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#51 Posted by Scarlet Thor (1112 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Still, those two feats are the only ones everyone brings up in every Scarlet Witch battle thread.
She might have had greater control than usual for a short period of time, but bottom line is her hexes always have a degree of unreliability."
Yes because they haven't red much of her. And I say again, for a long time until house of M she had total control over her power. It's not my fault if most of the people on these boards are not familiar with this era. She had feat there which Psylock couldn't even dream of
#52 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Without concentration, Scarlet Witches hexes have an 80 % chance of working in her favor.  ANYTHING can happen with those odds.  With concentration, Wanda can influence her hexes exactly how she wants.  Also, she has brought herself back from wounds that should have killed her.  She did it all on her own.  No assistance from anyone else. 

#53 Posted by fesak (7054 posts) - - Show Bio

So i checked the handbooks and it says that her hexes has a 20% unreliable factor and she is limited in the range of sight, although she has been able to overcome the latter limitation on occasion via extreme concentration and sorcerous enchantment.

So, she has not, nor has ever had that kind of control you claim.

Moderator
#54 Posted by Scarlet Thor (1112 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"So i checked the handbooks and it says that her hexes has a 20% unreliable factor and she is limited in the range of sight, although she has been able to overcome the latter limitation on occasion via extreme concentration and sorcerous enchantment.

So, she has not, nor has ever had that kind of control you claim."
I know what the handbooks say BUT Have you red the series????
I guess not. I have red every single book with her in it. Just check my name....; )
She had never missed a hex since vol3...
#55 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

she's got plot-hexes!!!

#56 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

there like batmans plot-a-merangs but magic based!!

#57 Posted by Scarlet Thor (1112 posts) - - Show Bio
kaino12 said:
"there like batmans plot-a-merangs but magic based!!"
No she just got an upgrade sice vol one.
It's just that most people don't know or they don't care to know
#58 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

awww. i just wanted to use my plot-a-meranges refrence...

#59 Posted by Scarlet Thor (1112 posts) - - Show Bio
kaino12 said:
"awww. i just wanted to use my plot-a-meranges refrence..."
hahaha ok
#60 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio
Scarlet Thor said:
"kaino12 said:
"awww. i just wanted to use my plot-a-meranges refrence..."
hahaha ok"

YEA!!
#61 Posted by fesak (7054 posts) - - Show Bio
Scarlet Thor said:
"fesak said:
"So i checked the handbooks and it says that her hexes has a 20% unreliable factor and she is limited in the range of sight, although she has been able to overcome the latter limitation on occasion via extreme concentration and sorcerous enchantment.

So, she has not, nor has ever had that kind of control you claim."
I know what the handbooks say BUT Have you red the series????
I guess not. I have red every single book with her in it. Just check my name....; )
She had never missed a hex since vol3..."

Of course i have, and her hexes fail all the time in that series, for example in Avengers v3 #2 she's been using her hexes for days, trying to break free from Morgan Lefey's shackles.
If she had perfect control she would do it on her first try.

I think i'm going to believe what Marvel says themselves about their character's powers.
Moderator
#62 Posted by Scarlet Thor (1112 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Scarlet Thor said:
"fesak said:
"So i checked the handbooks and it says that her hexes has a 20% unreliable factor and she is limited in the range of sight, although she has been able to overcome the latter limitation on occasion via extreme concentration and sorcerous enchantment.

So, she has not, nor has ever had that kind of control you claim."
I know what the handbooks say BUT Have you red the series????
I guess not. I have red every single book with her in it. Just check my name....; )
She had never missed a hex since vol3..."

Of course i have, and her hexes fail all the time in that series, for example in Avengers v3 #2 she's been using her hexes for days, trying to break free from Morgan Lefey's shackles.
If she had perfect control she would do it on her first try.

