Scarlet Spiders vs Spider Mans

VS

Kaine, Ben Reilly, Ultimate Jessica vs Peter Parker, May Parker, Miles Morals

Death or KO.

In character.

Pre Secret Wars gear for all. Standard gear.

Going Spider Men, Venom Sting After all :)

Tough call. Peter and Kaine depends how often Kaine decides to use his stealth suit. I still think Peter has a slight edge in character. I think I'll side with team 2 with Peter as the MVP. May vs Ben is a good fight, and I think Miles has improved (I still don't have a high opinion of his combat skills but he's gotten better) so he might be able to split with Jessica. I might give Ben a slight edge on MIles, and maybe May over Jessica due to her extra powers. Kaine would defeat either May or Miles IMO. Peter is the only one I see not losing unless Kaine abuses his stealth suit.

I can see a case either way though. Like 80% of the possible are debatable here.

Why only a slight edge? Hasn't he stalemated Peter in the past?

@juiceboks: He stalemated Peter in the 70's. Peter stomped him in the clone saga when he was enraged (Ben wasn't to be fair). There was another fight where Ben and the New Warriors tried to stop Peter while he was being controlled by the Jackal IIRC and Peter seemed to have the upper hand there from what I remember (Peter never won since the fight didn't conclude, but Ben failed to stop him from reaching Mary Jane even with backup from the new warriors, Peter just over came the Jackals programming through will power).

Ben is Peter's equal stat wise but I rank Peter even without his way of the spider training ahead of Ben.

*men

I hope people wont overrate the venom sting from Miles, especially from that Blackheart crap.

I just wanted to say, I was really pleased the treatment Jessica got in Spider Verse.

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In issues 1 and 2 of Scarlet Spider we see she is extremely well train from both Ultimate Fury and Cap as a SHIELD agent. Fighting with a cool tactical mind than the intuition of Ben or aggressive and power of Kaine. In issue 2 we are shown she was the leader of the group, making the plans, and strategies, with Kaine and Reilly following her.

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We also see her defeating by herself Human Torch, and right after that fight take a thrashing from Jennix, a Inheritor, to buy time for Ben, and then after the fight and thrashing still good enough to save Kaine.

I also love what Ben says about her.

I was very happy with Scarlet Spiders.

@sirfizzwhizz: Those are all really good feats but it should be noted Genix was the weakest (physically) of the inheritors.

He still wrecked Ben Reilly and wore down a holding back Other Kaine.

I was just saying.

If this is pre-secret wars gear, Peter still has cryogenic pellets, magnetic webbing, anti-metal, etc. Spider-Men should win pretty handily.

Problem is standard gear. I know people like to use this argument, but how many times has he ever used it or even shown to have it? Anything used one time only is not really considered standard gear.

Peter stated he carried all of that with him, except the anit-metal. That isn't standard gear. The reason Peter didn't use all of that tech a lot was because Peter was forgetful of his tech. All though he did use most of that stuff more than once.

Which still begs the question, in character as stated why would he used tech that he never used more than one time in his whole run with it now? I think a argument for Kaine going Other is more acceptable than peter using gear in this fight he simply never uses.

I dont get why people bring it up as its simply not a factor in his battles other than specific plot point wins.

Well I agree it isn't very relevant in this battle. I'm just saying it is standard gear. I only ever bring it up when Peter is facing someone like Clayface or something.

@jashro44: clay face would make sense as a Peter would know he cannot win otherwise. I can buy that.

@sirfizzwhizz: Well, if it turns out that he is losing, then he'll probably start using it. Otherwise, probably not.

Peter was taking Venom blast good enough so Kaine will also. If he wanted to, Kaine could solo.

No way is Kaine soloing. I agree Peter took the first venom sting (I think Peter was faking to lure Miles in close) but the second one did knock him out. Maybe kaine can take it, but I think we need to be fair to the spiders here.

@jashro44: Can Kaine transform into the Other in this fight? Because if he can, he stomps.

I agree Kaine would stomp if he gave into the other. All though Kaine has no reason to transform into the other. He's fighting someone who he looks up to, and respects to the point where he was willing to die for Peter in Grim Hunt. I don't think Miles or May will give Kaine an incentive to turn into the other either, there only kids.

