#1 Edited by russellmania77 (15019 posts) - - Show Bio

blood lusted

fight in brazil

start 30 ft apart

the song the kill is playing in the background

#2 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: Current Scarlet Witch? Blood Lusted as in Zarathos Ghost Rider?

#3 Edited by Gambit474 (1467 posts) - - Show Bio

If I recall Wanda lost her reality warping powers..she could do BFR but that'd be about it,otherwise GR fries her soul

#4 Posted by russellmania77 (15019 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: So Pre House of M Wanda vs Zarathos GR.

I would say GR stands a chance vs HoM Wanda being that Zadkiel on Gods Throne had power over all Creation could not Reality Warp, Transmutate, or Molecule Manipulate GR in any fashion.

Zarathos should stomp, or BFR Wanda to the Realm of GRs and rape her soul.

#6 Posted by New_World_Order (13035 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda.

#7 Posted by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77: So Pre House of M Wanda vs Zarathos GR.

I would say GR stands a chance vs HoM Wanda being that Zadkiel on Gods Throne had power over all Creation could not Reality Warp, Transmutate, or Molecule Manipulate GR in any fashion.

Zarathos should stomp, or BFR Wanda to the Realm of GRs and rape her soul.

Don't know enough about ghost rider to make this call. but If i recall, it was stated that the chaos wave threatened the throne of creation, which leads to believe she could dispatch him.

#8 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't know enough about ghost rider to make this call. but If i recall, it was stated that the chaos wave threatened the throne of creation, which leads to believe she could dispatch him.

You dont actually need the whole Chaos Wave though man, Wanda has the ability to tap into very energy of Darkhold, Ghost Rider doesnt actually have a particularly good record against Dark Magic, Darkhold is by far the most powerful source of Dark/ Chaos magic in a realm adjoining 616 (of course i am not including the realm or vishanti because they actually have a abstract that embodiment Chaos Magic who should horribly dwarf Chthon's power).

I dont think its reality warping that Ghost Rider should watch out for, its her magic (chaos wave was actually the byproduct of her magic rather than a perfect reality warping because it only tore thru the continumm nor warp it into chaos or anything).

#9 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@russellmania77: So Pre House of M Wanda vs Zarathos GR.

I would say GR stands a chance vs HoM Wanda being that Zadkiel on Gods Throne had power over all Creation could not Reality Warp, Transmutate, or Molecule Manipulate GR in any fashion.

Zarathos should stomp, or BFR Wanda to the Realm of GRs and rape her soul.

Don't know enough about ghost rider to make this call. but If i recall, it was stated that the chaos wave threatened the throne of creation, which leads to believe she could dispatch him.

its just IMO. There been another thread of HoM Wanda vs GR.

These are the highlites of the arguments.

1) GR as proven in his battle vs Zadkiel was proven immune to Reality Warping by Zadkiel who had power over all creation.

2) The Chaos Wave affecting every earth of the Omniverse is false as the Mutants of Ultimate Verse 1610 remain unaffected.

3) Wanda had very little to no control of the Chaos Wave and its effects. There were many mutants unaffected for whatever reason and others totally affected.

4) Wanda Chaos Wave was a fail as New Avengers had to battle the sum remaining powers of House of M depowered Mutants called the Collective. So she really never did Reality Warp the powers away now did she?

There is many more points, but IMO after research and debates from both parties, is that House of M Wanda is not all that and a bag of chips.

#10 Edited by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_insignia1 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@russellmania77: So Pre House of M Wanda vs Zarathos GR.

I would say GR stands a chance vs HoM Wanda being that Zadkiel on Gods Throne had power over all Creation could not Reality Warp, Transmutate, or Molecule Manipulate GR in any fashion.

Zarathos should stomp, or BFR Wanda to the Realm of GRs and rape her soul.

Don't know enough about ghost rider to make this call. but If i recall, it was stated that the chaos wave threatened the throne of creation, which leads to believe she could dispatch him.

its just IMO. There been another thread of HoM Wanda vs GR.

These are the highlites of the arguments.

1) GR as proven in his battle vs Zadkiel was proven immune to Reality Warping by Zadkiel who had power over all creation.

2) The Chaos Wave affecting every earth of the Omniverse is false as the Mutants of Ultimate Verse 1610 remain unaffected.