I think i'm going to believe what Marvel says themselves about their character's powers."
That's the only example that doesn't make sense... She couldn't break free cause the power of Mogana was stopping her. She was in HER dimension and still Wanada beat her. No one said she is omnipotent. Com on give me an other example from this era I would very much love to know.
#63 Posted by Scarlet Thor (1112 posts) - - Show Bio
kaino12 said:
"...burn"
meaning???
#64 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

meaning he has to roll a will save of 15 or higher to not be intimedated.

#65 Posted by fesak (7054 posts) - - Show Bio

You said she never fails, which she did. Another example is #9 where she tries to depower Moses Magnum. Didn't work either.

Moderator
#66 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

i think he passed the will must have rolled a natural 20.

#67 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio
#68 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

koolieo!!

#69 Posted by Erik (32797 posts) - - Show Bio

Psylocke.

#70 Posted by Scarlet Thor (1112 posts) - - Show Bio

dude it's another thing try to do something and fail and a completely different thing try to do something and have a different effect. For example the Sentry couldn't lift the helicarrier that doesn't mean he doesn't have super strength. Wanda produced different effects  from the desired but that was never after vol 3. The fact that she failed to do some things doen't mean she couldn't control her hexes but simply their were not enough...

#71 Posted by Erik (32797 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Psylocke."
#72 Posted by Gloom (3653 posts) - - Show Bio
#73 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

Why I would still vote for Psylocke in this fight, after reading the HEX-ation thing of Wanda:

Wanda needs to say it for it to happen or even think about it, but how fast? I believe Psylocke thinks faster and moves faster.

One of the things that a telekinetic can do is crush her foe's bones without them getting near...Psylocke has long and wide range attack and again faster than Wanda can say  " You..." (Wanda is supposed to say "You don't exist"

Psylocke always don't hold back even when she knows she is not at par to her enemy and has a stronger mental and physical state than Scarlet Witch.

#74 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio
IcePrince_X said:
"Why I would still vote for Psylocke in this fight, after reading the HEX-ation thing of Wanda:

Wanda needs to say it for it to happen or even think about it, but how fast? I believe Psylocke thinks faster and moves faster.

One of the things that a telekinetic can do is crush her foe's bones without them getting near...Psylocke has long and wide range attack and again faster than Wanda can say  " You..." (Wanda is supposed to say "You don't exist"

Psylocke always don't hold back even when she knows she is not at par to her enemy and has a stronger mental and physical state than Scarlet Witch."
May not work on Wanda.  She doesn't need to say her hexes, and Psylocke's TK may not work on her effectively.  She bends the very fabric of reality to her will.  This used to be limited to her hexes, but the hexes themselves were limits.  We are talking about the same woman who shut Magneto's mouth and paralyzed his powers.  Not to mention the numerous times she cast a hex to cause force fields to malfunction in one way or another.  And the numerous times that she used her hexes to disrupt energy transmissions. 
#75 Posted by Erik (32797 posts) - - Show Bio

She cannot bend Psylocke to her will. That would include her powers. I think you are giving Wanda way too much credit here. You act like she is a god or something. Psylocke is completely immune to reality warping. Completely! That means she could reach out with her powers and pop Wanda like a swollen pimple. 

#76 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio

Scarlet Witch overkill. She'll just overwhelm with her magical force.

#77 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"She cannot bend Psylocke to her will. That would include her powers. I think you are giving Wanda way too much credit here. You act like she is a god or something. Psylocke is completely immune to reality warping. Completely! That means she could reach out with her powers and pop Wanda like a swollen pimple. "

I did not say "bend Psylocke to her will" because you already said she was immune to reality warping.  That said, I never saw anything that said Psylocke's powers were immune, but thanks for telling me.  THAT said, does this mean that Psylocke is immune to every natural, elemental, and mystic force known to the world?  Cause from what ya'll are saying, the infinite number of effects Scarlet Witch could bring on Betsy are absolutely useless even if they occur from realities new "settings". 
#78 Posted by Fae (805 posts) - - Show Bio

Psylocke's immunity to reality warping won't save her. Just because she herself cannot be altered doesn't mean she'll survive Wanda turning her entire surroundings to lava or an airless vacuum or simply surrounding her with a skintight layer of solid adamantium, for example.

