feats such as mass possession, mass summoning, reality manipulation, BFR to entirely different forms of media universes, Raising the dead, corrupting the weak(not helpful here), and plenty of other stuff. Now the book would otherwise be useless if it were not for Black Panther and Reed being on my team and knowing how to use it as Ash is a dunce and makes sure that he has it for the purpose of making sure no one else does. Also Reed and B5 are not do not have souls.

He usually doesn't open with that move but regardless I have counters in place besides the depower gun,BFR, bombs, Bullseye, etc. Not to long ago Iron Man fought with Mags and was successful in stalling him out and hampering his power quite a bit using thousands of strong magnets. That suit would be one of the ones that would be on my team. If you know Tony Stark than you know if he has one of something then you can bet he has 4 more of it somewhere.

First off I would like to point out the fact that you have Hulk on your team who is not a team player to begin with and now you have given him a Red Lantern ring... As soon as someone receives a red lantern ring they go off into a murderous rampage killing anything and anyone in front of them. Hulk already normally does this and amped by the ring it will only be much worse. Your putting a super raged out murder crazy hulk next to Magneeto whom he already knows and hates. You could bet money that they are going to fight and besides that whos to say the rest of your team doesn't just have to kill him before you get out of prep. Hulks a tough fella and he would certinaly take atleast one other member of your team with him. Let me remind you that other than on 1 PIS occasion all new Red Lanterns go onto a rampage of murder and wrecking stuff( Dex-Star the angry blue cat).

You haven't let me even begin to prep and you're already questioning it? lol, okay. just wait.

As for the Magneto point, I'm sorry but when exactly have the Hulk and Magneto fought? And why would they hate each other? Remember, this is WW Hulk, who was a tactical genius of sorts, figuring out ways to put down the most versatile of opponents. He also resisted the urge to kill Stark, Xavier, Sentry, Strange etc... even though they caused the death of his wife and so. Could you imagine how much control that must have taken? He's very much in control of his anger. You're also forgetting that Composite Hulk includes Bruce Banner, who probably controls his anger better than anyone in any universe (otherwise he would never be around). Yes, I went that far. I believe he definitely could control his anger. Supergirl and Guy Gardner know nothing about controlling rage compared to Banner and Hulk, and even Guy was able to control himself.

Your team is volatile and will not work together. Nico diAngelo is not enough to get your team to work together. His best feats being making a demigod sad don't hold a candle to an amped up Red Lantern Hulk. There is no way that you can remove that destructive element. Firestorm hates Deathstroke he probably wont do anything to him immediately but they most definitely wont be working together very well. Nico when he just gets warped in wont automagicly make your team work together he has never seen these people in his entire life and for him to do it is out of character. He might be able to get Deathstroke and Firestorm to play along but I cant see him getting past Mag's helmet.

Hulk isn't starting as a Red Lantern. I have my team + a red lantern ring, not RL Hulk. He's going to put on the ring at the end of prep, and probably just pout in the beginning. It may be true that many incarnations of Hulk are not team players, but Hulk is a consistent member of the Avengers, and WW Hulk was extremely focused on the task at hand, not randomly smashing people.

I'm not saying they'll have the greatest chemistry in the world, but they'll cooperate. Mags is no rabid dog either.

SO at the start of your prep time Hulk goes on a muderspree the rest of your team puts him down but not before he kills Deathstroke, Nico, and maybe Mags leaving you with a crippled team and not much time left for actual prep.

• * Also dont try and tell me that Hulk could control the rage and not go on a murderspree. All Red Lanterns go on murderspees and those that have more rage have even more trouble controlling it. For example you can look at the recent Red Lantern Super Girl then think back to Hulk. Hulk is MUCH angrier and so much more filled with rage. He is a literal rage monster! There is no way any version of Hulk or Banner for that matter would ever be able to control themselves with that ring on them.

See above. Banner is an expert at controlling himself. Supergirl is nothing compared to Banner. Atrocitus was able to control it, as was Guy Gardner, so why couldn't Banner, the man who's been doing it for more than 30 years?

So best case scenario for you only Nico dies before Hulk is brought down leaving you with Firestorm,Deathstroke, and Mags. From that point Firestorm will try to rally Mags not knowing who he is to try and prepare for the battle that they know is soon to come ( That is also assuming that they didn't just think that hulk was the battle). Mags would be defiant and trying to figure out a way home and dismissing the remaining team, Deathstroke still being his cock self trying to figure out whats going on generally being a prick and trying to figure out who he needs to kill that got him sent here, and Firestorm is left trying to be an inspiring leader to 2 of the strongest standoffish lone wolf personalities. THEN the fight starts...

Wrong. Worst case scenario Hulk doesn't speak to the rest of the team. And he won't need to, considering what I'm doing with my prep.

In addition, Nico's empathy actually is pretty powerful. He has forced people to sleep/surrender (the wiki isn't updated considering the last book just came out 3 months ago) with it, and once, when he was targeting Cupid the god of love with it, the backlash almost caused a demigod (who he wasn't even targeting) to almost be KO'd. Not "make a demigod sad". So if he's focusing? They'll cooperate. But none of that will be necessary.

Hulk knows who Magneto is they haven't fought one on one but he most certainly does not care for him.

Your missing the point of the Red Lantern ring. The more rage a person has the harder it is to control and he will most certainly not be able to control it the whole point of the ring is for him to lose control. The angriest hulk EVER suddenly gets a ring that removes all inhibitions and makes you go on a murderous rampage according to how angry he was. There is NO way he doesn't flip out as soon as he gets that ring. They way you are presenting the ring is its only a buff for him with no downsides and that simply is not the case. It will consume him and he will destroy whomever is closest to him.

• Hulk isn't starting as a Red Lantern. I have my team + a red lantern ring, not RL Hulk. He's going to put on the ring at the end of prep, and probably just pout in the beginning. It may be true that many incarnations of Hulk are not team players, but Hulk is a consistent member of the Avengers, and WW Hulk was extremely focused on the task at hand, not randomly smashing people.

  I'm not saying they'll have the greatest chemistry in the world, but they'll cooperate. Mags is no rabid dog either.

Okay so running with that now you have Hulk who hates everything, Mags who thinks hes god, Deathstroke whos a prick, and your other 2 functioning member of society. They will be very unlikely to work very well together and to assume that they will be pals in just 2 minutes is ridiculous. Maybe with the full 15 minutes but most certainly not in 2. When they first get there they will all trying to figure out what is going on not becoming best friends with strangers.

• See above. Banner is an expert at controlling himself. Supergirl is nothing compared to Banner. Atrocitus was able to control it, as was Guy Gardner, so why couldn't Banner, the man who's been doing it for more than 30 years?

Supergirl went on a rampage :P Atrocitus was able to control it because he was on the planet in the blood and he just made the Red Lantern Battery. Guy Gardner still lost his shit at first and he was a seasoned Green Lantern. He also still had his other ring. The point of the Red Lantern Ring is that you lose yourself according to how much rage you keep inside you. Hulk has more than anyone. When Hulk puts the ring on he WILL lose his sh$t. The more rage you have the worse it is.

• Wrong. Worst case scenario Hulk doesn't speak to the rest of the team. And he won't need to, considering what I'm doing with my prep.

  In addition, Nico's empathy actually is pretty powerful. He has forced people to sleep/surrender (the wiki isn't updated considering the last book just came out 3 months ago) with it, and once, when he was targeting Cupid the god of love with it, the backlash almost caused a demigod (who he wasn't even targeting) to almost be KO'd. Not "make a demigod sad". So if he's focusing? They'll cooperate. But none of that will be necessary.

  Okay sure but that being the case your prep take much longer than 2 minutes as I said.

Its not powerful enough to sway Hulk one inch and it wont get past Mags helmet. For him to be doing that with people he hasn't met before is out of character.

Hulk knows who Magneto is they haven't fought one on one but he most certainly does not care for him.

