Scarlet Spider (Kaine) Vs Ultimate Spider-people

Scarlet Spider

Vs

Ultimate Spider-people

Spider-man (Peter Parker), Spider-man (Miles Morales), Spider-woman

Gallery

• Both teams start on opposite sides of the city. Their objective is to hunt down and beat the opponent/s.
• Morals On
• Standard Gear
• No Prep
• Win by Death, KO or Incap

Location:

Kaine. He's a known murderer in the past, has an upgraded "Other" spider-powers, has claws and very quick to use them.

Ultimate Spidermen are a bunch of kids, Miles maybe doesn't even have webshooters (since he's got Peters, and he's there, so probably they are with him). Ironically, power-wise he actually may have a chance against Scarlet Spider, because of his zap and camo. But Kaine also has stealth suit, and Miles lacks like ten years of growth and experience.

Kaine would utterly murder these children. He's stronger and more powerful then all three combined. As stated above me, he has the experience and fighting prowess they do not. If he is aware that they are kids he may spare them, but they wont exactly be happy about being alive either. Kaine wins, 10/10.

Well as Kaine is now, with morals on, he will try really hard to restrain himself from killing... But some mutilation will occur, no doubts

Kaine is Spiderman+, versus a bunch of hardly trained kids.

Kaine wins 10/10.

Kaine. He's physically superior to all of them and has a lot of experience fighting multiple opponents at the same time including spider-powered ones.

I could probably argue for the Ultimate crew, even I'd still think that Kaine would take a majority.

@CadenceV2

But seeing this guy do it would be more entertaining- since he has more scans and knowledge to handle Ultimate characters.

I'm not sure if it works the same way in the Ultimate Verse...but by 616 canon...the only real advantage the ultimate Spiders would have here, The Spider-Sense, will be rendered useless (except for Miles). Now they are dealing with an opponent that is just as fast as they are, much much Stronger, more vicious, and has more experience in general and fighting Spider-Powered people in specific.

@laflux said:

I could probably argue for the Ultimate crew, even I'd still think that Kaine would take a majority.

@CadenceV2

But seeing this guy do it would be more entertaining- since he has more scans and knowledge to handle Ultimate characters.

I read alot of Ultimate Peter. Nothing on Miles (Upset still they had to do a Minority version of SpiderMan while killing off Peter) and Spider Woman is not that Impressive IMO.

Khain should take this.

@CadenceV2: I still miss Ultimate Pete (I hope they bring him back at some point) although Miles is growing on me.

I maintain that Kaine hasn't done anything to put himself above 616 Peter and his most recent showing against Flash is just more confirmation for me. I think the team has a very good shot here.

@BringnIt said:

I maintain that Kaine hasn't done anything to put himself above 616 Peter and his most recent showing against Flash is just more confirmation for me. I think the team has a very good shot here.

I agree. Also I feel like Kaine was holding back against Anna...I doubt he would go full out against a bunch of kids.

@BringnIt: This isn't 616 Parker. It's Ultimate Parker.

I am aware it's not 616 Parker. I also think Ultimate Peter is inferior to his 616 counterpart, but at the same time it's not by a significant amount. Maybe 80%? Miles has also done very well against 616 Peter and Spider-Woman is a clone to Ultimate Peter. All that said, coupled with Kaine's newfound attitude, I think the team has an excellent chance and isn't being given enough credit by most.

@jashro44 said:

@BringnIt said:

I maintain that Kaine hasn't done anything to put himself above 616 Peter and his most recent showing against Flash is just more confirmation for me. I think the team has a very good shot here.

I agree. Also I feel like Kaine was holding back against Anna...I doubt he would go full out against a bunch of kids.

If they all got to attack him at the same time they might have a shot but under these conditions Kaine will hunt them down and pick them off. The OP says they start at opposite sides of the city and have to hunt each other. This gives Kaine a big advantage due to the fact he can use his "talk to spiders" ability to pinpoint exactly where they are. He managed to find a nuke in Houston in only a few seconds and to my knowledge Houston is bigger than NY. This mean's he'll know exactly where the team is before they even come anywhere near him:

Gallery

Kaine won't even be put in a position where he needs to go all out as he can just track them and use invisibility to pick them off or separate them.

An argument can be made for the Ultimate Spider-men. For one, Kaine lacks a Spider-Sense and in this bout, he has morals so he won't be ripping anyone apart, not that he'd particularly excel at it against these opponents either. While it's evident that he has some form of the "Other" powers, he's done little to prove that he's actually above Peter in regards to physicality. I believe that it's more along the lines that he isn't afraid to utilize brutality against his opponents that people assume he's superior. His advantage here? Organic webbing.

