Sci (V1) R1: those_eyes vs dedmanwalkin (Voting)

Red Team: @those_eyes

Gallery

• Lucario
• Clefable
• Beheeyem
• Solrock

Sponsor Abstergo

Abstergo believes that the future in in the hands of the few. Always looking for a way to control the masses. As such working for them grants your team Mental Manipulation Immunity, and you can have advance knowledge of the opposing team. You can get 10 Security Gaurds with Handguns two. Better than nothing.

Blue Team: @dedmanwalkin

• The Courier (Fallout: New Vegas)
• The Lone Wanderer (Fallout 3)
• Daud (Dishonored)
• Booker DeWitt (Bioshock Infinite)

Sponsor Wayne Enterprises

Wayne Enterprises prides itself on it special projects. They are always making new gear for stealth, and info gathering. Working for them grants your team Full Knowledge of the enemy. Also gain special suits design to grant Invisibility to any Tech Base Sensors, Superhuman Levels of Hearing, and Smell. Regular human levels of the senses are not affected. Psy senses are affected, but not Psy attacks from direct line of sight. All suits have built in Communications.

Rules

Base Attack

Red Team: Defend the power source suspended in the target area for 5 minuets.

Blue Team: steal the power source and escape the base within 5 minuets.

Simple snatch and grab, or defend if that is your thing. Your team will deployed where you are needed. If Red you will need to fight with the shown UNSC Marines, Warthhogs, and Scorpion tanks. They will fight to the last man all attacking forces. You have 5 minuets till relief forces are deployed and only need to hold out till then protecting the main power source. A fist size device suspended over the target area. Blue team need to get this base shut down now, and will help the shown attacking forces of Ghosts, Banshees, Wraiths, and Grunts. Steal the device, and get out the of target shown area.

@sirfizzwhizz: Thanks for fixing the spelling on the name!

@those_eyes

Well, this is going to be pretty easy for my team. To keep as much of my team obscure as I can, I'll only be going into some of what my team is capable. Basically only 2 of my people are going to be used here with an assist from the Lone Wanderer.

The Distraction

This is all Booker. You look at Booker and think what can a man do? Well, nothing but his daughter can who will be serving as my summon! Meet Elizabeth:

Elizabeth has an awesome ability, dimensional bridging. So using her dimensional bridging, we bring in Liberty Prime as the Lone Wanderer's Summon! Meet Liberty Prime:

Liberty Prime is a powerful robot made of death and doom. Now because he is being dimensionally shifted, he will be weaker and less controllable but who cares. Thanks to dimensional nerfing, he will be taken down pretty quickly but then Elizabeth just summons another one. Now your team have no means of mentally manipulating a robot and his firepower is ridiculous. He shoots out optic blasts that would bust a tank with no problem while his footballs are miniature nuclear weapons. He'll be keeping your army and your team busy and distracted. He may even net a few kills but who cares, he is a distraction.

The Theft

The Lone Wanderer decides to help out Daud by handing him a Stealth Boy. With Liberty Prime making all that noise, Daud activates the Stealth Boy and becomes invisible. Next Daud proceeds to Blink his way to the center of the battle. With Waynetech ensuring he can't be detected by superhuman means and his Stealth Boy ensuring that he can't be detected by eyesight and Blink ensuring that he makes no sound when moving, he is effectively undetectable to your team. You can't see him so none of your telepathy is of any value against him. He ends up within range of the power source in 2 minutes time. He then uses Bend Time I to massively speed himself up. He now is a nearly supersonic. He uses Pull I to grab the power source and bring it to him. He then teleports away. It takes him roughly 1 minute to get back to my team who are all using Stealth Boys to remain invisible. My team wins in 3 minutes.

Conclusion

You can't counter this strategy because Waynetech makes my team immune to most of your attacks. Liberty Prime is more than enough distraction to keep you from noticing the Master Assassin sneak in and steal the Power Source. Given the objectives of this map, my team has no other recourse than to do what it does best.

tag for votes

Damnit my intro and strategy got deleted before i could post it. Ill have it up this week.

(predicts force fields)

T4V

@sightlessreality: Good thing that Liberty Prime is made to literally destroy forcefields!