Your missing the point of the Red Lantern ring. The more rage a person has the harder it is to control and he will most certainly not be able to control it the whole point of the ring is for him to lose control. The angriest hulk EVER suddenly gets a ring that removes all inhibitions and makes you go on a murderous rampage according to how angry he was. There is NO way he doesn't flip out as soon as he gets that ring. They way you are presenting the ring is its only a buff for him with no downsides and that simply is not the case. It will consume him and he will destroy whomever is closest to him.

Okay... I don't see why Hulk would randomly attack someone he's never met. I really hate it when people just assume he's a raging monster that destroys everything in his path and doesn't give a sh*t about anything. Even giants have hearts :(

But seriously, there's no reason for Hulk to attack Magneto. They've literally never met. Even if he knows about Mags, I'm pretty sure he can accept Mags's role as a survivor, one that Hulk knows all too well. Actually, I think Magneto and Hulk would get along very well. They both had their families killed by a group of people (humans for Mags, Illuminati for Hulk) and wanted to get revenge.

Okay so running with that now you have Hulk who hates everything, Mags who thinks hes god, Deathstroke whos a prick, and your other 2 functioning member of society. They will be very unlikely to work very well together and to assume that they will be pals in just 2 minutes is ridiculous. Maybe with the full 15 minutes but most certainly not in 2. When they first get there they will all trying to figure out what is going on not becoming best friends with strangers.

I'm running with 5 people who will do everything possible to survive/win. Magneto doesn't have a god complex anymore at all... I don't care about Deathstroke. I only wanted him for his armor which is immune to magic. And the other 2 are cooperative. They won't be pals, but they'll work together. All of them have strong work ethics and are determined, powerful individuals.

Supergirl went on a rampage :P Atrocitus was able to control it because he was on the planet in the blood and he just made the Red Lantern Battery. Guy Gardner still lost his shit at first and he was a seasoned Green Lantern. He also still had his other ring. The point of the Red Lantern Ring is that you lose yourself according to how much rage you keep inside you. Hulk has more than anyone. When Hulk puts the ring on he WILL lose his sh$t. The more rage you have the worse it is.

Supergirl hasn't been learning how to contol her ever since her arrival on the comics scene. So what Guy is a seasoned GL? One of his biggest criticisms was that he let his anger and passion loose too much. And this same man was able to control the ring. Yet, you say someone that's had years of pracice doing it, isn't going to? Doesn't make sense.

Even if he did lose his sh*t, it would be towards your team, as he's not putting on the ring until the end of our prep. And no, the point is to harness your rage into something great, it's just that there are not many people capable of harnessing that rage without letting it consume them. Hulk/Banner is one of those people. No offense, but it seems like you're spouting things without knowing what exactly you're talking about.

Its not powerful enough to sway Hulk one inch and it wont get past Mags helmet. For him to be doing that with people he hasn't met before is out of character.

I know. I was just pointing out that his empathy was actually pretty impressive.

Hulk knows who Magneto is they haven't fought one on one but he most certainly does not care for him.

Your missing the point of the Red Lantern ring. The more rage a person has the harder it is to control and he will most certainly not be able to control it the whole point of the ring is for him to lose control. The angriest hulk EVER suddenly gets a ring that removes all inhibitions and makes you go on a murderous rampage according to how angry he was. There is NO way he doesn't flip out as soon as he gets that ring. They way you are presenting the ring is its only a buff for him with no downsides and that simply is not the case. It will consume him and he will destroy whomever is closest to him.

Okay... I don't see why Hulk would randomly attack someone he's never met. I really hate it when people just assume he's a raging monster that destroys everything in his path and doesn't give a sh*t about anything. Even giants have hearts :(

But seriously, there's no reason for Hulk to attack Magneto. They've literally never met. Even if he knows about Mags, I'm pretty sure he can accept Mags's role as a survivor, one that Hulk knows all too well. Actually, I think Magneto and Hulk would get along very well. They both had their families killed by a group of people (humans for Mags, Illuminati for Hulk) and wanted to get revenge.

Okay so running with that now you have Hulk who hates everything, Mags who thinks hes god, Deathstroke whos a prick, and your other 2 functioning member of society. They will be very unlikely to work very well together and to assume that they will be pals in just 2 minutes is ridiculous. Maybe with the full 15 minutes but most certainly not in 2. When they first get there they will all trying to figure out what is going on not becoming best friends with strangers.

I'm running with 5 people who will do everything possible to survive/win. Magneto doesn't have a god complex anymore at all... I don't care about Deathstroke. I only wanted him for his armor which is immune to magic. And the other 2 are cooperative. They won't be pals, but they'll work together. All of them have strong work ethics and are determined, powerful individuals.

My team is doing all of that and more. My team has perfect teamwork and knows everything about eachother before the battle even starts. They wont trip over each-others attacks and can synchronize and counter all of what your team can dish out.

Supergirl went on a rampage :P Atrocitus was able to control it because he was on the planet in the blood and he just made the Red Lantern Battery. Guy Gardner still lost his shit at first and he was a seasoned Green Lantern. He also still had his other ring. The point of the Red Lantern Ring is that you lose yourself according to how much rage you keep inside you. Hulk has more than anyone. When Hulk puts the ring on he WILL lose his sh$t. The more rage you have the worse it is.

Supergirl hasn't been learning how to contol her ever since her arrival on the comics scene. So what Guy is a seasoned GL? One of his biggest criticisms was that he let his anger and passion loose too much. And this same man was able to control the ring. Yet, you say someone that's had years of pracice doing it, isn't going to? Doesn't make sense.

Even if he did lose his sh*t, it would be towards your team, as he's not putting on the ring until the end of our prep. And no, the point is to harness your rage into something great, it's just that there are not many people capable of harnessing that rage without letting it consume them. Hulk/Banner is one of those people. No offense, but it seems like you're spouting things without knowing what exactly you're talking about.

Okay I am not spouting off things that I dont know what I am talking about and for the record Guy did lose his sh*t and start murdering. He tore off the arm of a mother looking for her children and shoved it down her throat...

Its not powerful enough to sway Hulk one inch and it wont get past Mags helmet. For him to be doing that with people he hasn't met before is out of character.

I know. I was just pointing out that his empathy was actually pretty impressive.

My team is doing all of that and more. My team has perfect teamwork and knows everything about eachother before the battle even starts. They wont trip over each-others attacks and can synchronize and counter all of what your team can dish out.

Okay I am not spouting off things that I dont know what I am talking about and for the record Guy did lose his sh*t and start murdering. He tore off the arm of a mother looking for her children and shoved it down her throat...

Ok? I didn't say anything about your teamwork.

Yes, Guy did, but Guy hasn't been controlling his rage all his life like Banner or Hulk. I believe I'd successfully refuted all your teamwork and prep questions. Now, let's get on to other things.

Let's stop this BS about Firestorm not being able to transmute living creatures, shall we?.

Please research characters before talking about them like you're an expert.

It is not counter prep and is most certianly allowed. My team knows full well everything about your team so they would conduct there prep from within the negative zone. Also I would love to see scans of Firestorms precog about beings that are in another dimension. He wont have any way of telling what will be coming.

1. Is there a portal to the negative zone in Stark Tower?
2. Has Reed ever conducted prep in the negative zone? Has anyone on your team, for that matter? And don't bring up that instance with Annihilus and the Avengers, because they were trapped there during that storyline. I don't know much about Reed, but it's certainly not in character for Batman or Black Panther to hide before the fight has even begun. And if they've never gone to the negative zone before a battle, then they won't.
3. I showed you precog, literally in my first post. Flashes of foresight that he can show to other people. Magneto sees BP and Reed, Firestorm sees Batman.

Also, the Firestorm matrix is sort of another dimension in and of itself. In Forever Evil it was used as a prison to house the Justice League.

Summoning constructs, and raising an army of dead, attack an unkown enemy from all diferent angles, haveing Nico and Firestorm act out of character... That my friend is what we call a plan. Perhaps but they are still clashing.

Uh, how are they acting out of character? The scan above and the Black Lantern Ronnie scan show that there are versions of Firestorm willing to kill. And I'm using Composite Firestorm, allowing me to take the best out of different versions of him. Thus, he'll be willing to kill. Clashing or not, they'll work together.