3) Wanda had very little to no control of the Chaos Wave and its effects. There were many mutants unaffected for whatever reason and others totally affected.

4) Wanda Chaos Wave was a fail as New Avengers had to battle the sum remaining powers of House of M depowered Mutants called the Collective. So she really never did Reality Warp the powers away now did she?

There is many more points, but IMO after research and debates from both parties, is that House of M Wanda is not all that and a bag of chips.

lol as if reality warping is her only avenue of offense.

Also, I need context for the Zadkiel scenario. I feel that there are key parts to be filled in. I'm sure GR he has been defeated by way less.

#11 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_insignia1: Here you are.

Ghost Rider Heaven on Fire 06:

So essentially Zadkiel takes over heaven, and replaces the god, we dont really know who this god is. He fights and beats Ghost Rider initially but when he tried to permanently kill him he fails because only god can kill the Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider uses their power to summon other dead riders and Zadkiel is defeated (the very fact that a small army of GR could take down Zadkiel sort of shows the boost he got , by sitting on heaven's chair wasnt huge). And while control over all creation has been said about him, it could very well be hyperbole.

I think its a little too much talk and very little feats from Zadkiel, apart from killing some nameless angels is why i would chuck that under hyperbole category.

I think he had the power of a skyfather, after all, all gods of a particular religion are , in marvel, considered a skyfather. Odin and Asgard to Norse Mythology, is similar concept to God and Heaven in Christianity.

#12 Posted by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_insignia1: Here you are.

Ghost Rider Heaven on Fire 06:

So essentially Zadkiel takes over heaven, and replaces the god, we dont really know who this god is. He fights and beats Ghost Rider initially but when he tried to permanently kill him he fails because only god can kill the Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider uses their power to summon other dead riders and Zadkiel is defeated (the very fact that a small army of GR could take down Zadkiel sort of shows the boost he got , by sitting on heaven's chair wasnt huge). And while control over all creation has been said about him, it could very well be hyperbole.

I think its a little too much talk and very little feats from Zadkiel, apart from killing some nameless angels is why i would chuck that under hyperbole category.

I think he had the power of a skyfather, after all, all gods of a particular religion are , in marvel, considered a skyfather. Odin and Asgard to Norse Mythology, is similar concept to God and Heaven in Christianity.

ah there we go, I had my doubts that the "God" mentioned was in fact synonymous with "TOAA" the statements about Wanda's chaos wave, seemed to be more akin to omniversal creation rather than this ambiguous "God" mentioned.

#13 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

@x_insignia1 said:

Don't know enough about ghost rider to make this call. but If i recall, it was stated that the chaos wave threatened the throne of creation, which leads to believe she could dispatch him.

You dont actually need the whole Chaos Wave though man, Wanda has the ability to tap into very energy of Darkhold, Ghost Rider doesnt actually have a particularly good record against Dark Magic, Darkhold is by far the most powerful source of Dark/ Chaos magic in a realm adjoining 616 (of course i am not including the realm or vishanti because they actually have a abstract that embodiment Chaos Magic who should horribly dwarf Chthon's power).

I dont think its reality warping that Ghost Rider should watch out for, its her magic (chaos wave was actually the byproduct of her magic rather than a perfect reality warping because it only tore thru the continumm nor warp it into chaos or anything).

This is true.

@x_insignia1 said:

@killemall said:

@x_insignia1: Here you are.

Ghost Rider Heaven on Fire 06:

So essentially Zadkiel takes over heaven, and replaces the god, we dont really know who this god is. He fights and beats Ghost Rider initially but when he tried to permanently kill him he fails because only god can kill the Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider uses their power to summon other dead riders and Zadkiel is defeated (the very fact that a small army of GR could take down Zadkiel sort of shows the boost he got , by sitting on heaven's chair wasnt huge). And while control over all creation has been said about him, it could very well be hyperbole.

I think its a little too much talk and very little feats from Zadkiel, apart from killing some nameless angels is why i would chuck that under hyperbole category.

I think he had the power of a skyfather, after all, all gods of a particular religion are , in marvel, considered a skyfather. Odin and Asgard to Norse Mythology, is similar concept to God and Heaven in Christianity.

ah there we go, I had my doubts that the "God" mentioned was in fact synonymous with "TOAA" the statements about Wanda's chaos wave, seemed to be more akin to omniversal creation rather than this ambiguous "God" mentioned.

"Shakes head".....