@those_eyes: @dedmanwalkin: 4 days left.

@sirfizzwhizz: So I am guessing if he doesn't respond I move forward?

@dedmanwalkin: lol my guy is the same way. XD T4V gl guys

yup

Haveing my post accidentally deleted and being busy sucked the motivation out of me but ill have a post up tonight or tomorrow.

@dedmanwalkin:

Introduction!!!!!

Lucario

Description

Powers and Abilities

Beheeyem

Description

Powers and Abilities

Solrock

Description

Powers and Abiliites

Clefable

Description

Powers and Abilities

Strategy

With my teams advanced knowledge on yours we will know what can and cant work on your team. Since you are protected from almost everything my team has to detect you we will have to depend on the only one who can see you, lucario. Since Aura powers are not psychic based Lucario will be able to detect all the members on your team who have a soul and are alive.

Lucario's Aura Reading

Lucario within a smoke screen able to see perfectly by reading aura

Over the span of mountain ranges lucario senses the aura of an entire army of pokmeon spanning over thousands in number. He can see and sense each one individually.

So Daud will not go undetected everytime he pops up somewhere.

Lucario then would just blast Daud away with flash cannon

Releases flash cannon to destroy a giant rock that is in front of a pokemon cruise ship.

.

Or with copycat he could just copy your blink technique

But then again Lucario has movement speed just like teleportation himself

Aswell with Beeyhems furture sight he will be able to see into the future and detect what your team will do before they do it.

As for Elizatbeth. She seems to be only human. With my teams advanced knowledge nothing is stopping Beeheyem or Solrock from using mind control on her or just flicking her away with telekenisis once she is visibly seen.

For all the other members on your team normal human level senses like hearing you would work so any sound your team make within human range

Liberty prime once defeated or tossed away by solrock or beehyems telekenesis will be out same as elizabeth.

Conclusion

Beehyem will see what your team will do before they do it and everyone one on your team is alive and has a soul except for liberty justice so they will be so lucario can see them . Beehyem and lucario can just throw out commands for where the pokemon to attack. While Abtergo's security guards protect the base and the pokemon. Your best assest to try to get in the base is now dead so everyone else on your team will have no way of getting through since my team is so versatile with their powers and since we know what your next move will be.

T4V

@those_eyes: LOL you did not even bring the other pokes with their more powerful moves

Im not done yet. Ill bring up more of there attacks when i see his reply. Heck he didnt even post a scan and you are complaining about me not bringing up other moves. You meany!

@those_eyes: I am on your side , I meant you have yet to show off their other moves lLOL

@those_eyes:

Lucario!

So now we are playing semantics?

Did you not read your own scan? It states: "By catching the aura emanating from others, it can read their THOUGHTS and MOVEMENTS." What about this statement to you suggest that it is not simply renamed telepathy? Reading thoughts and movements is exactly the definition of TELEPATHY. Even assuming that you decide to push it further, Aura Senses are not one of the 5 standard senses and as such fall into the range known as ESP or Psionics. Everything that is not a standard human sense is a Psy Sense.

But assuming you are right and this 6th sense can somehow detect my suits that can only be detected by human levels of senses, my team knows about that thanks to OUR advanced knowledge and takes different actions. So this may become a real fight but in that case things become more interesting because now my team gets to fight yours rather than just ignore them entirely.

How is completely atomizing a large rock and creating that large of explosion in anyway a TANK BUSTING ATTACK? Flash Cannon is over the limits and as such is an illegal move in this tourney. Why can't you stay within the confines of the tourney? Show me a Tank Busting Weapon that can do that! FOLLOW THE RULES!

Copycat only works if you have the Mark and each person's relationship with the Mark is different. Lucario would have to mimic the Mark, which can't be done, and then maybe he gets Blink but maybe he doesn't. Either way, the Outsider HATES when people try to meet him when he does not want to meet them. The Outsider is well outside the confines of the tourney so pissing him off is not a good idea but it is YOUR CHOICE to make not mine. So PLEASE, PLEASE try to use Copycat on Blink! It just means that the Outsider will rip Lucario out of this match quicker than you can say bobs your uncle. Simply put, you can't copy Blink without approval from Daud or the Outsider or you risk losing your character. Good try though!

