Sebastian Shaw vs. Superman

@randomsid: your the one ignoring buddy, ive said five time hit from a distance at which he can dodge the counter easily being ALL SHAW CAN DO IS COUNTER. one more time....not do nothing....but attack from a distance far enough to dig a crater shaw cant climb out of via heat vision there are alot of scenarios but all you got is hes gotta brawl with shaw, no..but hes gotta brawl with shaw ive stated stalemate numerous of times and jus recently stated a possible winning scenario twice and have got nothing. And yea youll be the first notch, and he said you lack the chops and dont know science.....thats nothing

@uncanny_cable: and once again, that is not in character for Superman, nor would it work. It wouldn't create a win for Superman in any way. And yeah, saying something is easy. I proved my point and all he did was make an idiotic statement. If all it took was saying something, there wouldn't be debates at all. And once again, agreeing to disagree in no way gives you a win in a debate.

Bump

@uncanny_cable: learn what BFR is, also supes has never displayed that so again go from what we've seen...

Better than you it seems, since you are still going on about these things as if it was a space ship.

First of all, Shaw does not have the strength to make any sort of impression on Superman if Superman never hits him. Secondly, he doesn not have the ability to turn his head, or the rest of his body 180 degrees around in his own suit, so no, he's not going to be shooting anything but the AOE either.

Which means he is going to fire blasts thats even weaker than initially thought, meaning even less of a chance of it actually doing anything.

That is what the primary effect of the World Engine, I am talking about the side effect it has on it's location; continiously pressing thousands of tons of water out of the way. And so what? Shaw doesn't have that kind of strength, and he's not getting the speed either, so Superman could just move out of the way and let him punch a wall.

Since we've established Shaw can't even hit him unless Superman allows it. Superman is just going to remain standing.

So you think Superman is some blockhead that can only ever solve problems one way? Is there any more stupid lowballing you want to fire at him or are we done?

@outside_85:

Better than you it seems, since you are still going on about these things as if it was a space ship.

Says the guy treating people like weather balloons. Also this law doesn't just apply to space ships................................

First of all, Shaw does not have the strength to make any sort of impression on Superman if Superman never hits him. Secondly, he doesn not have the ability to turn his head, or the rest of his body 180 degrees around in his own suit, so no, he's not going to be shooting anything but the AOE either.

They're in a city. Shaw can attack civilians. Superman would be forced to hit him.

Which means he is going to fire blasts thats even weaker than initially thought, meaning even less of a chance of it actually doing anything.

Not at close range. Plus it doesn't even have to be AoE but a blast.

That is what the primary effect of the World Engine, I am talking about the side effect it has on it's location; continiously pressing thousands of tons of water out of the way.

......................What does side effects have to do with anything? Superman was hit with the beam directly i.e. he only had his gravity increased.

And so what? Shaw doesn't have that kind of strength

He can augment his strength with energy.

and he's not getting the speed either

lol did you even see the scene? Faora wasn't even using her speed when he was KO'd. Nam-Ek casually kicked him then Faora hit him.

so Superman could just move out of the way and let him punch a wall.

Superman hasn't any impressive reaction feats.

Since we've established Shaw can't even hit him unless Superman allows it.

That was never established. You didn't even provide any evidence. You just declared it to be so lmao. Superman is fast in travel speed only. Show me some amazing reaction feats that would make him "untouchable" to Shaw. Go for it.

Superman is just going to remain standing.

In your mind, sure.

So you think Superman is some blockhead that can only ever solve problems one way?

idk man..................this seemed like him resorting to a one-way solution to me. /sarcasm

Is there any more stupid lowballing you want to fire at him or are we done?

I'm not sure how I even lowballed him but, ok.

No says the guy reminding you that you dont actually need to go 11m/s to get into space.

Because Shaw is now super fast as well? Who do you think he is? Zod?

Still: What effect do you actually think it has? Because you seem to be massively overestimating what he can do.

If you took a few moments to think about it, or just read what I actually wrote, you'd know.

Which he is getting from where?

Which is different because the Kryptonians are much faster than Shaw is or ever will be.

Do you have any feats of Shaw actually remaining conscious after getting hit in the head with something like a Kryptonian? Fact is that Superman is much faster, and as it often is with him, he more often than not simply takes punches if other people might be hurt if he stands aside.

When you bring up Shaws durability feats.

I've yet to see any compelling reason why he would be moved by anything Shaw has.