First off you miss some KEY points.

Zadkiel uses his power as fact a form of reality warping and it boggled Son of Satan who seen Universal Threats.

The Author Narration describes it as all powerful. Not a mere small boost. Seriously, lets just ignore the Author/Narrators blatant intention.

There is this small fact too.

God flooded the Earth and made man as stated on Panel in Narration.

Another GR privy to the truth breaks the Religion and worship down. All Major religions including Buddist and Hindus worship the one god.

As Zadkiel Explains God is perfect, his creations are not. Thus how he was able to upsurp the power. Not that it mattered as the Ghost Riders are God Power and with God's power enmass beat Zadkiel down.

There is your context.....

Also there is No proof of God being Skyfather any more than he is Sise-Neg.

After all what does Sise-Neg spell backwards? Geneisis, the very blatant Judeo Christian Bible Theme. Add to this it is cannon he remade the Universe and all the Multiverses that sprouted from it ......... Just saying the Obvious to me.

To say with certainty God in Ghost Rider, Tomb of Dracula, and Son of Satan comics is a Sky Father is just a showing of Bias by Thor fans.

Why does he have to be Sky Father? Its all Opinion. So try not to state it as fact one way or the other.

There is thousand of possible explanations. No real facts but the feats.

I will say this. This God made his own Galaxy like Dimension for the Ghost Rider Spirits.

That much is shown on panel.

He did make Heaven, and Hell that Lucifer rules as a fallen angel. we know Uriel the Angel and Kazaar the Fallen Angel are equal to Mephisto power level.

Im just saying IMO he rates higher than a Sky Father who is really limited to earth and earth only in worship and power. Asgard alone was the size of... what? Oklahoma?

#14 Edited by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

In short, this 'god" could well likely be above the likes of a sky father, however still not TOAA. Typically if this were any significant cosmic event, we would of a least seen some major cosmic players, whether it be the Celestials, Galactus, eternity, phoenix or perhaps even the living tribunal.. . plenty of low tier characters have caused universal effects. Spiderman with the beyonders powers remade creation all within what a fraction of a second?

The fact that it has been established that cube beings are well below Celestials, one could assume that someones of Franklin's power could easily dispatch someone like GR ( by that application). You stated that God made his own GR dimension, apparently galaxy sized. Franklin as a child created his own pocket universe, see what I mean? I would expect much more. Moreover, Sis-neg seems to be nothing more than a play on words, take it with a grain of salt. If we were talking about DC, then I would easily agree with the forward statements given how the Judeo-Christian god is the Presence, however this is Marvel.

The characters affiliated with this story line hardly even appear to be of cosmic significance. Unless you want to make the argument that Marvel's angels > Living tribunal, Eternity ect ( which is DEFINITELY) because we know Hellord's are essentially miniscules in the cosmic hierarchy ( for the most part). it's been shown that HTOU is essentially TOAA's power, did Zadkiel acquire such an instrument? in short they have done nothing to suggest they're on par with the said abstracts/entities. T

his manifestation of "god' has not done anything to suggest he is essentially TOAA. Even Odin has been stated as the maker of creation, or even the "all-father" despite the fact that WE KNOW it is not true. Hey may be higher than your typical high father, however, this manifestation I can safely say is not TOAA. GR's immunity has not been tested against higher up beings. and i reckon Ma

d Jim Jaspers would have quite the time with GR. Pretty much my point is that GR's immunity may only apply to his specific domain. Many times characters claim to be immune to certain effect, and even demonstrate so, however when a more powerful characters is introduced to the scene, essentially it changes everything. However I don't think there is enough emphasis on this God to make many conclusions, however i feel very strongly that GR's immunity may not hold over all.

#15 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wait are you trying to say Ghost Rider's god is Sies-Neg , because in reverse it spells Genesis?? That sounds like a very reaching approach. I could just as easily say its likely its the english version of (Sheshnag) which happens to be hindu god.

Also Gensis means creation , even PR beyonder was called god before Genesis.

Also not sure you knew, Sies-Neg actually doesnt do anything. His point was to go back at the point of creation (i.e. the big bang) and re-create the universe in his image (the universe was always going to be created out of big bang, his plan was just to change it), but he goes to the point of big bang, and doesnt change it.

So he actually doesnt really do anything, thats in fact backed by the only bio he appears in as well.