Beheeyem!

Futuresight again is a form of ESP which means it is Psionics! Waynetech makes me immune to that unless you can see my team which you can't!

But let's say that Futuresight works here. The albeit confusing gif doesn't seem to be anything more than something that Karnak could do. Karnak could use his weakness detection to predict that plank would falter and send them falling to their deaths. That doesn't seem impressive nor does it suggest he can see the future just that he can take available information and make predictions like Cassie Cain does with Movement Reading. It would not help you here at all unless you tasked Beheeyem specifically with guarding the Power Source, which you have not. Unless you have a better feat, it is useless here.

Elizabeth!

Elizabeth is never in any danger, she is well hidden behind something and warping in Liberty Prime from cover like she always does. Unlike your team, Elizabeth CAN see the future and every potential danger her team will face. Another cool part is that should your Aura Reading work, as long as she is alive, she can continually pull alternate reality versions of my team. You literally cannot kill anyone on my team until she is dead and she won't die unless you can lay eyes on her which will not happen thanks to Stealth Boys.

My entire team, save for Liberty Prime, is using Stealth Boys which mean that my team is invisible for an hour. When combined with Waynetech means my team can only be detected by anything short of human levels of hearing and smell. Now The Lone Wanderer and the Courier and Daud and his Assassins are all highly skilled at avoiding human levels of detection through standard stealth means. My guys would give Batman a run for his money in trying to detect them. Even excluding that, just by training with Daud for 2 Weeks my team qualifies for his Arcane Bond. Arcane Bond allows them to use some of Daud's powers, specifically Blink! My team effectively makes ZERO noise when moving! You couldn't detect them if you had a hundred men all looking for them.

See, I hid the hax on my team in the summons rules so that I could achieve "infinite lives cheat code" in video game terms. My basically undetectable Elizabeth can just keep bring back any of my fallen team members or summons infinitely. If we run out of Stealth Boys, she can also just pull in more from other alternate universes. And let's say you do kill her, there are more Elizabeths that can come and fill in! Infinite Elizabeths for Infinite Lives making my team virtually unstoppable.

Liberty Prime!

You really think that Liberty Prime is going to go down easy? First they'd have to be looking at him to do it! If they can see him then he can see them! His Eye Beams alone can kill a fully armored human being in one shot. His Nuclear Footballs are designed to bust through tanks. If he sees your guys, he is hitting them with hot blue death. They'd have to have durability above a modern tank to survive. Lucario seems fast enough and maybe Beheeyem can dodge with futuresight but Solrock and Clefable are nowhere near fast enough. Here is what he does against an entire army or armored troopers and aircraft and forcefields:

And once you do manage to dispose of him, Elizabeth just brings in another one! Now how is Lucario and Beheeyem supposed to fight pretty much unlimited Liberty Primes coming at them and protect the Power Source from Infinite Dauds with Infinite Assassins!

@sirfizzwhizz I would like @smxlr8's vote disqualified. His Pokemon Bias is very clear by this post. He has already decided who he is voting for after initial posts which is an indication that he will not vote fairly.

@those_eyes

Scans are not a requirement nor are they needed for a debate to take place. Only inexperienced debaters rely heavily on scans. Criticizing my lack of scans is more of indication of your skill level than mine.

I was joking with him dedman. I know scans arent necessary to debate. If you feel smxlr8 shouldnt vote then i dont mind but i suppose op gets the final verdict on that. Sorry to offend.

@those_eyes: @dedmanwalkin: Anyone who bumps in a middle of a match like a cheer leader for another is a vote i would not count anyway.

1. your looking at aura reading in only 1 aspect. Yes lucario can use it in a telepathic manner but he can physically see your soul/aura/life energy. Consider someone who can see infared but can also read minds. Seeing infared has nothing to do with telapathy just like seeing your soul/aura has nothing to do with telapathy. Im saying lucario wont be able to use the telepathic aspect of aura reading due to your perk but he can see the aura/soul emitting from your body which is different.