Ah thats a wonderfully cheeky way to bend the rules. I am not going to push this any further other than I think that is silly considering you didnt pay for a Firestorm that has all the powers of a white and black lantern. Regardless of this Firestorm is in character and he wouldnt simply just kill my team. Thats not his style he avoids killing whenever possiable. Normal Firestorm wouldnt even be able to harm organinc life without dealing with the feedback. He also would not absorb Deathstroke into himself.

All of your characters are in character.

We had literally 4 days to question each others' characters. Firestorm was not brought up, and I explicitly specified that I would use all versions. If you thought that unfair, you should have voted on it then. Jason's gotten pretty dark in the past... just see the above scan to wreck your entire statement.

Again, I don't care about Deathstroke. I just wanted him for his armor, which, by the way, is Nth Metal, meaning it's immune to magic.

Seeing as how you've edited your prep countless times in this debate, I'm going to do the same. Magneto and Firestorm realize that we have a weakness to magic, so Firestorm analyzes and reproduces Deathstroke's Nth Metal Armor while coating it with anti-magic bubbles as shown in Fury of Firestorm #4 when he trapped Zatanna in an anti-magic bubble. So there go all your magic arguments!

Apperantly you dont know Ultimate Reed. Ultimate Reed is not even human. He is the arguably the smartest being in both the Marvel and DC universes. He has a perfect memory and doesnt forget anything that he has absorbed. When he was in dooms body instead of rushing back to help the rest of the F4 he satyed and read and memorized all of dooms dooks on magic. When he returned he was able to use summoning spells and necrotize flesh without even uttering the spell words. He also used magic to ruin Diablo's Transmutation and defeat him. Also your thing about not getting it right the first time is ridiculous. Reed on his first try made a gun that made a big bang in an empty universe (he made that device in one day on an alien planet using what he had on his ship.), The Depower gun's first test was that of the scans I showed above, The Anti-matter bombs first test blew up North America. Reed and BP will have no problem using the Necronomicon to its fullest potential.

You're absolutely correct, I don't know Ultimate Reed, and unlike you, I'm fine with admitting it. Perfect memory is a no-limit fallacy. Making devices, and using equipment are two different things. You're basically saying that because his gadgets have worked the first time, he'll be able to master the material of a reality-warping book in 15 minutes. I'm just not seeing it and I wouldn't like to discuss it any further. Let the voters decide.

Also, Reed and BP are heroes. All of my characters are either antiheroes or superheroes that aren't afraid to go dark. Batman, for one, would have a huge problem with Reed trying to kill us at all. Perfect teamwork is cool, but it doesn't change the fact that Batman opposes killing whenever possible. At the very least he'll try to convince your team to not kill which will take up most of your prep.

Here we see Reed using dark magic in Doom's body. Note that just because he is in Doom's body does not mean he would already be able to use magic. This is evidenced by Doom in Reeds body using magic.

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I could be), but I believe that the most recent incarnation of Ultimate Reed was back in his body. Did he ever use magic after returning to his own body? If he didn't, then he can't. It's possible that Doom's mind and Doom's body could use magic, but if neither are present then Reed cannot.

Anyway, all your magic is useless because of Nth Metal.

No it will not. Magneto's sheilds aren't even capable of withstanding a nuclear blast as evidenced when he was killed at his moon base in the Punisher Kills series. He first would have to survive an Anti-matter bomb and then stand up to the depower gun. Mag's shields are not strong enough to withstand an Anti-Matter bomb the scan below will show the blast. Also to say that the depower gun wouldn't get through his shields is ridiculous It got through to and depowered Franklin Richards who had the Phoenix Force. Franklin Defeated 3 celestials by himself casually tanking there attacks. He also tanked the full might of Galactus and Reurected him as one of his heralds. There is no way Mag's shields even come close to that much power. The Franklin in these scans didn't even have the Phoenix force.

Magneto's shields... can't stand up to a nuke????

That's the shields standing up to TWO nukes. And it also stood up to the Jean Grey Phoenix, much more powerful than the Ultimate Franklin Richards Phoenix (unless, of course, you can show me feat that stands up to universe busting, I'll get you the scan if you'd like).

You're trying to lowball characters and that's just something that isn't taken seriously here on CV. For example I can say, Thanos was beaten by cops, or Silver Surfer was defeated by Thor, but either of those characters are still far above a Superman level being.

No what I said was that from his first idea of it to its completion took 2 days. He isn't reinventing here and he has a better lab at his disposal than the one he came up with it in. It would not take him more than an hour to recreate a handheld device where literally no thinking or brainstorming is required all he needs to do is put it together. It took him over a week to figure out how to make the bomb but once he figured it out it was stated that he made each one in only an hour each. The fact that you are a robotics student means nothing and your point is invalid. Reed doesn't have to reinvent anything this time around. He already knows how to make it. When he made it he had no idea how it would be put together or even if it would work and he made it in 2 days. Inventing something takes much more time than recreating something.

A better lab does not necessarily mean it will be faster.... and say what you want, the fact is that he's made a de-power gun once, and it took 2 days. Look, if I try to build a computer with all the necessary parts, it will take me quite a while the first time, but the second time it will take me less. However, if I try to build an iPhone from scratch? It's going to take me forever connecting all the little transistors in it, even if I have done it before. Even if it did take less time, we don't know how much less, and saying he could build it in an hour is purely speculation.

No attacking from different angles does not help you. The Midnighter has fought with multiple red lanterns as well as Atrocitus. Keep in mind that base Midnighter cant fly and has marginally high super strength. He is amped in this situation because of the perfect teamwork and full knowledge. There will be nothing that surprise him and it will not help you any. All it will do is allow my team to pick off you members individually.

Atrocitus is not World Breaker Hulk. Perfect teamwork and full knowledge is not an amp of any kind... lol

He might not be surprised, but he can't fend off 4 powerhouses simultaneously attacking him with a variety of attacks.

Countering the Phases again.

The scan of Firestorm is impressive however as I said he is the first to be taken down due to his power and my teams knowledge of him. This would also take him some time to retrieve hulk.

Reed has a mastery of all known sciences. He used Hanks tech to enlarge the Hulk to a huge size to help him fight. That lets us know that it already works on hulk and that the reverse can be done to him as well.

here is proof of both.

Gallery

2. That they would do that, considering they'd be defending against 6 attacks at once (Firestorm, Nico, Mags, Hulk, dragons, army of the dead)

Nico, Mags, Dragons, and army of the dead are all removed by the bomb. Also the Necronomicon is more than capable of taking the dragons and the army. It is a sentient book after all and I do have perfect teamwork so it would be more than willing to fill in the non existent gaps in Reeds knowledge.

Okay, so how is Firestorm going to be put down? You know he can absorb energy, having absorbed the energy of 2 nuclear reactors in one of his solo issues before? Why couldn't he absorb the bomb and redirect it against you. Also, the bomb scans are not impressive, they didn't rip through any shielding whatsoever whereas here they will have to.

The book is sentient?!?!?! So you essentially paid for another character. Would it be OK if I said Composite Firestorm includes a Justice League communicator and called up the JLA? No, it wouldn't. You're just breaking the rules if it's sentient.

Pertaining to the winning conditions if Hulk was sent to the microverse and couldnt come back that would clasify as a win. Besides that he can be BFRed via the Necronomicon or by Reed shooting him into the Negative Zone

Thanks to the Midnighters precog I would know exactly where he was and what to do. Midnighter himself has tangoed with Atrocitus and killed his share of Red Lanterns. Hulk wont even be able to hit my team before he is dealt with.

You want to react to Hulk? Nico ghostifies you from behind. You want to react to Nico? Magneto kills you with the iron-blood trick. You want to react to Mags? Firestorm turns you into cement. You want to react to FS? Hulk one shots you. All any of my characters need is about two seconds to kill your entire team.