#79 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

I still say speed and attack range advantage belongs to Psylocke.

Who is the better and efficient reality warper, Jamie Braddock or Wanda? Because in terms of creation, I see Jamie making things really concrete.

#80 Edited by Gloom (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't Jamie vs. Wanda, this is Betsy vs. Wanda, the latter of which is, as you said it, a reality warper. TK won't cut it for Psylocke.

And "speed and attack range"? Wanda has unlimited attack range (or rather, all of reality is her range of attack) and she warped the entire 616 universe in a moment.

#81 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio
IcePrince_X said:
"I still say speed and attack range advantage belongs to Psylocke.

Who is the better and efficient reality warper, Jamie Braddock or Wanda? Because in terms of creation, I see Jamie making things really concrete."
 Wanda can bend odds in her favor.  That isn't reality warping.  That's simple probability.  Without Magic, Wanda only channels probability.  WITH magic, Wanda is the powerhouse that we know her as today.  But the probability can still be enough to make the impossible possible.  Also, I don't know who is better, cause Wanda has ressurrected people and killed them again and raised other from the dead.  Another question, is Psylocke immune to ALL magic?  Cause 1/2 of Wanda's powers are mystic in nature. 
#82 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio
IcePrince_X said:
"I still say speed and attack range advantage belongs to Psylocke.

Who is the better and efficient reality warper, Jamie Braddock or Wanda? Because in terms of creation, I see Jamie making things really concrete."
Gloom said:
"This isn't Jamie vs. Wanda, this is Betsy vs. Wanda, the latter of which is, as you said it, a reality warper. TK won't cut it for Psylocke.

And "speed and attack range"? Wanda has unlimited attack range (or rather, all of reality is her range of attack) and she warped the entire 616 universe in a moment."
My point here is BETSY is a product of Jamie Braddock. If Jamie is more powerful than Wanda then Wanda can not undo what Jamie has done.

But I guess based on what was at least established in the other threads here is that Betsy may not be affected by Wanda's hex personally but her environment does... that is why I am basing my analogy on the capabilities of Psylocke to directly attack Wanda before the latter affects or change their environment to the latter's favor.
#83 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio
IcePrince_X said:
"I still say speed and attack range advantage belongs to Psylocke.

Who is the better and efficient reality warper, Jamie Braddock or Wanda? Because in terms of creation, I see Jamie making things really concrete."
Gloom said:
"This isn't Jamie vs. Wanda, this is Betsy vs. Wanda, the latter of which is, as you said it, a reality warper. TK won't cut it for Psylocke.

And "speed and attack range"? Wanda has unlimited attack range (or rather, all of reality is her range of attack) and she warped the entire 616 universe in a moment."
My point here is BETSY is a product of Jamie Braddock. If Jamie is more powerful than Wanda then Wanda can not undo what Jamie has done.

But I guess based on what was at least established in the other threads here is that Betsy may not be affected by Wanda's hex personally but her environment does... that is why I am basing my analogy on the capabilities of Psylocke to directly attack Wanda before the latter affects or change their environment to the latter's favor.
#84 Edited by MarvelHexQueenSw (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Well i will have to stick with my girl (wanda) knowing most of the time marvel gives her hexing power
with limited magic training . but psylocke is a tough cookie with what she been though but theres one
thing to be direct and a other to be indirect i mean with wandas hex bolts(probability taping): "hex bolts," which give her the ability to affect probability fields to cause unlikely events to occur, and can make objects spontaneously burst into flames, rust or decay. + her limited magic training which enhance her power.
anything crazy can happen with in probability . but i hope we  talking about probability wanda and not
reality based wanda but psylocke can't be touch directly by magic/reality i don't think but i still stick by the witch and hopefully she turn her surroundings on her.