Besides i though we talked about it in the other thread, i mean we have the fight between Odin and Surtur being the reason why earth actually has moon. And we also know the creator of ALL life on earth is Demuirge, called the creator, as backed by every Elder God bio, as well as at least 3 issue.

So those feats actually goes here and there to be honest.

#16 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_insignia1: Odin being called ALL Father and the creator of universe is most likely true because after Ymir was killed Odin re-made asgardia pocket universe with his power. Its the size of a us continent, tiny, but its his dimension that he is attributed to essentially (re)making.

#17 Edited by russellmania77 (15019 posts) - - Show Bio

idk who would win

#18 Edited by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

@x_insignia1: Odin being called ALL Father and the creator of universe is most likely true because after Ymir was killed Odin re-made asgardia pocket universe with his power. Its the size of a us continent, tiny, but its his dimension that he is attributed to essentially (re)making.

Ah, so the all father statement was reference to the Asgardian universe and not the actual 616 correct? these events due heavily deal with context, so that makes sense.

#19 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_insignia1: yep. They have their own little universe, with Ymir being the first being, Odin being the creator (more apt the re-creator) of the universe, and ragnarok being the end of the universe with Surtur fulfilling his last role of burning the universe in cinder.

In contrast, we know 616 universe dies in a big crunch, followed by a big bang, with a death of Eternity followed by Rebirth, and the great cycle continues.

Similar setting to 616, just smaller exposure.

#20 Edited by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_insignia1: yep. They have their own little universe, with Ymir being the first being, Odin being the creator (more apt the re-creator) of the universe, and ragnarok being the end of the universe with Surtur fulfilling his last role of burning the universe in cinder.

In contrast, we know 616 universe dies in a big crunch, followed by a big bang, with a death of Eternity followed by Rebirth, and the great cycle continues.

Similar setting to 616, just smaller exposure.

yeah which is why i find the event with GR's God so ambiguous ya know? considering the settings and who's all involved.

That's why i'm so reluctant to actually believe GR's immunity carries over to the other cosmics.

#21 Posted by russellmania77 (15019 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#22 Posted by WWQ7 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanda

#23 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

No more ghost riders!

#24 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_insignia1: I think your looking way too deep in my statements. I am not some "Hail Jesus" on the side of the street guy.

The Facts are facts and Franklin Pocket Universe is just that, a Pocket Verse. A Tiny Pocket Verse vs a actual Galaxy Size Dimension. That is not including Heaven or the fact God made Earth the balance in all the cosmos according to Son of Satan Comics.

My points stand that this God of GR, SoS, and ToD comics is higher than Sky Father by a margine base of feats of his Minnions power level and scope of his Creations.

@killemall: Sise Neg being God is no more a stretch than you and others thrying to claim some no name, showed once in a one comic, weaker than Odin Yahweh.

That is a stretch when Yahweh is the head of the Bronze Age Canaanite pantheon, thus nowhere near the same God that Muslims, Christains and Jews (Who stole the name for their God's name) God.

Im just saying it is all what you want to believe.

On this Marvel Comic Odin and Thor rates highest followed closely by Galactus and Giant Space Robots the Celestials.

I choose the lesser popular Religious theme Comics.

#25 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Sise Neg being God is no more a stretch than you and others thrying to claim some no name, showed once in a one comic, weaker than Odin Yahweh.

I am not sure i understand, my understanding of God in GR comics being likely a skyfather is based on:

1. Marvel has a pantheon of every religion with their own skyfather as the god, who have been called omnipotent and all power.

2. God resides in heaven, much like Odin resides in Asgard (Norse heaven), Zeus in Olympus (Greek Heaven), Vishnu in their own heaven (no idea what its called).

3. I dont recall even picking a name, Yahweh probably isnt the god you are thinking about, and i actually recall someone posting a power grid on formspring with the marvel cosmic hierarchy

Under the heaven section god was named EL, no idea who he is.

Im just saying it is all what you want to believe.

On this Marvel Comic Odin and Thor rates highest followed closely by Galactus and Giant Space Robots the Celestials.

I choose the lesser popular Religious theme Comics.

Well there are a whole bunch of people beyond Odin , Galactus and Celestials though, but thats a different topic to argue.

BTW Franklin did create a full fledged universe during Hickman run, and used that to revive Galactus, he has also during Daydreamers 1-3 created a nexus to all reality although with help of Man Thing's power.