As for Ultimate Peter, I don't necessarily agree that he's far behind 616 Pete in regards to physicality. He might seem weaker and more frail due to being younger and smaller in size, but he did effortlessly smack Osborn with a truck:

Having said that, Peter also has the advantage of having Spider-Sense so if Kaine tried to utilize his suit's camo ability, Peter would be able to detect any on-coming attacks. Now for Miles, he lacks a proper Spider-sense but he makes up for it with his own adaptive camo and the Venom-sting. The team has more than a good chance of distracting Kaine and Pete could give him a fight on his own, but add in that Miles could sneak off and possibly incapacitate Kaine with a Venom sting, the fight would be over.

I'd say the team takes this due to their versatility.

@ChaosMarvel: Kaine needed to concentrate to talk to spiders. If they find him first than he could be the one getting ambushed as he would be busy focusing. And even if e tracks them we don't know if he is immune to the spider-men of the ultimate universes spider-sense. So I don't believe stealth is a option. And I doubt they will split apart.

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

Based off his showing against spider-man it can ko him.

@jashro44 said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

Based off his showing against spider-man it can ko him.

Miles fought 616 Spidey and ko him with the Sting?

wow I really need to pick that Arc up.

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

I doubt it would 1-hit him. Kaine is much more durable than Peter. In one issue he was mindraped and only passed out for a couple of seconds then later in the same issue he was electrified and burnt and didn't pass out at all.

@ChaosMarvel said:

I doubt it would 1-hit him. Kaine is much more durable than Peter. In one issue he was burnt, electrified then mindraped and only passed out for a couple of seconds then later in the same issue he was electrified and burnt again and didn't pass out at all.

Kaine more durable than Peter? That's extremely debatable. Peter has suffered far worse than Kaine has in his current form. The burns barely affected his suit, he's resilient but from such little showing, I don't think he can match up to what Peter has gone through.

Peter has greater durability showings than Kaine does and he's also tanked electricity numerous times. Mind rape doesn't show greater durability, either. That said, their durability is about the same and the stinger did not one-shot Peter, either.

@Deranged Midget: Personally I don't think Kaine is more durable than Pete but just more tolerant to pain. We've seen Kaine a take a bullet without any sign of discomfort. Pete is good at dodging but I seem to remember him not being particularly great when he took a full on shot. I can see why people think Kaine is more durable but to me it seems like he just he doesn't care about the pain more than anything else. I'm guessing something like a gunshot wound or venom-strike pales in comparison to the pain of cellular degeneration.

@CadenceV2 said:

@jashro44 said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@ChaosMarvel: Plus is Spider sense for the team to keep Surprise attacks from happening.

I wonder how Miles Spider sting KO attack work on someone like Kain here.

Based off his showing against spider-man it can ko him.

Miles fought 616 Spidey and ko him with the Sting?

wow I really need to pick that Arc up.

Yea but Peter was barely trying. He was trying to figure out where he was because it was the first time he was in the ultimate universe. He didn't even seem to really be fighting back, for example he knocked miles off a building IIRC and saved him and instead of webbing him off he just removed his mask quite easily. And than Miles surprised him by conducting his sting through Peters webbing which knocked him out. I think they both saved each others life in that fight at least once. I would have to double check but that is how I remember the fight off memory when I was shown the scans.

@BringnIt said:

Peter has greater durability showings than Kaine does and he's also tanked electricity numerous times. Mind rape doesn't show greater durability, either. That said, their durability is about the same and the stinger did not one-shot Peter, either.

Never meant to say it one shotted him but it did take him down.

@jashro44: Yeah thats pretty much how the fight went. Peter wasn't fighting he was just trying to figure out why a kid was dressed up in a suit similar to his.

@Strider92 said:

@Deranged Midget: Personally I don't think Kaine is more durable than Pete but just more tolerant to pain. We've seen Kaine a take a bullet without any sign of discomfort. Pete is good at dodging but I seem to remember him not being particularly great when he took a full on shot. I can see why people think Kaine is more durable but to me it seems like he just he doesn't care about the pain more than anything else. I'm guessing something like a gunshot wound or venom-strike pales in comparison to the pain of cellular degeneration.