2. In my opinion a rock does not have the same durability as a tank. I think the tank would be more durable than that large rock considering the material its made out of but if op thinks its above the limits i do take fault for that.

3. Copycat has worked on beings without the same type as lucario. He isnt even a fire type but he has used copy cat to make flamethrowers, grass type moves, flying type moves, etc. He has copied the abilities perfectly without ever seeing or using them before. I feel that lucario could do it.

1. Well i dont think futuresight would be a form of ESP

2. The Power Source looks blantly out in the open imo. My whole team is guarding it for the most part as my teams range stems quite far with their attacks.

1. In the mist of all this you are subject to my teams secret weapon. Clefables singing. Its a normal type move not psychic so your wayneteck is not going to save you here. If Elizabeth did somehow manage to escape evasion which i dont believe is possible given lucario and beeheyem then in the mist of battle clefable could defeat everyone on your team except for Liberty Prime.

Clefable can just give the signal to her team and then my team will just close their ears and then your team would fall asleep upon hearing clefable sing or if you get near the base.

1. Libtery Justice sounds way louder than i thought he would in that clip you showed. lol The pokemon would hear him the second he takes a step on the battle field let alone needing beehyem to see the future to detect him.

2. Solrock doesnt really need to dodge much when he can direct your attack back toward you or just make hem go away all together

3. I just dont see LIberty hold up to a few aura spheres. They expload on cantact and Lucario can shoot them in rapid bursts.

Conclusion

1. My team has a clear advantage in the fact that we can incapacitate your team quite quickly due to Clefables singing and Lucarios quick but destructive attacks. You team cant hide from sound. Which would then only leave Libterty justice who will go down to the combined might of the pokemon quite easily.

2. Despite wayne tech and all year gear to use for stealth Lucario and Beeyhem can still see you coming. Aswell the fact that liberity justice is easily noticed due to his sound doesnt even need to be seen for the most part to be attacked.

I see no way you can break through Red teams defenses within 5 minutes.

@dedmanwalkin: What does that have to do with me being a male ? also I was just having fun and I am not that big of pokmon fan to do something like that

Interesting debate so far, please do tag for votes.

@those_eyes:

Lucario!

1. Infrared vision cannot be used to read thoughts or movements! Your summation does not take into account the words being used. It states that he uses his Aura Reading to DETECT THOUGHTS AND MOVEMENTS. It does not say that he has Aura Reading AND he can detect thoughts and movements. There is a massive difference in how it is presented. Also, @sirfizzwhizz ensured that all Psychic-like things are considered the same with this rule:

7) Telepathy like attacks are allowed, but character cannot be so good at TP that Will Power and/or Mental Defense has no way to combat against it.

So soul attacks and telepathy attacks and aura attacks are all the same which means that soul detection and telepathic detection and aura detection are all the same thing. I've made my case more than clear. You are relying solely on it having a different name. I don't want this to be an issue any longer so we'll just let @sirfizzwhizz decide. Please read this description of Aura Reading:

2. Tank Busting Attacks DO NOT ATOMIZE rock or create explosions that large! See, explosion size is directly tied to power output so bigger explosions = more damage. Since the boat did not crash, this means that not only was the rock above the surface atomized but also all the rock below the surface which means Lucario didn't just ATOMIZE the rock above the surface but also below the surface. We are talking about at least a 4-5 ton rock disappearing before the boat can hit it. That is ridiculous! @sirfizzwhizz doesn't seem to grasp the rules so please judge this scan:

3. You didn't read a single thing I said did you? Daud's Blink is an ability he is granted directly from the Outsider! No Outsider no Blink! Until you can show me Copycat copying a move that is being granted to another being through a tattoo, it simply cannot do it. Crossing types does not matter because the moves are coming directly from Pokemon not someone who is empowering the Pokemon. Has a Pokemon ever copied a human skill? If the answer is no then you have your answer here. Copying Blink will only piss of the Outsider! Doing so is your choice, so you have to deal with the Outsider ripping Lucario out of the battle!

Beheeyem!

Clairvoyance and Precognition are what Futuresight is unless it really is just weakness detection. Both of those are forms of ESP, are you being deliberately obfuscatory or have you never heard of ESP? So unless @sirfizzwhizz sees fit to allow you to use Futuresight against my Waynetech, it can't be used here.