#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@killemall: Sise Neg being God is no more a stretch than you and others thrying to claim some no name, showed once in a one comic, weaker than Odin Yahweh.

I am not sure i understand, my understanding of God in GR comics being likely a skyfather is based on:

1. Marvel has a pantheon of every religion with their own skyfather as the god, who have been called omnipotent and all power.

2. God resides in heaven, much like Odin resides in Asgard (Norse heaven), Zeus in Olympus (Greek Heaven), Vishnu in their own heaven (no idea what its called).

3. I dont recall even picking a name, Yahweh probably isnt the god you are thinking about, and i actually recall someone posting a power grid on formspring with the marvel cosmic hierarchy

Under the heaven section god was named EL, no idea who he is.

Im just saying it is all what you want to believe.

On this Marvel Comic Odin and Thor rates highest followed closely by Galactus and Giant Space Robots the Celestials.

I choose the lesser popular Religious theme Comics.

Well there are a whole bunch of people beyond Odin , Galactus and Celestials though, but thats a different topic to argue.

BTW Franklin did create a full fledged universe during Hickman run, and used that to revive Galactus, he has also during Daydreamers 1-3 created a nexus to all reality although with help of Man Thing's power.

1) Pantheon Religion is completely different from Modern Religion. God is no Skyfather of Gods. He is the one and Only. He is the same god of the top 3 Religions in the world. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all share the same God mostly same views.

In GR Comics the last 2 Major Religions are Hindu and Buddhist and both those Religions worship God as well. Makes sense as Hinduism actually has a branch where Christian God was adapted into it as the main God. Buddhist also adopted God in their Branch offs to convert Straight Christians.

The point is all Sky Fathers are represented by Dead Religions that no one worships anymore and alot of power lost lost to lack of worship. Meanwhile Modern God concept of the 5 main Religions in the world thrives. That alone makes me believe this God is above Sky Father and not a Skyfather due to not having any other God Heads to lead. Ontop of this this Gods Realm of Heaven, Hell, and Ghost Rider Dimension is all larger than anything Odin created in scope.

2) Vishnu is believe in alot of modern Hinduism to be the main God thanks to Christian influence as the worlds biggest religion. Just saying...

3) I have no clue what that crap is, but is it totaly unofficial and wrong. Also El was the orginal Jewish name for God before Yahweh was adpated from the Canaanite God Head Pantheon.

4) All true and again I am not saying this God is the OAA or anything, just much higher than Odin IMO base on feats and his lowest minions feats/stated power.

5) As for Franklin, he made this Pocket verse and poured years worth of power into it to re empower Galactus, also being equal to a Celestial as stated and show means just that. Franklin is no better than Green Phoenix, Starving Galactus, or Odin IMO. The kid was originaly captured by Mephisto before breaking out and being the Innocent Soul he was obliterate Mephisto as all Innocent souls have done. Not even killing Mephisto, just temporary blew his essence apart.... ooooh ahhhhh......

Franklin like House of M Wanda is highly overated and inconsistent with "Average" Showings.

#27 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio


1) Pantheon Religion is completely different from Modern Religion. God is no Skyfather of Gods. He is the one and Only. He is the same god of the top 3 Religions in the world. Christians, Jews, and Muslims all share the same God mostly same views.

In GR Comics the last 2 Major Religions are Hindu and Buddhist and both those Religions worship God as well. Makes sense as Hinduism actually has a branch where Christian God was adapted into it as the main God. Buddhist also adopted God in their Branch offs to convert Straight Christians.

The point is all Sky Fathers are represented by Dead Religions that no one worships anymore and alot of power lost lost to lack of worship. Meanwhile Modern God concept of the 5 main Religions in the world thrives. That alone makes me believe this God is above Sky Father and not a Skyfather due to not having any other God Heads to lead. Ontop of this this Gods Realm of Heaven, Hell, and Ghost Rider Dimension is all larger than anything Odin created in scope.

Thats just not true man given one of the sky father is Vishnu, which happens to be Hindu god, you dont believe people follow that religion :p , talk to CitizenBane, or PrinceAragon, or number of people here whol are from indian subcontinent.

So at the moment it seem like a bit biased interpretation.

Also what has realm being bigger than Asgard have to do with anything, if we go that route, Asgard has connection to 9 different realms of its own, how many realms does GR god have. Hell, Heaven and a dimension of Ghost Rider, 3.