@jashro44: I don't know. He is really crazy LOL.

I wouldn't say Kaine is crazy. And while he can be brutal he still has some degree of morals.

@jashro44: Yeah, I know. That is why I said LOL. But I think Scarlet Spiders win.

Well why do you think the scarlet spiders win? I think everyone kind of matches up evenly but I think Peter is the MVP of this fight slightly.

good fight either way.

@jashro44: Kaine is faster, more durable, has sting of Kaine, he can control Spiders, has better healing factor and can lift up to 60 tons

Kaine isn't significantly faster. He is more durable but Peter knows pressure points which can come in handy. The mark of Kaine isn't likely going to be used and neither will Kaines stingers. I don't think controlling spiders will be helpful and Kaines healing factor isn't really better. What makes you say Kaine is a 60 tonner?

@jashro44:

Superhuman Strength: Like Peter Parker, Kaine possesses superhuman strength. Initially, his strength is different to Spider-Man's, and he could lift approximately 40 tons. Over time and further mutation, Kaine's physical strength has dramatically increased to the point of being able to lift up to 60 tons. He has proven to be able to beat the Rhino unconscious and hold his own against Peter Parker, Ben Reilly, and Spidercide at the same time. Following his reset of powers from being cured of his degeneration, along with embracing the Other, it is assumed his strength level is roughly around class 20, different to when Peter had joined with the Other. When fully transformed into the Other, Kaine's strength is comparable to that of a Class 100 superhuman, as he was shown able to fight three Inheritors - Morlun, Daemos, and Solus - at once and kill the latter with relative ease. His strength extends into his powerful leg muscles, allowing him to leap heights and distances in excess of human capability. Unlike Peter Parker, Kaine generally has no restraints on using his super-strength against enemies with typical human durability, and as such, is capable of severely injuring enemies with normal attacks. During his fight against Spider-Man (Otto Octavius), Octavius stated that Kaine is noticeably stronger than him.

@krleavenger: I'm not sure what your source is for this info but it says after spider-island it is assumed his strength level is "class 20" meaning he isn't a 60 tonner assuming there using the same scale that Marvel uses.

@jashro44: Well. The thing is, of he needs to, he can transform into the Other. And he doesn't need to. Ben and can fight Peter, can beat May or Miles,because he is like Peter. Jessica can beat Miles and May (She can't beat Peter but She doesn't need to fight him). Kaine can take out anyone of these guys. In my opinion, Miles will be the first one WHO will be taken out. He doesn't know how to fight.

Kaine isn't transforming into the other in character.

Ben isn't Peter. Peter has had a higher quality of experiences over all and even prior to Peters way of the spider training Peter was better than Ben.

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And again fighting Ben when Ben had back up from the new warriors:

http://imgur.com/a/DdCcm

And Peter has only improved further since the 90's. Miles has improved a lot since his inexperienced days. He might lose but he isn't getting stomped. Same deal with May.

Debatable. I think May has a good shot against Jessica. She should be faster and has better spider-sense. They shouldn't be far apart strength wise. Plus May has other powers.

I disagree. Kaine's best combat feat is stomping SpOck. Peter did the same thing, only he was physically weakened from having his life drained by Morlun while he did it. Kaine's durability is a problem but Peter's way of the spider is very effective against people with spider-powers.

That is possible. All though Miles has gotten a bit better. He's defeated ultimate green goblin, and he was able to dance around ultimate Doom. Not sure if he is going that so easily.

@sirfizzwhizz: That art is absolutely stunning.

I'm giving it to second team. Peter is mvp and wouldn't lose to anyone here. Mayday could hold her own as well.

@jashro44: You are right about everything you said. I never really ment Ben is like Peter I just mention that because in my opinion he can still take out Miles or May. The other thing is I never said Miles gets stomped. Also the only reason why he defeted Ultimate Green Goblin so easily was because of his Venom blasts,who are effecting people with altered DNA much more than normal humans (with gives him the advantage because Kaine is also altered). Maybe I can give more information about something but I have to go. You are a guy a person can talk to, not like many other people on Vine.