Well first off what you are saying is out of character for most of your guys. Nico has only ever done that once as a very last resort, Magneto never opens with that and my team is protected with Ironman suits and flight rings, Frirestorm would never do that! he is in character haveing the feats of a black lantern doesnt mean hes going to suddenly drop his morals and use those feats. All of the things that you mentioned require very intrace planing and percision on the part of your team. You only have 15 minutes and have no knowledge of my team you simply cant pull what your saying off in 15 minutes without any prior knowledge and a great team leader or tactician (deathstroke doesnt help because he doesnt know who anyone on my team is or what they are capable of except for Batman, and the Midnighter.)

Magneto's opened with it before..... several times actually on Wolverine, Cable etc.... also once against Cannonball and Storm he opened by using iron in blood to physically control them.

Nico's done it many times.... against Bryce, against Daedalus, against monsters where he drained their souls using his sword... also against Bryce it was his opening move.

Firestorm could open with it.... he knows how good Batman is. He's transmuted people before, many times...

How is it intricate? I'm just attacking you! Also, just saying, Magneto is most definitely a tactical genius.

Secondly there is now way Mag's or Nico survive the bomb!

It's called "shields"

Nico

He's banished peoples' souls multiple times, actually. It's not his go to move but if Magneto tells him how good your team is? He'll do it. Also, Brainiac 5 is a Coluan, lol. He does have a soul. He's not a robot. Reed I don't know about, but if he's alive then he has a soul.

If thats true than prove it. I have only ever seen it happen one time. Mag's has no way to tell how good my team is nor does Firestorm. True I forgot about that. Reed Is not alive Reed died in the accident and was replaced by bacteria stacks. He has no organs or blood and does not require food or air. The real Reed died long ago and has already passed on. Reed is just a bunch of bacteria Nico wont be able to harm him.

You've never read Percy Jackson. He did it in Last Olympian against monsters where he sucked their souls out with his sword to make them stay in Tartarus for longer, also against Bryce in Blood of Olympus, and against Daedalus in Battle of Labyrinth (granted Daedalus was a special case). Bacteria are living creatures and thus they have souls.

Also there is no way Nico survives the blast.

Magneto's shields.

Magneto

Childish? Says the person that said Magneto and Hulk were mortal enemies, that Brainiac 5 was a total expert on Firestorm, that Brainiac 5 does the anti-matter bomb in character, that the purpose of the red lantern ring is to go crazy.

Now you are twisting my words I did not say Magneto and Hulk were mortal enemies all I said is that he knows who he is and that he likely hates him because of the awful stuff he has done. Braniniac 5 is a total expert on Firestorm he spent many years studying all of the great heros of the past as well as having all of the knowledge of all the Brainiacs that came before him. So yes B5 does know about Firestorm. Using the bomb is made in character by the perfect teamwork that my team possess there is no disagreeing of morals on my team and he would most certainly use it due to that. My point with the Red Lantern ring was that as I have previously stated as soon as you put it on the wearer looses control of themselves. I already refuted the examples that you produced.

Uh.... all of your team has morals, lol.... they're all superheroes. Batman never kills, Brainiac doesn't kill, don't know about Ultimate Reed, Midnighter is a mercenary, T'Challa tries not to kill when he can avoid it.

When has any Brainiac encountered Firestorm?

The blood rip has happened like what 2 times since he has been a character? Without him having prep and some kind of team leader with teamwork he would not open with that move.

Blood control/rip has happened many, many times. Magneto is a highly capable leader himself... he literally managed a (sort of) country in Genosha.

Besides that he is unable to survive the blast of the bomb.

SHIELDS

Firestorm

Black Lantern firestorm names himself Deathstorm in Brightest Day. Thats his name. He didn't have one in blackest night but it was still him. In that scan was Deathstorm. I was under the impression that you were using Ronnie and not Jason. Besides that it is out of character for him to kill people! I do know what I am talking about and I own all of Blackest Night and Brightest Day.

I'm using Composite. Not out of character, just see the scan above. Jason is pretty nasty sometimes.

All of that still will not save him form being depowered instantly. If Jason can lose to Lex and the Joker with prep( see i can use Google :D) then Reed with complete knowledge is more than enough for him. Especially since he has no way of being able to prepare what is going to happen to him.

The only reason Lex and Joker were able to do that is because Martin Stein published a huge paper on Firestorm and how he could be neutralized, which you don't have access to. Full knowledge means all knowledge that we, the readers, have. And also, they caught him by surprise and had to blast him to win. He has a way to prepare and it's called precog.

You have to remember that your characters are in character and mine are not.

What? Yes they are. Perfect Teamwork doesn't mean morals off.

Necronomicon

It is capable of reality warping but it doesn't mean it has to be used. It was only ever achieved by Freddy Kruger who is already a reality warper. Firestorm can do many of the same things the book is capable of. I don't need any of its reality warping capabilities. Also thats not one of the listed rules anyhow and that was one of the listed perks that you had to pay points for. I remember because I ran into the same problem when I was facing Jacthripper and he had purchased it.

Final Other Stuff

The bomb can be made and is easy to do so. I wasnt even considering useing B5s version as its overkill. Reeds Anti-matter Bomb only take one hour to make and it is in character for my team. Hell with perfect teamwork I could do a sacrifice of blood and bone and kill off Ash and Bats. With perfect teamwork they would be willing to do whatever was necessary.

Reed's anti-matter bomb.... has never ripped through a shield of any kind, much less Magneto's. Perfect teamwork does not mean morals off. It would mean morals majority. So, let's do a head count.

No killing at all: Bruce, B5

Strong dislike for killing: Reed, T'Challa

Killing is OK: Bullseye, Midnighter

So that means morals majority would be strong dislike for killing! So it's not morals off at all.

Magneto's shields are not strong enough to withstand the blast of the bomb. I remind you that Wolverine also tanked a blast from her and was fine. There is no way wolverine could tank a blast from 3 Celestials (Franklin's shields tanked this but were still not enough to stop Reed and his gun even though he was even more amped with the Phoenix Force,)just as there in no way that mags could either. His shields were breached by a nuke on the moon and he died. This bomb is thousands of times more destructive than that of the one that killed him.

Lowballing and ABC logic are frowned upon. You know Magneto's shields have also taken offhanded blasts from Galactus?

Do you realize how dumb ABC logic is? Let's go through a sample of ABC logic.

Wolverine has defeated Hulk. Hulk has defeated Thor. Thor has defeated Silver Surfer. So could Wolverine stand a chance against Surfer? Not a chance.

That's the same logic you're applying, and it's horrible logic. Also, in the scan you posted it seemed as if Franklin was caught off guard by Reed, and didn't have his shields up.

Now you're just lowballing. Composite Mags gives me composite feats, and here on the battles forum we don't lowball.

Also, Franklin's shields weren't up in that scan......

How would he know what he is up against? Thats simply not possible.

It's called Precog, buddy.

1. Reed can't make anything you say he can in the allotted time... the depower gun alone takes all of his prep time.
2. All your characters have street level durability, easily one shotted by a super amped WB Hulk. All he has to do is stomp in your direction, and you're dead.
3. All your characters have metal on or in their bodies, meaning Magneto can one shot them.
4. No defense for ghostification
5. No defense for transmutation

1. Yes he can and quite easily. The depower gun does not take up anywhere near the full time.

He's never made the depower gun in less than 2 days. So he can't and suggesting he can is purely speculation. See example above.

2. Reed,B5,BP all have above street level durability. I have already expressed 2 separate ways to defeat hulk.

Cool. Hulk still smashes them after Firestorm gets him out of the microverse.

3. No he cant. Also out of character and you have no prior knowlege

PRECOG. Not out of character at all, he does it all the time. Against security guards, against Wolverine, against Cable, you name it.

4. Nico dies in the bomb. Reed is immune, Ash is resistant, Very out of character for him to open with that move.

You must have missed the part where Magneto's shields are protecting him. He's opened with it against monsters in the Last Olympian where his sword "sucked their essence".

5. True but thats why he gets targeted first.

And he just teleports out of whatever attack you might have planned.

You mentioned all you would need is 2 seconds. That might have been true if you knew what you were up against, your characters had a solid tactician, flawless teamwork,and all your characters were blood lusted. But the fact is you don't have any of these things and you cant get them.