I dont think the size of the dimension has anything to do with power, the size of Olympus is a LOT smaller than every other pantheon, making them the weakest power which is not true.

2) Vishnu is believe in alot of modern Hinduism to be the main God thanks to Christian influence as the worlds biggest religion. Just saying...

I dont get this part, Vishnu has very little connection to Christinity, and Vishnu isnt the main god in hindu religion it would be Brahman, which sort of is like the creator, and followed by 3 gods with same power level Brahma, Vishu and Shiva (something Bane told me earlier, not much into religion he might be able to explain better).

3) I have no clue what that crap is, but is it totaly unofficial and wrong. Also El was the orginal Jewish name for God before Yahweh was adpated from the Canaanite God Head Pantheon.

I know its unofficial, but sounds pretty accurate potrayal, thats all i was saying, i wasnt trying to make a case out of it.

4) All true and again I am not saying this God is the OAA or anything, just much higher than Odin IMO base on feats and his lowest minions feats/stated power.

I dont have a problem thinking Ghost is above Odin although this is what surprised me. Once you say stated power, Odin has on panel and in bio called omnipotent, so you wont have a stated power over that.

But i am surprised you are saying minions of Gods from GR comics has better feat that Odin, that doesnt sound remotely true. What feats are you referring to?

5) As for Franklin, he made this Pocket verse and poured years worth of power into it to re empower Galactus, also being equal to a Celestial as stated and show means just that. Franklin is no better than Green Phoenix, Starving Galactus, or Odin IMO. The kid was originaly captured by Mephisto before breaking out and being the Innocent Soul he was obliterate Mephisto as all Innocent souls have done. Not even killing Mephisto, just temporary blew his essence apart.... ooooh ahhhhh......

Franklin like House of M Wanda is highly overated and inconsistent with "Average" Showings.

The bolded and underlined part is outright misrepresentation and i know i corrected you before on this.

Franklin was put a psychic barrie on his head to prevent him from using his power, that was because he was too powerful as kid to hold that kind of power. It was Franklin in that state that was captured by Mephisto, something which was said clear as day on panel.

Secondly when Franklin beats Mephisto, there is absolutely no mention of pure soul or anything, in fact Mr. Franklin as well as Mephisto are clearly referring to his power, so i dont see what to say.

HOM Wanda isnt really over-rated:

1. She tore apart from omniverse. You can say 1610 was affected, but thats explained by the fact that Meggan in HOM , tapping into the power of Earth + Otherworld (nexus of ALL realities in the multiverse) + Beyond (realm of Beyonder where cosmic cube energy comes to out dimension) halted the chaos wave and reality healed itself, pretty clearly on panel there. Also it woulnt be the first time a chronology is being ignored in Marvel, that still doesnt change the validity of feat, clearly as day shown and demonstrated on panel.

2. We see at the very least 5 realities wipe out of existence.

3.We see a couple of dead people brought back to life. I.e. Mad Jampes Jasper.

4. We have Wanda subconciously being able to drag Dormammu from his realm, which is beyond 6th dimension, to forefully come to earth, without being weakened, when:

a. Dormammu vowed never to come to earth before

b. Dormammu gets weakened when he comes to earth because of the vow.

5. She gave Genis Vell so much power he was blinking entire universe in and out of existence.

I mean serious, yeah she did not have control over the power, but she did have some insane showing of actual power that drawfs anything Zadkiel did during Heavens on Fire, by some order of magnitude.

#28 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

Thats just not true man given one of the sky father is Vishnu, which happens to be Hindu god, you dont believe people follow that religion :p , talk to CitizenBane, or PrinceAragon, or number of people here whol are from indian subcontinent.

So at the moment it seem like a bit biased interpretation.

Bias my *** :) This is the facts from my world Religion class. Hinduism is not a set faith with set rules and set gods. It is a constant changing faith base more on Philosophical interpretation than anything. It been around so long because it adapts new religions into it self.

That is a fact.

Also what has realm being bigger than Asgard have to do with anything, if we go that route, Asgard has connection to 9 different realms of its own, how many realms does GR god have. Hell, Heaven and a dimension of Ghost Rider, 3.

Who is stronger? The guy who can only build Asgard that barely covers Oklahoma? Or the Guy who makes Galaxy size Dimensions?