Thank you.

@jashro44: IMO May is better than Jessica but only due to the magnetic powers. I see no proof of being faster, and having better spider sense I guess which is not quantifiable be another anyway.

Jessica however has natural webbing from all ten fingers, unlimited webbing, and higher in skill and tactics as seen in the Scarlet Spider run. She also pretty much lead the Ultimate Team after Galactus, which is funny as Kitty Pride has more leadership feats but submitted to Jessica as leader.

Well we know May is faster than her Dad. You can argue since May is from another universe her dad doesn't have the same feats as 616 spider-man but I feel the point is she is suppose to be faster than 616 spider-man, all though I guess its fair if you disagree. As for spider-sense her spider-sense actually lets her sense weak points in stuff so we do have proof its better than Jessicas. Its much more advanced.

Well that's all well in good but May has impact webbing, and she has been trained by Elektra I believe so not sure if Jessica's skill is higher. Her being a leader is all well in good but it wont help her against May.

@jashro44:

Like you said, all Spider Mans are not equal on speed, and May faster than her father is not much. We do know Miles is casual Milisecond on speed and Jessica is arguably faster as being older Peter Clone and more skilled.

Electra training is good, but again a featless What If Electra means little. At least Ultimate Cap and Fury have feats of skill, as well statements. On top of this in the Scarlet Spider comics we see first hand how she breaks down in a brief fight Bens and Kaines skill, while pulling her weight with inferior stats with skill. Add to this Jessica has all the combat experience and memeroies of Ultimate Peter, half his comic run anyway, and has face greater threats than May has over all IMO.

I'm not going to argue the impact webbing other than Jessica has way better web Incap feats with her webbing, and does not run out.

Still May takes the slightest edge thanks to her gear and magnetic powers, as well spider sense finding "weak points", but May can likely lose a few matches out of ten.

Is there actual proof Jessica is faster than Miles? He recently had a feat that was supposedly a microsecond level feat (According to iron man at least).

Honestly I don't really know enough about May to really refute much of this. I agree Jessica can win a few I just give May the majority.

@jashro44: Jessica moved so fast that Miles never saw her move in their first encounter. Jessica also has proven faster than a blood lusted Peter when she was first born. She also has a speed feat of reacting, and tagging a super speedster Black Racer where Miles has none. Add in greater skill which as we know gaps speed arguments, I think she is as fast or faster than Miles overall.

Miles was inexperienced a the time and as I've said he has improved a lot since than. Peter was off his game according to Jessica IIRC. I don't know who the Black Racer is so no comment.

@jashro44: Being off your game, and unable to catch or dodge her attacks means little when he been "off his game" against villains and does as well either way. The speed gap inexperience or not, does not close the gap of moving faster than you can see, and we also know all three Ultimate Spiders powers matured with age, meaning Miles was still lower level than either Peter or Jessica honestly.

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1-4 is the Black Racer instance. She was a legit speedster, and just like her 616 counter part who was a speedster, hence the name of the fast snake. She gets the blitz in on jessica in a random, but when Jessica understood how fast she was, she handled her and caught her easy.

5-6 Miles starting out first year still had spider speed. She was just on another level at the time.

7-8 Great example of her in a random encounter fighting two characters stated to have Peters powers. Though great detail was never explain, we know Doctor Doom design to be like Peter, and they were stated to be like Peter in movements, agility, strength, and as noted by Spider Woman, speed. She handled both at first very well though outnumbered, though she was caught off guard by there stats and overpowered. However they mention hos incredibly fast she is to themselves as well.

@cadencev2:

Being off your game, and unable to catch or dodge her attacks means little when he been "off his game" against villains and does as well either way.

Who was he off his game against that he did well against? Regardless the point is he wasn't at his best.

The speed gap inexperience or not, does not close the gap of moving faster than you can see, and we also know all three Ultimate Spiders powers matured with age, meaning Miles was still lower level than either Peter or Jessica honestly.

Looking at your scans it doesn't look like she moved faster than Miles could see. She removed his mask and while he wasn't paying attention she webbed him up.