This entire statement is wrong. I don't need any of that to beat your team. And I actually have a number of tacticians.... Bruce Banner, Magneto, Martin Stein....

The moment this fight starts the bomb explodes killing Nico, Deathstroke and mags. Instantly after my team warps in and depowers and dispatches Firestorm, and then shrinks or BFRs Hulk. My team needs less than a second to completely deal with your team. All the members on my team are more than capable of accomplishing this especially thanks to the Midnighter. With 2 days of prep to plan this out and with the tactical minds that my team has the execution of my plan like this will be flawless and thanks again to the Midnighter I can force this outcome every single time.

ALSO you STILL haven't given me answers to these points!

• Hulk not be a rage monster and murder your team. already rebutted this.
• Nico to survive Hulks onslaught and convince your team to work together through fear. He doesn't have to.
• Magneto to be effected by Nico. He doesn't have to be affected
• Be able to deal with my Depower guns. shields
• Be able to survive Anti-energy and Bio bombs. shields
• Know who it is that your up against beforehand. precog
• Be able to deal with the Midnighter's Battle Computer. attack from all sides, too many numbers will overwhelm you.
• Survive being BFRed out of comics and into the book of Moby Dick or to a dimension where Cthulhu and the old gods reign supreme. Your characters have to beat me by their own merits. BFR to Moby Dick doesn't incapacitate, KO, or kill me.
• Not get taged by Bullseye (keeping mind you have no way of knowing he is even there in the first place.). Shields and precog
• have more than 15 minutes for prep. Don't need it.

I promise I know what I am doing. If I didnt I would not have made it this far. I have addressed or countered everything you said and you have yet to do the same with me but yet you continue to take jabs at my knowledge(last I checked that was against the rules. Im sure your aware of that becuase your the one that made them). My team will win this without any loss of life on my side. The battle will be over in a second with my team the victor.

If you don't want me to take jabs, stop talking about Nico like you know him. I hope you know that I truly mean no harm and this is all in the spirit of debating. I debate IRL and at tournaments, you have to be a little harsh so I'm sorry if some of that rubbed off here. I promise I'll be nice after this match is over, regardless of who won.

And you're talking about the rules, when you have a sentient book that is capable of reality warping, mass possession, and raising the dead, and you bought this for the points of a street leveller??????

Your team dies a horrible death.

My team is doing all of that and more. My team has perfect teamwork and knows everything about eachother before the battle even starts. They wont trip over each-others attacks and can synchronize and counter all of what your team can dish out.

Okay I am not spouting off things that I dont know what I am talking about and for the record Guy did lose his sh*t and start murdering. He tore off the arm of a mother looking for her children and shoved it down her throat...

Ok? I didn't say anything about your teamwork.

Yes, Guy did, but Guy hasn't been controlling his rage all his life like Banner or Hulk. I believe I'd successfully refuted all your teamwork and prep questions. Now, let's get on to other things.

The Hulk is settled but not my prep.

Let's stop this BS about Firestorm not being able to transmute living creatures, shall we?.

Please research characters before talking about them like you're an expert.

As I said earlier I was unaware that you were using Jason.

It is not counter prep and is most certianly allowed. My team knows full well everything about your team so they would conduct there prep from within the negative zone. Also I would love to see scans of Firestorms precog about beings that are in another dimension. He wont have any way of telling what will be coming.

1. Is there a portal to the negative zone in Stark Tower?
2. Has Reed ever conducted prep in the negative zone? Has anyone on your team, for that matter? And don't bring up that instance with Annihilus and the Avengers, because they were trapped there during that storyline.
3. I showed you precog, literally in my first post. Flashes of foresight that he can show to other people. Magneto sees BP and Reed, Firestorm sees Batman.

1. Probably, but that doesn't matter as Reed always has that device on his person and in his helmet.

2. He literally has a base there where he was planing on taking over the earth. He even got the denizens to work for him. He was defeated and drifted in the nothingness of the Zone but somehow over time rebuilt and did it again.

3. They are just flashes of what will come not a play by play like the Midnighter has. Even if he saw my team he doesn't know who Reed is or what any of his devices do. Mag's wont be able to help due to my team being in the negative zone.

Also, the Firestorm matrix is sort of another dimension in and of itself. In Forever Evil it was used as a prison to house the Justice League.

Summoning constructs, and raising an army of dead, attack an unkown enemy from all diferent angles, haveing Nico and Firestorm act out of character... That my friend is what we call a plan. Perhaps but they are still clashing.

Uh, how are they acting out of character? The scan above and the Black Lantern Ronnie scan show that there are versions of Firestorm willing to kill. And I'm using Composite Firestorm, allowing me to take the best out of different versions of him. Thus, he'll be willing to kill. Clashing or not, they'll work together.

They are unaware of who it is they are up against. How could your team in just 15 minutes decide to take such drastic measures against an unknown enemy?

Ah thats a wonderfully cheeky way to bend the rules. I am not going to push this any further other than I think that is silly considering you didn't pay for a Firestorm that has all the powers of a white and black lantern. Regardless of this Firestorm is in character and he wouldnt simply just kill my team. Thats not his style he avoids killing whenever possiable. Normal Firestorm wouldnt even be able to harm organinc life without dealing with the feedback. He also would not absorb Deathstroke into himself.

All of your characters are in character.

We had literally 4 days to question each others' characters. Firestorm was not brought up, and I explicitly specified that I would use all versions. If you thought that unfair, you should have voted on it then. Jason's gotten pretty dark in the past... just see the above scan to wreck your entire statement.

This is my first time on comic vine and until this post i didn't even know what composite meant. :p It matters not in the grand scheme of things as you shall see.

Again, I don't care about Deathstroke. I just wanted him for his armor, which, by the way, is Nth Metal, meaning it's immune to magic.

Okay works for me.

Seeing as how you've edited your prep countless times in this debate, I'm going to do the same. Magneto and Firestorm realize that we have a weakness to magic, so Firestorm analyzes and reproduces Deathstroke's Nth Metal Armor while coating it with anti-magic bubbles as shown in Fury of Firestorm #4 when he trapped Zatanna in an anti-magic bubble. So there go all your magic arguments!

Firestorm for one wouldnt even think of that especially when he doesn't even know what the Necronomicon is. Even if he saw it in his prep which is unlikely as Ash always tucked away he would have no way of telling it apart from any other book. Its a great feat for sure but without prior knowledge of what my team is capable of and has done in the past Firestorm would not make the armor. He is much more likely to make constructs similar to what you saying earlier such as dragons or other beings to help you fight.

Apparently you don't know Ultimate Reed. Ultimate Reed is not even human. He is the arguably the smartest being in both the Marvel and DC universes. He has a perfect memory and doesn't forget anything that he has absorbed. When he was in dooms body instead of rushing back to help the rest of the F4 he stayed and read and memorized all of dooms books on magic. When he returned he was able to use summoning spells and necrotize flesh without even uttering the spell words. He also used magic to ruin Diablo's Transmutation and defeat him. Also your thing about not getting it right the first time is ridiculous. Reed on his first try made a gun that made a big bang in an empty universe (he made that device in one day on an alien planet using what he had on his ship.), The Depower gun's first test was that of the scans I showed above, The Anti-matter bombs first test blew up North America. Reed and BP will have no problem using the Necronomicon to its fullest potential.

You're absolutely correct, I don't know Ultimate Reed, and unlike you, I'm fine with admitting it. Perfect memory is a no-limit fallacy. Making devices, and using equipment are two different things. You're basically saying that because his gadgets have worked the first time, he'll be able to master the material of a reality-warping book in 15 minutes. I'm just not seeing it.

Well first off i'm not even using the reality warping capabilities and second Reed's perfect memory is a core part of his character. Besides not being alive he has evolved himself over 1000 years and he truely has no intellectual equal. Your right and that's the point Reeds intellect has no limits. He showed no problems using the magic in the past as seen by the scan I posted Him along with BP will have no trouble using the Necronomicon

I don't understand whats so hard to see here, If it worked before in much more difficult circumstances it will work again in this case when he has all of the information available to him.