Yes because what else were you going to do with him? Drown him?

You are actively arguing that Shaw has a chance, thats pretty low. Whats your next trick, that his comicbook counterpart can take on the Sentry? Hulk? Gladiator?

@outside_85:

No says the guy reminding you that you dont actually need to go 11m/s to get into space.

For objects without sustained propulsion, yes you do. But you know better than actually physicists right?

Because Shaw is now super fast as well? Who do you think he is? Zod?

Yes because Zod was using superspeed to attack civilians lol.

What effect do you actually think it has? Because you seem to be massively overestimating what he can do.

Whatever energy he's stored from the fight lol. A Kryptonian took him out with a good punch. A couple punches thrown back at Supes from himself would KO him easily.

If you took a few moments to think about it, or just read what I actually wrote, you'd know.

The World Engine's beam increases gravity. Supes was hit by the beam and the beam alone. What it does as a side effect and not what it directly does to Superman is irrelevant.

Which he is getting from where?

........idk.........maybe the person he's fighting.....?

Which is different because the Kryptonians are much faster than Shaw is or ever will be.

Cool story. Show me speed feats that aren't travel speed for Superman.

Do you have any feats of Shaw actually remaining conscious after getting hit in the head with something like a Kryptonian?

..........................Shaw absorbed 95% of the energy from a nuclear reactor..............the energy a punch from Supes would make does not even come close to being on par with a nuke.

Fact is that Superman is much faster, and as it often is with him, he more often than not simply takes punches if other people might be hurt if he stands aside.

Cool. So you're not going to show me his amazing speed (that isn't travel) and just continue to make declarative statements with nothing to back them up? Very productive.

When you bring up Shaws durability feats.

.................what are you even referring to here? You should quote the point you're responding to. You have 10,000+ posts, I'm sure you know how.

I've yet to see any compelling reason why he would be moved by anything Shaw has.

You're basically saying Superman can't hurt himself.

Yes because what else were you going to do with him? Drown him?

Idk......according to you he doesn't "solve problems one way".

You are actively arguing that Shaw has a chance, thats pretty low.

If you say so bro.

Whats your next trick

What here is supposed to be a trick? o.O

that his comicbook counterpart can take on the Sentry? Hulk? Gladiator?

Not sure what this has to do with anything but, ok.

Its equivalent of supes bull rushing an opponanant out of the city, into the mountains, and continuing the battle there, it not BRF because the battle ground has meerly changed from the city to the mountains, and never actually stopped.

Actually, it is the very definition of BFR. The battle field is a small city, not the ocean.

Okay then he can just chuck him into the deep end of a swimming pool somewhere in the city, their isnt any proof that shaw know show to swim.

Really? Reaching much? I have a hard time believing a person that could not swim would spend most of his time on yachts and subs.

Actually even in real life there are countless sailors in the army who do not know how to swim, in fact way back at pearl harber many soldiers on the blown up ships died because they didnt know who to swim. So while it seems odd for someone who doeasnt know how to swim to hang around water......its a common thing honestly.

Swimming is not as common a skill as most folk seem to think.

Maybe, but I highly doubt he would be brought down by something so simple, even if he couldn't swim, nothing stopping him from simply climbing out. Even without a ladder, with the kinetic energy that he starts the fight, plus the kinetic energy gained from Superman grabbing and throwing him and the energy from hitting the water he would have no trouble punching into the walls of the pool and climbing out.

@randomsid: brawling with kryptonians is preset behavior, shaw is something hes never encountered in the movie which makes it newly discovered land, and in my eyes if its not a strategy that calls for prior knowledge, prep, of genius intelligence....its happening wuit lying to yourself, and I didnt say it was good dabating I said it wasnt enough for a flag and to be crying about

@killerwasp: I could see the crater thing as reach but lets not act like I havent stated stalemate several times now, and I know wat bfr he wasnt removed from the battle field, jus a unpopulated part of it, start reading stop skimming

Actually, can the OP user specify what exactly is in the city?

@outside_85: god bless you because sandbagging and lowballing is all one of these guys is doing like

@blackkaizer: hes got a point if we are going by feats lol

@randomsid: )@blackkaizer: )

Somebody Google if Kevin Bacon knows how to swim or not. That'll end the discussion.

Anyway. Just my 50 cents. This ends in a stalemate or Superman VIA bfr due to transportation speed.

