#51 Posted by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Scratch that last statement about Kaine's suit, I just re-read issue 4 of SS and he used it to punch straight through the Hand ninja's skull while invisible.

Now that I think about it, once Kaine has gotten 2-3 surprise strikes in, Logan's blood on his fists or feet will give his strikes away..

#52 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey: Hmm, I was thinking more along the lines of when Logan cuts through the suit, he'll be able to track Kaine by his own blood scent.

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#53 Posted by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: What I meant was that the invisibilty would lose all it's usefulness when Logan can see the blood on him. But yeah, cutting the suit works too.

#54 Posted by God_Spawn (37726 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget:

In the first several issues, yes and even to this point and I'll agree that retains his aggressive physical nature rather than embracing the organic webbing. But my point is that he still knows how to utilize the webbing to his advantage. Is it likely that he can replicate that feat on Logan? Possibly. Will he? It's debatable. As it stands, Logan is a far better hand-to-hand combatant than Kaine as he just prefers to use physicality to his advantage which won't prove fruitful against Logan.

Which is what I'm saying. Kaine's preference for physical is what screws him over here.

I already stated that Kaine's camo suit would be nearly useless in a fight against Logan due to his enhanced sense and he'd have little trouble tracking him via his scent. I think that we can both agree that the reason Peter usually takes an advantage over Logan in their bouts is not because of his superior physicality, but due to his spider-sense and the way he utilizes his webbing. Logan can, without a doubt, tag Kaine and should have no problem keeping up with him or hurting him with his attacks.
My only speculation still stands though. Whether Kaine, in desperation, will resort to depending on his webbing as he did with the Pyro Mexican.

1.) This is basically what I said to Spidey. Kaine just lacks the knack for his webbing that Pete does and if he does use webbing it more often be used to swing Logan in closer or just trip him up or Kaine catapults himself closer. Judging from his fights it would be awhile before the thought of completely cocooning Wolverine would seem to be an option in his mind.

2.) I do think your speculation stands but his preference is clear and it could be too late to use it to gain a majority with his usual habits. Me and Spidey 15 came to the consensus that Kaine would lose to Wolverine in a majority by a slim margin because of his lack of creativity and usage of webbing, I didn't omit your speculation or that fact. We both agreed once Kaine starts utilizing his webbing more or to the degree Peter does, then yes, Logan will lose the majority here.

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#55 Posted by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

Even without the full-on spider sense, Kaine's still got some pretty impressive senses. He did catch that Hand ninja's arrow that was already in mid-flight while his back was turned.

Who do you guys think would be the minimum to have enough of a sheer speed and agility gap to overwhelm Logan's fighting skill?

#56 Posted by jashro44 (20845 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: @Deranged Midget: The stealth suit is only immune to the eyes and ears. Wolverine was actually sniffing Kaine in amazing spider-man 673 iirc.

#57 Edited by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey: Well although the arrow one was good his best feat of speed is this. He knocks a guy to the ground while the bullets are in mid flight and still has the time to get back to his feat AND turn around to use the guy as human shield before the bullets hit him. Now thats some impressive speed/reflexes:

Btw when the hell did Kaine learn Japanese!?

#58 Posted by Ms. Omega (4448 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24 said:

Wolverine rips that Spider dude up.

How?

Wolverines Adamantium.... He should be able to rip his head clean off with those Adamantium blades that he has... Even if Scarlet Spider found a way to KO Wolverine.... Wolve would be back within seconds...

Wolverine 9/10

He doesn't have to knock out or kill him for the win. He can use webbing to hold him.

So you don't think Wolverine being metal can break out of Webbing? Hm Ok... I would say Metal not even half as durable as Wolverines could break out of webbing easily.

Kaine does the same thing to Wolvie as Spiderman did to him in this picture.

#59 Edited by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: He probably learned it while he was running with the Guild. If they have a Hand ninja as a member now, no doubt they had run-ins with them before, as allies or otherwise.

Also just to clarify, I was using the arrow feat as a measure for his senses not his speed. A bow is much quieter than a gun and I was more impressed by how he caught it exactly in the middle of his palms than when he used an opponent's whole body to stop bullets he surely heard were coming.

#60 Edited by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey said:

@Strider92: He probably learned it while he was running with the Guild. If they have a Hand ninja as a member now, no doubt they had run-ins with them before.