I take the Latter.

Also you forgot Limbo which also God created as per Ghost Rider..... so 4......

I dont think the size of the dimension has anything to do with power, the size of Olympus is a LOT smaller than every other pantheon, making them the weakest power which is not true.

I do. A guy who can only build a small house before calling it quits to a guy who built a mansion before calling it quits. Who is the better builder here?

I dont get this part, Vishnu has very little connection to Christinity, and Vishnu isnt the main god in hindu religion it would be Brahman, which sort of is like the creator, and followed by 3 gods with same power level Brahma, Vishu and Shiva (something Bane told me earlier, not much into religion he might be able to explain better).

That is true. I dont care for Hinduism and cannot keep up the thousand of Gods they have made and forgotten from my classes.

All I know for a fact is they have adopted Christianity into there religion and GR comic by Aaron reflects this.

I know its unofficial, but sounds pretty accurate potrayal, thats all i was saying, i wasnt trying to make a case out of it.

Alright then.

I dont have a problem thinking Ghost is above Odin although this is what surprised me. Once you say stated power, Odin has on panel and in bio called omnipotent, so you wont have a stated power over that.

But i am surprised you are saying minions of Gods from GR comics has better feat that Odin, that doesnt sound remotely true. What feats are you referring to?

Meohitso has been stated Omnipotent as has Galactus and as has Phoenix. None of it is true.

Simply Gods feat of creation, which is Gods power in general.

I posted a whole thread on his feats before. you disagreed then too.

https://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/marvel-god-and-heaven-vs-marvel-asgard-and-odin-1454514/

Marvel Gods feats of creation seem a hell a lot more than Odins. that is all I am saying.

The bolded and underlined part is outright misrepresentation and i know i corrected you before on this.

Franklin was put a psychic barrie on his head to prevent him from using his power, that was because he was too powerful as kid to hold that kind of power. It was Franklin in that state that was captured by Mephisto, something which was said clear as day on panel.

Secondly when Franklin beats Mephisto, there is absolutely no mention of pure soul or anything, in fact Mr. Franklin as well as Mephisto are clearly referring to his power, so i dont see what to say.

You never countered the fact that Mephisto is weak to innocent souls to the point he is powerless. A child in most of Christain faith is innocent till they lose all their baby teeth (or simply reach puberty) and Child is like what... 8 years old? Sounds like Mephisto could take Adult Franklin to me.

Nothing you will say will counter the fact Mephisto is weak to Innocnet/Pure souls like the Human Roxane, Black Panther Spirit, Thor Spirit, Silver Surfer Spirit, ect. always been a weak point and Mephisto even felt he could take Frabklin at first.

The point is we will agree to disagree. Franklin could not one shot the 3 Celestials with his power and he had to save all his power to bring back a Starving Galactus. He is overrated. Nowhere near Mad Jim Jaspers level. That is my stance.

HOM Wanda isnt really over-rated:

1. She tore apart from omniverse. You can say 1610 was affected, but thats explained by the fact that Meggan in HOM , tapping into the power of Earth + Otherworld (nexus of ALL realities in the multiverse) + Beyond (realm of Beyonder where cosmic cube energy comes to out dimension) halted the chaos wave and reality healed itself, pretty clearly on panel there. Also it woulnt be the first time a chronology is being ignored in Marvel, that still doesnt change the validity of feat, clearly as day shown and demonstrated on panel.

2. We see at the very least 5 realities wipe out of existence.

3.We see a couple of dead people brought back to life. I.e. Mad Jampes Jasper.

4. We have Wanda subconciously being able to drag Dormammu from his realm, which is beyond 6th dimension, to forefully come to earth, without being weakened, when:

a. Dormammu vowed never to come to earth before

b. Dormammu gets weakened when he comes to earth because of the vow.

5. She gave Genis Vell so much power he was blinking entire universe in and out of existence.

I mean serious, yeah she did not have control over the power, but she did have some insane showing of actual power that drawfs anything Zadkiel did during Heavens on Fire, by some order of magnitude.

I underline the main point. She has NO Control. As it stand to me she is no better than a child flapping widely with a gun vs a grown man using his hands. Can the kid one shot him? Yes, however the odds are slim of hitting that guy when they fire with thier eyes close.

Point is she was overated in Battle Threads as she has no control over her power in House of M.

Again IMO. No one is changing that.