So far Beheeyem's futuresight hasn't been proven to be much better than standard movement reading so until you do it is still no value here.

You did not specify

Clefable!

Clefable's singing falls under this:

7) Telepathy like attacks are allowed, but character cannot be so good at TP that Will Power and/or Mental Defense has no way to combat against it.

So even though it is "sonic" it still is classified like a telepathic attack which means that you still have to detect my team to use it. Even assuming that it works, my team can function perfectly without hearing so they'd just plug their ears. Except for Daud, Daud is immune regardless thanks to the Mark. He can't be manipulated by any telepathy-like attacks. The Courier and the Lone Wanderer will just use the high powered senses of ED-E to do their hearing for them. ED-E is the Courier's summon.

Elizabeth will never be within range of your team, she is hidden well behind any walls or what have you. Clefable's song will never even get close to her dainty ears.

Liberty Prime!

Liberty Prime is never meant to hide, he is meant to be detected so that your team will be focused on him.

Solrock's Shield cannot exceed Modern Day Tank durability and Liberty Prime's attack is at the peak of Tank Busting. This means that either your shield is in breach of the rules or your shield goes down. Did you see how rapidly Liberty can fire his beams? Now after he busts Solrock's Shield he'll bust Solrock!

Aura Spheres seem to make it impossible for him to move while firing. How is he dodging eye blasts while firing them? What keeps him from getting destroyed. Remember, I don't care if Liberty Prime survives, he is a distraction. One that I can keep coming.

Conclusion

You built your whole team on psionics which is why you went with Abstergo so that you wouldn't have to worry about a response to it. When you chose to attack someone with Waynetech, your biggest advantage was rendered useless. You had to now use whatever backup attacks to make your team effective and against my team's tech and abilities, they mean nothing.

Daud takes the Power Source in less than 5 minutes and there is nothing your team can do about it.

@dedmanwalkin:

Those_eyes Ending Post

Lucario

1. dedmanwalking is ignoring lucarios aura reading abilities. Yes it can be used for telepathy but visibly seeing aura is not telapathy and is not predicting the opponents moves it just seeing the opponents soul. I was using infared as an example. As you saw in the scans of lucario looking at an entire army of pokemon when he himself wasnt near.
2. I stand by flash cannon being within limits. dedman comparing a rock to a tank is not going to fly imo.
3. If you want to be so critical you said liberty justice has mini nukes. Thats defiantly above tank level. Also liberty seems to be stronger than 10 tons which is over strength limit.

Beheeyem

1. Beheeyems projected future images of what would happen in the future to ash and his friends, how you came up with that only being movement reading is beyond me. We will just let op and the voters decide on that one.

Clefable

1. Singing is not a telepathic/psychic attack. It falls under the normal type category

Despite the blue teams tech they are still able to easily be detected by half of my team. The other half of my team can hear them. They have no counter to clefables singing, lucarios speed,or beeyehems and solrocks telekenesis.

All this will be too much to try to bypass in under 5 minutes.

@sirfizzwhizz: hey ive put my final post up so whenever dedmanwalkin is ready votes can start.

@those_eyes: Even though votes haven't begun, this was a excellent debate by both, and honestly if you do tag me i will literally say it's a draw. I feel both of you not only provided points that made me go OH YEAH and think you're side would win, but the other countered them well enough to make me go Mhhh fair enough, so i'd flip a coin but most people don't trust my flip of fate so i'd say it's a draw. However, that's if votes have begun if not then ill delete and await for the counters to be made again.

@sirfizzwhizz: did you want me to create my battle vs bullet in the head?

@killerwasp: Looks like voting is officially on. I guess if you feel a coin toss is in order then go right ahead since draws dont count. lol

Thanks for taking the time to read through our posts.

@those_eyes: just people dont trust my flips honestly and it maks me sad i just let fate decide, anyway here let me flip and it landed for u, so you get me vote.