Thats just it he didn't actually run with the Guild. They asked him to pay tithe to them and Kaine told them to F off. He was never a member of the Guild he was always running to make sure they didn't catch him.

#61 Posted by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Right, right.. my thoughts must be mixed up a little since it's already quite late where I am..

Does Peter have any experience speaking Japanese? Maybe it's from the implanted memories.

#62 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey: Yeah my first thought was Parker but I don't remember him ever speaking Japanese maybe it'll be explained later. I guess Kaine does have quite a lot of past unaccounted for. Maybe he's a ninja lol!

#63 Posted by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Well, Peter has fought the Hand alongside Daredevil on more than a couple of occasions before that whole cloning business. Not sure why he would want to be speaking with them, but it's a connection.

#64 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@goodguy24 having metal bones dosn't make you stronger

lol what? so you're saying a person with metal bones is just as strong as a regular human with bones and muscles? LOL OK

#65 Posted by gunmetalgrey (1267 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24 said:

lol what? so you're saying a person with metal bones is just as strong as a regular human with bones and muscles? LOL OK

That is exactly correct. The only advantage he would have is that he doesn't need to constantly work out to keep up his strength since moving alone is already enough with his metal-laced bones.

#66 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@gunmetalgrey said:

@goodguy24 said:

lol what? so you're saying a person with metal bones is just as strong as a regular human with bones and muscles? LOL OK

That is exactly correct. The only advantage he would have is that he doesn't need to constantly work out to keep up his strength since moving alone is already enough with his metal-laced bones.

Well thats just like saying a fork lift can lift just as much as a person can. Not true because not only are Fork Lifts metal, but the hydrolics on it can lift a heck of alot more weight and they could tear concrete walls apart which a Human can't do with their bare hands..... Just like they say... Girls are more fragile than Guys..... Being metal would definitly give you alot more strength and power. Especially Adamantium, I would say, but I don't ever recall Wolverine though lifting anything thats worth mentioning really.

#67 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Referring to this?

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#68 Posted by chaos-soul (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24: Wolverine does not have the strength to break the webbing. If he is webbed up into a position where he cannot move his arms to cut the webbing he can be held down. Its happened before.

Wouldn't the webbing have to be stronger than Adamantium to trap Wolverine? I would think so. Their is nothing either that suggest the webbing is strong enough to trap a Guy whos made out of Metal down............. Webbings work just like strongs only they're far more durable to various desgrees, but they arent as durable as chains and Wolverine should be able to break out of chains as well.............................................................................

spider-mans webbing is far more durable than average than chains. and no it does not have to be stronger than the adamantium to hold him. wolverine just doesn not possess the physical strength to break out... well depending on the writer

#69 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos-soul: Thats what I was thinking " The Writers " cause in real life, of course Wolverine would breath out. Heck I would probably break out of those webs... Theirs nothing that suggest how powerful they are really...... So at the end of the day its like you say.

Wolverine only got trapped because thats how the writers wanted the story to go.

#70 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24: Not really those webs have held people consistently stronger than Wolverine. Only 20tonners have been able to consistently rip through them. So thats not really true.

#71 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24: Come on even with bone claws he can rip his head off the question is if he is quick enough to do it cause SS got speed on em.

#72 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine he is faster and stronger and his webbing give him the upper hand

#73 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@goodguy24: Not really those webs have held people consistently stronger than Wolverine. Only 20tonners have been able to consistently rip through them. So thats not really true.

So let me ask you this, if these webs are powerful enough to trap anyone are you saying he could trap Superman, Doomsday, Wonder Woman, Hulk, Thor, Galactus, Godzilla or Zeus?

@CrimsonAlchemist said:

@goodguy24: Come on even with bone claws he can rip his head off the question is if he is quick enough to do it cause SS got speed on em.

Wolverine is fast, but Scarlet Spider seems faster. Wolverine might be able to dodge the attacks and I agree if Wolverine slays him with those Adamantium claws, Scarlet Spider is FINISHED!!!

#74 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24: Vibranium is stronger than Adamantium it's also capable of absorbing energy while Adamantium is just virtually indestructible.

#75 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: The only thing his skeleton does is improve his strength a little but not that much.

#76 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonAlchemist: Vibranium? Never heard of that. Is it a metal?