#29 Edited by russellmania77 (15019 posts) - - Show Bio

wow you guys are writing a book

#30 Edited by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

Bias my *** :) This is the facts from my world Religion class. Hinduism is not a set faith with set rules and set gods. It is a constant changing faith base more on Philosophical interpretation than anything. It been around so long because it adapts new religions into it self.

That is a fact.

This is not true at all.

Hindisum has branches within itself because there are 3 over-arching gods born from the creator.

They have fixed books. Holy book that just dont change from time to time.

Main point was: if you see a religion such as Hinduism as any lesser than Christianity, your are being extremely biased.

Who is stronger? The guy who can only build Asgard that barely covers Oklahoma? Or the Guy who makes Galaxy size Dimensions?

I take the Latter.

Also you forgot Limbo which also God created as per Ghost Rider..... so 4......

If creating the realm were their only feat perhaps which obviously is not true. And Asgardia is the size of US continent not Oklahoma, that would be city of Asgard. Thats not including how it is connected to other realms.

Having a bigger domain isnt a be all and end all.

Limbo is a pocket dimension.

I do. A guy who can only build a small house before calling it quits to a guy who built a mansion before calling it quits. Who is the better builder here?

The logic would be true if there was a race going on among the gods as to who can build a bigger realm, thats not the case.

And its not a competition of who builds a bigger realm, they each shaped their realm however they felt like.

Thats just over-reaching.

Meohitso has been stated Omnipotent as has Galactus and as has Phoenix. None of it is true.

Simply Gods feat of creation, which is Gods power in general.

I posted a whole thread on his feats before. you disagreed then too.

https://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/marvel-god-and-heaven-vs-marvel-asgard-and-odin-1454514/

Marvel Gods feats of creation seem a hell a lot more than Odins. that is all I am saying.

1. Not sure if you got what i was trying to say, you said people had better statements than Odin, i said Odin has been said omnipotent , there cant be better statement that it.

2. I was a part of that thread, and i did not agree with you then , i do not agree with you now. My question as you claim his minions had better feats than Odin, i am asking which feat are you talking about.

You never countered the fact that Mephisto is weak to innocent souls to the point he is powerless. A child in most of Christain faith is innocent till they lose all their baby teeth (or simply reach puberty) and Child is like what... 8 years old? Sounds like Mephisto could take Adult Franklin to me.

Nothing you will say will counter the fact Mephisto is weak to Innocnet/Pure souls like the Human Roxane, Black Panther Spirit, Thor Spirit, Silver Surfer Spirit, ect. always been a weak point and Mephisto even felt he could take Frabklin at first.

The point is we will agree to disagree. Franklin could not one shot the 3 Celestials with his power and he had to save all his power to bring back a Starving Galactus. He is overrated. Nowhere near Mad Jim Jaspers level. That is my stance.

There is nothing to counter, because when Franklin Power were dampned, mephisto at that time has no problem with his soul. Once his power is awaken, Mephisto all of a sudden has a problem with his soul?? And then something like that is convinently not in either issue or the bio??

Come on man, thats just you trying to glorify a clear as day deat.

Mephisto though he could take Franklin, and was suprised by kid power and got stomped, what exactly am i missing.

Franklin is more of less equal to a Celestial, that contradicts you trying to say he is weaker than Mephisto.

MJJ doesnt really have feats, its just a lot of potential, and thats all. Also i did not even once mention MJJ in my argument.

I underline the main point. She has NO Control. As it stand to me she is no better than a child flapping widely with a gun vs a grown man using his hands. Can the kid one shot him? Yes, however the odds are slim of hitting that guy when they fire with thier eyes close.

Point is she was overated in Battle Threads as she has no control over her power in House of M.

Again IMO. No one is changing that.

Never disagreed her lack of control, if you even look back at the Ghost rider vs Scarlet Witch thread, i was the one to point that out.

And then you are going a little too wild with your supposition.

#31 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: OK, done with this.

Your debating me at this point when I state merely what I learn from Class. You have a problem with it, take it up with the college book.

As far as Odin vs Marvel God, I stated the feats that lead me to Believe God is greater. It not worth the debate as there is no solid proof or statement on either side about the other.

Just preference of going with the less popular to following the more popular.

Not worth a debate that has no answers.

#32 Posted by russellmania77 (15019 posts) - - Show Bio

bump