My vote goes to dedmanwalkin had a close call, just felt he supported his cause just a little more with underrated character good job to both of you! @dedmanwalkin@those_eyes

@vintage_spiderman: @nyas: @thitiki: @archanfel:@leo-343: @princearagorn1: @mysticmedivh: @war_ruin: @hylian:

Please feel free to vote. Its only 1 page of debating so it wont take long to decided who you feel was the winner.

I'll go with @those_eyes

also why is there a picture of deoxys?

Because i originally was going to use deoxys instead of lucario and the op told me deoxys was too powerful for this tournament i picked lucario instead but i forgot to have op change the picture of deoxys to lucario. thanks for voting..

@dedmanwalkin: @those_eyes: Giving my vote to Deadmanwalkin Killerwasp said it well, you both were extremely good at debating. I feel he made the more impressive counters. Good job!

@baztet: thank you for voting.

dedmanwalkin: 1 vote

those_eyes: 2 votes

@those_eyes: I'm going to give my vote to you.

Ill give my vote to Dedman, his posts were just a bit more concise

^ thank you guys for voting. keep the votes coming.

dedmanwalkin: 2 vote

those_eyes: 3 votes

I vote for thoseyes. I like his counters and this debate was amazing. If any of you guys can can you take a look at my match http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/sci-v1-r1-nickzambuto-vs-halochemist-1634889/

we need votes:) thanks

@hylian: @haoalchemist: @dragonenton:
I would like more of an explanation.

His strategy wasn't deemed within the rules and he had no real backup strategy. Voting for someone wholeheartedly who may have been using an invalid strategy is in bad taste.

I know you all seem to love your pokemon but letting that color your decision making is disrespectful to me, my opponent, and the forum at large.

@those_eyes:

I never got to put up my last post because I never received a notification that you had posted.

The fact that you decided to just decided to ignore any potential rulings from the OP is disrespectful to the tourney creator. Do not make any assumptions about your team or characters until a ruling is made if a ruling is called for, it is just rude. Your post is effectively in breach of the rules until a ruling can be made.

@killerwasp: Coin flips are not votes otherwise there is no reason to even have the debates we just pick teams and flip a coin. Unless you chose to actually support one team over the other, your vote is invalid. But more to the point, why did you think this was close? He was relying solely on a strategy that may or may not violate the rules. He presented no means of surviving if his potentially illegal strategy was ruled invalid.

@thefallen_1I asked for several rulings here that were never given please review this:

Infrared vision cannot be used to read thoughts or movements! Your summation does not take into account the words being used. It states that he uses his Aura Reading to DETECT THOUGHTS AND MOVEMENTS. It does not say that he has Aura Reading AND he can detect thoughts and movements. There is a massive difference in how it is presented. Also, @sirfizzwhizz ensured that all Psychic-like things are considered the same with this rule:

7) Telepathy like attacks are allowed, but character cannot be so good at TP that Will Power and/or Mental Defense has no way to combat against it.

So soul attacks and telepathy attacks and aura attacks are all the same which means that soul detection and telepathic detection and aura detection are all the same thing. I've made my case more than clear. You are relying solely on it having a different name. I don't want this to be an issue any longer so we'll just let @sirfizzwhizz decide. Please read this description of Aura Reading:

2. Tank Busting Attacks DO NOT ATOMIZE rock or create explosions that large! See, explosion size is directly tied to power output so bigger explosions = more damage. Since the boat did not crash, this means that not only was the rock above the surface atomized but also all the rock below the surface which means Lucario didn't just ATOMIZE the rock above the surface but also below the surface. We are talking about at least a 4-5 ton rock disappearing before the boat can hit it. That is ridiculous! @sirfizzwhizz my opponent doesn't seem to grasp the rules so please judge this scan:

Beheeyem!

Clairvoyance and Precognition are what Futuresight is unless it really is just weakness detection. Both of those are forms of ESP, are you being deliberately obfuscatory or have you never heard of ESP? So unless @sirfizzwhizz sees fit to allow you to use Futuresight against my Waynetech, it can't be used here.

Clefable!

Clefable's singing falls under this:

7) Telepathy like attacks are allowed, but character cannot be so good at TP that Will Power and/or Mental Defense has no way to combat against it.