@randomsid: this is exactly was youve been doing to me, zero policy on speculation, only feats, "if superman hasnt fought without brawling...he must brawl wit shaw" same here bucko, shaw hasnt established he can swim...then he cant swim, no speculation

@jagernutt: just googled, can dance cant swim XD

@uncanny_cable:

Then stalemate or Superman.

@jagernutt: sadly no bfr, this was a setup that went stale on the shaw side

@uncanny_cable:

Then they could just endlessly keep fighting.

@jagernutt: randomsid "no superman has to brawl with shaw its wat he did in the movie hes doing it here, try again" :/ it all hes said

@uncanny_cable: he's also tackled, and lifted people up in his fights which is why I said that supes could drop him into the deep end of a pool......

@uncanny_cable: I don't need to read, the problem is what you just stated then, so lets not try to turn this on me. It's simple supes is gonna do what we saw, which is not enough to put Shaw down. If you claimed stalemate in the past fair enough, but that wasn't your current statement or the one i saw, and you wouldn't still be arguing here in this thread on that topic.

All wrong...

1. There no sailors in the army
2. In Navy basic training you have to no have to tread for at least 5 mins and jump off a 15 ft platform into a pool and swim 50 meters. Doesn't matter what style you do you have to just make it (I passed via back stroke). If you don't pass you get sent back a week until you do.

SN: People are still overestimating MoS Supes combat speed.

His form is horrible but it looks like he can swim lmao xD

@killerwasp: if were not gonna speculate on wat could happen based on the to characters established skill sets, and base this solely of of feats then its redundant, you should call a stalemate instead of acknowledging that I did, and you do have to read moving shaw to a less populated part of THE BATTLE FIELD is not bfr

@uncanny_cable: Im seriously not gonna argue this matter any more, it was clear as day when you said this,

your the one ignoring buddy, ive said five time hit from a distance at which he can dodge the counter easily being ALL SHAW CAN DO IS COUNTER. one more time....not do nothing....but attack from a distance far enough to dig a crater shaw cant climb out of via heat vision there are alot of scenarios but all you got is hes gotta brawl with shaw, no..but hes gotta brawl with shaw ive stated stalemate numerous of times and jus recently stated a possible winning scenario twice and have got nothing. And yea youll be the first notch, and he said you lack the chops and dont know science.....thats nothing

A thing superman hasn't done nor he would do. That's what I'm trying to say, we can take a few educated guesses like him ramming shaw again and or heck even snapping his neck like usual, but to do these things or at least doing this is not something we've seen him do.

First, I never said that, I said that is what he does in character. If you are going to fake quote someone get it right. Second, there is a MAJOR difference in changing the way a character fights completely and assuming a character that spends most of their time on yachts or subs, and even has a scene next to a pool can swim. What you are doing is taking a character and assuming what you would do with that characters powers when the OP CLEARLY states in character. You, are showing a distinct lack of debating skill and do not know how to distance yourself from the character you clearly love so much and base it on what he can do in the comics rather than what he has shown to do in the movie. Even in the comics where he has fought characters with absorbing abilities he brawls 90% of the time. So you aren't even really doing that, you are simply taking the character and using his abilities in ways that he almost never shows in any medium. Grow up, learn how to debate, or go away and don't tag me again.

@killerwasp: I REPEAT-if were not gonna speculate on wat could happen based on the to characters established skill sets, and base this solely of of feats then its redundant, S-T-A-L-E-M-A-T-E, LET IT GO, ive dropped that scenario two responses ago

@uncanny_cable: Let go of what? You need to chill down, like seriously. All i said was i was responding to your last statement, its not my fault you changed it, not everyone keeps up with YOUR NEWS. I said i didnt wanna argue anymore so u kept going, now stop

@randomsid: you the cupcake crying and flagging people cuz you emotional, first these scenarios are all out of character is all you say and WE DONT KNOW WAT SUPES WOULD DO FIGHTING A MAN WHO DOESN'T FEEL, OR MOVE WHEN YOU HIT HIM, BECAUSE IN THE MOVIE THERE WAS NO CHARCTER THAT HAD IMMUNITY TO PHYSICAL FORCE THAT SUPES FOUGHT SO WHAT SPECULATING ANY WONT FIT HIS CHARACTER, and now your bring up wat happens in the comics lmao your a joke quit cryiing and flagging people man up cupcake your acting like diva

@killerwasp: I would hope the people responding do because thats a part of staying INFORMED, which is at least like the 5th most imost important this in I guess"arguing" as you call it, I call it debating. Chill? Im watchin "Wet Hot American Summer: First Day Of Camp" having a good ol day lol and you stop, this is all cuz your sensitive and was to lazy to read lmao crazy

@uncanny_cable: Nice excuse, your other post says otherwise. No it's arguing because the topic of debate has already went by us. I'm not sensitive either, please do point out where I was being sensitive, I'd love to hear what you have to say, My point is idk why you new guys come in here guns blazing feeling like you have to make your mark, just chill and enjoy the site.