#85 Posted by boob (366 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik:
The funny thing about being immune in Marvel is ................it more like some times your immune. I've seen writers say that Rogue was immune to psy attacks because of the fact that she has (had) so many different minds in her.  Then other writers said it was just hard but not impossable for telepaths to attack her. Then in other comics telepaths had no problem attacking her mind. Its the same for many other people as well.

As for hand to hand. Psylocke became a ninja (in 1 day I might add) and lets face it her skills have not always been that good. Sabertooth (in her British body she kicked his butt 2 times), and Vargas have killed her. And many others have shown to be beter hand to hand combats. Now I'm not saying Wanda is better but lets face it she wont be taken down so easily. She has been trained by Captain America, Ms Marvel and other people on how to defend herself. I've never seen her do it, but thats not to say she cann't be a good hand to hand. 

#86 Posted by xmenfallen (1388 posts) - - Show Bio

wanda 
but it will be hard

#87 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, can't believe I made a thread like this two years ago and vocal. 
 
Take note for the Ressurrectors of this Thread and future debaters: This is the Psylocke during the time Jaime Braddock returned her from the dead, with no telepathic powers but unfathomable telekinetic powers and immunity to reality warping and magic based powers and Scarlett Witch of HoM

#88 Posted by boob (366 posts) - - Show Bio

But like I said Marvel doesn't like to stick to their own rules. They say she has immunity, but if it serves the purpose of the plot. She wont be. Even then would she be immune if Wanda got rid of the ground under her, and dropped a building on her head at the same time?

#89 Posted by bunnieswithtophats (173 posts) - - Show Bio

Although I love both characters, I think Psylocke would inevitably win. In the past, Scarlet Witch has either been mentally unstable or oblivious to the extent (or even existence) of her mutant powers; this coupled with Psylocke's telepathy leaves the Witch a bit too vulnerable to Betsy's power. Even Agatha Harkness was able to warp Wanda's mind, after all. Such a feat should be completely plausible for a powerful telepath like Psy.

I agree that Scarlet Witch has far more vigor than Psylocke in terms of Raw power, but Betsy's technical control wins it for her.

If, in theory, Psylocke went up against a fully-powered, fully conscious Wanda, she'd be vapor before she could even form a thought. As things are, however, Wanda is just too psychologically unstable to compete with Betsy's finesse.

#90 Edited by bunnieswithtophats (173 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, Betsy lost the blocks that jamie put on her. btw....

#91 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

@bunnieswithtophats said:

Also, Betsy lost the blocks that jamie put on her. btw....

I did post that this is the time when Psylocke just got resurrected by Jaime Braddock to prep her against the Forsaken... not the other version before her death and not the current one.

Marvel is so guilty in downgrading and upgrading their characters for the sole purpose of a story. Like one article of G-Man said they have a serious continuity issues.

#92 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4135 posts) - - Show Bio

Even when she had the block, the moment she entered House of M she was affected by the warp, she thought she was a British princess and had memories of a childhood in a place that did not exist, meaning Wandas warp was more powerful than Jamies.  The only thing that undid this was falling into the breach and being pulled out.

#93 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

#94 Posted by Killemall (18573 posts) - - Show Bio

@boob said:

But like I said Marvel doesn't like to stick to their own rules. They say she has immunity, but if it serves the purpose of the plot. She wont be. Even then would she be immune if Wanda got rid of the ground under her, and dropped a building on her head at the same time?

This is SO true:) so much WIN!!

@LordOfAllHumans said:

Even when she had the block, the moment she entered House of M she was affected by the warp, she thought she was a British princess and had memories of a childhood in a place that did not exist, meaning Wandas warp was more powerful than Jamies. The only thing that undid this was falling into the breach and being pulled out.

Absolutely, full powered Wanda is just too powerful.