#77 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Inexperience? Kaine is a killer and has been an assasin before in the past he must know a ton tricks Peter would never use.

#78 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Yea hes was the only person that noticed him.

#79 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33069 posts) - - Show Bio
@goodguy24 said:

@gunmetalgrey said:

@goodguy24 said:

lol what? so you're saying a person with metal bones is just as strong as a regular human with bones and muscles? LOL OK

That is exactly correct. The only advantage he would have is that he doesn't need to constantly work out to keep up his strength since moving alone is already enough with his metal-laced bones.

Well thats just like saying a fork lift can lift just as much as a person can. Not true because not only are Fork Lifts metal, but the hydrolics on it can lift a heck of alot more weight and they could tear concrete walls apart which a Human can't do with their bare hands..... Just like they say... Girls are more fragile than Guys..... Being metal would definitly give you alot more strength and power. Especially Adamantium, I would say, but I don't ever recall Wolverine though lifting anything thats worth mentioning really.

the metal is on his bones not his muscles. All your skeleton does his hold your body up so having metal coated bones would make you more durable not stronger. 
#80 Edited by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonAlchemist: Kaine wasn't a member of the assassins Guild and thus far has exhibited no form of training. I said he is inexperienced because his powerset has changed. I'm not denying he hasn't got fighting experience (he has a hell of a lot) but thats with his old powers. These new ones are different for example he didn't realize he didn't have a spidersense until a bird made him jump.

#81 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@goodguy24 said:

@gunmetalgrey said:

@goodguy24 said:

lol what? so you're saying a person with metal bones is just as strong as a regular human with bones and muscles? LOL OK

That is exactly correct. The only advantage he would have is that he doesn't need to constantly work out to keep up his strength since moving alone is already enough with his metal-laced bones.

Well thats just like saying a fork lift can lift just as much as a person can. Not true because not only are Fork Lifts metal, but the hydrolics on it can lift a heck of alot more weight and they could tear concrete walls apart which a Human can't do with their bare hands..... Just like they say... Girls are more fragile than Guys..... Being metal would definitly give you alot more strength and power. Especially Adamantium, I would say, but I don't ever recall Wolverine though lifting anything thats worth mentioning really.

the metal is on his bones not his muscles. All your skeleton does his hold your body up so having metal coated bones would make you more durable not stronger.

Very good explaination.... Never thought of it like that, but good point cause when you lift something, yeah you're using your bone ( hands ) but its your muscles that give you the power to lift certain weights. Very true.

#82 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24 said:

@Strider92 said:

@goodguy24: Not really those webs have held people consistently stronger than Wolverine. Only 20tonners have been able to consistently rip through them. So thats not really true.

So let me ask you this, if these webs are powerful enough to trap anyone are you saying he could trap Superman, Doomsday, Wonder Woman, Hulk, Thor, Galactus, Godzilla or Zeus?

Did you not read anything I just wrote? I said 20tonners have consistently ripped through it. That means anyone over that strength can to its logic but anyone under that (Wolverine for example) won't.

#83 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Sorry, Misread the comment and I got way ahead of myself cause Superman and the others are far above that strength feat...LOL My fault.

#84 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24: lol no problem

#85 Posted by chaos-soul (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24 said:

@chaos-soul: Thats what I was thinking " The Writers " cause in real life, of course Wolverine would breath out. Heck I would probably break out of those webs... Theirs nothing that suggest how powerful they are really...... So at the end of the day its like you say.

Wolverine only got trapped because thats how the writers wanted the story to go.

well it has been stated before that his webs are stronger than steel iirc. but in rl the silk of a spiders ("the webbing") is incredibly strong. no insect including ("stinger" insects) break the webbing. example a praying mantis caught in a spiders web is trapped and normally cant break free.

#86 Posted by jashro44 (20845 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Yes.

#87 Posted by God_Spawn (37726 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonAlchemist said:

@god_spawn: The only thing his skeleton does is improve his strength a little but not that much.

I know it does but to such an insignificant degree compared to Iron Man that it hardly applies let alone worth mentioning. Even here it doesn't have much worth cause Kaine at least 5-10x stronger than Logan either way.

Moderator
#88 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine.