Also, Reed and BP are heroes. All of my characters are either antiheroes or superheroes that aren't afraid to go dark. Batman, for one, would have a huge problem with Reed trying to kill us at all. Perfect teamwork is cool, but it doesn't change the fact that Batman opposes killing whenever possible. At the very least he'll try to convince your team to not kill which will take up most of your prep.

Reed is a crazy super villan. After Ultimateum he went off the rails. He even killed doom and replaced him, Killed Odin (with the depower gun), oh yea and he BLEW UP AMERICA.

BP has no problems with killing people and even went so far as to stop Tony Starks heart in an attempt to kill him. He also recently just about blew up a planet before Namor did it for him.

Batman is overruled in his concerns by the bulk of my team haveing no problem with killing and due to perfect teamwork there is no fighting against each other with tactics. My team still has full knowledge and knowing that Bats would know that there is no way to beat your team without killing. He did try to kill Darksied in a similar situation. There is no problems with anyone on my team killing thanks to the teamwork and knowledge.

Here we see Reed using dark magic in Doom's body. Note that just because he is in Doom's body does not mean he would already be able to use magic. This is evidenced by Doom in Reeds body using magic.

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I could be), but I believe that the most recent incarnation of Ultimate Reed was back in his body. Did he ever use magic after returning to his own body? If he didn't, then he can't. It's possible that Doom's mind and Doom's body could use magic, but if neither are present then Reed cannot.

Well that isn't true at all. Other than Doom's armor his body possess no magic and none of it offensive. He is able to use magic because he stoped what he was doing and took the time to read all of the books in Doom's library. He did use magic afterwords to stop one of Diablo's transmutations as well as piece back together The Thing who got broken down by Diablo's magic. Reed will have no problem using magic.

Anyway, all your magic is useless because of Nth Metal.

As I said earlier Firestorm will not do that unless provoked. Also the armor doesn't stop you from being BFRed via portals.

No it will not. Magneto's sheilds aren't even capable of withstanding a nuclear blast as evidenced when he was killed at his moon base in the Punisher Kills series. He first would have to survive an Anti-matter bomb and then stand up to the depower gun. Mag's shields are not strong enough to withstand an Anti-Matter bomb the scan below will show the blast. Also to say that the depower gun wouldn't get through his shields is ridiculous It got through to and depowered Franklin Richards who had the Phoenix Force. Franklin Defeated 3 celestials by himself casually tanking there attacks. He also tanked the full might of Galactus and Reurected him as one of his heralds. There is no way Mag's shields even come close to that much power. The Franklin in these scans didn't even have the Phoenix force.

Magneto's shields... can't stand up to a nuke????

That's the shields standing up to TWO nukes. And it also stood up to the Jean Grey Phoenix, much more powerful than the Ultimate Franklin Richards Phoenix (unless, of course, you can show me feat that stands up to universe busting, I'll get you the scan if you'd like).

Simply stating what has happened in the past If you would like I also have definitive other counters to his shields. Here take a look.

Gallery

Iron man using that suit was able to pull a real win against Mag's and my team has that suit. BP was able to beat Mag's with prep useing a scrambler, Colossus defied his powers and punched him, Doom made him kneel and was going to kill him with his own powers but spared him (due to complete knowledge of mags Reed would know how to duplicate this), Forcefeilds are enough to negate his magnetic influence, BP's suit protects him from the blood rip, Thor has sucked away his force feild, and BP has been able to cut through many force fields including Ultrons and Iron man's. The depower gun is more than enough here but even if it isnt there are still many other ways to dispatch him.

You're trying to lowball characters and that's just something that isn't taken seriously here on CV. For example I can say, Thanos was beaten by cops, or Silver Surfer was defeated by Thor, but either of those characters are still far above a Superman level being.

The scans above are not lowballing. (also not breaking the scan rule because no more than 3 per comic. if not I will alter them)

No what I said was that from his first idea of it to its completion took 2 days. He isn't reinventing here and he has a better lab at his disposal than the one he came up with it in. It would not take him more than an hour to recreate a handheld device where literally no thinking or brainstorming is required all he needs to do is put it together. It took him over a week to figure out how to make the bomb but once he figured it out it was stated that he made each one in only an hour each. The fact that you are a robotics student means nothing and your point is invalid. Reed doesn't have to reinvent anything this time around. He already knows how to make it. When he made it he had no idea how it would be put together or even if it would work and he made it in 2 days. Inventing something takes much more time than recreating something.

A better lab does not necessarily mean it will be faster.... and say what you want, the fact is that he's made a de-power gun once, and it took 2 days. Look, if I try to build a computer with all the necessary parts, it will take me quite a while the first time, but the second time it will take me less. However, if I try to build an iPhone from scratch? It's going to take me forever connecting all the little transistors in it, even if I have done it before. Even if it did take less time, we don't know how much less, and saying he could build it in an hour is purely speculation.

That my friend is lowballing Reed! He knows how to make it and he has so much at his disposal. Also since he is at start tower he would have enough power via the arc reactor to power his Hard Light Constructs to aid him further (he did not have this when he made the gun. They cant function without an absurd amount of power and that's why they wont be helpful for the fight.). My whole team knows everything about you and how to beat you. it took him 2 days to invent the gun to rebuild it with everything he has now (that includes Tony's help) will take much less time. This is evidenced in the time it took him to develop the Anti-matter bomb and how long it takes him to produce one. Making stuff is what Reed does and he does it better than anyone.

No attacking from different angles does not help you. The Midnighter has fought with multiple red lanterns as well as Atrocitus. Keep in mind that base Midnighter cant fly and has marginally high super strength. He is amped in this situation because of the perfect teamwork and full knowledge. There will be nothing that surprise him and it will not help you any. All it will do is allow my team to pick off you members individually.

Atrocitus is not World Breaker Hulk. Perfect teamwork and full knowledge is not an amp of any kind... lol

Atrocitus Is the leader of the Red Lanterns Hulk while powerful will not start on his level of control or power over the red ring. Perfect teamwork and full knowledge is a huge amp for my team. My team is composed of prep-masters.

He might not be surprised, but he can't fend off 4 powerhouses simultaneously attacking him with a variety of attacks.

Nico and Mags don't survive that long besides that how will the surround the crater that used to be our battleground. My team chooses where they warp into the battle so surrounding us is not an option.

Countering the Phases again.

The scan of Firestorm is impressive however as I said he is the first to be taken down due to his power and my teams knowledge of him. This would also take him some time to retrieve hulk.

Reed has a mastery of all known sciences. He used Hanks tech to enlarge the Hulk to a huge size to help him fight. That lets us know that it already works on hulk and that the reverse can be done to him as well.

here is proof of both.

Gallery

2. That they would do that, considering they'd be defending against 6 attacks at once (Firestorm, Nico, Mags, Hulk, dragons, army of the dead)

Nico, Mags, Dragons, and army of the dead are all removed by the bomb. Also the Necronomicon is more than capable of taking the dragons and the army. It is a sentient book after all and I do have perfect teamwork so it would be more than willing to fill in the non existent gaps in Reeds knowledge.

Okay, so how is Firestorm going to put down? You know he can absorb energy, having absorbed the energy of 2 nuclear reactors in one of his solo issues before? Why couldn't he absorb the bomb and redirect it against you. Also, the bomb scans are not impressive, they didn't rip through any shielding whatsoever whereas here they will have to.

Its an Anti-matter bomb. There is nothing to absorb. Everyone on bolth teams is composed of matter. Anti-matter completely destroys matter. The blast removes all the laws of physics by literally destroying matter( that cant be done normally because matter usually only changes states.) It would rip apart any magnetic feilds as it destroyes the North American continent. That blast killed everyone in in its radius. The weapon is so far even beyond scorched earth and Mag's sheilds are not that strong. Before you say he tanked a blast from Galactus let me remind you of the scans above and that he blast fired at him was less than a slap of the wrist. That blast still put down Mag's for a few pages. Franklin tanked 3 celestials as well as Galactus giving him his best but it wasn't enough to breach his shields and yet the depower gun made short work of him.