So even though it is "sonic" it still is classified like a telepathic attack which means that you still have to detect my team to use it. Even assuming that it works, my team can function perfectly without hearing so they'd just plug their ears. Except for Daud, Daud is immune regardless thanks to the Mark. He can't be manipulated by any telepathy-like attacks. The Courier and the Lone Wanderer will just use the high powered senses of ED-E to do their hearing for them. ED-E is the Courier's summon.

@those_eyes decided that any ruling you had was not important so he continued to just push the only agenda that could give his team a win.

@dedmanwalkin: Look i gave reason to why i think i didnt break the rules and i even stated that its up to sirfizzwhizz to give the verdict. Just because you say something is against the rules doesnt mean it is. He didnt say anything about it to me so i just progressed. He even progressed with changing the title to voting so he must have saw our posts.

Also i tagged you stating my conclusion post and told sirfizzwhizz to start voting after you were ready. I only progressed with votes after sirfizzwhizz changed it to voting time so i thought he spoke with you . Take that up with him.

Im fine with postponing my votes until you feel sirfizzwhizz has addressed your concerns.

First of all, don't assume i am voting for him due to Pokemon. His opener and scans were better formatted and Your rebuttal was Weak. My vote is still for @those_eyes.

@dedmanwalkin: @those_eyes:

Clefable Singing falls under Mind control. If someone has shown proven resistance to mental manipulation, then it would no work as well as one may hope.

Lucario Aura is not treated as Psychic, due to the fact it is clearly not a psychic type move as define in their universe, more like magic to me. pokemon are very clearl cut what is psychic and not, and magic is not treated as Psy either.

That one attack was way past limits, so that feat should not even be considered.

Waynetech prevents Psy Senses from sensing them in the moment. There was questions of it with Jedi as well, and the fact is Seeing the future is not detetcing a mind. It is detecting over all events. Precognition works.

In short,

if @sirfizzwhizz rules that rules were broken by @those_eyes, @dedmanwalkin gets my vote.

otherwise, those_eyes takes it.

good read.

@dedmanwalkin: Your being disrespectful to me for making such assumptions. I honestly think that Those-eyes did better at counter arguments. He seemed to know what he was talking about more than you. I didn't see anytime the he broke the rules.

@thefallen_1: Thanks for providing a ruling. I had never actually considered using "In Universe" definitions but thanks for the tip.

Aura Reading

Now you said that In Universe, Aura Reading isn't defined as Psychic-Type. So I started looking into it. Turns out Aura powers are defined actually as a sonic power.

Aura in the Pokémon Adventures manga is explained as a wave that can be picked up by people just like sound. Certain Pokémon and humans can pick up this sound, allowing them to see and sense the Auras of others. However, due to the fact that Aura is the same as sound, it can be interrupted by anything that cuts the airspace.

Known users of Aura include Riley and his Pokémon, Lucario and Riolu. Riley and Lucario had their Aura abilities blocked by two Roughnecks that were attacking Iron Island when they used their Mothim to use Air Slash, cutting up the airspace around it. This prevented Riley and his Pokémon from tracking their Aura, along with blinding their eyes with Vespiquen honey. Once Diamond defeated the Mothim, thus causing the Aura to be visible again, Riley and Lucario unleashed their wrath upon them.

Turns out I was barking up the wrong tree! Aura Reading is just basically Daredevil's Radar Sense! Assuming that this is right, I assume that this means that Aura Reading cannot be used to detect Waynetech cloaking?

Futuresight

Again since we are using in universe definitions to determine if something falls under Psy Senses, let's just have a read on Future Sight:

Future Sight (Japanese: みらいよちFuture Sight) is a damage-dealing Psychic-type move introduced in Generation II.

Turns out that "in universe," Pokemon defines Futuresight as a Psychic-Type Move. So by the rules used by Pokemon, shouldn't Future Sight be covered under Waynetech's invisibility? This was your previous ruling for Aura Reading.

Keep in mind that I am not trying to debate you just using your own rationale.

Arua as sound detection would be negated. Yes.

Yes its a psy move, but its does not fall in the rules as I meant them. I meant rules use to sense or find. Future sight is just that, a picture of the future, and not the present. Your suits render your characters invisible, not their actions.