Agreed. To me, it seems that Kaine's anger seems to overcome the pain and he just loses all sense of morality and let's loose. That might be enough to overwhelm Spider-Woman as she seems to be the weakest, but Miles has tanked hits from Rhino and danced with Peter effortlessly. Ult. Pete also has took on basically his most dangerous villains and took out Osborn while bleeding out. I think it's safe to say that Kaine isn't overwhelming either.

@Deranged Midget: Seems a fair assessment.

The only two things i'll throw in is that Miles didn't really dance with Peter. Pete wasn't even fighting really he just seemed interested as to why there was a kid dressed in a suit similar to his. If I recall he didn't even throw a punch at Miles and was just trying to web him up. The second thing is recently Kaine has taken to using his stingers a lot more in combat. Pete's and Mile's resistance to blunt trauma damage is good but I doubt the same could be said for a penetrative attack with potentially 20tons of strength behind it.

@Strider92 said:

@Deranged Midget: Seems a fair assessment.

The only two things i'll throw in is that Miles didn't really dance with Peter. Pete wasn't even fighting really he just seemed interested as to why there was a kid dressed in a suit similar to his. If I recall he didn't even throw a punch at Miles and was just trying to web him up. The second thing is recently Kaine has taken to using his stingers a lot more in combat. Pete's and Mile's resistance to blunt trauma damage is good but I doubt the same could be said for a penetrative attack with potentially 20tons of strength behind it.

Peter did attack Miles, not a first but he threw a kick and hit Miles in the face. Neither was really interested in fighting but it didn't really affect Miles either. I find that Miles tanking Rhino's hits seems to be the most impressive aspect and he's quickly adapted to utilizing the web-shooters, something that Kaine is undermined in.

@Deranged Midget said:

Agreed. To me, it seems that Kaine's anger seems to overcome the pain and he just loses all sense of morality and let's loose. That might be enough to overwhelm Spider-Woman as she seems to be the weakest, but Miles has tanked hits from Rhino and danced with Peter effortlessly. Ult. Pete also has took on basically his most dangerous villains and took out Osborn while bleeding out. I think it's safe to say that Kaine isn't overwhelming either.

Weel, I wouldn't say he tanked it per se... He kinda got smacked across a cityblock and landed in relatively soft water. Every Spidey got hit like that. Now should he stop Rhino on his tracks - that would be tanking IMO.

Honestly, I'd really like Kaine to be treated as a ten-tonner instead of twenty because he doesn't have strength feats that are even close to Peter's much less surpassing them. Honestly, Ultimate Peter has better strength feats than Kaine does since his change during Spider Island. Just because Peter was at that range when his Other powers manifested doesn't mean Kaine is at the same level, especially considering Kaine hasn't demonstrated all of Peter's powers during that story arc, and the origin of their powers are vastly different. Regardless, I still don't understand why Kaine is treated like he has no morals just because he is willing to cross lines Peter hasn't. As mentioned, he showed morals in his fight against Ana Kravinoff and on numerous occasion he has showed fairly strong moral character, albeit a lot of it due to his respect for Peter himself. He is also now afraid to die, as seen in his battle with Flash, and as I stated he evidenced no physical superiority to anything Peter has done during this battle and as a matter of fact probably did worse than Peter did in his own battle against Flash.

@Kyle_Dornez: That's a fair point, although Miles didn't appear to take any serious damage and jumped back into battle to save Cap.

@CadenceV2: To be fair Miles only won due to beginner's luck.

My vote goes to kaine.

Why?

Well for one he has a kot more experience at least more so than spider woman and miles. Second peters and spider womans spider sense would be useless since it doesnt work on clones. Sure miles might be a problem but due to his in experience and still being a kid i picture kaine would use some sort of scare tactic and quickly KO him taking out what could be a possible threat. Now i dont know much about ultimate peter or ultimate spider woman but from what ive been told ultimate peter is a more watered down version of 616 peter, and with out his spider sense im positive kaine could KO him. As for spider woman she doesnt rewlly seem nearly as impresive as 616 jessica drew so im just going to go with my gut and say kaine could beat her.

@darkslayer: Miles has a lot of combat experience actually. As much as Ultimate peter does after 2 years of hell. Also Kaines immunity to Spider Sense is only for 616 Peter not the 1610 versions so.....

As for the fight, Ultimate peter is 10 tonner, as is Spider Woman by association. Miles is confirm 10 toner as well by recent bio. So all these guys have the strength, and all have speed, coordination, spider sense, and webbing to win. Miles alone provide a sure victory with Venom Sting and Stealth combo while Peter and Jessica provide perfect distractions.

Ultimate team 10/10 just too much for Kaine period.