The book is sentient?!?!?! So you essentially paid for another character. Would it be OK if I said Composite Firestorm includes a Justice League communicator and called up the JLA? No, it wouldn't. You're just breaking the rules if it's sentient.

No its not Ash has never been able to work with the book and its just an item that he keeps with him its not some outside force. Since I have Reed, BP, and perfect teamwork it would work just fine. That does not break the rules as it is only synergy.

Pertaining to the winning conditions if Hulk was sent to the microverse and couldnt come back that would clasify as a win. Besides that he can be BFRed via the Necronomicon or by Reed shooting him into the Negative Zone

Thanks to the Midnighters precog I would know exactly where he was and what to do. Midnighter himself has tangoed with Atrocitus and killed his share of Red Lanterns. Hulk wont even be able to hit my team before he is dealt with.

You want to react to Hulk? Nico ghostifies you from behind. You want to react to Nico? Magneto kills you with the iron-blood trick. You want to react to Mags? Firestorm turns you into cement. You want to react to FS? Hulk one shots you. All any of my characters need is about two seconds to kill your entire team.

Well first off what you are saying is out of character for most of your guys. Nico has only ever done that once as a very last resort, Magneto never opens with that and my team is protected with Ironman suits and flight rings, Frirestorm would never do that! he is in character haveing the feats of a black lantern doesnt mean hes going to suddenly drop his morals and use those feats. All of the things that you mentioned require very intrace planing and percision on the part of your team. You only have 15 minutes and have no knowledge of my team you simply cant pull what your saying off in 15 minutes without any prior knowledge and a great team leader or tactician (deathstroke doesnt help because he doesnt know who anyone on my team is or what they are capable of except for Batman, and the Midnighter.)

Magneto's opened with it before..... several times actually on Wolverine, Cable etc.... also once against Cannonball and Storm he opened by using iron in blood to physically control them.

It doesnt work on the newer Iron Man suits, It doesnt work on Reed, It doesnt work on BP, and it doesn't work on B5 because of his force fields.

Nico's done it many times.... against Bryce, against Daedalus, against monsters where he drained their souls using his sword...

I will admit that I am at a loss when it comes to this character but from what I looked up he only uses that as a last resort. Regardless of that he wont survive the blast.

Firestorm could open with it.... he knows how good Batman is. He's transmuted people before, many times...

Thats assuming he even gets to see my team with his precog.

How is it intricate? I'm just attacking you! Also, just saying, Magneto is most definitely a tactical genius.

Magneto as of late has been playing second fiddle in terms of team leading but i guess that doesn't matter because he is composite.

Secondly there is now way Mag's or Nico survive the bomb!

It's called "shields"

As i showed above his shields are not invincible and then can be dealt with quite easily. You must also take into account that the blast will catch him as a surprise; he wont be able to brace for it.

Nico

He's banished peoples' souls multiple times, actually. It's not his go to move but if Magneto tells him how good your team is? He'll do it. Also, Brainiac 5 is a Coluan, lol. He does have a soul. He's not a robot. Reed I don't know about, but if he's alive then he has a soul.

If thats true than prove it. I have only ever seen it happen one time. Mag's has no way to tell how good my team is nor does Firestorm. True I forgot about that. Reed Is not alive Reed died in the accident and was replaced by bacteria stacks. He has no organs or blood and does not require food or air. The real Reed died long ago and has already passed on. Reed is just a bunch of bacteria Nico wont be able to harm him.

You've never read Percy Jackson. He did it in Last Olympian against monsters where he sucked their souls out with his sword to make them stay in Tartarus for longer, also against Bryce in Blood of Olympus, and against Daedalus in Battle of Labyrinth (granted Daedalus was a special case). Bacteria are living creatures and thus they have souls.

True I have not read it. Don't be ridiculous bacteria do not have souls. Only sentient humanoid creatures have souls. You cant even really debate this without it turning into a religious argument.

Also there is no way Nico survives the blast.

Magneto's shields.

I have several ways to dispatch them as listed above.

Magneto

Childish? Says the person that said Magneto and Hulk were mortal enemies, that Brainiac 5 was a total expert on Firestorm, that Brainiac 5 does the anti-matter bomb in character, that the purpose of the red lantern ring is to go crazy.

Now you are twisting my words I did not say Magneto and Hulk were mortal enemies all I said is that he knows who he is and that he likely hates him because of the awful stuff he has done. Braniniac 5 is a total expert on Firestorm he spent many years studying all of the great heros of the past as well as having all of the knowledge of all the Brainiacs that came before him. So yes B5 does know about Firestorm. Using the bomb is made in character by the perfect teamwork that my team possess there is no disagreeing of morals on my team and he would most certainly use it due to that. My point with the Red Lantern ring was that as I have previously stated as soon as you put it on the wearer looses control of themselves. I already refuted the examples that you produced.

Uh.... all of your team has morals, lol.... they're all superheroes. Batman never kills, Brainiac doesn't kill, don't know about Ultimate Reed, Midnighter is a mercenary, T'Challa tries not to kill when he can avoid it.

Batman is the only one here who has problems with killing and as previously stated it wont matter due to perfect teamwork and both B5 and Bats knowing what needs to be done. Reed is a supervillan and T'Challa has been getting rather shifty with his morals as of late.

When has any Brainiac encountered Firestorm?

He has studied all of the Justice League from the future. Unless you insisting that Firestorm isn't in any history books then B5 would know of him.

It doesnt matter whether or not they have

The blood rip has happened like what 2 times since he has been a character? Without him having prep and some kind of team leader with teamwork he would not open with that move.

Blood control/rip has happened many, many times. Magneto is a highly capable leader himself... he literally managed a (sort of) country in Genosha.

Blood Rip doesn't work on BP or any of the newer Iron Man suits. It also doesmt work on anyone with a personal forcefeild.

Besides that he is unable to survive the blast of the bomb.

SHIELDS

Anti-matter will destroy his shields simply because of what it does. His shields have only held out against matter based energy attacks. I also have several other ways to deal with him besides the more than capable depower gun ( it killed and depowered the Odin force in a head on fight, Depowered and destroyed the Phoenix force as well as Franklin Richards.)

Firestorm

Black Lantern firestorm names himself Deathstorm in Brightest Day. Thats his name. He didn't have one in blackest night but it was still him. In that scan was Deathstorm. I was under the impression that you were using Ronnie and not Jason. Besides that it is out of character for him to kill people! I do know what I am talking about and I own all of Blackest Night and Brightest Day.

I'm using Composite. Not out of character, just see the scan above. Jason is pretty nasty sometimes.

Agreed I was unaware of this until this post. Hell I didn't know what Composite meant :p

All of that still will not save him form being depowered instantly. If Jason can lose to Lex and the Joker with prep( see i can use Google :D) then Reed with complete knowledge is more than enough for him. Especially since he has no way of being able to prepare what is going to happen to him.

The only reason Lex and Joker were able to do that is because Martin Stein published a huge paper on Firestorm and how he could be neutralized. And also, they caught him by surprise. He has a way to prepare and it's called precog.

His precog is not as powerful as you are suggesting. If it was then how did Lex and Joker get to capture him? Reed and my team know more about Firestorm that Lex ever did. He will be caught off guard here and the end result will be his death.

You have to remember that your characters are in character and mine are not.

What? Yes they are. Perfect Teamwork doesn't mean morals off.

Due to the perfect teamwork and complete knowledge the member on my team who don't kill Bats and B5 would know what must be done to win this battle and would carry it out. They would also go along with the rest of me team because they have perfect teamwork.

Necronomicon

It is capable of reality warping but it doesn't mean it has to be used. It was only ever achieved by Freddy Kruger who is already a reality warper. Firestorm can do many of the same things the book is capable of. I don't need any of its reality warping capabilities. Also thats not one of the listed rules anyhow and that was one of the listed perks that you had to pay points for. I remember because I ran into the same problem when I was facing Jacthripper and he had purchased it.

Final Other Stuff

The bomb can be made and is easy to do so. I wasnt even considering useing B5s version as its overkill. Reeds Anti-matter Bomb only take one hour to make and it is in character for my team. Hell with perfect teamwork I could do a sacrifice of blood and bone and kill off Ash and Bats. With perfect teamwork they would be willing to do whatever was necessary.