1-4 is the Black Racer instance. She was a legit speedster, and just like her 616 counter part who was a speedster, hence the name of the fast snake. She gets the blitz in on jessica in a random, but when Jessica understood how fast she was, she handled her and caught her easy.

What can black racer do? Like what level is her super speed?

5-6 Miles starting out first year still had spider speed. She was just on another level at the time.

Addressed above.

7-8 Great example of her in a random encounter fighting two characters stated to have Peters powers. Though great detail was never explain, we know Doctor Doom design to be like Peter, and they were stated to be like Peter in movements, agility, strength, and as noted by Spider Woman, speed. She handled both at first very well though outnumbered, though she was caught off guard by there stats and overpowered. However they mention hos incredibly fast she is to themselves as well.

This is an amazing showing of skill but I don't think it means she is faster. Jessica has training from shield and captain america so her keeping up with 2 guys like this makes sense.

@jashro44: he been "off his game" vs Venom "Genetic legacy and his best friend" Carnage "killed Gwen" and Osborn several times, including death of Spider Man when he was bleeding to death but manage fine in worse conditions and mind set with MJ in the crossfire.

So yes he done well with no lose in preformance to his stats.

The dual spiders is a speed feat as they specifically mention her speed.

Black Racer is simply a super speedster who blitz Kitty (who dealt with several speedsters) and Dagger as well IIRC. We don't have a exact speed other the is a blur of blows to Jessica in their first fight which is impressive enough.

Was Peter actually stated to be off his game against venom and carnage? Regardless that doesn't mean Peter wasn't hindered against them it just means he had a good feat. As for ultimate Norman, again the death of spider-man was just a good feat. That doesn't mean ultimate spider woman is faster than Peter or would stomp him in regular conditions. It just means Peter isn't a push over.

Your right, I reread the issue they did say she was crazy fast. Still I don't know if that makes her faster than Ultimate Peter or Miles. Miles actually beats those guys later on in the next issue (off panel), and did these guys have spider-sense? Regardless have these cyborg dudes fought anyone with spider-like speed before fighting Jessica? It is possible they were taken by surprise by her speed since they weren't use to fighting someone as fast as them. "Crazy fast" could mean that someone actually had the speed to match them for a change. Jessica also mentioned there speed as well, she just got cut off before she could finish her sentence because they punched her out.

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I don't think that is really above ultimate Peter or Miles.

It could go ither way.

@jashro44: imnot sure how he was not off his game when he was freaking out out, raging out, ect in the same way with Spider Woman. In fact even worse in Carnage battle.

... Ummmm... You and I are not on the same page. I'm not arguing Jessica faster than Peter, though I feel she is than year one Miles, but still the argument is to prove she is at least as fast as Miles stated Milisecond. There is more proof her speed above Miles than vice versa currently, and should comfortably be Milisecond speed.

Considering Jessica is IMO above Miles at the time of the feat, and equals with Peter, it is a good feat for Racer to blitz Jessica in the random straight up.

I think this is very interesting. Personally I find Peter the MVP. His skill and improv gives him an edge on Kaine despite the lack of spider-sense. I think Kaine outclasses the other two on Peter's team, but Miles and May both have obscure ace in the hole moves in May's surface-adhesive ability and Venom Stong.

I think Jessica can take Miles due to familiarity and better capability but May I think has the edge over Jess in speed and her cling-crap is such a trump against such mobile fighters.

My gut says too close to call, but there's a nagging feeling there is a slight edge to the Scarlet Spiders...even with Peter as MVP.

@cadencev2:

imnot sure how he was not off his game when he was freaking out out, raging out, ect in the same way with Spider Woman. In fact even worse in Carnage battle.

Alright.

... Ummmm... You and I are not on the same page. I'm not arguing Jessica faster than Peter, though I feel she is than year one Miles, but still the argument is to prove she is at least as fast as Miles stated Milisecond. There is more proof her speed above Miles than vice versa currently, and should comfortably be Milisecond speed.

You originally said Jessica was arguably faster than Miles. I was only disputing that.

Considering Jessica is IMO above Miles at the time of the feat, and equals with Peter, it is a good feat for Racer to blitz Jessica in the random straight up.

OK....