@sirfizwhiz: maybe so but im prety Sure kaine could still out class and over power him after all he did take on peter,ben and spidezide (sorry of i got it wrong). Did he win? No but it shows that he can definetly take on multiple opponents equal or above his own strength

Also im pretty sure kaines ability to bypass peters spider sense would still work since they are still the same person in a genetic level and that the reason he can bypass it in the first place.

As for kaines strength, his basically was as strong as peter when he was cured of his celular degeneration but with the other his strenght was enhanced meaning kaine would have the edge (if only slightly depending who you ask) in terms of raw strength.

And i highly doubt miles and his venom sting would instantly KO kaine since its been shown that he has a much larger pain threshold than peter. And also dont forget that kaine has his own stealth suit that he can utilize For combat on quick escapes.

Now im not saying it be an instante win for kaine. The ultimate spider people would definetly give him a run for his money but in the end id say the fight would be 6/10 on behalf of kaine

@darkslayer:

maybe so but im prety Sure kaine could still out class and over power him after all he did take on peter,ben and spidezide (sorry of i got it wrong)

No, that is right, but that was also Classic Kaine, his power levels changed for whatever reason as Scarlet Spider man, being Peter level at best, inferior actually to Peter alone now.

Also im pretty sure kaines ability to bypass peters spider sense would still work since they are still the same person in a genetic level and that the reason he can bypass it in the first place.

In Ultimate Universe the Spider Clones Spider Sense worked on eachother. Different rules and different powers. 616 Radioctive Spider, 1610 OZ Formula through a Spider.

As for kaines strength, his basically was as strong as peter when he was cured of his celular degeneration but with the other his strenght was enhanced meaning kaine would have the edge (if only slightly depending who you ask) in terms of raw strength.

Kaine is a documented 25 toner. At best. All the Ultimates being 10 toners.

And i highly doubt miles and his venom sting would instantly KO kaine since its been shown that he has a much larger pain threshold than peter. And also dont forget that kaine has his own stealth suit that he can utilize For combat on quick escapes.

Pain Threshold has nothing to do with your nervous system paralyzed.

Now im not saying it be an instante win for kaine. The ultimate spider people would definetly give him a run for his money but in the end id say the fight would be 6/10 on behalf of kaine

No way Kaine can win. Maybe against 2 of any combo of the Ult. Spiders, but all three? not a chance in hell. He is likely to get Web Incap by them, beaten down, or Venom Sting.

Kaine fell into a batch of anti-venom cure which resulted in his powers changing. As for being inferior to Peter it depends. He is faster and stronger than Peter all though he does lack Peters spider-sense and is a different character.

Why would you say he is stronger? What feats as Scarlet Spider is over Peters high ends?

Kaine should win. He's physically superior to all of them and has no qualms with killing. Peter is the best out of that group and he doesn't compare to his 616 counterpart who Kaine has beat in the physical department.

Willing to kill means little when he is fighting teen kids who are not trying to kill him. His morals are not that skewed at all. Like saying "Punisher would kill them" lol.

Also being stronger than the Ultimate Spiders mean little with the numbers and web incap they have. Or the Venom Sting factor. Or the fact they could beat him down with the 30 tons of blows adding up.

They're is no reason Kaine should beat all three at all other than lack of thought on the strength of the team. Hell, Wolverine nearly beat Kaine in their fight before he went plot device of Other on him, you think Wolverine beats three ultimate Spiders??? Hells no. Why should Kaine?

It was stated on panel by both Kaine and SpOck and is backed by Kaine rag dolling Otto:

Also I doubt webbing would work on Kaine.

@jashro44: What kind of speed feats does Kaine have to be faster than Pete?

Nothing really but he was stated to be faster than Peter. It seems the implication is that Kaine is physically better than Peter but lacks spider-sense.

Ah, ok. Thanks Jash.

@heatblaze123: No problem.

@jashro44: the webbing from Spidey team has shown to catch a falling dump truck fine without trenching really. If all three go to web him up it should work fine. It's of 20+ ton strength. Spamming it like a thick blanket should work fine and it's a go to move Peter and Jessica.

Maybe. But that argument works both ways. Kaines webbing is the same webbing peter had when he had the other, meaning its the same webbing used to restrain iron man....So the argument works both ways honestly.

@jashro44: Its not in character for Kaine. It is for Jessica and Peter. miles also does not Web Spam to end fights quickly, though he can. Also 3 Spiders Web spamming from different direction > than Kaine by himself. IMO.

Also Venom Sting!