Reed's anti-matter bomb.... has never ripped through a shield of any kind, much less Magneto's. Perfect teamwork does not mean morals off. It would mean morals majority. So, let's do a head count.

Reed's Anti-mattter bomb destroys matter completely; defying the laws of physics in a localized area. The explosion is massive and more than enough to deal with Mag's especially when he isn't aware that the bomb is coming.

No killing at all: Bruce, B5

Strong dislike for killing: Reed, T'Challa

Killing is OK: Bullseye, Midnighter

Let me fix this for you.

No killing: Batman

Strong dislike: B5

Inbetween these 2:Black Panther (he stopped Tony's heart, Nearly blew up a planet, tried to kill Namor, etc)

Killing is Okay: Reed (super villain), Bullseye, Midnighter, Ash Williams

The scales are tipped into my favor and most importantly Reed is EVIL.

So that means morals majority would be strong dislike for killing! So it's not morals off at all.

As i just explained that is incorrect 4 members of my team have no problem killing and BP has no problem doing it if it is necessary. Leaving bats and B5 who both have Cannon showings of at least trying to kill someone when they have been pushed too far. Let me do the math here 5 vs 2... the majority is for killing.

Magneetos shields are not strong enough to withstand the blast of the bomb. I remind you that Wolverine also tanked a blast from her and was fine. There is no way wolverine could tank a blast from 3 Celestials (Franklin's shields tanked this but were still not enough to stop Reed and his gun even though he was even more amped with the Phoenix Force,)just as there in no way that mags could either. His shields were breached by a nuke on the moon and he died. This bomb is thousands of times more destructive than that of the one that killed him.

Lowballing and ABC logic are frowned upon. You know Magneto's shields have also taken offhanded blasts from Galactus?

An offhand blast and a charged up angry blast are VERY different things.

Do you realize how dumb ABC logic is? Let's go through a sample of ABC logic.

Wolverine has defeated Hulk. Hulk has defeated Thor. Thor has defeated Silver Surfer. So could Wolverine stand a chance against Surfer? Not a chance.

That's the same logic you're applying, and it's horrible logic. Also, in the scan you posted it seemed as if Franklin was caught off guard by Reed, and didn't have his shields up.

Now you're just lowballing. Composite Mags gives me composite feats, and here on the battles forum we don't lowball.

Perhaps but you are also lowballing Reed. ABC logic sure but allow me to correct that statement. Do you think Mags could withstand a full enraged blast from Galactus let alone 3 fully powered Celestials? And as I have showed in scans above there are numerous showings of his shields and magnetic powers failing him.

How would he know what he is up against? Thats simply not possible.

It's called Precog, buddy.

His Precog is at best inconsistent where mine has never failed and is not a frame by frame play through of the events like the Midnighters is.

1. Reed can't make anything you say he can in the allotted time... the depower gun alone takes all of his prep time.
2. All your characters have street level durability, easily one shotted by a super amped WB Hulk. All he has to do is stomp in your direction, and you're dead.
3. All your characters have metal on or in their bodies, meaning Magneto can one shot them.
4. No defense for ghostification
5. No defense for transmutation

1. Yes he can and quite easily. The depower gun does not take up anywhere near the full time.

He's never made the depower gun in less than 2 days. So he can't. See example above.

Yes he can he isn't reinventing the gun and he has much more tools as well as Tony's brain to speed along the process. See example above. Here reed can stretch himself into 5 other copies of himself to work faster on projects. Also note how he has an active portal to the Negative Zone.

2. Reed,B5,BP all have above street level durability. I have already expressed 2 separate ways to defeat hulk.

Cool. Hulk still smashes them after Firestorm gets him out of the microverse.

Firestrom is the first to drop and you don't have a way to retrieve him via Necronomicon BFR. As soon as the bomb goes off and kill Mag's and Nico My team warp in behind him and depower and destroy the matrix and kill Firestorm. Also being invisible will not help him as Reed is able to target his wife when she goes invisible as well as the senors in Iron Man armor, BP, and B5.

3. No he cant. Also out of character and you have no prior knowlege

PRECOG. Not out of character at all, he does it all the time. Against security guards, against Wolverine, against Cable, you name it.

As I said your precog if it even works is only flashes and is not very helpful. What if all he sees is your whole team dead with my team nowhere to be found?

4. Nico dies in the bomb. Reed is immune, Ash is resistant, Very out of character for him to open with that move.

You must have missed the part where Magneto's shields are protecting him. He's opened with it against monsters in the Last Olympian where his sword "sucked their essence".

Nope I didnt miss anything perhaps on Mag's best day if he were able to prepare and brace himself and wasn't also trying to shield the rest of your team he could stand a chance. He doesnt stand a chance due to the nature of the bomb and because he cant prepare for it.

5. True but thats why he gets targeted first.

And he just teleports out of whatever attack you might have planned.

The bomb goes off and my team warps in instantly after and disposes of Firestorm. The Only thing his precog is going to show him is his own dead team.

You mentioned all you would need is 2 seconds. That might have been true if you knew what you were up against, your characters had a solid tactician, flawless teamwork,and all your characters were blood lusted. But the fact is you don't have any of these things and you cant get them.

PRECOG. SHIELDS. All my characters have opened with those moves before.

Your Precog is weak and your shields easy to dispose of. Doom, Iron Man, and BP made short work of Mag's with prep and Reed knows what he did and how to make it.

The moment this fight starts the bomb explodes killing Nico, Deathstroke and mags. Instantly after my team warps in and depowers and dispatches Firestorm, and then shrinks or BFRs Hulk. My team needs less than a second to completely deal with your team. All the members on my team are more than capable of accomplishing this especially thanks to the Midnighter. With 2 days of prep to plan this out and with the tactical minds that my team has the execution of my plan like this will be flawless and thanks again to the Midnighter I can force this outcome every single time.

ALSO you STILL havent given me answers to these points!

• Hulk not be a rage monster and murder your team. already rebutted this.
• Nico to survive Hulks onslaught and convince your team to work together through fear. He doesn't have to.
• Magneto to be effected by Nico. He doesn't have to be affected
• Be able to deal with my Depower guns. shields. shields are easily disposed of
  
• Be able to survive Anti-energy and Bio bombs. shields. shields are easily disposed of
  
• Know who it is that your up against beforehand. precog. His precog is only in flashes and all he will be able to see is his dead team.
  
• Be able to deal with the Midnighter's Battle Computer. attack from all sides, too many numbers will overwhelm you. It never has before and you dont know where my characters will warp in. Reed gets to chose that and has no problem seeing through dimensions.
  
• Survive being BFRed out of comics and into the book of Moby Dick or to a dimension where Cthulhu and the old gods reign supreme. Your characters have to beat me by their own merits. BFR to Moby Dick doesn't incapacitate, KO, or kill me. It gives me all the time I need to come back and dispose of you at my leisure. Also BFR to Cthulhu or into Trigon's captain crunch certainly sounds like a kill to me.
  
• Not get taged by Bullseye (keeping mind you have no way of knowing he is even there in the first place.). Shields and precog. Sheilds are disposed of any of the numerous ways I have listed above and precog doesn't matter against Bullseye with the Midnighters perfect precog.
• have more than 15 minutes for prep. Don't need it.Yes you really do.
  

I promise I know what I am doing. If I didnt I would not have made it this far. I have addressed or countered everything you said and you have yet to do the same with me but yet you continue to take jabs at my knowledge(last I checked that was against the rules. Im sure your aware of that because your the one that made them). My team will win this without any loss of life on my side. The battle will be over in a second with my team the victor.

If you don't want me to take jabs, stop talking about Nico like you know him. I hope you know that I truly mean no harm and this is all in the spirit of debating. I debate IRL and at tournaments, you have to be a little harsh so I'm sorry if some of that rubbed off here. I promise I'll be nice after this match is over, regardless of who won.

Sounds good. Im just not into the swing of things with this site. thanks.

Your team dies a horrible death.

Your team will perish and mine will prevail! :p