#89 Posted by JUGGERNAUT_PUNCH (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a big spider Man fan but Kaine doesn't have the experience that Peter has and therefore I think he would make a critical mistake and get himself cut. the no spidersence is a big deal and is what kept spider Man Alive in the previous encounters. hate to say it, but I think Wolverine wins this 1

#90 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6256 posts) - - Show Bio

Webbing = bad news for Wolverine.

I can't see how or why Kaine wouldn't use them. He'd have to be a few sandwiches short of a picnic to engage Wolverine hand to hand in close combat.

If he goes hand to hand for any length of time, Wolverine for a majority. Otherwise, Logan loses to the webs.

Online
#91 Posted by Immortal777 (7362 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Kaine

#92 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII said:

Webbing = bad news for Wolverine.

I can't see how or why Kaine wouldn't use them. He'd have to be a few sandwiches short of a picnic to engage Wolverine hand to hand in close combat.

If he goes hand to hand for any length of time, Wolverine for a majority. Otherwise, Logan loses to the webs.

I agree with this.
Moderator
#93 Posted by sync1 (2960 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24 said:

Wolverine rips that Spider dude up.

How?

Wolverines Adamantium.... He should be able to rip his head clean off with those Adamantium blades that he has... Even if Scarlet Spider found a way to KO Wolverine.... Wolve would be back within seconds...

Wolverine 9/10

How exactly do you expect Logan to tag Kaine? Kaine would easily beat Logan.

#94 Posted by God_Spawn (37726 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24 said:

Wolverine rips that Spider dude up.

How?

Wolverines Adamantium.... He should be able to rip his head clean off with those Adamantium blades that he has... Even if Scarlet Spider found a way to KO Wolverine.... Wolve would be back within seconds...

Wolverine 9/10

How exactly do you expect Logan to tag Kaine? Kaine would easily beat Logan.

No he wouldn't.

Moderator
#95 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24 said:

Wolverine rips that Spider dude up.

How?

Wolverines Adamantium.... He should be able to rip his head clean off with those Adamantium blades that he has... Even if Scarlet Spider found a way to KO Wolverine.... Wolve would be back within seconds...

Wolverine 9/10

How exactly do you expect Logan to tag Kaine? Kaine would easily beat Logan.

I already said what I had to say and I am done with this thread.

People do not @ reply to me on this thread anymore thanks.

#96 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24 said:

Wolverine rips that Spider dude up.

How?

Wolverines Adamantium.... He should be able to rip his head clean off with those Adamantium blades that he has... Even if Scarlet Spider found a way to KO Wolverine.... Wolve would be back within seconds...

Wolverine 9/10

How exactly do you expect Logan to tag Kaine? Kaine would easily beat Logan.

Kaine lacks the spider-sense. Yeah, he's faster than Logan, but Wolvie's skills will allow him to tag him eventually and since Kaine doesn't posses a precog, Logan's skills is a much more deciding factor than it would be otherwise.

:)

#97 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

@spidey 15 said:

@sync1 said:

@goodguy24 said:

@jashro44 said:

@goodguy24 said:

Wolverine rips that Spider dude up.

How?

Wolverines Adamantium.... He should be able to rip his head clean off with those Adamantium blades that he has... Even if Scarlet Spider found a way to KO Wolverine.... Wolve would be back within seconds...

Wolverine 9/10

How exactly do you expect Logan to tag Kaine? Kaine would easily beat Logan.

Kaine lacks the spider-sense. Yeah, he's faster than Logan, but Wolvie's skills will allow him to tag him eventually and since Kaine doesn't posses a precog, Logan's skills is a much more deciding factor than it would be otherwise.

:)

Yes but Kaine is 5 times more faster and stronger he can KO him with one good punch in the face yes ?

#98 Posted by God_Spawn (37726 posts) - - Show Bio

@spawn_123:

Yes but Kaine is 5 times more faster and stronger he can KO him with one good punch in the face yes ?

No, Kaine has no chance at one shotting Wolverine.

Moderator
#99 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@spawn_123:

Yes but Kaine is 5 times more faster and stronger he can KO him with one good punch in the face yes ?

No, Kaine has no chance at one shotting Wolverine.

Why not Kaine is 20 toner

#100 Posted by God_Spawn (37726 posts) - - Show Bio

@spawn_123: Wolverine is too durable. Just because Kaine is x amount of times stronger than Wolverine doesn't mean he can one shot him.

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