Well if the OP specifically says "IN character" then thats what you have to go with. In character all MoS Superman did was bull rush, punch and occasional heat vision. You do realize a debate based purely on speculation won't go anywhere right? I could speculate that Clark could trip at high speeds hitting Shaw giving him enough energy to ko Clark. See how bad speculations can turn out?

@killerwasp: jus cuz im a new jack im suppose to roll over cuz you dont read, right tellin people to chill "seriously", "now stop" foreal your sweet, and the reason we was still "debating" was cuz you didnt read.....now stop....;) lol ill still follow you tho if ya topics are coo, thats how chill I really am

@uugieboogie: first please be cool, please cuz a certain someones acting like im hulk right so, first id like to say nice to meet you too, and saying wat mos supes would do to anyone other than the characters in the movie....is speculation, based off that I find the battle redundant and a stalemate, he would punch shaw that first time in an attempt to brawl, yall are right but after that wat an mos supes would do to a guy he absolutely did nothing to is speculation, and im not being rude

@uncanny_cable:

jus cuz im a new jack im suppose to roll over cuz you dont read

You confuse reading with caring, as I said I'm not gonna go back in the past with this thread to try and figure out what the argument is about, I read within the last eh few texts and then move on. I've stated this before, which is why I'm stating it again. What? That's the problem you think its rolling over, or some submission tactic. It's not, its just a simple debate and or argument within a thread thats it.

right tellin people to chill "seriously", "now stop" foreal your sweet

Seriously is implied you should really consider it and be a more serious level than a sarcastic one, due to text lacking the behavior and facial expressions as one might give so that is why i said "seriously".

As for stop now, because its gonna get out of hand and make both of us look like clowns, do you want that? I don't, and I'm sure you don't either.

and the reason we was still "debating" was cuz you didnt read.....now stop....;)

We've covered this.

lol ill still follow you tho if ya topics are coo, thats how chill I really am

To be butt hurt over the first initial engagement of a conversation or debate would be quite sad.

First off, I flag people that decide that rather than being mature and debating based on what they know about the characters in question they feel the need to sling insults(which IS against the rules, plain and simple). If they don't want to get flagged then they can grow up and debate maturely. Second, just because I flag you, or anyone else for slinging insults doesn't mean a thing about me, usually I'm either laughing or shaking my head because they had to go down that path rather than actually debating. the first thing you learn about debating is that slinging insults, getting emotional, is pretty much an automatic loss. I'd prefer they get better at debating and learn how to do it without the personal attacks, but some people never will mature.

@killerwasp: ok so I guess still debating cuz you didnt care to fully read, cool I dont mind but when called upon I will adress it, and I took be told to stop as a tactic to roll over and I wasnt because we debating, its not like one of us is gonna go home bloody, I dont thunk we look like fools, It was eccited.....for the most part. And cool cuz for the most part its all in good fun

@randomsid: I dont know if your be around the bush and talking about me but I was insulted a few times and I jus roll with it and yea I know the rules I jus feel like wat you flagged that guy for was kind of critical I think if we all talked to eachother like buddies, we could all be buddies

When you accuse someone of knowing nothing about a subject when they have clearly shown they know what they are talking about, it is insulting. Sorry, but I see no reason to be insulting when you are having a debate. It's not that it "hurts me, or that I get upset", it's simply immature and should not be fostered. And I'm not saying I've never insulted anyone on here(there are times when it gets really frustrating explaining something over and over and over again and the person just isn't getting it) but I do try not to.

Very in character move

Not to mention MoS Superman has never shown to have freeze breath.

@randomsid: I dont know honestly I didnt read your guy's whole argument but I didnt see anything to flag worth, and maybe thats cuz I missed it or because I probably will never flag and enjoy duking it out, which is my prerogative, but im glad things are clearing up